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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Amati

Montgomery 16 una rigged

30 posts in this topic

What a cutie- saw the first one out of the mold Bellingham bay- perfect boat, although the boom is too high, but I'm an ex Finn sailor, so...

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11 hours ago, Amati said:

What a cutie- saw the first one out of the mold Bellingham bay- perfect boat, although the boom is too high, but I'm an ex Finn sailor, so...

Photo? I didn't know that a 16 was in the works. Who built it?

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Oh hell no ... Sage Marine didn't build that 'Montgomery 16' ... Jerry Montgomery will have nothing to do with the Eeg creation that is using the Montgomery name (against Jerry's wishes).

You will notice that the 'M16' copies much of the SageCat innovations including the fathead main and the location of the mast, etc.

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Sorry about how dark the photo is- the state and Canada were burning

edit- if you tap on the pic it shows upright- at least on my phone

 

IMG_0311.JPG

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On 9/8/2017 at 0:11 PM, Scoob said:

Oh hell no ... Sage Marine didn't build that 'Montgomery 16' ... Jerry Montgomery will have nothing to do with the Eeg creation that is using the Montgomery name (against Jerry's wishes).

You will notice that the 'M16' copies much of the SageCat innovations including the fathead main and the location of the mast, etc.

Create at your peril, unfortunately.

"Good artists borrow- great artists steal" Pablo Picasso

but I'm feeling very cynical tonight

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A video of Jerry Montgomery sailing one of his designs -

 

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I've always liked catboats, but I don't especially like any of the usual Cape Cod models. Hey, I'm from New Jersey where catboats aren't so beamy. I walk past a Compac 19-footer (I think) and wonder about re-frigging one as a cat. And I've looked at the Sage ads and wondered if they would rig one of the bigger boats as a cat.

(All speculation. As a practical matter, I'm probably stuck in sloop country.)

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38 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

... I've looked at the Sage ads and wondered if they would rig one of the bigger boats as a cat.

making a catboat version of the S17 has been discussed.  the challenge is re-engineering the house and foredeck to take the compression loads so as to keep the cabin free of a compression post.  then looking at center of effort in placing a mast.  and then many more other considerations.  not a 'simple' task but fun to think about!!

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10 minutes ago, Scoob said:

making a catboat version of the S17 has been discussed.  the challenge is re-engineering the house and foredeck to take the compression loads so as to keep the cabin free of a compression post.  then looking at center of effort in placing a mast.  and then many more other considerations.  not a 'simple' task but fun to think about!!

I'm sure for the general market, you would have to keep the forepeak looking habitable, but for my purposes, a compression post (or keel-stepped mast) would be totally tolerable. No one sleeps on my 28-foot sloop, so I don't think anyone would sleep a little daysailer.  But of course, if you are willing to give up the v-berth, then maybe you want a completely different interior liner. Thinking about these things is so much easier and cheaper than doing them.

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And here is a size where it starts getting interesting http://zurnyachts.com/designs/sail/Marblehead-22

an una rigged Int 110 with a rotating unstayed wing mast or rigged (una rigged even to get the mast back towards the cockpit!) (oh that would hit the mass market sweet spot all right! ;);)) like Roxanne/Rozinante/ with optional hiking planks a la Int Canoe?  The Goat Island Skiff is pretty spunky- bigger?

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1 hour ago, Scoob said:

for the cost to buy one Marblehead 22 you can buy four SageCats ...

I'm saving my pennies for your Sage 15s.

Now if only my teenagers and my wife wouldn't keep raiding the penny stash! I drive by the back of Spyderco every few days on the way home and yell hello to your most recent newborns, they look awesome. My son and I needed a 15 this summer, hopefully we'll have one by next summer.

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6 hours ago, Scoob said:

making a catboat version of the S17 has been discussed.  the challenge is re-engineering the house and foredeck to take the compression loads so as to keep the cabin free of a compression post.  then looking at center of effort in placing a mast.  and then many more other considerations.  not a 'simple' task but fun to think about!!

Regarding SemiSalt's observation, how important is cabin space?  (Both for marketing and for actual use).   It seems a lot of 'big boats' are daysailors with overcapacity, while a few intrepid trailer sailors cover miles in minimalist fashion.    I find it far more interesting to see the little boat used to capacity (within the design's weather window).  

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

Regarding SemiSalt's observation, how important is cabin space?  (Both for marketing and for actual use).   It seems a lot of 'big boats' are daysailors with overcapacity, while a few intrepid trailer sailors cover miles in minimalist fashion.    I find it far more interesting to see the little boat used to capacity (within the design's weather window).  

Check out on Sage Marine's BLOG and forum a SageCat's owners ten day cruise report in the San Juan Islands, WA -

https://sagemarineblog.wordpress.com/

http://www.sagemarine.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=757

 

I've also done multi-day trips on the boat.  below from my June '17 trip around Northern Puget Sound.

59b724803e02b_MommaKittySunrise.thumb.jpg.a59ba21b9d4652bfb0a493b6d224ecd3.jpg59b72480ec332_NorthernPugetSound.thumb.jpg.fbddd1a14210eca74cac2d3c02d4ceef.jpg59b72481855b5_SageCatatanchor.jpg.23ac3bf7a4016e5129fbce53ab1f6577.jpg

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

I'm saving my pennies for your Sage 15s.

Now if only my teenagers and my wife wouldn't keep raiding the penny stash! I drive by the back of Spyderco every few days on the way home and yell hello to your most recent newborns, they look awesome. My son and I needed a 15 this summer, hopefully we'll have one by next summer.

Thanks for the kind words Mike.

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4 hours ago, Scoob said:

for the cost to buy one Marblehead 22 you can buy four SageCats ...

Yup.  And lovely boats they are.  You've a great eye.

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12 hours ago, Scoob said:

Check out on Sage Marine's BLOG and forum a SageCat's owners ten day cruise report in the San Juan Islands, WA -

https://sagemarineblog.wordpress.com/

http://www.sagemarine.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=757

 

I've also done multi-day trips on the boat.  below from my June '17 trip around Northern Puget Sound.

59b724803e02b_MommaKittySunrise.thumb.jpg.a59ba21b9d4652bfb0a493b6d224ecd3.jpg59b72480ec332_NorthernPugetSound.thumb.jpg.fbddd1a14210eca74cac2d3c02d4ceef.jpg59b72481855b5_SageCatatanchor.jpg.23ac3bf7a4016e5129fbce53ab1f6577.jpg

Were you just up in Friday Harbor?  

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2 hours ago, Amati said:

Were you just up in Friday Harbor?  

nope ... wish is was!

busy in the boat shop buildin' boats -

59b7f4ed75a91_SageCatSage15hullbeinginfused.jpg.2a9da4671cb1a3b6c7d2d3cbf9f7dcf7.jpg

(a Sage 15 SageCat hull being vinylester resin infused.)

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On 9/12/2017 at 8:54 AM, Scoob said:

nope ... wish is was!

busy in the boat shop buildin' boats -

59b7f4ed75a91_SageCatSage15hullbeinginfused.jpg.2a9da4671cb1a3b6c7d2d3cbf9f7dcf7.jpg

(a Sage 15 SageCat hull being vinylester resin infused.)

Glorious infusion rig Scooby.

Do you make the cats only on order, or are they part of your regular rotation?

For SageCat's blog, when he said they had a six day cruise with three adults and a dog on the 15, that's insanely impressive to me, do you know any of the details of how they managed that? It blows my mind that all three adults were able to use the v-berth at once. Does the board need to be down to use the v-berth on the cat, same as the sloop? Do you know what kind of head they used for the six days? Wagbag? Do you know why SageCat chose the cat over the sloop? Is there a noticeable difference with the weight of the rotating mast on the pitching?

Also, if you've tested both the cat and sloop on Dillon, any idea of the performance of each with light air versus 20-some knots?

Apologies for all the questions ... my main goal for cruising is the various Colorado lakes, I wasn't sure if the 15 would be big enough for my son and I, but if three adults and a dog could manage ...

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29 minutes ago, mikewof said:

For SageCat's blog, when he said they had a six day cruise with three adults and a dog on the 15

That sounds like German porn.

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16 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

That sounds like German porn.

Thus the rotating mast ...

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12 hours ago, mikewof said:

Do you make the cats only on order, or are they part of your regular rotation?

regular rotation

 

Quote

...do you know any of the details of how they managed that?

three on the v-berth. dog slept on one of the cabin seats,

 

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Does the board need to be down to use the v-berth

with the board up the v-berth can be used like you have two quarter-berths.

 

Quote

on the cat, same as the sloop?

the boats are identical in the hull, daggerboard and cabin.  differences are in the rudder, coring in the deck and the standing rigs.

 

Quote

Do you know what kind of head they used for the six days?

No I don't.

 

Quote

Do you know why SageCat chose the cat over the sloop?

Cody wasn't interested in using a headsail.

 

Quote

Is there a noticeable difference with the weight of the rotating mast on the pitching?

none that i've noticed.  the masts are about the same weight.  SageCat's main, being 119 sq. ft. and fully battended is heavier than the S15 combined main & jib.

 

Quote

any idea of the performance of each with light air versus 20-some knots?

i've sailed the S15 in wind up to 25kts.  i've sailed the SageCat in winds up to 35kts.

i've not sailed the S15 on Dillon, CO; just the SageCat.  I've sailed both boats on Chatfield, CO, Lake Pleasant, AZ, and Puget Sound, WA.  I've also sailed the S15 on Monterey, CA.

SageCat is faster in light wind (that fathead main catching more wind up high).  The boats are very very equally matched.  in most cases the SageCat will point a bit higher than the S15 (if you have the cat's main correctly trimmed).  The faster boat comes down to who is helming the boat and whom gets lucky with the wind.

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"The faster boat comes down to who is helming the boat and whom gets lucky with the wind."  That is pretty much always the case, no?  :lol:

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On 9/11/2017 at 10:38 AM, Amati said:

And here is a size where it starts getting interesting http://zurnyachts.com/designs/sail/Marblehead-22

an una rigged Int 110 with a rotating unstayed wing mast or rigged (una rigged even to get the mast back towards the cockpit!) (oh that would hit the mass market sweet spot all right! ;);)) like Roxanne/Rozinante/ with optional hiking planks a la Int Canoe?  The Goat Island Skiff is pretty spunky- bigger?

We'd get along well!

Love the Marblehead 22. But I've got a little sketch on my desk that I keep looking at wistfully for a 40'+ cat daysailer for Bob to refine when I can get the Admiral to let me have two big boats. (yup, sure, right)  Small, though long, boat with mast well aft.   I love long foredecks and after decks....

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2 hours ago, Veeger said:

We'd get along well!

Love the Marblehead 22. But I've got a little sketch on my desk that I keep looking at wistfully for a 40'+ cat daysailer for Bob to refine when I can get the Admiral to let me have two big boats. (yup, sure, right)  Small, though long, boat with mast well aft.   I love long foredecks and after decks....

It does keep us off the streets.... And the upside is that Mrs. A knows where I'll be- out in the garage, either whacking away at some plywood, or sitting on the chair of contemplation, coffee in hand, wondering what the hell I'm doing, this time.

BTW, Bolger designed a class D cat with box plywood hulls (think low rider Moth hull) that was cheap and fast enough that it chattered over small ripples in the agua.  Used a rig from another boat-

There can be power in material limits. B)

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On 9/11/2017 at 3:05 AM, Amati said:

Sorry about how dark the photo is- the state and Canada were burning

edit- if you tap on the pic it shows upright- at least on my phone

 

IMG_0311.JPG

Hmmm... Thought this was a thread about the new M 16.

Any how that image looks like the 16 we saw at Bellingham a week or two ago.

It had a very nice strut assisted kick up rudder. No centerboard trunk intruding in the cabin either. 

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More casual than that- just saw it as we were motoring over to Seaview North to get a new prop put on, so I posted a pic.

:wub:I like catboats in general....

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He said it had a pretty neutral helm when he sailed it in California fresh out of the factory.

He had just got here and was to be out for a couple weeks. We were hoping to bump into him again but it wasn't to be.

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