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    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
badlatitude

Just Another High School Shooting

499 posts in this topic

"An armed society is a polite society"

 

"Multiple injuries are being reported following a shooting at a high school south of Spokane. 

The Spokesman-Review says first responders are at Freeman High School in Rockford responding to the shooting. Radio traffic indicated at least five ambulances and a LifeFlight helicopter have been called to the scene, the newspaper reported. 

The Spokesman-Review reports five people have been shot and one victim has died. 

A suspect has been taken into custody, according to newspaper."

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/spokane-schools-locked-down-following-reports-of-shooting/?utm_source=The+Seattle+Times&utm_campaign=2fbe963351-Alert_BREAKING%3A_Multiple_injuries_reported_followi

 

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Bad Latte, this is a terrible tragedy.  The HS kid probably shouldn't have access to guns.  In fact I think its highly likely the kid was underage and therefore unable to legally purchase a gun.  And last I checked its illegal to bring a gun to a HS.  

So knowing the list of laws the kid broke just to have the gun and bring it to school - never mind the shooting itself - what specific steps do you recommend we do to stop a future incident like occurring?  What new legislation do we need?  

Registration?  Licensing?  Training?  Those are the things most commonly thrown out there by the grabbers?  Would any of those have stopped the shooting?

Honestly, I would like to know what you would propose to stem this?  Or is this just a the usual gun grabber circle jerk hand-wringing thread that occurs after every shooting so you can whine about the bad tools out there?  

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1 minute ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Bad Latte, this is a terrible tragedy.  The HS kid probably shouldn't have access to guns.  In fact I think its highly likely the kid was underage and therefore unable to legally purchase a gun.  And last I checked its illegal to bring a gun to a HS.  

So knowing the list of laws the kid broke just to have the gun and bring it to school - never mind the shooting itself - what specific steps do you recommend we do to stop a future incident like occurring?  What new legislation do we need?  

Registration?  Licensing?  Training?  Those are the things most commonly thrown out there by the grabbers?  Would any of those have stopped the shooting?

Honestly, I would like to know what you would propose to stem this?  Or is this just a the usual gun grabber circle jerk hand-wringing thread that occurs after every shooting so you can whine about the bad tools out there?  

wow, the dead kid ain't even cold yet.

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3 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Bad Latte, this is a terrible tragedy.  The HS kid probably shouldn't have access to guns.  In fact I think its highly likely the kid was underage and therefore unable to legally purchase a gun.  And last I checked its illegal to bring a gun to a HS.  

So knowing the list of laws the kid broke just to have the gun and bring it to school - never mind the shooting itself - what specific steps do you recommend we do to stop a future incident like occurring?  What new legislation do we need?  

Registration?  Licensing?  Training?  Those are the things most commonly thrown out there by the grabbers?  Would any of those have stopped the shooting?

Honestly, I would like to know what you would propose to stem this?  Or is this just a the usual gun grabber circle jerk hand-wringing thread that occurs after every shooting so you can whine about the bad tools out there?  

 

Just look at the rest of the world where high school shootings aren't a regular occurrence and do what they do?

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Just now, Shootist Jeff said:

Bad Latte, this is a terrible tragedy.  The HS kid probably shouldn't have access to guns.  In fact I think its highly likely the kid was underage and therefore unable to legally purchase a gun.  And last I checked its illegal to bring a gun to a HS.  

So knowing the list of laws the kid broke just to have the gun and bring it to school - never mind the shooting itself - what specific steps do you recommend we do to stop a future incident like occurring?  What new legislation do we need?  

Registration?  Licensing?  Training?  Those are the things most commonly thrown out there by the grabbers?  Would any of those have stopped the shooting?

Honestly, I would like to know what you would propose to stem this?  Or is this just a the usual gun grabber circle jerk hand-wringing thread that occurs after every shooting so you can whine about the bad tools out there?  

You are right in that there is nothing that can be done.  We live in a gun dystopia.  That's why I've said we should arm all teachers- with training, of course.  

Arm all teachers. Give kids bullet proof back packs.  That's about all there is to do. 

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Just now, Terrorvision said:

 

Just look at the rest of the world where high school shootings aren't a regular occurrence and do what they do?

thinky.w710.h473.jpg

 

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18 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Bad Latte, this is a terrible tragedy.  The HS kid probably shouldn't have access to guns.  In fact I think its highly likely the kid was underage and therefore unable to legally purchase a gun.  And last I checked its illegal to bring a gun to a HS.  

So knowing the list of laws the kid broke just to have the gun and bring it to school - never mind the shooting itself - what specific steps do you recommend we do to stop a future incident like occurring?  What new legislation do we need?  

Registration?  Licensing?  Training?  Those are the things most commonly thrown out there by the grabbers?  Would any of those have stopped the shooting?

Honestly, I would like to know what you would propose to stem this?  Or is this just a the usual gun grabber circle jerk hand-wringing thread that occurs after every shooting so you can whine about the bad tools out there?  

Just spitballing here but not having an ocean of guns freely available to anyone who wants one works quite well here.

I can't remember the last school shooting we had here but they are so common in the States that we don't even hear about the majority of them on the news anymore.

But I know that such proven and obvious common sense escapes the gunnies so.......

Just get used to it - it's your future and it's only going to get worse.

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We don't even know who the shooter is or what his motivations were. How can we possibly discuss  cause-and-effect ??

 

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16 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Registration would stop this.

That's exactly what we're moving toward. Foo-tits Jeff and his crowd have run out of excuses, we had 8 people killed in a shooting in Dallas last week, and the hurricane moved it to the back page, they are so commonplace the media doesn't look twice anymore. The rest of America is getting tired of it and when that happens, things will happen.

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Registration is 100% 2nd amend friendly.

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1 minute ago, Spatial Ed said:

Registration is 100% 2nd amend friendly.

Not according to Tom, he once gave the cold dead fingers speech over his rejection of that idea.

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It's interesting to note not one mention of concern for the people impacted by this needless tragedy, ya bunch of callous cunts.  

 

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4 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

It's interesting to note not one mention of concern for the people impacted by this needless tragedy, ya bunch of callous cunts.  

 

It's interesting to note your own lack of concern while knocking people for their lack of concern.

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1 hour ago, Spatial Ed said:

Registration would stop this.

registration and Liability. If,as Jeffie says, that the kid got the gun illegally, hold the legal owner liable. Civilly and criminally.

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3 hours ago, Clove Hitch said:

You are right in that there is nothing that can be done.  We live in a gun dystopia.  That's why I've said we should arm all teachers- with training, of course.  

Arm all teachers. Give kids bullet proof back packs.  That's about all there is to do. 

As long as there are lots of guns, the handful of psychopaths are going to find them I guess.

But I saw something kind of neat at my town's police station a couple days ago ...

29wvorc.jpg

 

They won't help with school shootings, and they're too anemic to discourage an older kid with even a basic tool, and a lot of owners won't use them because they want to keep their gun ready for the hypothetical home invader that almost never actually exists ... BUT that they're free is a good thing, they probably distributed a few thousand of these, maybe a few tens of thousands, I bet some childrens' lives are saved.

I think the best way to distribute these things -- better than the free box at the police station -- is to send them to gun clubs, encourage the members to take a couple with them, throw them in the glove box, and give them away to anyone they meet who needs a half-assed way to secure their gun. (Better than nothing, anyway.) At least gun owners trust other gun owners to give them a lock.

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3 hours ago, Terrorvision said:

 

Just look at the rest of the world where high school shootings aren't a regular occurrence and do what they do?

High school shootings aren't a regular occurrence here.

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Those poor kids. One warped pos causes a whole school of damaged kids. 

Strict liability. Kid gets daddy's gun and goes on a rampage, tough shit. Daddy goes to jail too and assets are liquidated to compensate victims and pay for prosecution and incarceration. He loses everything and gets what the victim(s) didn't: a chance to start over. 

Sell your gun to someone who kills with it?  Same thing. 

Make people responsible. 

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35 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

High school shootings aren't a regular occurrence here.

Seems commonplace to me.

"There have been 142 school shootings in the US since the Sandy Hook shooting in 2012, a near average of one a week, according to data compiled by Mass Shooting Tracker."http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/1/142-school-shootings-sandy-hook-massacre-newtown-c/

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3 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

It's interesting to note not one mention of concern for the people impacted by this needless tragedy, ya bunch of callous cunts. 

I suspect people have become numb to it long since - it's just more of the same.

The callous cunts are the gunnies who place more importance on zero restrictions on their deadly toys than thousands of dead people every year and don't give a shit that all those dead kids are a direct fallout from it.

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1 hour ago, Rockdog said:

High school shootings aren't a regular occurrence here.

Are you brain damaged?

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Are you brain damaged?

That was a silly question.

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I can't imagine going back to school after something like that and pretending it is business as usual. Some places should be safe. Jesus Christ, a building full of teenagers. 

Thoughts and prayers for those affected. 

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Those poor kids. One warped pos causes a whole school of damaged kids. 

Strict liability. Kid gets daddy's gun and goes on a rampage, tough shit. Daddy goes to jail too and assets are liquidated to compensate victims and pay for prosecution and incarceration. He loses everything and gets what the victim(s) didn't: a chance to start over. 

Sell your gun to someone who kills with it?  Same thing. 

Make people responsible. 

a start

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4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

It's interesting to note not one mention of concern for the people impacted by this needless tragedy, ya bunch of callous cunts.  

 

I'm humbled, this one has real character. it must be his political views.

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6 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Bad Latte, this is a terrible tragedy.  The HS kid probably shouldn't have access to guns.  In fact I think its highly likely the kid was underage and therefore unable to legally purchase a gun.  And last I checked its illegal to bring a gun to a HS.  

So knowing the list of laws the kid broke just to have the gun and bring it to school - never mind the shooting itself - what specific steps do you recommend we do to stop a future incident like occurring?  What new legislation do we need?  

Registration?  Licensing?  Training?  Those are the things most commonly thrown out there by the grabbers?  Would any of those have stopped the shooting?

Honestly, I would like to know what you would propose to stem this?  Or is this just a the usual gun grabber circle jerk hand-wringing thread that occurs after every shooting so you can whine about the bad tools out there?  

to the weapons advocate: less guns, less rationalizing.

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3 hours ago, Rockdog said:

High school shootings aren't a regular occurrence here.

How many is too much for you?

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5 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

Registration is 100% 2nd amend friendly.

No it is not.  It infringes. If you want to infringe advocate for a new amendment that allows a scintilla of infringement 

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5 hours ago, badlatitude said:

It's interesting to note your own lack of concern while knocking people for their lack of concern.

I bet that impact hurt like hell. 

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5 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

No it is not.  It infringes. If you want to infringe advocate for a new amendment that allows a scintilla of infringement 

What part of well regulated do you need to be educated on?

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6 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

What part of well regulated do you need to be educated on?

Oh ffs Special, for the 14th time, the phrase "well regulated" as used in the 2A does not mean what you think it means.

You could use some education yourself.

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6 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

Registration would stop this.

How?

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2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

 

Sell your gun to someone who kills with it?  Same thing. 

Make people responsible. 

Hold on there Ace, if I sell my car to someone where does my liability stop?

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19 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

What part of well regulated do you need to be educated on?

Well Regulated has no meaning for the true believers.

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47 minutes ago, Moderate said:

Hold on there Ace, if I sell my car to someone where does my liability stop?

If you turn over the keys to a drunk high on acid? Probably not.

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8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So knowing the list of laws the kid broke just to have the gun and bring it to school - never mind the shooting itself - what specific steps do you recommend we do to stop a future incident like occurring?  What new legislation do we need? 

Handguns locked up and used by minor only in the presence of an adult for starters.

 

  • Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into; or trigger locks
  • Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.

Here, use these as a template... http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm

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17 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

If you turn over the keys to a drunk high on acid? Probably not.

How about if someone steals my car

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5 minutes ago, By the lee said:

Handguns locked up and used by minor only in the presence of an adult for starters.

 

  • Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is difficult to break into; or trigger locks
  • Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.

Here, use these as a template... http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm

Should these same standards be applied to cars and trucks?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

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The dead kid was the shooter's best friend who approached the shooter and asked him to hand over the gun.  

Its  a gun culture over here.  Local mall filled with kids grieving.

what a mess.  There's talk of open carry tomorrow.  I'm staying indoors if I can.

believe what you want.  A lot of tears.

crazy shit

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5 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

You should practice your trolling until it becomes less obvious.

You should answer the question.

Are those people in Nice less dead because no one used a gun?

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7 minutes ago, Moderate said:

You should answer the question.

Are those people in Nice less dead because no one used a gun?

And get into the middle of a troll? not on your life.

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1 hour ago, Dorado said:

Oh ffs Special, for the 14th time, the phrase "well regulated" as used in the 2A does not mean what you think it means.

You could use some education yourself.

BULLSHIT. Let's see your sources, Dorado. 

Quote

, the phrase "well regulated" as used in the 2A

 

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56 minutes ago, Amati said:

 There's talk of open carry tomorrow.

Definitely time to increase your personal arsenals so you'll be safe.

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48 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

And get into the middle of a troll? not on your life.

He doesn't even qualify as a troll.

Just a common or garden variety fool.

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2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

No it is not.  It infringes. If you want to infringe advocate for a new amendment that allows a scintilla of infringement 

It's an amendment you dopey cunt, that means it has been amended in the past and can be amended again.

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

The dead kid was the shooter's best friend who approached the shooter and asked him to hand over the gun.  

Its  a gun culture over here.  Local mall filled with kids grieving.

what a mess.  There's talk of open carry tomorrow.  I'm staying indoors if I can.

believe what you want.  A lot of tears.

crazy shit

Stay safe

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4 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

I can't imagine going back to school after something like that and pretending it is business as usual. Some places should be safe. Jesus Christ, a building full of teenagers. 

Thoughts and prayers for those affected. 

Same. As someone from a country where the rate of school shootings are measure in decades, not weeks, the idea of someone opening fire in a school kind of shocks me to the core. The outpouring of grief at my son's high school when one of the kids passed on in a car accident was bad enough, one of their own coming in and firing on them would have to be gut-wrenching - both from the "how could this happen" element and the loss of those friends they saw daily through a sick act of violence. 

 

4 hours ago, 3to1 said:

I'm humbled, this one has real character. it must be his political views.

I'm neither surprised nor humbled. The man came into the thread to complain about no-one expressing concern and left without expressing concern. Pretty much the kind of concern trolling I've come to expect from these forums whenever children are the target of shooting in the US.

I agree with you on one thing however - it does look like it might have something to do with his political views and those he chose to direct his criticism at.

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55 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

BULLSHIT. Let's see your sources, Dorado. 

 

Fuck off Joe

Nobody's talking to you

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I was an engineer for 30yrs and have taught middle/high school math for the past five.  I own handguns and have a carry license.

The idea of arming teachers is the dumbest thing I have ever possibly heard.  Schools have to remain the most possible safe haven.  Plus, I am a near 60yo guy and despite my experience with guns, if students thought I was carrying and wanted my gun, they could overpower me in a heartbeat; I stoop to help a student, three jump me...get real.  

I live alone and don't lock my guns up to the letter of the law.  What I do is not tell everyone I meet that I own guns.  They are out of sight when anyone is in my place.  The locks I have could be snipped with about 5secs effort by anyone with the gumption to steal them.

I see this as a troubled kid who should not have had access to a gun.  It happens too often and if I had kids in the house, I would probably get rid of my guns (dating a woman with kids).  Sad.  Tragic.  The best friend deserves a special place in Heaven for his efforts.  

Sad.   

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4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

If you turn over the keys to a drunk high on acid? Probably not.

Strict liability should apply to someone who sells their car to a Nazi, who runs it into a crowd of people protesting fascism. Make it harder for American Nazis to get cars, not easier, and hold people responsible for providing them with weapons. Strict liability is the answer. 

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8 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Strict liability should apply to someone who sells their car to a Nazi, who runs it into a crowd of people protesting fascism. Make it harder for American Nazis to get cars, not easier, and hold people responsible for providing them with weapons. Strict liability is the answer. 

Even for German cars?

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5 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

What part of well regulated do you need to be educated on?

The punctuation clearly makes the shall not be infringed cover all situstions 

and

whenever there is doubt about the existence of freedom, I automatically side with the interpretation allowing the very most freedom. 

 

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3 hours ago, Terrorvision said:

It's an amendment you dopey cunt, that means it has been amended in the past and can be amended again.

WTF?? I suggested those who wish to amend should campaign to amend and you replied with this gibberish?? 

 

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8 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

The punctuation clearly makes the shall not be infringed cover all situstions 

 

Do you think that punctuation trumps historical context? 

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I think this thread should stay focussed on the title.  Gun discussions have plenty of outlets.  

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3 hours ago, Dorado said:

Fuck off Joe

Nobody's talking to you

Ah, a superior kinda guy. I like that. Tell us about well regulated, whenever you can, Dorado. Tell us why we needed Von Steuben to build discipline within our volunteer forces.

You seem superior, but as poorly informed this week as last week. Well regulated was the concept of citizen participation. It applied to many aspects of English and Colonial life, including the militia. Well regulated Colonial militias fought throughout the French and Indian War. The militias in Lexington were proud of their training one year before conflict. Poorly performing militias affected the Militia Act of 1792 towards better standards of discipline.

Quote

The Constitutional Significance of a “Well-Regulated Militia” Patrick J. Charles

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228127188_The_Constitutional_Significance_of_a_'Well-Regulated_Militia'_Asserted_and_Proven_with_Commentary_on_the_Future_of_Second_Amendment_Jurisprudence

 (see p55) Unfortunately, similar to the problems faced by England a century prior, the ideology of a “well-regulated militia” was too difficult to realize.428  It should be remembered that just as the ink on the Constitution was drying the Framers were already disputing the meaning and scope of its provisions.429  This was especially true with the establishment of a “well-regulated militia.”  Certainly, the 1792 National Militia Act was a valiant attempt to accomplish an important constitutional end.430  However, problems immediately surfaced with carrying out its provisions on a national scale.431  While some states were able to execute and balance the needs of a national and local militia, others could not even adequately arm its members.432

 

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17 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

I think this thread should stay focussed on the title.  Gun discussions have plenty of outlets.  

Just another high school shooting.

Hard to keep gun regulations out of the discussion. The teenage shooter walked in there with SEVERAL guns. Not a well-regulated situation. 

 

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1 minute ago, jocal505 said:

Just another high school shooting.

Hard to keep gun regulations out of the discussion. The teenage shooter walked in there with SEVERAL guns. Not a well-regulated situation. 

Gun regulations are in place, it's on his parent(s) or whoever the gun was registered to that failed.  

I'll just put you on ignore if you don't get that.  

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13 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

What new legislation do we need?

Same as always.

DO SOMETHING will once again mean BAN ORDINARY .22's AS ASSAULT WEAPONS

The grabbers propose the same solution every time a convenient shooting happens. Those who don't just sit back and say DO SOMETHING and then have no objection when other grabbers propose... the same fucking thing again.

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11 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

 it's on his parent(s) or whoever the gun was registered to that failed.  

I'll just put you on ignore if you don't get that.  

You seem pretty touchy. I probably don't hold your beliefs.

Quote

Gun regulations are in place,

In Idaho, and very short click from Spokane, gun regulations suck. 

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1 minute ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Same as always.

DO SOMETHING will once again mean BAN ORDINARY .22's AS ASSAULT WEAPONS

The grabbers propose the same solution every time a convenient shooting happens. Those who don't just sit back and say DO SOMETHING and then have no objection when other grabbers propose... the same fucking thing again.

The imperfect efforts seem to be working okay. The courts have been kind to the Gun Violence Prevention movement, and considerate of public safety.

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9 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

 

You seem pretty touchy. I probably don't hold your beliefs.

In Idaho, and very short click from Spokane, gun regulations suck.

Idaho consistently has a lower murder rate than Washington.

High taxes in Seattle on the exercise of our rights suck, especially for poor people. But fuck poor people. If they were smart enough to own guns, they wouldn't be poor!

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If you have to register your gun, you'd be amazed at how responsible gun owners get with them.

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2 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

If you have to register your gun, you'd be amazed at how responsible gun owners get with them.

On 12/13/2013 at 7:27 AM, Uncooperative Tom said:

Furthermore, the police also aren’t using the registration records to solve crimes. “Lt. Shelton cannot recall any specific instance where registration records were used to determine who committed a crime,” except for possession offenses,” the plaintiffs wrote.

 

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16 hours ago, Raz'r said:

wow, the dead kid ain't even cold yet.

Acting quickly to politically exploit a convenient shooting is essential. Same as when you did it.

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15 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

Registration is 100% 2nd amend friendly.

I don't think so. I think that our friend Billy Backstay being among the last generation in his state to legally own Mini-14's with standard capacity magazines isn't second amendment friendly, for example.

The closed registries in Washington DC and Chicago were found to be second amendment unfriendly by the Supreme Court.

To register a scary assault weapon like the .22 pictured above in New Jersey, all you have to do is convince a court that it's in the public interest for you to have something so dangerous. To me this sounds a lot like if someone said, "To get an abortion in Oklahoma, all you have to do is convince a court that it's in the public interest for you to do so." (Oh, and good luck with NJ and OK judges to those who wish to exercise rights.)

Lots of registries have characteristics that seem distinctly unfriendly to me. That's why I'm Uncooperative and will never register any gun.

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11 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

I can't imagine going back to school after something like that and pretending it is business as usual. Some places should be safe. Jesus Christ, a building full of teenagers. 

Thoughts and prayers for those affected. 

^^^ This is exactly what we should be thinking and focusing on right now.  Well said Bus - my heart goes out to everyone in that community, especially to the families of those hurt by this needless tragedy. 

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9 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

^^^ This is exactly what we should be thinking and focusing on right now.  Well said Bus - my heart goes out to everyone in that community, especially to the families of those hurt by this needless tragedy. 

Do you have the same focus when a muslim terrorist attacks a nightclub full of people?  Or does your mind wander to placing blame and seeking solutions?

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42 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Do you have the same focus when a muslim terrorist attacks a nightclub full of people?  Or does your mind wander to placing blame and seeking solutions?

Depends on who was in the nightclub, the ethnicity and intentions of the shooters, doesn't it?   

After seeing to the victims, wouldn't you agree that establishing blame in the interest of preventing additional attacks, and using that information to understand why something happened and focusing that understanding towards seeking solutions is always appropriate?  I guess the answer to that is dependent upon whether or not you care enough to work for a real solution, or merely want to feel good about yourself by being able to say that you supported doing something now - so people feel better. 

 

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10 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Depends on who was in the nightclub, the ethnicity and intentions of the shooters, doesn't it?   

After seeing to the victims, wouldn't you agree that establishing blame in the interest of preventing additional attacks, and using that information to understand why something happened and focusing that understanding towards seeking solutions is always appropriate?  I guess the answer to that is dependent upon whether or not you care enough to work for a real solution, or merely want to feel good about yourself by being able to say that you supported doing something now - so people feel better. 

 

If this high school shooter were Muslim, we could talk about controlling Muslims.  But if he's just an average white kid with access to his parents guns, that's taboo and insensitive.

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5 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Even for German cars?

Well played.

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11 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

If this high school shooter were Muslim, we could talk about controlling Muslims.  But if he's just an average white kid with access to his parents guns, that's taboo and insensitive.

Nope - what's insensitive is diving into the political bullshit with no mention of a thought for the victims.  That it was a white kid shooting is irrelevant, and if he had political leanings (at the middle school?  Doubt that that's pertinent) then those should be considered as well.  Someone claiming an action on behalf of an organization warrants scrutiny of that organization.   Don't know what thread you're trying to pull in this discussion - or is it simply speciousness? 

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Nope - what's insensitive is diving into the political bullshit with no mention of a thought for the victims.  That it was a white kid shooting is irrelevant, and if he had political leanings (at the middle school?  Doubt that that's pertinent) then those should be considered as well.  Someone claiming an action on behalf of an organization warrants scrutiny of that organization.   Don't know what thread you're trying to pull in this discussion - or is it simply speciousness? 

I don't see your Faux-rage against the first person to go political. Whys that?

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Acting quickly to politically exploit a convenient shooting is essential. Same as when you did it.

Ok, I'll bite. What's political about this?

"What kind of sick f$+# hits an elementary school"

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17 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I don't see your Faux-rage against the first person to go political. Whys that?

Nothin' faux about it - and BL *was* the 1st person to do so.  What was his opening statement?  (it's at the top of the thread)   Go piss up a rope Flash - you know I'm right on this and if that bothers you - it's simply too bad. 

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5 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Idaho consistently has a lower murder rate than Washington.

High taxes in Seattle on the exercise of our rights suck, especially for poor people. But fuck poor people. If they were smart enough to own guns, they wouldn't be poor!

http://theipti.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/covariance.pdf

there's no easy answer.  Spokane is so tax cheap that there's no property crime division in the city police department.  Guess where villains travel to when it's time for some inventory?  

Gun ownership, too, is weird here- it's either 20 or 30 guns or none.  And the idea of gun security is looked on with derision- it's amazing how many houses have guns lying about.  And are proud of it.  On the other hand, a lot of these guys love goading liberals.  The countryside is just as schizophrenic- you really don't know who you're talking to.  That, and gun theft is just as rampant as other property theft. So there are a lot of stolen guns floating about, and no recovery.  But hey! Our taxes are low low low!  In a lot of ways, Idaho has more onerous taxes.

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This must be a new tactic by gun lovers, change the subject to the victims, as if they ever gave a shit before, and deflect. The subject of the thread is a current news event, feel free to discuss it.

Go ahead, be faux-outraged, when I have time I'll search through threads and find how many times gun lovers cried for the victims at the beginning of a thread.

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4 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

 

^^^ More disinformation from Tom. Sad.

Tom makes the poorly supported claim that gun registration has never solved a crime. Many others join him in that obvious falsehood.

Tom's link in the WA Times (LOL). The article goes to Heller II, which ruled against Tom.

Heller II requires Dick Heller to register his guns every three years. Heller III requires fingerprints. Cops love that shit.

Quote

In a lengthy and well-reasoned decision released earlier today, the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia upheld every aspect of D.C.’s comprehensive firearms registration program. The court found that the challenged laws, which require residents to register all firearms with local authorities, were sufficiently related to the District’s goals of ensuring public safety and protecting District police. The court noted that the testimony of four expert witnesses for the District provided enough evidence showing the registration system to be an important law enforcement tool that would save lives by preventing criminals from obtaining firearms.

http://smartgunlaws.org/big-second-amendment-victory-district-court-upholds-of-d-c-firearms-registration-law/

 

 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Nothin' faux about it - and BL *was* the 1st person to do so.  What was his opening statement?  (it's at the top of the thread)   Go piss up a rope Flash - you know I'm right on this and if that bothers you - it's simply too bad. 

what's political about the statement? I've thought we're heard that more guns makes us safer?

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19 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

Registration would stop this.

Afraid not, Spatial. No magic bullet will happen. But gun registration would clean up a lot of casual gun transfer behavior.

From Heller II, the source of Toms brief:

Quote

,,, “[a]lthough the various registration requirements at issue will not prevent all criminals from obtaining firearms, it surely will prevent some from doing so. That is enough.”

 

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19 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

Registration would stop this.

How?  How would registration have stopped this kid from getting this weapon?

It sounds like if we bothered to pay half as much attention to bullying and mental health issues as we do toolz, this might never have happened.

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7 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Strict liability should apply to someone who sells their car to a Nazi, who runs it into a crowd of people protesting fascism. Make it harder for American Nazis to get cars, not easier, and hold people responsible for providing them with weapons. Strict liability is the answer. 

I remember reading years ago about a guy who sold a crazy hot muscle car to a kid as his first car.

The predictable happened and the kid ended up in a wheelchair.

The seller lost a huge lawsuit over it - presumably some sort of "duty of care" thing.

Caveat Emptor only goes so far in a civilized society.

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7 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

The punctuation clearly makes the shall not be infringed cover all situstions 

and

whenever there is doubt about the existence of freedom, I automatically side with the interpretation allowing the very most freedom. 

 

Including the freedom to shoot up schools?

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3 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

^^^ This is exactly what we should be thinking and focusing on right now.  Well said Bus - my heart goes out to everyone in that community, especially to the families of those hurt by this needless tragedy. 

Yeah - just don't do anything that might prevent it in future.

Crocodile tears.

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7 hours ago, jocal505 said:

Do you think that punctuation trumps historical context? 

I do not believe they conflict 

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41 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah - just don't do anything that might prevent it in future.

Crocodile tears.

Don't drown in those tears - there's indeed a time to rationally discuss why it happened and what to do to prevent future occurrences - minutes/hours after the event, when nobody knows anything?  Such discussions are simply speculative posturing to further a preconceived point, as nobody knows enough about anything at that point to have a rational discussion.   

 

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2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Don't drown in those tears - there's indeed a time to rationally discuss why it happened and what to do to prevent future occurrences - minutes/hours after the event, when nobody knows anything?  Such discussions are simply speculative posturing to further a preconceived point, as nobody knows enough about anything at that point to have a rational discussion.   

 

i think we have plenty of cases with which to discuss policy. But we won't.

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47 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Including the freedom to shoot up schools?

Certainly 

however.., 

There are numerous Constitutional laws in place which would be violated by shooting a gun in or at a school and especially at its inhabitants. 

 

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

i think we have plenty of cases with which to discuss policy. But we won't.

I think that there are many here who are willing to entertain a rational discussion - but, there are many who also simply want to scream and shout that everyone who disagrees with them is a willful, evil idiot.  The latter approach isn't very conducive to civil conversation, wouldn't you agree? 

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13 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think that there are many here who are willing to entertain a rational discussion - but, there are many who also simply want to scream and shout that everyone who disagrees with them is a willful, evil idiot.  The latter approach isn't very conducive to civil conversation, wouldn't you agree? 

Imagine!

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11 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

 

 

I'm neither surprised nor humbled. The man came into the thread to complain about no-one expressing concern and left without expressing concern. Pretty much the kind of concern trolling I've come to expect from these forums whenever children are the target of shooting in the US.

I agree with you on one thing however - it does look like it might have something to do with his political views and those he chose to direct his criticism at.

the whole post was sarcasm.

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:
4 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Acting quickly to politically exploit a convenient shooting is essential. Same as when you did it.

Ok, I'll bite. What's political about this?

"What kind of sick f$+# hits an elementary school"

The topic itself must be political. Or maybe BadLat got lost on the way to GA, where we can all agree that it's terrible to shoot kids.

It's here for some reason or other and "it's terrible to shoot kids" isn't a political topic so it must be some other.

Let's not beat around the bush. The reason is the same as always. It's a convenient shooting with which to push for more gun bans and confiscation programs.

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1 minute ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The topic itself must be political. Or maybe BadLat got lost on the way to GA, where we can all agree that it's terrible to shoot kids.

It's here for some reason or other and "it's terrible to shoot kids" isn't a political topic so it must be some other.

Let's not beat around the bush. The reason is the same as always. It's a convenient shooting with which to push for more gun bans and confiscation programs.     arming all school staff and giving children bullet proof book bags

Fixed!

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4 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The topic itself must be political. Or maybe BadLat got lost on the way to GA, where we can all agree that it's terrible to shoot kids.

It's here for some reason or other and "it's terrible to shoot kids" isn't a political topic so it must be some other.

Let's not beat around the bush. The reason is the same as always. It's a convenient shooting with which to push for more gun bans and confiscation programs.

no - it's a recognition that we have a problem. Sorry it's inconvenient for you.  It's more inconvenient for the families impacted. So I can't really feel that sorry for you.

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2 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:
6 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The topic itself must be political. Or maybe BadLat got lost on the way to GA, where we can all agree that it's terrible to shoot kids.

It's here for some reason or other and "it's terrible to shoot kids" isn't a political topic so it must be some other.

Let's not beat around the bush. The reason is the same as always. It's a convenient shooting with which to push for more gun bans and confiscation programs.     arming all school staff and giving children bullet proof book bags

Fixed!

Have you seen that advocated by any sane people here? Or proposed by any elected representatives?

What's proposed over and over is more gun bans. That's DOING SOMETHING.

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