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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
svein99

Seascape D2 aka 14

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1 hour ago, jbigden said:

http://reddotpier.com/seascape-apparently-shortly-before-the-introduction-of-a-dinghy/

Odd website but some details.

I have a friend looking for something very like the described spec, and so far not finding exactly the right fit in new or used boats currently on the market.

Oh Boy! a new dinghy. But wait..... Hark!........no OD class assoc. established. No used boats at 1/4 of new price available. How much are replacement sails? Can we use intensity sails for practice? Are the nationals going to be within 15 min from my home?  I hope we can have a seperate rating when I'm sailing two up with my 7 yr. old ADD grandson. From the above post maybe we already may have one sold. Wonder what'll  it rate? Can hardly wait till the Sailing World mag. test is published. I hope it comes with helmets included.

I love S/A B)

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The Seascape 14 is now officially launched and should sail in the next few days. Hull weight 67kg - vinyl ester vacuum infused. Carbon rig, SA(U)=8.5-12m2, SA(DN)=8.5-23m2. Price ex. works 8200euro.

http://www.yacht.de/yachten_jollen/neue_boote/exklusiv-bilder-daten-und-preise-der-neuen-seascape-14/a115155.html

http://www.thinkseascape.com/2017/12/seascape14/

 

 

untitled.318_3.jpg

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On September 15, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Blackjack2 said:

Oh Boy! a new dinghy. But wait..... Hark!........no OD class assoc. established. No used boats at 1/4 of new price available. How much are replacement sails? Can we use intensity sails for practice? Are the nationals going to be within 15 min from my home?  I hope we can have a seperate rating when I'm sailing two up with my 7 yr. old ADD grandson. From the above post maybe we already may have one sold. Wonder what'll  it rate? Can hardly wait till the Sailing World mag. test is published. I hope it comes with helmets included.

I love S/A B)

How many cupholders does it have?

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50 minutes ago, tillerman said:

Depends on how many grandkids I have on the boat with me.

If they're small enough you can carry a six-pack... But, if they're small enough that you can carry a six-pack it will need to be other than beer.

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That boat is interesting but 67Kg is very heavy. It's twice the weight of the RS Aero. It's more difficult to put it on the roof of a car, more difficult to move it on the beach. I think that ease of use is the key to success and a lightweight boat will always be easier to handle and use than a heavy one!

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2 hours ago, erictra20 said:

That boat is interesting but 67Kg is very heavy. It's twice the weight of the RS Aero. It's more difficult to put it on the roof of a car, more difficult to move it on the beach. I think that ease of use is the key to success and a lightweight boat will always be easier to handle and use than a heavy one!

Not very heavy for a double hander. A windmill for example is 50# heavier and a Snipe is even heavier than that. The stopper is still no class association or critical mass of boats. Until it has that, it is just another Orphan to be.

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1 hour ago, Foxy said:

The stopper is still no class association or critical mass of boats. Until it has that, it is just another Orphan to be.

Do they have a dealer network in North America?

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I am with Tillerman! No swill, no sail...! Needs net for transom to keep empties in boat...

 

Outside of that, nothing special here, same newer stuff...

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Looks so clean and tidy in the pics, shame they don't look like this in real life. What's that horizontal bar in front of the mast for?

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6 hours ago, Dart96 said:

Looks so clean and tidy in the pics, shame they don't look like this in real life. What's that horizontal bar in front of the mast for?

Probably for the jib, maybe self tacking?

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selftacking jib probably

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3 hours ago, Major Tom said:

Probably for the jib, maybe self tacking?

A step brace...am thinkin' Coulda been done different, but likely low cost and easy to produce...

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Jib has a self tracking track in front of the mast, but it does not interfere with the mast.

Weightwise... you can go very light but then the drawback is the durability and usable sailing life. Aero is way smaller boat, we deliberately went for a wider hull with bigger hull stability in order to allow the beginners and weekend sailors have fun. World definitely does not need another skiff where you need to be best case an ex-gymnast to sail and have fun.

Actually we are very similar size like 29er or RS500...so weight wise we are quite on the target...attached is the benchmarking that can give some of the insight into our thinking.

As always, we try to do an established things a bit different and we'll see in few days how this baby works. But sure, this is a well populated segment and everybody can find something that fits his wishes...

D14-firstinfo 3.pdf

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Kristian,

What is the design crew weight for the two-up mode? Is it in the 280-320 ibs (127-145kg) range? Similar to a Vanguard 15 in the US (and maybe an RS 200)?

Thanks!

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Probably 150kg. To simplify things it also has a GNAV vang and snuffer bag system for the genakker. Per Seascape tradition the rig and sprit is all carbon and rudder is in a casette.

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The small volume in the aft quarters (where seat is removed) makes it seem prone to the stern sinking in a bad tack - adding a transom may help? Otherwise I like the concept of removing the 'seat' adjacent to the tiller.

Yes.. I have indeed done a stern first capsize, on the start line in strong wind.

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13 hours ago, Kristian Seascape said:

World definitely does not need another skiff where you need to be best case an ex-gymnast to sail and have fun.

I don't agree at all and you're exaggerating a bit.... I'm a weekend sailor I don't do gym at all and I can perfectly and very easily sail an Aero without being exhausted and I'm having great fun with it. I was talking about weight because I need to drive my boat to the beach I also need to store it under the roof in winter... I owned a Hobie 16 in the past which is definitely a heavy boat and what I discover (with age also) is that the lighter it is the more you use it. 

Your boat is different because it can be sailed single handed or double handed but it's very difficult to get the best of both worlds!

 

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4 hours ago, Ben G said:

The small volume in the aft quarters (where seat is removed) makes it seem prone to the stern sinking in a bad tack - adding a transom may help? Otherwise I like the concept of removing the 'seat' adjacent to the tiller.

Yes.. I have indeed done a stern first capsize, on the start line in strong wind.

+1, And, even if for different reasons. May be easier to get back in too, But I built a Malibu Outrigger type and only worry about losing stuff tween the slats now...added a net...boat looks to be a tad too athletic for this swab...Am more the 420/FJ/Kite/outrigger - type.

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3 hours ago, erictra20 said:

I don't agree at all and you're exaggerating a bit.... I'm a weekend sailor I don't do gym at all and I can perfectly and very easily sail an Aero without being exhausted and I'm having great fun with it.

Well said erictra20. There seems to be a misconception about the RS Aero in some quarters. It's not some  super-difficult high-performance skiff that you have to be incredibly fit and agile - or an "ex-gymnast" - to sail. It's "merely" a modern hiking planing single-hander.

Think of it as a 21st century Laser. If you can sail a a Laser, you can sail an Aero. If you are good at sailing a Laser, you will be good at sailing an Aero. Except you will find it more exciting and more fun. (And a lot easier to haul up the ramp or beach after a hard day's sailing.)

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11 minutes ago, tillerman said:

Well said erictra20. There seems to be a misconception about the RS Aero in some quarters. It's not some  super-difficult high-performance skiff that you have to be incredibly fit and agile - or an "ex-gymnast" - to sail. It's "merely" a modern hiking planing single-hander.

Think of it as a 21st century Laser. If you can sail a a Laser, you can sail an Aero. If you are good at sailing a Laser, you will be good at sailing an Aero. Except you will find it more exciting and more fun. (And a lot easier to haul up the ramp or beach after a hard day's sailing.)

+1 And I will go one better. Banshee, from 70s., up-dated with Harkens and carbon would be as good and fun as a SA Ninja and way past Lasers.

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So dad or mom can sail alone,

or two up if weight allows ;) I see a bit of fight going on for space though with two adults.

Or with your kid.

Or send a couple kids together.

Not bad.

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1 hour ago, tillerman said:

Well said erictra20. There seems to be a misconception about the RS Aero in some quarters. It's not some  super-difficult high-performance skiff that you have to be incredibly fit and agile - or an "ex-gymnast" - to sail. It's "merely" a modern hiking planing single-hander.

Think of it as a 21st century Laser. If you can sail a a Laser, you can sail an Aero. If you are good at sailing a Laser, you will be good at sailing an Aero. Except you will find it more exciting and more fun. (And a lot easier to haul up the ramp or beach after a hard day's sailing.)

I don't believe the aero was being identified as a skiff type.

Probably was making a comparison with a 29er?

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1 hour ago, tillerman said:

How much will the Seascape D2 aka 14 cost in the US?

Base price is 8200 euro so you can expect around $9700 ex. factory plus duty, shipping and handling and taxes at current exchange rates. For a quote you should contact the US dealer.

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This is the only boat I've seen with two dagger board slots. I often sail a Laser 2 single handed, mainsail only from the trapeze, being able to move the dagger board would be great. So twin slots is a really useful innovation and needs to be made a lot more of.

This thing really ticks my boxes, far more useful  than a straight single hander or two hander,  gnav makes a big difference to.

Only thing I'd like is the option to close in the back of the cockpit with something solid that was easily removable. It's too easy to loose stuff out the back. Trolley idea looks great to.

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33 minutes ago, Dart96 said:

This is the only boat I've seen with two dagger board slots. I often sail a Laser 2 single handed, mainsail only from the trapeze, being able to move the dagger board would be great. So twin slots is a really useful innovation and needs to be made a lot more of.

This thing really ticks my boxes, far more useful  than a straight single hander or two hander,  gnav makes a big difference to.

Only thing I'd like is the option to close in the back of the cockpit with something solid that was easily removable. It's too easy to loose stuff out the back. Trolley idea looks great to.

Something like the tow little carbon flaps at the back of the Aero. High enough to catch things but low enough to crawl over in a stern entry.

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22 minutes ago, Locus said:

Something like the tow little carbon flaps at the back of the Aero. High enough to catch things but low enough to crawl over in a stern entry.

I heard that the RS Aero was originally going to be an open transom boat, but the drain flaps were added because it was felt that the American market would prefer them to a totally open back.

rs_aero_3.jpg

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As we plan to sail the two prototypes + use & abuse them in order to see what works and what doesn't, before going into full production mode. We spent quite some time on generic ergonomic research with full size deck mockups before making the first hull. So, I am keen to verify the ideas in real life situations. Shapes are not carved in stone and can change if the testing proves them wrong...

Aero is a great boat, really a benchmark in singlehanded dinghies. One would say, so it Melges 14. And another would say VX EVO (i love this one and I would like to have one, although it would just share the space with my A Cat under the shipyard roof, as I do not have time to sail...). Point is, world of dinghies is crowded and anyone can find something to like. We try to use our Seascape approach to create something that is fun and simple to sail either with wife /kids or even alone if you don't have partner. But we definitely won't tackle dedicated singlehanders as that was never our goal...

I wish you all a Merry Christmas and happy New Year.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Martin T said:

What's with the two daggerboard slots?

Since this is a prototype we need to try out the ideas. This is an  experiment to confirm or reject an idea that you will need to move DB from forward slot (when doublehanding with jib+mainsail) to back slot (singlehanding, mainsail only) in order to balance the boat.
 

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Two daggerboard slots?  See below regarding the MFG Sidewinder that I picked up off an MFG-dedicated website.  "The boat was designed by the world famous designers Rod MacAlpine Downie and Dick Gibbs and was sold in two main configurations: cat and sloop. The hull had two slots for the centerboard, one for the cat rig and the other for the sloop."

Image result for sidewinder sailboat

 

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All about Center of Effort (CE) but adds complications...just as does foiling...every move has a consequence...easy or speed? You get my drift.

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8 hours ago, Kristian Seascape said:

probably not crucial but if it does it will help the sales... :)

CLASSIC!!

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Historically there have been a good many attempts at a boat to fulfill multiple roles like this, but they've all foundered on the same issue. The design requirements are so very varied that they ended up with a boat that does everything badly - or at best almost everything. This may not be a sales disaster for an entry level boat, but I don't see many who purchase such compromised craft continuing in the sport. 

So it would be interesting to hear what design innovations you have to cope with this that have not been tried before.

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This may not be a sales disaster for an entry level boat, but I don't see many who purchase such compromised craft continuing in the sport. 

I raced on Optimist, Laser, J24 und finished in the first third of the worlds in the (non olympic, non professional) Dart 18 Class. Now I'm part of our clubs racing team with onedesign sportboats like J70. So I would say I'm not exactly entry level. Since I would like to sail a bit with my sons (4/6 years old) in the near future I'm looking for a fun dingy with main, jib and gennacker (spinnaker would be to complicatet for < 10 year old boys) that does not sail like a banana. It has to go onto my car roof (thus be < 100kg), as we often have a caravan on the tow-bar for holidays and weekends.

After 3 months of research, I only found the RS200. Now I'm following the informations on the Seascape 14 with big interests, because, this could turn out perfect. The market for fun-2-person-car roof-boats is probably not the biggest one, but I dont think it is a small one too. Seascape proved with their yachts that they can build interesting boats who fulfill their promises. So I'm looking forward to more informations and news and hope they bringe some sailing pictures and videos soon!

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On 1/9/2018 at 12:33 PM, High Flow said:

Did it float?

actually she floats quite nicely. There are some things regarding deckgear that needs to be optimized, but the general consensus after a first day of sailing in 15kts of wind was that she's all fun (despite January temperatures). Pics/vids will follow once they are uploaded.

26229737_10216080128424953_9062967300704183359_n.jpg

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Trapez: 50% more sail area than a Contender in a similarly sized boat, must have been a beast!

The SSC14/D2 looks interesting, very crowded market though. Maybe add a trapeze for single handing? Two handed crew will likely need to be around 120kg total.

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