Larry32832

How wrong am I to use this sail?

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Following up on a post I made previously I've gotten a couple used sails and would like opinions on this sail.  I can fairly easily return it and wait for another suitable used one to pop up but a new sail is probably not a good option for me at this point.

I live in the San Francisco area and my working jib often seems overpowered due to the sometimes (or often) very high winds.  The purpose of the jib is use in heavy winds, now some pros and cons:

Pros:

  1. It's in great condition, nearly like new.
  2. 8oz Dacron
  3. Has a reef
  4. Great visibility

Cons:

  1. Performance characteristics of this ridiculously high clew?
  2. Not being able to point into the wind very high
  3. The sheet does seem to be able to make an appropriate angle but it's on my far back car close to the winch, not much extra room there.
  4. Sure looks weird

I'm just sailing around for fun right now and it would be nice to be able to go out even when the winds are in the 20-30 knot range.  The winds locally around my marina are even higher than the average of the bay so going out for an evening 1 hour cruise this is not unusual.

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Did you look at the Used Sails section of my website?  You might find something better there unless of course that is where you found this.  The site will tell you how high the cluw will be.

 

Allen 

L-36.com

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Jib top reacher.....sort of.  If you got a big tub at home. throw that in there with water and a few scoops of Oxyclean. let it sit for a day or more.  will come out white as new. 

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25 minutes ago, allene222 said:

Did you look at the Used Sails section of my website?  You might find something better there unless of course that is where you found this.  The site will tell you how high the cluw will be.

 

Allen 

L-36.com

Yes I did use your site!  It was very helpful and I did know that it was going to be a high clew from those calculations however I have limited sailing experience and am looking to get advice from someone who's "been there done that" with different style sails.

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25 minutes ago, HypnoToad said:

Jib top reacher.....sort of.  If you got a big tub at home. throw that in there with water and a few scoops of Oxyclean. let it sit for a day or more.  will come out white as new. 

Awesome thanks for the tip.

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8 minutes ago, the other mongo said:

As someone said, that's a jib top reacher, used for reaching. Should be sheeted pretty far aft, like to a snatch block attached near the transom or at least amid ship.

 

Makes sense that I had to sheet it at nearly the end of the sheet car track then.

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High-clew sails traditionally DO sheet well-aft - and they don't need their lead moved much between uphill and reaching.  IN a big breeze it will be fine.  When it lightens up, you will realize it doesn't point well.

Never cut/modify a used sail.  It just doesn't pay.  Use it as-is,  reef it and see how that goes but pay $ 0 for changing a used sail.

 

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Just now, Great Red Shark said:

High-clew sails traditionally DO sheet well-aft - and they don't need their lead moved much between uphill and reaching.  IN a big breeze it will be fine.  When it lightens up, you will realize it doesn't point well.

Never cut/modify a used sail.  It just doesn't pay.  Use it as-is,  reef it and see how that goes but pay $ 0 for changing a used sail.

 

Yeh I have a jib/genoa that is 130% and reefs down to 100% so this would be only for heavy winds.

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It'll reach well. Rather inefficient upwind, but it'll work. Longy's suggestion is a good one. It won't cost much, probably under $100. 

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You can try the shorter luff option without doing any work to sail - just roll up excess luff, shackle/lash to reef tack, re-adjust lead & go sailing.

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 I would call it a yankee. Is there a difference between a yankee and a blast reacher. 

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People are saying it won't point well, but I they may be wrong.  Your jib track is on your rail, so when your fairlead is in the typical position the sheeting angle (in the horizontal plane) is pretty wide.  But when your fairlead is well aft, your sheeting angle is a lot narrower.  That's good for pointing.  Looks like you might even be able to bring your sheets inside your shrouds.  So it's possible that this sail could point better than your working jib.

Also, that sail may have a long life since the leech doesn't get stressed.

Go try it!  Please report back!

 

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great sail for high winds and big seas over the bow - and you can reef it even further.

 

For cruising and tooling around in 20+, I'd call it a great sail if the price was right.

Scrub using some detergent and vinegar on those stains, dilute oxalic acid if its rust.

 

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The sail is fine, actually perfect for what you want to do with it. Who cares if it doesn't point like a 3Di blade? You're not racing, foot off 10 degrees. 

Since you sail in the Bay you should be prepared to reef the main when you go out. If necessary you can get an extra-deep reef added to your existing mainsail for not too much $$$. When it gets breezy reef down or crank in whatever controls you have on your main (halyard, cunningham, outhaul, backstay etc.). Be prepared to dump the traveler in gusts. Don't overthink it, you'll be fine, go have fun. 

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3 hours ago, TQA said:

 I would call it a yankee. Is there a difference between a yankee and a blast reacher. 

This sail will point as well as you can helm your boat and with added great visibilitity. In heavy weather, you'll be able to pinch and foot and point reasonably well. If aesthetics is your worry, than bleach the sail like others have mentioned. If 15 to 30 knot wind is your issue, this is a pretty good choice. As for the rest of your boat, I will not speak to the potential.

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Ok the last part might've been harsh. I'm a big fan of gettin anything out there and ripping it. The Yankee is great for medium high winds in high traffic areas. Go for it and have a blast! You probly won't get blown over and you can see (leeward) under the jib in a harbour etc. What's not to like?

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13 hours ago, fufkin said:

Ok the last part might've been harsh. I'm a big fan of gettin anything out there and ripping it. The Yankee is great for medium high winds in high traffic areas. Go for it and have a blast! You probly won't get blown over and you can see (leeward) under the jib in a harbour etc. What's not to like?

Haha don't blast the boat! It's a project I've been working on for the past couple years while living aboard.  Most of the improvements have been on the inside but there's a new engine (only thing not done by me, not confident enough at that point)/engine room, new electrical everything, new plumbing, new stereo, and lots of new small stuff.  Outside I've dropped the keel and inspected/rebedded and ground down around 5 layers of antifouling paint and repainted, replaced through hulls, now I've pulled off a lot of the deck hardware (rails, vents and soon hatches) and am replacing core/rebedding new hardware better with epoxy surrounding the screws etc.  Soon I may be ready to re-paint and it will be looking a lot more admirable, maybe even getting some respect. :lol: 

I don't know much about sails even though I've been reading up, just wanted to get some opinions from people with more real life experience and decide if I should return the sail and keep looking or keep it.  From the responses though I think I will keep it and it will hopefully help me get out more even when the winds are high.  It just looks so different from what I've seen most other boats with it I figured there may be some kind of reason I don't see these around.

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On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 6:14 PM, duncan (the other one) said:

You don't see them around locally because they don't look cool.

Go blue water cruising, and you'll likely see them everywhere.

Nah, the jib top is now THE cool sail, but only when used in the new (but really old) cool configuration, flown from the end of the sprit with a jib inside it.

 

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Used to have a sail in inventory that looked like that...bag was labelled "ballooner", but I always thought the name was wrong.  We sheeted to the end of the boom (clew->end of boom->turning block on deck at approx chainplates->primary winches) and it was fan-flippin'-tastic at close reaching.  A tack had the intermediate step of launching a proper jib, and a gybe included a spinnaker launch.

Pros -- great visibility, fast sail at a close reach.

Cons -- won't point, won't run...although we had two headstays, so wing-on-wing with this to leeward (to the end of the boom) and a genoa to "windward" put a lot of sail area up and still was considered "non-flying".

Of course, this was on an old universal rule boat.....times have changed!

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On 9/8/2017 at 8:14 AM, duncan (the other one) said:

You don't see them around locally because they don't look cool.

Go blue water cruising, and you'll likely see them everywhere.

Every racing boat I sail on has one... they are pretty useful though less used now Code Zeroes have caught on.   Excellent for reaching in breeze 

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4 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Every racing boat I sail on has one... they are pretty useful though less used now Code Zeroes have caught on.   Excellent for reaching in breeze 

 

Well - they probably have a JT -- I'm not sure that high yankee qualifies ?  Maybe on bigger boats where multiple reaching sails can be flown?

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1 hour ago, duncan (the other one) said:

 

Well - they probably have a JT -- I'm not sure that high yankee qualifies ?  Maybe on bigger boats where multiple reaching sails can be flown?

Yep JT - that's essentially what the OP's  sail is.  Yankee staysail was typically flown n a pennant IIRC

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You might want to put the sheet through a tweeker.....just had another look at the boat.

Don't worry about it.

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