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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

Apart from the lack of washboards, I think that the OP video is OK. Sure one more reef upwind would have been better and sailing the boat more proactively downwind would have helped also but you have to sail to get better at it and they were certainly doing the right thing in being out there. If you stay at home watching TV, you just become dumber.

As said more than once already, we do not have 3rd reef/trysail. And we do not have #4 jib. We do have storm jib, which is way too underpowered for beating in big waves, it's usable for going in general direction you want to go, but not for VMG. We had okay-ish VMG for upwind, even though we heeled way too much (better VMG than when trimming for flatter boat with sails we had available). We would have used smaller sails for upwind if we would have any good choices for that.

We did not have washboard, because we knew from experience that in even in a bad wipeout water is not coming even close to the hatch (and as said before, that is not a reason to not to use washboards just to be overly careful).

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Just to clarify; when planing, the slope of the resistance curve decreases and the overall drag coefficient decreases.  However the power input never decreases with increasing speed.  Below is a generalized resistance curve obtained courtesy of Wikipedia, so the slopes don't apply to every boat,  but the general shape applies to all boats.

Speed-length_vs_weight-resistance.gif

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2 hours ago, joku said:

As said more than once already, we do not have 3rd reef/trysail. And we do not have #4 jib. We do have storm jib, which is way too underpowered for beating in big waves, it's usable for going in general direction you want to go, but not for VMG. We had okay-ish VMG for upwind, even though we heeled way too much (better VMG than when trimming for flatter boat with sails we had available). We would have used smaller sails for upwind if we would have any good choices for that.

We did not have washboard, because we knew from experience that in even in a bad wipeout water is not coming even close to the hatch (and as said before, that is not a reason to not to use washboards just to be overly careful).

Have you tried to go upwind under jib alone? It works surprisingly well on some boats. 

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If the bow is not up, you are not planing, no matter how fast you are going.

Total tosh  this guy has never been on a planing sailboat.

daddle just in case you ever DO find youself on a planing sailboat the place to be is as far back as possible to keep the bow UP.

 

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15 minutes ago, TQA said:

Total tosh  this guy has never been on a planing sailboat.

daddle just in case you ever DO find youself on a planing sailboat the place to be is as far back as possible to keep the bow UP.

I suppose one should precisely define planing? Exactly where on the power/speed curve is one planing. Until then we just have a ridiculous forum spat. DO my 12,000 plus miles on a SC50 count? Or the sportboats before that?

Why does one significantly unwind the throttle of a dinghy when it accelerates onto a plane? Perhaps that Wikipedia curve is more variable than indicated?

As far as bow-up or bow-down, one does whatever gives the desired results.

 

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?? Crash, The bow must be up to plane ?

We had the nose buried every time we caught the wave in front (and as Lydia said I forgot to pull the cruising anchor out of the bow locker) 

We had enough power to push through it, boat speed didn't drop below 15 when we were buried. Waterline length of 40'.

Genuinely curious. Does that mean this isn't planing? 

 

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11 hours ago, joku said:

Good points. About this one, with 2nd reef on the main jib is not backwinding the main. There's no good slot between jib&main, as the main is so small. In general, this is what we do with full main (but change in jib sheet is something like 2-5cm, not 25cm).

Hows about moving lead back to open leech?

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3 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

?? Crash, The bow must be up to plane ?

We had the nose buried every time we caught the wave in front (and as Lydia said I forgot to pull the cruising anchor out of the bow locker) 

We had enough power to push through it, boat speed didn't drop below 15 when we were buried. Waterline length of 40'.

Genuinely curious. Does that mean this isn't planing? 

 

Most likely flow was detached from hull throughout the extravaganza if you maintained fun-factor-15, so yes - you were planing. That is unless your submerge-detection system on your hyperdrive activated during each dive and meant relativity played havoc and your hull greatly extended temporarily in order for you to have a 15kt design hull speed, then snapped back to normal when the spume cleared. Or perhaps the boat is floppy enough that the hull form was under such pressure that for each dive it flexed into a non-displacement hull form temporarily.

But I think you were probably just enjoying a good plane.

 

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I agree with Carcrash.

Speed has little to do with whether a boat is planing, even though a lot of people like to think so.  A narrow low wave dag hull (like on multis)  are capable of very high speeds, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone refer to a multi planing.

Planing requires lift.

There has to be a positive AOA in order to generate lift and generally speaking only the front half of a boat has positive AOA. The stern has negative AOA so generates suction rather than lift.  However a wide shallow stern will generate less suction than an IOR type stern resulting in greater net lift (bow lift – stern suction). 

So while a wide stern won’t generate the lift required for planing, it can certainly promote planing.

If you want to know if a sailboat is planing - pay little attention to videos looking aft or shots of the knotmeter.  Look to the bow – because that is where the lift is generated

In the video of the Moore, the water spraying off to the side looks like it has been shot out of a fire hose – indicating a lot of pressure and lift.   So it looks to me like  the Moore is definitely planing.

FWIW we had my old 27 footer cranked up over 14 kts under jib & main going down some waves, but I never considered it planing, just really heavy surfing in that particular case

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