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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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HuronBouy

Rules Question for Start

20 posts in this topic

So I am not complaining or whining; just want to know. Started a race recently and one boat was sitting on the other side of the line (windward). When the start was sounded he dipped his bow below the line and turned and off he went.  Is this O.K. ??

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

So I am not complaining or whining; just want to know. Started a race recently and one boat was sitting on the other side of the line (windward). When the start was sounded he dipped his bow below the line and turned and off he went.  Is this O.K. ??

 

 

 

Yes. (Assuming the prep flag was a P)

There are specific Prep flags that impose additional restrictions. (see rule 30)

 

Whoops misread this.

he has to dip the whole boat behind the line not just the bow.

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No - see the definition of 'start' in the RRS: "A boat starts when, having been entirely on the pre-start side of the starting line at or after her starting signal,...".

Edited to say this assumes you're referring to the actual starting signal.

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27 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

So I am not complaining or whining; just want to know. Started a race recently and one boat was sitting on the other side of the line (windward). When the start was sounded he dipped his bow below the line and turned and off he went.  Is this O.K. ??

 

 

 

Need to get the whole boat across the line to clear the OCS, and the RC will make the call - if they drop the X flag then it was fully cleared.

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JohnMB nailed it. Whole boat must go back.

If you want to try this it's important to realize that an OCS boat returning to the start must stay clear of boats that have already started.

Also note that if you know you're over early you must either go back or retire. A few years ago a boat with a throw-out to burn in a series purposely started OCS so that he could camp on his rival and proceeded to close cover his rival the entire first leg. He was DSQ'd for violating rule 2.

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30 minutes ago, maggie40738 said:

JohnMB nailed it. Whole boat must go back.

If you want to try this it's important to realize that an OCS boat returning to the start must stay clear of boats that have already started.

Also note that if you know you're over early you must either go back or retire. A few years ago a boat with a throw-out to burn in a series purposely started OCS so that he could camp on his rival and proceeded to close cover his rival the entire first leg. He was DSQ'd for violating rule 2.

Please tell us it was a DNE, not a DSQ.

The rival should also have been eligible for redress under rule 62.1d, no?

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11 minutes ago, TJSoCal said:

Please tell us it was a DNE, not a DSQ.

The rival should also have been eligible for redress under rule 62.1d, no?

Yes it was.  Case 34

Redress not discussed in the case.

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6 minutes ago, Brass said:

Yes it was.  Case 34

Redress not discussed in the case.

Thanks. As noted in the case B was entitled to redress, but it sounds like they won the regatta anyway so no reason to ask for it.

Makes me wonder, though - what would appropriate redress have been? Maybe average of scores for her other races in the regatta?

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2 hours ago, TJSoCal said:

Please tell us it was a DNE, not a DSQ.

Although under the current rules, it could be either - at the discretion of the PC.

But in this case, I'm pretty sure the PC would "award" the offender with a DNE.

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1 hour ago, Hobie Anarchy said:

Although under the current rules, it could be either - at the discretion of the PC.

But in this case, I'm pretty sure the PC would "award" the offender with a DNE.

I agree. Given that the offending boat was deliberately burning a throwout, DSQ doesn't really punish them. 

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31 minutes ago, TJSoCal said:

I agree. Given that the offending boat was deliberately burning a throwout, DSQ doesn't really punish them. 

Unless class or regatta rules do not permit a DSQ to be thrown out.

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As an aside,

 

when the flags are right, being on the wrong side before a start in a big fleet is usually the quietest place to be.  None of the frantic shit that's going on below the line.

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2 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

As an aside,

 

when the flags are right, being on the wrong side before a start in a big fleet is usually the quietest place to be.  None of the frantic shit that's going on below the line.

Yeah, maybe, until it gets close to the gun and you have to find a spot in the crowd to dip the line, with no rights a'tall. 

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47 minutes ago, TJSoCal said:

Yeah, maybe, until it gets close to the gun and you have to find a spot in the crowd to dip the line, with no rights a'tall. 

You don't lose any rights by being above the start line prior to the start.

 

(but yes -- getting into the fray with a minute or so to spare is best.)

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7 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

Unless class or regatta rules do not permit a DSQ to be thrown out.

Class rules can't change Appendix A (see RRS 86).

MNA prescriptions, NOR and SIs can.

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5 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

You don't lose any rights by being above the start line prior to the start.

 

(but yes -- getting into the fray with a minute or so to spare is best.)

You're windward of everyone, and if you're still above the line at the gun you have to keep clear of boats that aren't. 

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8 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

You don't lose any rights by being above the start line prior to the start.

You're just windward of everybody else.   :-))

I've managed to pull this off once or twice but only in mixed-fleet handycap races with looong start lines. If the fleet is tough and / or the line is short (or if you get the timing slightly wrong) you're fucked. Don't ask me how I know. 

Most RCs have the I or U flag up anyway. 

 

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Classic dip start is running the line, above it, on it, or over it...finding a gap to DIP your entire hull below prior to or if you have no "flags" flying like the I or X flag when or around the gun and clearing your boat and start kicking ass to windward.  Employed seldom if your start line is stacked with boats and is a large fleet. 

Most boats are late to the line...so take advantage of it.

 

 

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