• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Swimsailor

Pole back! From the FP...

38 posts in this topic

I don't agree with the ed's of SA a lot of the time.  I question the asshattery here quite often.  While SA has provided more than a decade of online fun, it has also provided more than a decade of shitfoolery.  And maybe that's what keeps us coming back.  But I gotta say, Scooter got it right on the FP today.  And credit where credit is due, he does put his money where his mouth is.  

I picked up a 1985 Capri 25 last year here in Utah and in all honesty, I have never had more fun sailing.  I have raced on some pretty awesome boats over the years and at some of the biggest regattas in the US but none of that compares to what I've done over the last year.  From sanding to bottom, rebuilding the trailer, putting up new sails and treating my little crew to dinner, I have bonded with my boat.  She's a part of me now.  I actually can't wait for my winter deck project. 

We took last place in out first race with her this year.  Travelled and were humbled a bit.  Then finished off the summer winning our club's biggest race.  I felt like I had won the fucking America's Cup. 

More than a half dozen non-sailors have gotten their first taste of sailing on my little boat this year.  Others got a refresher of boat life after being away from it for a long time.  And I got to race on Father's Day with my old man, something I've wanted to do for 30 years.   And that what this is all about...actually fucking sailing and racing our boats, or even other people's boats, regardless of what said vessel is.  

I love the big boat stuff.  I still get to sail some rad boats on the coasts.  And I love media coverage of the glamour classes.  But I also know where and what the majority of us sail and I'm stoked to see SA highlight that again on the FP.

Keep slayin' it wherever you may be and whatever you may be sailing on.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuck yeah, I have had the privilege of sailing on some glitzy rides in glamorous locations. I went for the maiden voyage on my self restored shitbox on labour day. I was so excited. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really do appreciate that. There really is something special about getting these old shit boxes up to snuff. There is a magic to these things that can't really be described.I never thought I'd find this even remotely interesting, but man I fucking love the 33!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am having a LMAO moment here - all these old boats were painful shitheaps getting in the way of the real racers until The Ed gets one.

They were cool all along ;)

Enjoy your new ride :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think it's fun to take an older boat, and work it up to beat the modern ones, don't stop at the '80's and '70's... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I am having a LMAO moment here - all these old boats were painful shitheaps getting in the way of the real racers until The Ed gets one.

They were cool all along ;)

Enjoy your new ride :D

Human nature at it's finest.

I hope that sailing is on a bit of an upswing with all this attention on how much fun it is, despite being a lot of work.

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I am having a LMAO moment here - all these old boats were painful shitheaps getting in the way of the real racers until The Ed gets one.

They were cool all along ;)

Enjoy your new ride :D

kind of like his girlfriends! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I am having a LMAO moment here - all these old boats were painful shitheaps getting in the way of the real racers until The Ed gets one.They were

cool all along ;)

They are still painful shitheaps, but that's not mutually exclusive to having been cool all along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nostalgia racing might finally get over here from Europe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Rejected said:

Nostalgia racing might finally get over here from Europe.

I counted something like 45 boats registered for for the 6mR Worlds beginning this Friday in Vancouver.

http://rvan.ca/6mR/regboats.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have to agree! We actually have a few "youngsters" buying old boats and getting into racing in our neighborhood. They're bringing their friends and taking home some silver too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

I don't agree with the ed's of SA a lot of the time.  I question the asshattery here quite often.  While SA has provided more than a decade of online fun, it has also provided more than a decade of shitfoolery.  And maybe that's what keeps us coming back.  But I gotta say, Scooter got it right on the FP today.  And credit where credit is due, he does put his money where his mouth is.  

I picked up a 1985 Capri 25 last year here in Utah and in all honesty, I have never had more fun sailing.  I have raced on some pretty awesome boats over the years and at some of the biggest regattas in the US but none of that compares to what I've done over the last year.  From sanding to bottom, rebuilding the trailer, putting up new sails and treating my little crew to dinner, I have bonded with my boat.  She's a part of me now.  I actually can't wait for my winter deck project. 

We took last place in out first race with her this year.  Travelled and were humbled a bit.  Then finished off the summer winning our club's biggest race.  I felt like I had won the fucking America's Cup. 

More than a half dozen non-sailors have gotten their first taste of sailing on my little boat this year.  Others got a refresher of boat life after being away from it for a long time.  And I got to race on Father's Day with my old man, something I've wanted to do for 30 years.   And that what this is all about...actually fucking sailing and racing our boats, or even other people's boats, regardless of what said vessel is.  

I love the big boat stuff.  I still get to sail some rad boats on the coasts.  And I love media coverage of the glamour classes.  But I also know where and what the majority of us sail and I'm stoked to see SA highlight that again on the FP.

Keep slayin' it wherever you may be and whatever you may be sailing on.  

I also used to have a Capri 25.  Great little boats, inexpensive, got the job done.  But you have to go to Wayzata YC's Star of the North regatta.  We flew in and chartered a boat back in '08, took a 5th place trophy out of 28 boats.  Was such a thril to finally race our Capri 25, Suicidal Bird, in one-design, vs. PHRF here in SoCal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, View from the back said:

I also used to have a Capri 25.  Great little boats, inexpensive, got the job done.  But you have to go to Wayzata YC's Star of the North regatta.  We flew in and chartered a boat back in '08, took a 5th place trophy out of 28 boats.  Was such a thril to finally race our Capri 25, Suicidal Bird, in one-design, vs. PHRF here in SoCal. 

Star of the North is on our list for sure!  

I absolutely love the boat.  Perfect size racer for the Mountain West.  Comfy enough to sleep on overnight.  Big cockpit.  And I can drive with both feet in the water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having just returned from racing early 90s 11-Meter One Designs in Norway and Sweden, I sincerely second "Pole Back" as a way of life! Big kites are awesome, and big kites running DDW are the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why not run ayso kites, we found them fast on point to point races and not hit in NoCal PHRF.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah, ddw with a pole is fun. especially in 30kts of breeze. I was at the same race/regatta as wanda. the day this was filmed was epic. we clocked our top speed of 14kts. The hole we dug with the boat was quite big as well.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When in SD are you going to be that deep?  8kts TWS is their idea of a hurricane.  IIRC, the Ed was screaming at the fish in a race close to 20kts. 

With the negative gone, hell yes, bring on the old girls. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Ian Rogers said:

why not run ayso kites, we found them fast on point to point races and not hit in NoCal PHRF.  

Reaching, I can fly sym or asym and really not notice a difference. DDW I am faster with the pole, but as a cruiser without a racing crew I do asym anyway and just jibe my way DDW without leaving the cockpit :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just look at all the fast 30 ASO boats that can't beat a MUMM 30 around the course. In a light air venue going pole back gives you an even bigger advantage on VMG too IMO. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We run an ASO with a pole, you can still pole back to sail deep. 5 string set up, outside gybes. We tested against our OD fleet aso was faster from 3 knots tws to 32 tws. Over 32 tws it was more about survival and the s3 we found more control over with an out grabber. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Just look at all the fast 30 ASO boats that can't beat a MUMM 30 around the course. In a light air venue going pole back gives you an even bigger advantage on VMG too IMO. 

The Mumm/Farr 30 will go down in history as the last great boat designed for symmetrical kites with a traditional pole. The BeneSlow 36s sucked ass.

Going fast downwind on a sym boat with a pole requires helm, main trim, spin trim, guy trim and pit working in complete harmony.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, techdef said:

Having just returned from racing early 90s 11-Meter One Designs in Norway and Sweden, I sincerely second "Pole Back" as a way of life! Big kites are awesome, and big kites running DDW are the best.

Looking forward to hearing about that trip!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man is that thing going to roll downwind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, RATM said:

The Mumm/Farr 30 will go down in history as the last great boat designed for symmetrical kites with a traditional pole. The BeneSlow 36s sucked ass.

Going fast downwind on a sym boat with a pole requires helm, main trim, spin trim, guy trim and pit working in complete harmony.

The Farr 30 is one of the fastest  30' Sym boats I have sailed against. "Menace" up here is very fast. 

I'm going to sell my Bruce King Zap 26, turn key ready to go, everything is new. Great regatta boat or short (SB2KH) RLC racer. It'll break loose and is quick in light air.
My body and arms can't take it much more. :(
It was fun while I did it and I really liked puttering on the boat too.

New main and old #1. All sails are now new.

rounding2_2_sml.jpg.77c4406538a9014854bb2d0674790036.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Blackadder said:

Looking forward to hearing about that trip!

it was amazing!!! Here's our Ullman kite dominating :-)

IMGP2530sm.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, I recognize that kite. Here's us going downwind last year . Old boats rule!

scooter downwind.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, RATM said:

The Mumm/Farr 30 will go down in history as the last great boat designed for symmetrical kites with a traditional pole. The BeneSlow 36s sucked ass.

Going fast downwind on a sym boat with a pole requires helm, main trim, spin trim, guy trim and pit working in complete harmony.

I do pit now on a X-35 and absolutely love it. Sitting on the rail, getting close to the mark, visualizing all things to remember, getting the message from braintrust: gybe set, set gybe or bear away set - and then JUMP to action! Get the pole up, hoist the kite, get jib down, get tweeker on, adjust pole uphaul and downhaul, ease outhaul and maybe main halyard if light winds, help grind if lots of wind, ease downhaul when showing more kite, switch tweekers during gybes, ease downhaul during gybes, be in charge of pole height, and then maybe there's a second available to clean up the mess in cockpit, and suddenly we're about to reach the other mark again, and then try to fucking remember how much we hoisted the jib last time and how much outhaul (everything has measures, so all I have to to is remember a number), lose the pole and fly, remember tweekers again, hoist jib and drop kite - get back on the rail and BREATHE - it's so busy and choreographed, I seriously LOVE it. There's always details to work on and improve.

Pit in an asym is not anywhere near as much fun.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

Pit in an asym is not anywhere near as much fun.

 

Neither is bow (at least in inshore racing). I grew up priding myself in being able to keep a foredeck organized and working. Wasn't always easy as there are plenty of ways to fuck up a pole boat. I got on a sprit boat for the first time and remember thinking "that's it?" I see sprit boats advertised a lot as "easy crew work" or "tactician's boat." Translation: "we worked hard to reduce the importance of crew skill so you idiots in the back don't have to focus so hard on developing a good team willing to sail with you."

Now I am one of those idiots in the back and doing my best to train my foredeck crew (a high school 420 racer on his first keelboat, as I once was) in the ways of old. Hey, if he winds up on a sprit boat some day I'm sure he'll have fun, but learning how to sail a symmetrical rig is like learning to drive stick - best to do it from the start, and you'll never know when it might come in handy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

I do pit now on a X-35 and absolutely love it. Sitting on the rail, getting close to the mark, visualizing all things to remember, getting the message from braintrust: gybe set, set gybe or bear away set - and then JUMP to action! Get the pole up, hoist the kite, get jib down, get tweeker on, adjust pole uphaul and downhaul, ease outhaul and maybe main halyard if light winds, help grind if lots of wind, ease downhaul when showing more kite, switch tweekers during gybes, ease downhaul during gybes, be in charge of pole height, and then maybe there's a second available to clean up the mess in cockpit, and suddenly we're about to reach the other mark again, and then try to fucking remember how much we hoisted the jib last time and how much outhaul (everything has measures, so all I have to to is remember a number), lose the pole and fly, remember tweekers again, hoist jib and drop kite - get back on the rail and BREATHE - it's so busy and choreographed, I seriously LOVE it. There's always details to work on and improve.

Pit in an asym is not anywhere near as much fun.

 

Poetry.  That was awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if ed's getting back to the 'fast is fun' roots then he also needs a moore for his stable. there's two very good boats available for sale right now. with yearly trips to huntington, santa cruz, the bay and the gorge with his band of hoonigans...what could possibly go wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sisu3360 said:

Neither is bow (at least in inshore racing). I grew up priding myself in being able to keep a foredeck organized and working. Wasn't always easy as there are plenty of ways to fuck up a pole boat. I got on a sprit boat for the first time and remember thinking "that's it?" I see sprit boats advertised a lot as "easy crew work" or "tactician's boat." Translation: "we worked hard to reduce the importance of crew skill so you idiots in the back don't have to focus so hard on developing a good team willing to sail with you."

Now I am one of those idiots in the back and doing my best to train my foredeck crew (a high school 420 racer on his first keelboat, as I once was) in the ways of old. Hey, if he winds up on a sprit boat some day I'm sure he'll have fun, but learning how to sail a symmetrical rig is like learning to drive stick - best to do it from the start, and you'll never know when it might come in handy.

Both pit and bow is less work with asym, especially with a fixed sprit. It doesn't require a lot of skills and it might be a good position for a beginner. With symmetrical, not so much :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Poetry.  That was awesome.

:) ....and on the way back to the marina, I make hotdogs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

Both pit and bow is less work with asym, especially with a fixed sprit. It doesn't require a lot of skills and it might be a good position for a beginner. With symmetrical, not so much :) 

And then there's the guy down in crew pool who can't even keep an "asso" bowman happy for a whole season... Count me thankful for the people who took the time to teach me how to work the spin pole. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0