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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Point Break

Gun Recommendation

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So.........I'm going to be traveling a bit in a month or two and RV camping in some remote places along the Cali Coast and maybe Oregon as well. It will just be myself and the dog. I'm considering acquiring a handgun for self protection. Wondering what our resident gun afficinados might recommend.  A few parameters below:

1) I won't be target shooting for pleasure/sport so that isn't a factor in choice.

2) The range would be quite close because avoidance is my primary strategy. I doubt if I would use it any farther than 5-10 feet away. 

3) My primary concern isn't critters, its opportunistic bad guys. The scenario I am planning for is a break in and confrontation inside the RV at night while sleeping. I think I can avoid most any other situation. Hopefully the dog would be enough of a deterrent/warning that the use would not ever be necessary. I do not plan to carry it around.

4) I won't be using it or having it available at home. I'm happy with my current situation and plans should the very unlikely intrusion happen there. My plan is to keep it very locked away safely when home.

I've used both handguns and a variety of semi and auto weapons in the military (45+ years ago) and am not at all uncomfortable with handling and firing one. I can handle a reasonably large caliber weapon. I was very good at the range with the old classic military 1911. I'm very fastidious about my "stuff" so cleaning and care won't be a problem. I don't know anything about the current handgun choices. 

Recommendations?

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My carry is a 38 revolver. I also have two speed loaders for it. Small, compact and fits in a big pocket. It's my 5-10' gun of choice (unless I am in Bear Country and then its the Ruger Alaskan in 454). I have several types and calibers to choose from and prefer the 38. 

I like a revolver over a semi due to reliability. Very hard to jam a wheel gun. 

I am like you in the avoidance is my first choice. I would have to have made a lot of mistakes to get into a situation where I need it.

If you get to Oregon, it's not that much further to paradise. First round is on me!

 

WL

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I might get that far. I don't really have a firm itinerary, just going to "wander". I'll take you up on that drink if I get that far. 

What brands/model would you recommend? I'm not overly worried about cost so trying to cheap isn't a factor....

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Considering the amount of time that has passed sense you have shot anything go for simplicity.

First off get a big can of pepper spray. A tactical flashlight with a strobe can disorient a bad guy too.

For the firearm question I'd suggest a .357 magnum revolver with a laser sight. Smith&Wesson are still pretty good. Start off with .38 special loads, you don't want to develop a flinch.

There are numerous semi-auto pistols without a conventional safety that are simple to operate as well. 9mm is fine. You'd want to handle different models as some may not naturally point for you. As always, avoid off brands and cheapies.

FWIW 1911s are more popular than ever.

 

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What is a "flinch"? Anticipatory jerk when pulling the trigger? 

I do have Bear spray and have carried that hiking for years. I'll have that with me however I wonder about disabling my canine defender in close quarters. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Point Break said:

I might get that far. I don't really have a firm itinerary, just going to "wander". I'll take you up on that drink if I get that far. 

What brands/model would you recommend? I'm not overly worried about cost so trying to cheap isn't a factor....

I am a big fan of Ruger. Model is variable as the fit and balance vary. Google says there are at lest two ranges within a few hours of you that you can go put some rounds through different models. LAX Firing Range would probably be a good start. Even if its in Ingelwood. :)

http://www.laxrange.com/range-price-list/

 

WL

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5 minutes ago, White Lightnin' said:

I am a big fan of Ruger. Model is variable as the fit and balance vary. Google says there are at lest two ranges within a few hours of you that you can go put some rounds through different models. LAX Firing Range would probably be a good start. Even if its in Ingelwood. :)

http://www.laxrange.com/range-price-list/

 

WL

Yeah, I'll certainly need to put a few rounds through it first.........it's not high on my list of stuff to do but it would be stupid not to......

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Ok that is 10 posts now and no word from Tom. Can someone in Florida get around to his place and make sure he is ok?

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Don't forget to practice your menacing voice PB - 'Are you feeling lucky punk?'

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2 hours ago, White Lightnin' said:

If you get to Oregon, it's not that much further to paradise. First round is on me!

WL

Ah geez here. We. Go.

He's going to come up and visit White Lightning in Anacortes and have a great time, then the decision will be made to make a side trip to the San Juans, fall in love with the place and just like every other Californian that visits, that'll be all she wrote.

He'll head home, sell the house, grab Momma, move to the islands and become a farmer of some sorts.

Then the gray skies of Winter will set in.

:ph34r:

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44 minutes ago, By the lee said:

Leave America! Jesus! What a way to have to live......:blink:

"Goin' out, gotta' grab ma' gun y'all!"

^ This

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Hey PB, once you aquire the piece don't forget to workout with it...

 

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1 hour ago, By the lee said:

Leave America! Jesus! What a way to have to live......:blink:

"Goin' out, gotta' grab ma' gun y'all!"

 

32 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

^ This

2nd that... once flying in from Japan my uncle picked me up from LAX , we got outside the airport into Lakewood? and he pulled out a handgun and put it on the seat and kept his hand on it.. I asked why and he said because of red light car jacking.. I thought shit just take me back to the airport ...however that being said I can understand why one would want one for protection. I live in a country where guns are not legal and the bad guys do have guns although most robberies are done with machetes. would I feel safer if I could have a gun...yes  

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5 hours ago, Point Break said:

So.........I'm going to be traveling a bit in a month or two and RV camping in some remote places along the Cali Coast and maybe Oregon as well. It will just be myself and the dog. I'm considering acquiring a handgun for self protection. Wondering what our resident gun afficinados might recommend.  A few parameters below:

1) I won't be target shooting for pleasure/sport so that isn't a factor in choice.

2) The range would be quite close because avoidance is my primary strategy. I doubt if I would use it any farther than 5-10 feet away. 

3) My primary concern isn't critters, its opportunistic bad guys. The scenario I am planning for is a break in and confrontation inside the RV at night while sleeping. I think I can avoid most any other situation. Hopefully the dog would be enough of a deterrent/warning that the use would not ever be necessary. I do not plan to carry it around.

4) I won't be using it or having it available at home. I'm happy with my current situation and plans should the very unlikely intrusion happen there. My plan is to keep it very locked away safely when home.

I've used both handguns and a variety of semi and auto weapons in the military (45+ years ago) and am not at all uncomfortable with handling and firing one. I can handle a reasonably large caliber weapon. I was very good at the range with the old classic military 1911. I'm very fastidious about my "stuff" so cleaning and care won't be a problem. I don't know anything about the current handgun choices. 

Recommendations?

First recommendation would be to ask on a gun forum.

Second would be to make sure it's locked away safely IN THE RV as well as the home. Not just a good idea, it's the law in your state. Unless you're one of those people who is $pecial to a Sheriff and can get a concealed weapons permit.

Third would be a quick access safe, since you might need the gun quickly in the scenario you envision but it still won't be legal to have it handy and unlocked.

Fourth would be practice. Your hands should know how to draw and fire from muscle memory. If you ever had it, it's faded.

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First check the gun laws for the States that you plan to travel through. What is legal in one might not be in the next one. A revolver is more likely to be legal and long term storage loaded is not a problem. Double action is best and no worry about a jam. Be safe and prepared.

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Ruger sp101 5 shot stainless hammerless snub nose revolver. Never catches on the way out and you can't go on a killing spree with a 5 round revolver

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It also has about 11lbs of pull on the trigger so your not going to flinch fire unless your really beefy. I keep a .38 first then a .38 +p 2nd then 3 .357s if I haven't gotten out of trouble with 2 less deadly rounds.

If you're thinking of only discharging in the vehicle, get some magna stoppers or whatever they sell now that doesn't penetrate walls and will cause a 100percent sucking chest wound. These rounds are hollow point, serrated, shot filled and dissipate all the energy created in a horrific and compact manner without going through walls of the target and causing injury to others.

As much as l like the idea of pulling big firepower at the appropriate time, I've found that the size of the gun doesn't matter, you just have to be willing to kill someone when you produce it and if you flinch, you will be fucked hard. On the ground bleeding out fucked. I've been there and it's never fun. I've even had to put the gun away once when the guy didn't care if I shot him so o pulled the knife out. He respected that...Had to intervene way too many times to worry about the look of the gun

 

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

^ This

This is why this site is dying. Why all the old guard have moved on. It used to be that when a question was asked, there was a reasonable discourse on the topic. Now it turns into a mud slinging, I'm better than you, shit show.

If you don't have anything productive to ad to a conversation. STFU.

If you want to turn it into a political discussion take it to the cess pool called PA.

Fukwits

 

WL

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2 minutes ago, White Lightnin' said:

This is why this site is dying. Why all the old guard have moved on. It used to be that when a question was asked, there was a reasonable discourse on the topic. Now it turns into a mud slinging, I'm better than you, shit show.

If you don't have anything productive to ad to a conversation. STFU.

If you want to turn it into a political discussion take it to the cess pool called PA.

Fukwits

 

WL

^^^^^^This.

 

It was a perfectly reasonable request for information/advice.  

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Just now, mad said:

^^^^^^This.

 

It was a perfectly reasonable request for information/advice.  

Actually we just all got tired of all of you from the Sailing forum invading our pleasant little universe and making it your safe space.

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In my somewhat poor defense (and let the records show that Hobot firmly believes in gun ownership) I did wait until posting number 10 before adding to the thread drift.

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I was going to ask which one works best for shooting while holding it sideways............but I thought better of it. :rolleyes:

It was a pretty sure thing that some of those responses would happen but I thought there'd be a few thoughtful experienced replies as well...and there were. The rest is noise.

Whatever..........

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1 hour ago, White Lightnin' said:

This is why this site is dying. Why all the old guard have moved on. It used to be that when a question was asked, there was a reasonable discourse on the topic. Now it turns into a mud slinging, I'm better than you, shit show.

If you don't have anything productive to ad to a conversation. STFU.

If you want to turn it into a political discussion take it to the cess pool called PA.

Fukwits

 

WL

The intolerant haters turned up right on schedule.

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I'd get a .22LR with a 2 1/2" barrel. Small, and for close quarters more than enough to stop anyone who isn't amped up on angel dust.

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I second the small .38 revolver recommendation. Or, if you want a semiauto, get a Glock 19 (9mm), which is practically maintenance-free as semiautos go.

IMHO, the only reason to get a .22 would be if you plan to make this a hobby and spend a lot of time at the range, in which case a .22 would be much cheaper to shoot. 

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For your needs, it would be hard to beat a 38 revolver. There are lots of good ones, but the ringer LCR is one you might want to take a look at. Reliable, lightweight, inexpensive, good trigger, and accurate or at least as accurate as a small revolver gets. As for the .22, nobody wants to get shot with one, but it would not be my choice for self defense. It will not have nearly the power or penetration, think bulky clothing, as a 38 and the recoil from a 38 is really not bad.

 

 

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Serious question - has anyone on this thread ever fired a gun at another person in self defense?

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Thanks. I won't need to be able to pull it from a pocket since I can't imagine a need to carry it. It will live locked up in the lockbox unloaded most of the time. It will be within reach loaded at night in any very remote settings I might overnight in and get unloaded and locked up in the mornings. It will stay locked up in most beach campgrounds since the combination of my dog and others nearby will make a need very unlikely. I do know a couple spots I'm planning on staying that are much more remote and likely no cell coverage. Those situations are the only ones I'd have it ready. 

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Ya'll can turn this into any number of threads more suited for PA......should I, are guns good or bad, how would I feel if I had to shoot someone, blah blah. Those are all considerations in my wake. I'm seeking information from persons I judge experienced in different guns for different purposes since I am not. I still may or may not acquire one, but none of the predictable anti or pro gun views will factor into my personal decision. It's not my first day.

So ya'll could leave this thread for the purpose I intended which is to gain a little information and instead express your pro or anti gun or US predjudices over in the cesspool or certainly stay here and shit your personal turds to be scrolled past.

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20 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Serious question - has anyone on this thread ever fired a gun at another person in self defense?

Silly question, I have never needed to use my fire extinguisher, but I still keep one on each floor and two in the kitchen. I still put on my seatbelt, even though I have never needed it. There are lots of things we buy with the hope and expectation that they will.never be needed.

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3 minutes ago, LenP said:

Silly question, I have never needed to use my fire extinguisher, but I still keep one on each floor and two in the kitchen. I still put on my seatbelt, even though I have never needed it. There are lots of things we buy with the hope and expectation that they will.never be needed.

If I was seeking advice about what fire extinguisher to buy I wouldn't seek your advice then. I'd ask someone who had actually put out a fire.

Like I have.

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32 minutes ago, LenP said:

For your needs, it would be hard to beat a 38 revolver. There are lots of good ones, but the ringer LCR is one you might want to take a look at. Reliable, lightweight, inexpensive, good trigger, and accurate or at least as accurate as a small revolver gets. As for the .22, nobody wants to get shot with one, but it would not be my choice for self defense. It will not have nearly the power or penetration, think bulky clothing, as a 38 and the recoil from a 38 is really not bad.

 

 

Thanks, I was thinking that as well. I've seen and taken care of folks shot with a .22 and they were still very......."active" if not hit in a real bad spot. I don't think I want to have to be that good of a shot. 

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

If I was seeking advice about what fire extinguisher to buy I wouldn't seek your advice then. I'd ask someone who had actually put out a fire.

Like I have.

What kind of fire extinguisher do you recommend based upon your experience?

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Your choice is limited to those currently certified by the State of California.

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

 Don't forget to check the de-certified list.  If it ever gets de-certified, it will be against the law to sell it.

Choose something that fits your hand with a natural point of aim for your body.  I happen to like the Glock-brand Glocks, but some don't like the fit or grip angle.  You'd also be limited to a Gen3 or earlier in CA.  

If you've never fired a weapon inside a house or trailer, you might want to invest in some active hearing protection to avoid permanent damage.  You'll want something for the range, anyway.  Howard Leight (Honeywell) makes good stuff.

 

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46 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

What kind of fire extinguisher do you recommend based upon your experience?

Depends on the kind of fire you want to put out.

Best people to ask are professional firefighters - they were the ones who trained us.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Serious question - has anyone on this thread ever fired a gun at another person in self defense?

Yup.

If we're talking inside the trailer, a knife will be a good choice if you don't have time to reach under that pillow for the  Ruger. I've been shot at several times and not hit. Two guys tried to stab me and neither missed. I learned to grab a fire extinguisher as soon as I see trouble brewing. 

If I were in a trailer I'd have a dry chemical extinguisher strapped to the door with a spring trap on the handle so as soon as the ahole gets the door slightly open the discharge will immediately create a dust storm of uninhaleable air and be a distraction that will but you the one second you need to survive. If you don't do that, at least keep one with the pin pulled near your bedroom door. Dive for it and discharge it as soon as the door is getting fucked with, they'll have to breathe it in to get to you and you can dump a few round downrange at will.

Have a nice trip enjoy your self 

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2 hours ago, Point Break said:

...different guns for different purposes since I am not.

Can't go too far wrong with a Glock or a *quality* DA/SA auto.  Pretty much as foolproof as a revolver, generally less bulk, no complex fine-motor-skill mechanisms to worry about.  The "advantage" of an auto over a revolver, in self-defense scenarios, is that you are still "hot" if you need to reload, where with a revolver you are visibly and actually out of business when the cylinder is swung out.

Get it in a "real" caliber (I prefer .40, good combination of capacity and ballistics)

ObNote, find out the laws in the states you'll be traveling through and to.  Oregon, for example, does not honor concealed carry permits from other states, has some specific laws about firearms in state parks, etc. 

Good info (including open-carry and carry in an RV) here:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oregon.pdf
and here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Oregon

JMHO

 

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48 minutes ago, Chum said:

So, if you were looking for firearms instruction you would discount anyone who hasn't shot someone in self defense?

I would give a lot more credence to someone who had used a gun to defend themselves - as opposed to someone who was just a gun enthusiast.

It's called credibility.

Would you prefer to be taught how to drive a race car by a race car driver or someone who was simply interested in racing?

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13 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

used a gun to defend themselves

Please define this phrase.

The vast - overwhelmingly vast - majority of times a gun is used in lawful self-defense, no shots are fired.

In that context, I have "used a gun to defend myself" - but I have never fired a shot at anything other than cardboard or steel. I truly hope that never changes.

 

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15 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I would give a lot more credence to someone who had used a gun to defend themselves - as opposed to someone who was just a gun enthusiast.

It's called credibility.

Would you prefer to be taught how to drive a race car by a race car driver or someone who was simply interested in racing?

Ya know. You were asked nicely to take this shit back to your cesspool. As much as I hate putting people on ignore. Away with you. You are a real fukwit!!

 

WL

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2 minutes ago, White Lightnin' said:

Ya know. You were asked nicely to take this shit back to your cesspool. As much as I hate putting people on ignore. Away with you. You are a real fukwit!!

 

WL

Right back atcha.

 

Oh yeah - and fuck off too.

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16 hours ago, Point Break said:

So.........I'm going to be traveling a bit in a month or two and RV camping in some remote places along the Cali Coast and maybe Oregon as well. It will just be myself and the dog. I'm considering acquiring a handgun for self protection. Wondering what our resident gun afficinados might recommend.  A few parameters below:

1) I won't be target shooting for pleasure/sport so that isn't a factor in choice.

2) The range would be quite close because avoidance is my primary strategy. I doubt if I would use it any farther than 5-10 feet away. 

3) My primary concern isn't critters, its opportunistic bad guys. The scenario I am planning for is a break in and confrontation inside the RV at night while sleeping. I think I can avoid most any other situation. Hopefully the dog would be enough of a deterrent/warning that the use would not ever be necessary. I do not plan to carry it around.

4) I won't be using it or having it available at home. I'm happy with my current situation and plans should the very unlikely intrusion happen there. My plan is to keep it very locked away safely when home.

I've used both handguns and a variety of semi and auto weapons in the military (45+ years ago) and am not at all uncomfortable with handling and firing one. I can handle a reasonably large caliber weapon. I was very good at the range with the old classic military 1911. I'm very fastidious about my "stuff" so cleaning and care won't be a problem. I don't know anything about the current handgun choices. 

Recommendations?

Defending the mobile home? Shotgun will do splendidly. Nothing packs more stopping power, period. First load can be rock-salt to hopefully mitigate a mistake and/or educate a drunken punk who has convinced himself you haven't got the guts to fire.  

   

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7 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Defending the mobile home? Shotgun will do splendidly. Nothing packs more stopping power, period. First load can be rock-salt to hopefully mitigate a mistake and/or educate a drunken punk who has convinced himself you haven't got the guts to fire.  

   

Sawed off, for ease of maneuverability...  Like mark said, first load of rock salt, but second one needs to be steel or bismuth, in case it's a meth-fueled, 300 pound, crackhead Gangsta.....

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I neglected to mention a shotgun dodges a significant portion of the legal BS which comes with handguns. There are two biggies in this area, the Mossberg 500 series and the Winchester 870 series..which they call SX or something like that today.

 Choosing between those two I'd just toss a coin, myself.  

 

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

Defending the mobile home? Shotgun will do splendidly. Nothing packs more stopping power, period. First load can be rock-salt to hopefully mitigate a mistake and/or educate a drunken punk who has convinced himself you haven't got the guts to fire.  

   

I have considered that and have not ruled it out. Any advantages/disadvantages anyone can see one over the other besides maneuverability? Legal locking storage would have to be bigger......

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18 minutes ago, Point Break said:

I have considered that and have not ruled it out. Any advantages/disadvantages anyone can see one over the other besides maneuverability? Legal locking storage would have to be bigger......

But your plan would no longer be illegal without a CWP, so there's that.

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1 hour ago, Point Break said:

I have considered that and have not ruled it out. Any advantages/disadvantages anyone can see one over the other besides maneuverability? Legal locking storage would have to be bigger......

  Takes up more space but locking does not require full concealment in a safe. Google "shotgun lock" to see the options, cheapest probably being the same lock many police depts use for their front-seat shotgun. They sometimes have to leave the unit unlocked and unattended for a bit, after all, and were worried some knucklehead would reach in and snatch the thing. 

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2 hours ago, sledracr said:

Please define this phrase.

The vast - overwhelmingly vast - majority of times a gun is used in lawful self-defense, no shots are fired.

In that context, I have "used a gun to defend myself" - but I have never fired a shot at anything other than cardboard or steel. I truly hope that never changes.

 

The vast-overwhelmingly vast- majority of anti gunners don't care. They just do not want anyone to have them.

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

But your plan would no longer be illegal without a CWP, so there's that.

? First I would not do this if it broke any laws. Second, by my limited research, if I have the handgun unloaded and locked in a locked box in the rear of the RV where it is out of reach of the front seat, it does not require a CWP in California. Once parked the rules are the same as if camping or even in my home. Do you have a different view?

 

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Looking at the shotguns, there are several with pistol grips. Although I get that in close quarters firing from the hip is probably gonna get it done, I still would prefer to shoulder fire if it came to that. My dog would most certainly already be engaged and I would not want to hit my dog. I have never fired a pistol grip shotgun but it seems........uncomfortable. Any views on that?

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Serious question - has anyone on this thread ever fired a gun at another person in self defense?

I've made it clear I was armed and have pointed a gun at someone to make them abundantly clear that I didn't want them on my property.  They decided that going away was a better idea. 

Once from unwanted visitors whilst tied in port and the other following repeated night time break ins and threats to my loved ones. 

Thankfully neither time did I have to fire, but I have no qualms when protecting my own. 

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3 hours ago, Mark K said:

Defending the mobile home? Shotgun will do splendidly. Nothing packs more stopping power, period. First load can be rock-salt to hopefully mitigate a mistake and/or educate a drunken punk who has convinced himself you haven't got the guts to fire.  

   

This was going to be my suggestion, especially as you are allowed to have pistol grip shotties with shorter barrels than we are in the UK. 

I've heard Mossbergs be repeatedly recommended over the years in life and not just here, you can also mix and match the stock etc and use for a multi purpose gun as well in some versions.

 

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3 hours ago, Mark K said:

Defending the mobile home? Shotgun will do splendidly. Nothing packs more stopping power, period. First load can be rock-salt to hopefully mitigate a mistake and/or educate a drunken punk who has convinced himself you haven't got the guts to fire.  

   

I've always heard about rock salt,  exactly how lethal, non-lethal, effective is it? And from what range from a 12g shottie? 

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Sawed off, for ease of maneuverability...  Like mark said, first load of rock salt, but second one needs to be steel or bismuth, in case it's a meth-fueled, 300 pound, crackhead Gangsta.....

What's wrong with lead? 

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

What's wrong with lead? 

It's prohibited, in most places due top Federal Environmental laws.  My Belgian Browning Auto is not suppose to use steel shot, only lead or bismuth, but lead is not permitted.....

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Trouble between a 12 Ga. shotgun, and a snub nosed .22LR revolver......

 The hole you leave in your RV will be significantly smaller with a .22LR than a 12Ga......

Just sayin'.............

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Not if you hit your target.

And if he's in a situation where deadly force is called for I don't think a few holes in the side of the RV is the biggest issue.

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33 minutes ago, Dorado said:

Billy, that's a hunting regulation. Not applicable in a self defense ammunition. 

Okay, but it's still not advisable to shoot steel through a Belgian Browning barrel, it is too hard, and can ruin the barrel....

 

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7 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Trouble between a 12 Ga. shotgun, and a snub nosed .22LR revolver......

 The hole you leave in your RV will be significantly smaller with a .22LR than a 12Ga......

Just sayin'.............

If it's salt of light load, might not penetrate the RV, after passing through the perpetrator....

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1 minute ago, billy backstay said:

If it's salt of light load, might not penetrate the RV, after passing through the perpetrator....

Yeah..... But the corrosion issue......

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35 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

don't have to worry about aim...   the slide action noise will scare most people off

 

80215.jpg

Not necessarily this weapon, but I agree with the thought.

I can hit the broad side of a barn with a 12 gauge....

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34 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

don't have to worry about aim...   the slide action noise will scare most people off

 

80215.jpg

That is also my experience

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1 hour ago, Point Break said:

Looking at the shotguns, there are several with pistol grips. Although I get that in close quarters firing from the hip is probably gonna get it done, I still would prefer to shoulder fire if it came to that. My dog would most certainly already be engaged and I would not want to hit my dog. I have never fired a pistol grip shotgun but it seems........uncomfortable. Any views on that?

Pistol grip is more comfortable and preferred by hobbiests who imagine themselves spending a whole day aiming the thing, but it's not a BFD for normal people. The pistol grips screw a bit of utility when using the weapon as a club (important in CQ, bigly IMO) and the ability to effectively wield a bayonet, so there's a trade-off. On the plus side is the regs are for barrel length, there be laws against sawed off shotguns, and a pistol grip at the back shortens the overall length significantly. Shaves a bit of weight too, I suppose. If I were planning to strap it to a pack and go for a hike...hell yes. 

 

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2 hours ago, Point Break said:

? First I would not do this if it broke any laws. Second, by my limited research, if I have the handgun unloaded and locked in a locked box in the rear of the RV where it is out of reach of the front seat, it does not require a CWP in California. Once parked the rules are the same as if camping or even in my home. Do you have a different view?

 

Yes. The legality of your plan depends a great deal on where you are. Cali State Parks? If you plan to use them, your plan would be illegal without a CWP.

As I mentioned, there are real gun nutz in the world who know a great deal more about this than I do. You can find them here, for example:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1124271

(The topic post is relevant to your question. Those people know Cali law.)

To your other question, yes, I have fired a pistol-grip twelve gauge once. I handed it back to the owner with the rest of the rounds still in it and nursed my bruised hand. Not fun. Like being hit in the hand with a hammer.

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I am not a fan of pistol grips on a shotgun. Too much accuracy lost. Although the one pictured above would leave a really nice divot in a forehead when you poked them with it. ;)

 

+1 on the universal sound. Its why its my choice for a residential security option.

 

WL

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Yes. The legality of your plan depends a great deal on where you are. Cali State Parks? If you plan to use them, your plan would be illegal without a CWP.

As I mentioned, there are real gun nutz in the world who know a great deal more about this than I do. You can find them here, for example:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1124271

(The topic post is relevant to your question. Those people know Cali law.)

To your other question, yes, I have fired a pistol-grip twelve gauge once. I handed it back to the owner with the rest of the rounds still in it and nursed my bruised hand. Not fun. Like being hit in the hand with a hammer.

By my read that is dealing with whether one can concealed carry. I do not propose to concealed carry. These websites are examples of the summary as it pertains to transport in a vehicle without a CCW. I can't find any information contrary to the information below. 

  1. Under California law a concealed handgun can legally be transported with a motor vehicle without a permit only by carrying it: 
    • Unloaded
    • Locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a separate locked container other than the utility or glove compartment
    • If the vehicle does not have a trunk, it must be carried in a "locked container" separate from the utility or glove compartment.

http://www.deansafe.com/transporting-guns-in-california.html

HANDGUNS

California Penal Code section 25400 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 25610. 

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry-1.pdf

 

The single point of firearms in state parks is still unclear t me. It s clear I can have/transport it in the vehicle if locked in a non-ready for use status".......however I do not think I can remove it from that locked condition even when parked when in Cali state parks. I do have to chase that one down a little better but I think thats the case. National Parks in Cali....no problem.

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23 minutes ago, Point Break said:

The single point of firearms in state parks is still unclear t me. It s clear I can have/transport it in the vehicle if locked in a non-ready for use status".......however I do not think I can remove it from that locked condition even when parked when in Cali state parks. I do have to chase that one down a little better but I think thats the case. National Parks in Cali....no problem.

 

That State Park rule seems pretty clear to me. I interpret "within temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance" to mean "when camping" as you're proposing to do. It sounds like you must keep it unloaded and locked/stored in a way that will "prevent ready use." So my plan of using a quick access safe would be illegal unless the gun inside was unloaded. As noted on the other forum, there are other kinds of parks and jurisdictions with other rules, then there's Oregon with its own rules.

(c) Firearms not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism, other unloaded weapons or devices such as traps, nets, and bows and arrows may be possessed within temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use.

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

It's prohibited, in most places due top Federal Environmental laws.  My Belgian Browning Auto is not suppose to use steel shot, only lead or bismuth, but lead is not permitted.....

It's prohibited for migratory waterfowl. I.e. Ducks and geese,  most other uses lead is still legal in most areas. 

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First of all, all the people suggesting salt. Unless you are reloading your own shells you aren't going to find salt loads. 

Secondly there are lots of new loads for shotguns that are designed for self defense. For sure look into those

Third, if you like the idea of a shotgun and a revolver. Look into the Judge by Taurus. It's a revolver that takes Colt 45 rounds but also .410 shotgun shells. It's a gun designed for self defense. 

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You can get a folding stock with pistol grip for either the Mossberg or the 870, I like and have an 870 with an 18" riot barrel, maybe a flashlight mounted on the foregrip. They aren't very accurate with the stock folded, but it would work better in a close environment. The SoCal chapter of the SA gun nut club has kind of died out, only Silent Bob and I are still in state as far as I know, but maybe we could set up another bangfest, I have some new toys  to try out now that racing season is almost over.

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14 hours ago, White Lightnin' said:

Fukwits

That is Mr Fukwit to you punk.

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Just now, White Lightnin' said:

A 1000 pardons, Mr. Fuckwit! ;)

WL

That's better. 

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9 hours ago, Mark K said:

I neglected to mention a shotgun dodges a significant portion of the legal BS which comes with handguns. There are two biggies in this area, the Mossberg 500 series and the Winchester 870 series..which they call SX or something like that today.

 Choosing between those two I'd just toss a coin, myself.  

Get outta' town! Didn't you even bother to read the op? Do you wanna' see the poor fucker get hurt or sumpin'? He said camping in remote Northern Cali. and maybe even Oregon ffs. Oregon! Oh the horrors! Desperados-are-us much?!

What he needs is the very very latest in blow-your-ass-to-kingdom-come tech.

Rock and roll! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I hope for the op's sake he a little less geriatric than demonstrator. He's so slow I could jump in and kill him between shots! :P

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2 hours ago, Timo42 said:

You can get a folding stock with pistol grip for either the Mossberg or the 870, I like and have an 870 with an 18" riot barrel, maybe a flashlight mounted on the foregrip. They aren't very accurate with the stock folded, but it would work better in a close environment. The SoCal chapter of the SA gun nut club has kind of died out, only Silent Bob and I are still in state as far as I know, but maybe we could set up another bangfest, I have some new toys  to try out now that racing season is almost over.

Let's get em dirty, so we can clean them!

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6 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Tom, 

Does the above equation change if you have a carry permit?  Life is much simpler in my state with a CPL.  

Apparently so, according to what I saw on calguns. As I mentioned earlier, if you're one of those people who is $pecial to a Sheriff and can get a concealed weapons permit, it would make things easier.

The real process:

http://legalbeagle.com/5136430-concealed-weapons-permit-los-angeles.html

PB has no chance at the "show good cause" part, so unless he's $pecial to a Sheriff, no chance of getting a permit. The rest of that discussion belongs