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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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Shortforbob

On Ya Betsy

212 posts in this topic

One thing Trump's admin do really really well.

Destroy first..think about it later.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-08/betsy-devos-to-scrap-obama-rules-on-campus-sexual-assault/8884776

In a speech at the George Mason University, Ms DeVos repeatedly spoke about protecting the rights of both victims and students accused of sexual assault, saying the conversation had wrongly been framed as "a contest between men and women".

Ms DeVos did not detail how the rules would change, but said her office would seek feedback from the public and universities to develop new rules.

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9 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

There are good people on both sides of rape

I know this was not serious, but some of these cases seem to start with "I was so drunk............and then I woke up next to some person and had no idea how I got there".

WTF do you do with THAT?

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Just now, hermetic said:

academia should not be adjudicating sexual assault 

+1

This is a felony CRIME, not cheating on a test or trashing a dorm room. Perps belong in jail, not on double-secret probation.

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I've never understood what a uni has to do with it..but then again..I've never understood why you have this Civil or Criminal thing.

seems like setting someone up for a fleecing or face a criminal court is enshrined in your legal system.

 

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You are missing something.

Criminal - robbed a bank or something. Could be in jail for a long time.

Civil - parked in the red zone. Worst that can happen is a fine. Many states changed penalties for small amounts of pot from criminal to civil some time ago.

Campus rape - A whole new weird area where *school administrators* are judge and jury and the worst they can do is kick you out of school. This is a pretty trivial penalty in one way, beats 20 years in jail, but in another way being kicked out of school for sexual assault is not a good way to start off your adult life. The worst part is there is nothing like the protections an accused person has in a real court. These kangaroo courts can - and do - "convict" people on evidence that in no way would hold up in a real court. They also tend to be hugely biased. Traditionally if the accused was a member of a sports team, and especially if he (almost always a he) is a good player, killing several people on national TV would get a pass. Lately it can be more the other way, if you have a penis you are guilty. Take a case of drunk people waking up next to a stranger. For a guy, this is fodder for endless teasing from your mates and jokes about coyote dates (you chew your own arm off to get away without waking her up). If you are female, well you MUST have been raped :rolleyes: Well you very well might have been preyed upon, and I know that happens, but also maybe the guy was just as drunk and just as incapable of rational thought and consent as you were.

* anyone recall the infamous gang rape frat in Virginia or the Duke lacrosse team? They both went through hell and were eventually found to be totally innocent of the charges.

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Criminal - charges brought by the state which could result in fines or jail.

Civil - charges brought between two parties which could result in restitution but no jail time.

Think OJ.

In the case of campus rape, Betsy is trying to address the problem of the accused rapist being thrown out of the school without proper criminal adjudication first.  Basically, if one party claims being raped, the suspect is extra-judicially prosecuted by the school.  Of course this was brought about because too many claims of rape were not investigated.  

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I know this was not serious, but some of these cases seem to start with "I was so drunk............and then I woke up next to some person and had no idea how I got there".

WTF do you do with THAT?

Well, I'd be sure that the system had some standard for reporting that requires a certain degree of evidence that a crime had been committed before charges were brought. However, if that standard was met, being drunk no more exonerates the perpetrator as it does cast blame on the victim. If either person being drunk casts doubt on whether a crime was committed, that should be reflected in the process. If for no other reason, the reporting and discovery process documents the issue, in case it arises again with either party. Repetitive risky behavior will be identified.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak to "reduced capacity" in legal terms, but the courts are well used to these thorny issues, I am sure.

I do wonder whether taking things off campus would increase or decrease reporting. 

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All that said, pussy-grabber Trump and his minions are the LAST people that should be messing with this.

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Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests—we did.

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It's a hard one this "I was passed out/totally pissed and didn't consent" thing..one day, when boys become men..they might level the playing field..as it is at the moment..well the "rules" are the same for boys and girls..If it's too drunk leave it alone.

As for this "Uni rules" crap..If it's rape or sexual assault..it's a crime..go to real police and report it or go away.

How can anyone expect to take these crimes seriously if there are "mini rules".

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Mandatory body cams.  I'll review them to determine if an assault charge is warranted.

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3 hours ago, phillysailor said:

There are good people on both sides of rape

Especially in Mexico. Because they're all rapists, and yet some of them, I assume, are good people.

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Secretary DeVos has been invited to deliver a commencement address at the University of Baltimore.

Link.

I doubt she will be warmly welcomed.

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On 9/8/2017 at 8:32 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

I know this was not serious, but some of these cases seem to start with "I was so drunk............and then I woke up next to some person and had no idea how I got there".

WTF do you do with THAT?

The male is guilty of rape if they are a student.

better question is what happens if they are both women.

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On 9/8/2017 at 11:53 AM, Shortforbob said:

It's a hard one this "I was passed out/totally pissed and didn't consent" thing..one day, when boys become men..they might level the playing field..as it is at the moment..well the "rules" are the same for boys and girls..If it's too drunk leave it alone.

As for this "Uni rules" crap..If it's rape or sexual assault..it's a crime..go to real police and report it or go away.

How can anyone expect to take these crimes seriously if there are "mini rules".

You are missing the point.  Schools police don't investigate nor report to authorities outside the school.  Young students too ashamed to go to authorities outside the school.  Schools create kangaroo courts to keep authorities out of their 'business' and keep the students mouths shut.   It's a scam.

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On 9/8/2017 at 11:58 PM, Spatial Ed said:

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests—we did.

Good Job

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19 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

You are missing the point.  Schools police don't investigate nor report to authorities outside the school.  Young students too ashamed to go to authorities outside the school.  Schools create kangaroo courts to keep authorities out of their 'business' and keep the students mouths shut.   It's a scam.

I think it's you miss my point..but I can't be fucked explaining why.

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1 minute ago, Rockdog said:

Wrong movie, LB.

applause putin congratulations congrats GIF

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10 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

I think it's you miss my point..but I can't be fucked explaining why.

You state you don't understand.  

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I'm actually kind of agreeing with you. The role of Uni's in on campus sexual assault matters is

To have a 24/7 reporting place, staffed with proffessional council and support services.

Encourage victims to at least get an immediate medical check.

encourage victims to make a full complaint to the state police AND provide professional support and legal council to do this.

As For the perps..well..federal sex offenders data base should do it. If these crimes are reported in the first place. The very idea that a victim of sexual assault..no matter what gender, should be ashamed or afraid or too cynical to report it to the police in 2017, says heaps a about a countries law and justice system.

I've no problem with De Vos looking at these "rules" But has she a workable and better solution in place before she touches them?

Highly unlikely.

 

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5 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

I'm actually kind of agreeing with you. The role of Uni's in on campus sexual assault matters is

To have a 24/7 reporting place, staffed with proffessional council and support services.

Encourage victims to at least get an immediate medical check.

encourage victims to make a full complaint to the state police AND provide professional support and legal council to do this.

As For the perps..well..federal sex offenders data base should do it. If these crimes are reported in the first place. The very idea that a victim of sexual assault..no matter what gender, should be ashamed or afraid or too cynical to report it to the police in 2017, says heaps a about a countries law and justice system.

I've no problem with De Vos looking at these "rules" But has she a workable and better solution in place before she touches them?

Highly unlikely.

 

We already have free legal counsel for this.   

You are looking at the most obvious situation.   The real issue is the requirement of written consent by both parties before having sex or the male is guilty of campus rape if the female reports it as such.  A male student becomes a 'campus rapist' the second he engages in a sexual act with a female student without prior written consent.  

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1 minute ago, Rockdog said:

We already have free legal counsel for this.   

You are looking at the most obvious situation.   The real issue is the requirement of written consent by both parties before having sex or the male is guilty of campus rape if the female reports it as such.  A male student becomes a 'campus rapist' the second he engages in a sexual act with a female student without prior written consent.  

got a link?

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On 9/8/2017 at 10:51 AM, Shortforbob said:

 

 

In a speech at the George Mason University, Ms DeVos repeatedly spoke about protecting the rights of both victims and students accused of sexual assault, saying the conversation had wrongly been framed ............

Ya... Like this guy... "You got what I said all wrong" 

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2017/04/05/shabudin-hold-on-my-rapist-remarks-have-been-taken-out-of-context/

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Just now, Shortforbob said:

got a link?

Are you serious?   You post all that and don't know about prior written consent?  

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5 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

Are you serious?   You post all that and don't know about prior written consent?  

Link please

edit..don't bother..Doggie..

The University of Minnesota is joining a national movement requiring students to obtain “affirmative consent” from their sex partners or risk being disciplined for sexual assault.

The policy change, sometimes known as the “yes means yes” rule, has been sweeping college campuses across the country since California passed the first such law last year.

The U’s new rule, which is poised to take effect this month after a 30-day comment period, says that sex is OK only if both parties express consent through “clear and unambiguous words or actions.” Absent that, it would fit the U’s ­definition of sexual assault.

Is this what you're talking about? or this

OPINION

Advocacy group distributes sexual 'consent contracts' to college students

 

The contract comes as part of a "Consent Conscious Kit," which also includes a pen (to sign the contract, duh), breath mints and a condom. The kit comes in either a canvas or faux suede bag with the group's logo -- the male and female gender symbols combined at the circle. (Image courtesy screenshot)

The Affirmative Consent Project, which advocates for "yes means yes" sexual consent policies, has been distributing "consent contracts" to college students across the country.

The contract states in big red letters: "YES! We agree to have SEX!" (emphasis original), and asks participants to take a photo together holding the contract. If a camera can't be found, then the participants would need to fill out the form included on the back of the contract.

The group provided the Washington Examiner with an image of the form, which simply states that on this date (fill-in-the-blank) "We agree to have consensual sex with one another." The form also provides spaces for two parties to sign and print their names.

 

Gimme a break!

Really, I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt but in your case..well let's just assume you left school grade 8 and never bothered to take any remedial studies.

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Just now, Shortforbob said:

Link please

JFC- look it up.   Not hard to find.  

Why do you comment on things you snag from headlines and not research the full context and background?  

One of my brothers degrees was a master in library science.  He was extremely thorough.  I get the feeling you work at a library so call yourself a librarian.  

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16 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Link please

edit..don't bother..Doggie..

The University of Minnesota is joining a national movement requiring students to obtain “affirmative consent” from their sex partners or risk being disciplined for sexual assault.

The policy change, sometimes known as the “yes means yes” rule, has been sweeping college campuses across the country since California passed the first such law last year.

The U’s new rule, which is poised to take effect this month after a 30-day comment period, says that sex is OK only if both parties express consent through “clear and unambiguous words or actions.” Absent that, it would fit the U’s ­definition of sexual assault.

Is this what you're talking about? or this

OPINION

Advocacy group distributes sexual 'consent contracts' to college students

 

The contract comes as part of a "Consent Conscious Kit," which also includes a pen (to sign the contract, duh), breath mints and a condom. The kit comes in either a canvas or faux suede bag with the group's logo -- the male and female gender symbols combined at the circle. (Image courtesy screenshot)

The Affirmative Consent Project, which advocates for "yes means yes" sexual consent policies, has been distributing "consent contracts" to college students across the country.

The contract states in big red letters: "YES! We agree to have SEX!" (emphasis original), and asks participants to take a photo together holding the contract. If a camera can't be found, then the participants would need to fill out the form included on the back of the contract.

The group provided the Washington Examiner with an image of the form, which simply states that on this date (fill-in-the-blank) "We agree to have consensual sex with one another." The form also provides spaces for two parties to sign and print their names.

 

Gimme a break!

Really, I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt but in your case..well let's just assume you left school grade 8 and never bothered to take any remedial studies.

Mini Consent form PDF Copies soon to be included on the back of condom packaging 

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5 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

JFC- look it up.   Not hard to find.  

Why do you comment on things you snag from headlines and not research the full context and background?  

One of my brothers degrees was a master in library science.  He was extremely thorough.  I get the feeling you work at a library so call yourself a librarian.  

Sorry LB..just can't help myself

:funny:

Doggie, I I know where you got this strange idea from..or rags like it.. Jesus fucking christ. see my edit 

You're not only an idiot but a pompous willfully ignorant idiot too.

actually I've said several times I've only a diploma in Library science..but no one listens.

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1 minute ago, captpiratedog said:

Mini Consent form PDF Copies soon to be included on the back of condom packaging 

It's not law though is it? or Uni policy..or anything except some silly idea dreamed up by people just as idiotic as Dog here.

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On 9/8/2017 at 9:43 AM, phillysailor said:

Well, I'd be sure that the system had some standard for reporting that requires a certain degree of evidence that a crime had been committed before charges were brought. However, if that standard was met, being drunk no more exonerates the perpetrator as it does cast blame on the victim. If either person being drunk casts doubt on whether a crime was committed, that should be reflected in the process. If for no other reason, the reporting and discovery process documents the issue, in case it arises again with either party. Repetitive risky behavior will be identified.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak to "reduced capacity" in legal terms, but the courts are well used to these thorny issues, I am sure.

I do wonder whether taking things off campus would increase or decrease reporting. 

It seems like drunk (diminished capacity) is a defense for the woman but a crime for the guy.   Both genders beer goggle.  

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5 minutes ago, Lark said:

It seems like drunk (diminished capacity) is a defense for the woman but a crime for the guy.   Both genders beer goggle.  

Um..I think it comes down to who's the more vulnerable 

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7 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Um..I think it comes down to who's the more vulnerable 

So the fair sex is weak and  damsels need protected?   Two drunk people at a party start rubbing together.   She has diminished capacity and couldn't consent.   He has diminished credibility and cannot testify in his own defense.   Maybe if they quit calling it the walk of shame here would be less issue.

IMG_0210.JPG

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21 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Sorry LB..just can't help myself

:funny:

Doggie, I I know where you got this strange idea from..or rags like it.. Jesus fucking christ. see my edit 

You're not only an idiot but a pompous willfully ignorant idiot too.

actually I've said several times I've only a diploma in Library science..but no one listens.

I have no Idea why you tagged me into this but since you are here I wanted to give you this...

Written consent.

I LB 15 hereby state that under no circumstances do I give Meli aka shortforbob permission to have sex with me.

Ever.

I do state that I am happy to walk her dog however.

Signed

LB 15.

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21 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Sorry LB..just can't help myself

:funny:

Doggie, I I know where you got this strange idea from..or rags like it.. Jesus fucking christ. see my edit 

You're not only an idiot but a pompous willfully ignorant idiot too.

actually I've said several times I've only a diploma in Library science..but no one listens.

The laws are written in a manner in which one would HAVE to have prior written consent.  Without it there is zero proof of consent.

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10 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I have no Idea why you tagged me into this but since you are here I wanted to give you this...

Written consent.

I LB 15 hereby state that under no circumstances do I give Meli aka shortforbob permission to have sex with me.

Ever.

I do state that I am happy to walk her dog however.

Signed

LB 15.

we have a deal..Poor Boo's walkies are somewhat dependent on Liam ATM.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

we have a deal..Poor Boo's walkies are somewhat dependent on Liam ATM.

 

 

Its a date!

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

Its a date!

You're dating my dog?

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Just now, Shortforbob said:

You're dating my dog?

Does he like it.....wait for it.....ruff?

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Just now, LB 15 said:

Does he like it.....wait for it.....ruff?

:groan:

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What about video consent on a smart phone... does when she says  "don't stop"....or all the other things count

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On 9/10/2017 at 9:31 PM, Bus Driver said:

Secretary DeVos has been invited to deliver a commencement address at the University of Baltimore.

Link.

I doubt she will be warmly welcomed.

This just stinks to high heaven, in more than one way.

Former Baltimore Mayor Kurt Schmoke invited DeVos to speak at the University where he is now President, and, coincidentally, his cousin got a job with the USDE.

Even better is the job from which Julian Schmoke came and his new role in the USDE.

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There are two things wrong with Obama's rules; contrary to well established legal principles defendants are required to prove innocence and Universities should not be involved in criminal matters anyway. DeVos is absolutely right, this has to change.

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On 9/10/2017 at 11:39 PM, Rockdog said:

We already have free legal counsel for this.   

You are looking at the most obvious situation.   The real issue is the requirement of written consent by both parties before having sex or the male is guilty of campus rape if the female reports it as such.  A male student becomes a 'campus rapist' the second he engages in a sexual act with a female student without prior written consent.  

and if you're smart, you'd damn well have a nice little form letter for the lass to sign.

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

There are two things wrong with Obama's rules; contrary to well established legal principles defendants are required to prove innocence and Universities should not be involved in criminal matters anyway. DeVos is absolutely right, this has to change.

Should campus cops investigate sexual assault?

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4 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Should campus cops investigate sexual assault?

At my U, campus cops were actual cops. So, yeah. I know I was the victim of a garden variety assault, and it was the campus cops who took the statement, found the guy, and it was turned over to the city DA for prosecution. The guy plead guilty.

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

At my U, campus cops were actual cops. So, yeah. I know I was the victim of a garden variety assault, and it was the campus cops who took the statement, found the guy, and it was turned over to the city DA for prosecution. The guy plead guilty.

At the state U I attended, campus cops had the same jusidiction and power as state troopers.  They handled everything from drunks to rape to stolen bikes and parking violations.  And they weren't afraid to beat your ass if they got bored.

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On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:49 AM, captpiratedog said:

What about video consent on a smart phone... does when she says  "don't stop"....or all the other things count

Don't!      Stop!

Don't Stop!

:D

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1 hour ago, Spatial Ed said:

Should campus cops investigate sexual assault?

That's fine but adjudication of crimes belongs in the courts.

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37 minutes ago, Dog said:

That's fine but adjudication of crimes belongs in the courts.

So if someone commits rape on a campus, they never go to court?

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19 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

So if someone commits rape on a campus, they never go to court?

Do they always go to court? 

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Not too sure where this "written consent" silliness comes from, but it demonstrates a deeply stupid misunderstanding of consent.

If you believe it, you must also believe that once she signs the letter, she can't change her mind.

If you believe it, you must believe that consenting to some sexual activity, means automatically consenting to any sexual activity.

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

That's fine but adjudication of crimes belongs in the courts.

We need to be clear on "campus cops" as in RAs and security guards vs. actual police departments. Many large campuses have actual police departments.

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12 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

We need to be clear on "campus cops" as in RAs and security guards vs. actual police departments. Many large campuses have actual police departments.

We are clear on that. If they have evidence of rape they should take it to the DA.

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Just now, Dog said:

We are clear on that. If they have evidence of rape they should take it to the DA.

Yes they should. Having a school administrator decide if a felony has been committed is about like getting the cafeteria workers to investigate bank robberies :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Spatial Ed said:

So if someone commits rape on a campus, they never go to court?

They should always go to court.

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23 minutes ago, Dog said:

They should always go to court.

Don't they now?  Are rapists just given double secret probation?

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5 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Don't they now?  Are rapists just given double secret probation?

Are all claims properly investigated by a bona-fide law enforcement agency, or are some decided "administratively" by people who have the school's reputation, application and alumni giving in mind?  

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33 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Are all claims properly investigated by a bona-fide law enforcement agency, or are some decided "administratively" by people who have the school's reputation, application and alumni giving in mind?  

you gents seem to be conflating Criminal Law and student codes-of-conduct.

Hint: they are not the same. A school has pretty wide latitude to administer their code of conduct. Or do you think we need Big Government looking over schools shoulders when it comes to codes-of-conduct?

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

you gents seem to be conflating Criminal Law and student codes-of-conduct.

Hint: they are not the same. A school has pretty wide latitude to administer their code of conduct. Or do you think we need Big Government looking over schools shoulders when it comes to codes-of-conduct?

Sexual assault is a violation of law.

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

you gents seem to be conflating Criminal Law and student codes-of-conduct.

Hint: they are not the same. A school has pretty wide latitude to administer their code of conduct. Or do you think we need Big Government looking over schools shoulders when it comes to codes-of-conduct?

Not at all - but, an attack is a bit more than a violation of a code of conduct, as is a false claim of an attack.  I don't think that a school's administration has the background, training or objectivity to properly adjudicate criminal conduct - do you? 

Cheating on a test, violating alcohol guidelines, non-violent behavioral infractions?  Certainly well within the administration's purview. 

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Just now, Dog said:

Sexual assault is a violation of law.

Well, duh.  And sexual assault is prosecuted. But that's not what you're all fussed about. You're whining cause some young men crossed the line of a code-of-conduct and are paying the dues for it.

There are many things in codes-of-conduct that aren't "illegal" - and in this case, something that might not rise to the legal definition of sexual assault, with the whole innocent-before-guilty process. Therefore, the school has the right to enforce it's code-of-conduct how they see fit.

Unless you want government telling schools how to manage their codes-of-conduct, you big gov't guy.

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5 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Not at all - but, an attack is a bit more than a violation of a code of conduct, as is a false claim of an attack.  I don't think that a school's administration has the background, training or objectivity to properly adjudicate criminal conduct - do you? 

Cheating on a test, violating alcohol guidelines, non-violent behavioral infractions?  Certainly well within the administration's purview. 

and the schools administration doesn't. I'm not sure why you think they act as an adjudicator for criminal conduct. Sexual Assault is against codes-of-conduct everywhere - and guess what, it's civil, it doesn't rise to the innocent-before-guilty standard.

 

 

Edit: OJ wasn't found guilty. Was it wrong that a civil jury laid a big $ penalty on him?

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Just now, Raz'r said:

and the schools administration doesn't. I'm not sure why you think they act as an adjudicator for criminal conduct. Sexual Assault is against codes-of-conduct everywhere - and guess what, it's civil, it doesn't rise to the innocent-before-guilty standard.

Sexual assault/false claims of sexual assault don't rise to the innocent before guilty standard?   

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Well for a young person starting out in life, "kicked out of school for committing sexual assault" is a pretty heavy burden to bear. This will live on the interwebs forever. The idea that this can happen at basically the whim of a professor in a bad mood and with no evidence is kind of scary.

* I was once called as a witness in a sex assault case in the rather strict courtroom of the accused's father. I could truthfully say the girl in question was never closer than 3 feet to any male in the house. She was not happy about being dumped and thought this was a good way to get back at him......

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Sexual assault/false claims of sexual assault don't rise to the innocent before guilty standard?   

Criminal, yes, Civil?

Murder certainly rises to that, right? So why was OJ made to pay $s?

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Well, duh.  And sexual assault is prosecuted. But that's not what you're all fussed about. You're whining cause some young men crossed the line of a code-of-conduct and are paying the dues for it.

There are many things in codes-of-conduct that aren't "illegal" - and in this case, something that might not rise to the legal definition of sexual assault, with the whole innocent-before-guilty process. Therefore, the school has the right to enforce it's code-of-conduct how they see fit.

Unless you want government telling schools how to manage their codes-of-conduct, you big gov't guy.

Dude, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. The issue is not that some guys crossed the line. It's the total perversion of principles of justice. The Obama administration told the schools how to manage these cases.

Watch this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfc3XIZ4Fo8

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Just now, kent_island_sailor said:

Well for a young person starting out in life, "kicked out of school for committing sexual assault" is a pretty heavy burden to bear. This will live on the interwebs forever. The idea that this can happen at basically the whim of a professor in a bad mood and with no evidence is kind of scary.

Such is the life at a Uni.  You sign a contract that you are to observe the code, and are subject to its enforcement.

There are plenty of schools out there if you get kicked out of 1. Tell your boys to keep their pants on, and don't hump the drunk ones.

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Just now, Dog said:

Dude, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. The issue is not that some guys crossed the line. It's the total perversion of principles of justice. The Obama administration told the schools how to manage these cases.

Watch this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfc3XIZ4Fo8

why would I watch a propaganda piece? Why do you?

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Such is the life at a Uni.  You sign a contract that you are to observe the code, and are subject to its enforcement.

There are plenty of schools out there if you get kicked out of 1. Tell your boys to keep their pants on, and don't hump the drunk ones.

What the f___  I am no way suggesting ACTUAL rapists be allowed to get away with anything. How easy exactly is it to get into college #2 when you got kicked out of college #1 for being a  rapist? And you know damn well "sexual assault = rape" in most peoples minds, not kissed some girl at a party and then she got mad 3 days later.

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Just now, kent_island_sailor said:

What the f___  I am no way suggesting ACTUAL rapists be allowed to get away with anything. How easy exactly is it to get into college #2 when you got kicked out of college #1 for being a  rapist? And you know damn well "sexual assault = rape" in most peoples minds, not kissed some girl at a party and then she got mad 3 days later.

You can read the Amherst code of conduct if you wish. Unwanted kissing will get you the boot.

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Criminal, yes, Civil?

Murder certainly rises to that, right? So why was OJ made to pay $s?

I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make - are you referring to something beyond the conversation here? 

Kent said it pretty well. 

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How in the name of all that is holy and horny do you KNOW if a kiss is unwanted until you try it?

Excuse me miss, may I kiss you? The human race would die out in one generation.

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Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I honestly don't know what point you're trying to make - are you referring to something beyond the conversation here? 

Kent said it pretty well. 

I believe Dog asked if Sexual Assault was a criminal matter and rises to innocent-before-guilty. Of course it is.  

But this specific case of Faux-rage isn't about a criminal case. It's about Amherst's code of conduct. Within with, there is no innocent-before-guilty. Not my problem if some dude breaks a contract he signed, and the counter-party takes their option to negate the contract.

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5 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

How in the name of all that is holy and horny do you KNOW if a kiss is unwanted until you try it?

Excuse me miss, may I kiss you? The human race would die out in one generation.

If you go to Amherst College, if in doubt, probably good to ask....

 

I'm sure there's an app for that.

 

Edit: ok, that was a joke, but a quick visit to the App Store, and "Yes for Sex" pops up when you type in Consent.  A free app as well....

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Note to self: If somehow God forbid I become single and return to college, stay 500 miles away from Amherst :o:o

Note 2: I would love to see how to work the victimology if two GIRLS are the ones complaining about each other :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I believe Dog asked if Sexual Assault was a criminal matter and rises to innocent-before-guilty. Of course it is.  

But this specific case of Faux-rage isn't about a criminal case. It's about Amherst's code of conduct. Within with, there is no innocent-before-guilty. Not my problem if some dude breaks a contract he signed, and the counter-party takes their option to negate the contract.

Where was Amherst's code of conduct brought in to this?  Before your quote a couple minutes ago - I hadn't noticed it.  My interpretation of your comments was that it's OK for an administrator to decide that something was sexual misconduct, and to act upon that of their own authority - it's THAT understanding that prompted my replies.

This is all getting stupid - we can't expect anyone to be responsible for their own behaviors?  We can't teach our girls that if they look/act certain ways that it's likely to send the wrong message and result in attentions that they don't want, and the best way to avoid those unwanted attentions is to not look/act in those ways?  We can't make our boys understand that it's wrong to take advantage of a girl, and force themselves when those attentions are unwanted?  We can't expect people to understand and abide by this?  WTF..... 

 

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16 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

why would I watch a propaganda piece? Why do you?

Stay ignorant then.

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Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Where was Amherst's code of conduct brought in to this?  Before your quote a couple minutes ago - I hadn't noticed it.  My interpretation of your comments was that it's OK for an administrator to decide that something was sexual misconduct, and to act upon that of their own authority - it's THAT understanding that prompted my replies.

This is all getting stupid - we can't expect anyone to be responsible for their own behaviors?  We can't teach our girls that if they look/act certain ways that it's likely to send the wrong message and result in attentions that they don't want, and the best way to avoid those unwanted attentions is to not look/act in those ways?  We can't make our boys understand that it's wrong to take advantage of a girl, and force themselves when those attentions are unwanted?  We can't expect people to understand and abide by this?  WTF..... 

 

 

(Amherst came into play from the Propaganda piece from Fox...)

Of course you can do that. I chose a different path with my girls, and they are pretty capable of self defense, but if some big hulking asshole comes along, there's not much a 5'2" 105lb'er will be able to do.

But why can't the school hold a guy accountable for a contract HE AGREED TO - including the arbitration clause?

I sign contracts all the time that require arbitration. I don't think there'd be any Faux-rage if I started whining that the arbitration process wasn't as robust as the courts....

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

Stay ignorant then.

the ignorant one seems to be someone saying Amherst overstepped, but didn't bother to read the actual Amherst code-of-conduct.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I believe Dog asked if Sexual Assault was a criminal matter and rises to innocent-before-guilty. Of course it is.  

But this specific case of Faux-rage isn't about a criminal case. It's about Amherst's code of conduct. Within with, there is no innocent-before-guilty. Not my problem if some dude breaks a contract he signed, and the counter-party takes their option to negate the contract.

I didn't ask if sexual assault was a criminal matter, it is, and sexual assault cases should be adjudicated in the courts. Further, it's not about any university's code of conduct, its about Obama administration directives.

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Just now, Dog said:

I didn't ask if sexual assault was a criminal matter, it is, and sexual assault cases should be adjudicated in the courts. Further, it's not about any university's code of conduct, its about Obama administration directives.

Obama's not president. Sorry you seem to forget this....

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Obama's not president. Sorry you seem to forget this....

So now you're resorting to stupid.The thread's about overturning Obama's rules.

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16 minutes ago, Dog said:

So now you're resorting to stupid.The thread's about overturning Obama's rules.

so overturn them already. But it's not about that (it may have started there but has drifted massively) - it's about Faux-rage of lost white male privilege. Suck it up snowflake. Obama's rules can be overturned and Codes-of-conduct will still exist.

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24 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Where was Amherst's code of conduct brought in to this?  Before your quote a couple minutes ago - I hadn't noticed it.  My interpretation of your comments was that it's OK for an administrator to decide that something was sexual misconduct, and to act upon that of their own authority - it's THAT understanding that prompted my replies.

This is all getting stupid - we can't expect anyone to be responsible for their own behaviors?  We can't teach our girls that if they look/act certain ways that it's likely to send the wrong message and result in attentions that they don't want, and the best way to avoid those unwanted attentions is to not look/act in those ways?  We can't make our boys understand that it's wrong to take advantage of a girl, and force themselves when those attentions are unwanted?  We can't expect people to understand and abide by this?  WTF..... 

 

OMFG!!

 

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Just now, Shortforbob said:

OMFG!!

 

I know. I didn't even know what to write to that one....

 

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

I know. I didn't even know what to write to that one....

 

I would suggest you select a college for your daughters as far any from the Chesapeake as possible for starts.

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RESPECT

That's all that needs to be taught..to everyone.

We can teach our girls not to prick tease, we can teach our boys to look not touch.

We can teach people to respect each other ..it's really only hard because there's billions and billions of dollars invested in teaching otherwise.

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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

and if you're smart, you'd damn well have a nice little form letter for the lass to sign.

I'm sorry I can't sleep with you even though you are perfection personified but I didn't bring s form and you've had one drink.   Oh well,  maybe some other time.  

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40 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

OMFG!!

 

Going topless at a college party is certain to draw staring and  comments of gender specific attributes.   Both are considered sexual misconduct at Amherst.

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

 

 

I'm sure there's an app for that.

 

Edit: ok, that was a joke, but a quick visit to the App Store, and "Yes for Sex" pops up when you type in Consent.  A free app as well....

Just wear one of these T-sqirts to every college party you go to and have it signed

Image result for t shirt just say yes to sex

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Still don't understand why accusers don't contact the non campus police.

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Just now, Rockdog said:

Still don't understand why accusers don't contact the non campus police.

Because they don't have the benefit of white male privilege?

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3 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

Still don't understand why accusers don't contact the non campus police.

Because the other cops would tell you not in their jurisdiction and send you right back there - assuming you mean an actual police department. It is not campus POLICE that are the problem, it is campus judge, jury, and executioner that is the problem where the accused has none of the rights he or she would have in a real court.

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