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badlatitude

Just Another High School Shooting

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

no - it's a recognition that we have a problem. Sorry it's inconvenient for you.  It's more inconvenient for the families impacted. So I can't really feel that sorry for you.

OK, if it's a political problem, what's a political solution?

DO SOMETHING?

I've already linked to what actually gets proposed over and over by actual elected representatives. I think those political topics worthy of discussion, though almost no FL voters here seem to have any comments about the gun ban proposed here in response to the last convenient shooting.

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3 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Have you seen that advocated by any sane people here? Or proposed by any elected representatives?

What's proposed over and over is more gun bans. That's DOING SOMETHING.

what's proposed is registration and liability. Which you someone conflate into a "Gun Ban"

You have a  problem with English....

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

How?  How would registration have stopped this kid from getting this weapon?

It sounds like if we bothered to pay half as much attention to bullying and mental health issues as we do toolz, this might never have happened.

I simply cannot debate this with you since you didn't first acknowledge the pain and suffering of the victims.  Once you have acknowledged that and we've waiting the appropriate waiting period, we can engage.  Please show some respect.

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

I do not believe they conflict 

Please comment further. Explain why Washington  had the Colonies disarm the Torries, then Washington disarmed Shays' followers. A handful of years later the Bill of Rights and the Militia Act of 1792 were both passed, and gun confiscation continued, as applied to whiskey tax rebels and those who refused loyalty oaths.

This sounds just like rampant infringement on individual gun rights at the hands of the FF, Gouv.

The strong historical context suggests that militia guns were not to be infringed upon in favor of XYZ's standing army. Today's concerns don't even mirror that context.

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55 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The topic itself must be political. Or maybe BadLat got lost on the way to GA, where we can all agree that it's terrible to shoot kids.

It's here for some reason or other and "it's terrible to shoot kids" isn't a political topic so it must be some other.

Let's not beat around the bush. The reason is the same as always. It's a convenient shooting with which to push for more gun bans and confiscation programs.

Here we go. Big Tom is the victim, again. A victim of Bad Lat's thread. (And gun extremists are victims of a school shooting in Spokane.) Good ol' Jeffie is fabricating legislation. While Guy stalls like a shitty rudder. YCMTSU. 

 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

 there's indeed a time to rationally discuss why it happened and what to do to prevent future occurrences - minutes/hours after the event, when nobody knows anything?  Such discussions are simply speculative posturing to further a preconceived point, as nobody knows enough about anything at that point to have a rational discussion.  

It happened because of your insane gun culture

Nothing else to discuss.

However I'm sure the gunnies will come back with their usual bullshit rationalizations about "tools" etc. And when all else fails they can always fall back on "Fuck You - 2A"

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:
22 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

Registration would stop this.

How?  How would registration have stopped this kid from getting this weapon?

It sounds like if we bothered to pay half as much attention to bullying and mental health issues as we do toolz, this might never have happened.

This continues to really bug me.  Every time something like this happens, registration is always trotted out as the fucking end-all, be-all of our savior from this sort of shit.  

Its such BS!  Registration would not have stopped this anymore than registration would have stopped:

Newtown, Va Tech, Charleston, Aurora, Orlando, Tucson, and on and on.....  

Jeff:  Alex, I'll take gun registration for $1000

Alex Trebek:  The Jeopardy Daily double answer is:  "Zero and Zero"

Jeff:  What is the number of mass shootings that registration would have "prevented"?  And what is the number of mass shootings that went unsolved because of lack of registration?

Alex Trebek:  "Jeff, that is correct.  You have won the daily double and you now lead the game by over $6900.  Congratulations."

 

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9 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

This continues to really bug me.  Every time something like this happens, registration is always trotted out as the fucking end-all, be-all of our savior from this sort of shit.  

Its such BS!  Registration would not have stopped this anymore than registration would have stopped:

Newtown, Va Tech, Charleston, Aurora, Orlando, Tucson, and on and on.....  

Jeff:  Alex, I'll take gun registration for $1000

Alex Trebek:  The Jeopardy Daily double answer is:  "Zero and Zero"

Jeff:  What is the number of mass shootings that registration would have "prevented"?  And what is the number of mass shootings that went unsolved because of lack of registration?

Alex Trebek:  "Jeff, that is correct.  You have won the daily double and you now lead the game by over $6900.  Congratulations."

 

Sorry, no magic bullets will happen. Just read Heller II to calm yourself down. 

Quote

The court brushed aside the gun lobby’s argument that the registration system was invalid because it would be circumvented by criminals. Stating that the argument made “little sense” and would “invalidate any and all gun laws,”  the court emphasized that “[a]lthough the various registration requirements at issue will not prevent all criminals from obtaining firearms, it surely will prevent some from doing so. That is enough.”

http://smartgunlaws.org/big-second-amendment-victory-district-court-upholds-of-d-c-firearms-registration-law/

 

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8 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

It happened because of your insane gun culture

Nothing else to discuss.

However I'm sure the gunnies will come back with their usual bullshit rationalizations about "tools" etc. And when all else fails they can always fall back on "Fuck You - 2A"

I disagree with your premise - this, and the other similar tragedies happened because someone decided to act out in a violent manner.   I will give you that having the gun made it easier for the kid to carry out his violence - the gun didn't make him decide to be violent, the gun didn't cause him to feel whatever disenfranchisement and discontent that drove him to the decision to be violent.  Fuck everyone who wants to apologize for or ignore the people who create the situations that provoke others like this kid to violence, focusing instead on the evil object used to carry out the violence instead of the violent act itself. That attitude is what is responsible for the increasing # of incidents we're seeing - and it will be an exponential exacerbation unless we all individually and collectively intervene to address those behaviors.  

That would actually require many of you to get off your collective asses and do something more than clamor for "another law" - and I suspect that many of you don't want to be bothered enough to intervene and actually do something.  That is the sad thing - my kids know that I've told everyone every where they go to tell me if they aren't behaving properly.  My kids have been taught and understand accountability, how to deal with being told "NO", and how to deal with disappointments.  There are too many who've been taught instead that every unpleasant thing that they experience is someone else's fault, that someone had to intentionally slight them, and that that intentional slight warrants retribution, or have been ignored and not helped to learn how to handle disappointments, and those disappointments grow into resentment and disenfranchisement until they feel like they have no choice but to act out.   

There's no simple "take the guns away and everything will be OK" fix for this.  If there were? I'd cut mine in half on the bandsaw and take 'em to the smelter tomorrow. 

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19 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Seems commonplace to me.

"There have been 142 school shootings in the US since the Sandy Hook shooting in 2012, a near average of one a week, according to data compiled by Mass Shooting Tracker."http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/1/142-school-shootings-sandy-hook-massacre-newtown-c/

If you follow the link you would rethink. I tapped three on the map in the link. A drive by at a carrer center, an altercation in a college parking lot and vandalism¥(shoots fired at an empty building) at a Jr College.jr colllege at mid night. That hardly equates to what we think of as school shootings.

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34 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I disagree with your premise - this, and the other similar tragedies happened because someone decided to act out in a violent manner.   I will give you that having the gun made it easier for the kid to carry out his violence - the gun didn't make him decide to be violent, the gun didn't cause him to feel whatever disenfranchisement and discontent that drove him to the decision to be violent.  Fuck everyone who wants to apologize for or ignore the people who create the situations that provoke others like this kid to violence, focusing instead on the evil object used to carry out the violence instead of the violent act itself. That attitude is what is responsible for the increasing # of incidents we're seeing - and it will be an exponential exacerbation unless we all individually and collectively intervene to address those behaviors.  

That would actually require many of you to get off your collective asses and do something more than clamor for "another law" - and I suspect that many of you don't want to be bothered enough to intervene and actually do something.  That is the sad thing - my kids know that I've told everyone every where they go to tell me if they aren't behaving properly.  My kids have been taught and understand accountability, how to deal with being told "NO", and how to deal with disappointments.  There are too many who've been taught instead that every unpleasant thing that they experience is someone else's fault, that someone had to intentionally slight them, and that that intentional slight warrants retribution, or have been ignored and not helped to learn how to handle disappointments, and those disappointments grow into resentment and disenfranchisement until they feel like they have no choice but to act out.   

There's no simple "take the guns away and everything will be OK" fix for this.  If there were? I'd cut mine in half on the bandsaw and take 'em to the smelter tomorrow. 

Other countries have healthcare systems for 1/2 the price of the US system, with better outcomes. 

And other countries don't have nearly the death rate the US has due to murders at schools.

 

maybe the US could learn some things....

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11 minutes ago, warbird said:

If you follow the link you would rethink. I tapped three on the map in the link. A drive by at a carrer center, an altercation in a college parking lot and vandalism¥(shoots fired at an empty building) at a Jr College.jr colllege at mid night. That hardly equates to what we think of as school shootings.

It was a Washington Times link so I can't attest to their accuracy. Shots fired on a high school, college, or career center certainly would apply I think, I would be personally disturbed if it happened locally. 

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Just now, Raz'r said:

Other countries have healthcare systems for 1/2 the price of the US system, with better outcomes. 

And other countries don't have nearly the death rate the US has due to murders at schools.

maybe the US could learn some things....

I think that you're right, though I suspect we'd each suggest different examples to embrace. 

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

This continues to really bug me.  Every time something like this happens, registration is always trotted out as the fucking end-all, be-all of our savior from this sort of shit.  

Its such BS!  Registration would not have stopped this anymore than registration would have stopped:

Newtown, Va Tech, Charleston, Aurora, Orlando, Tucson, and on and on.....  

Jeff:  Alex, I'll take gun registration for $1000

Alex Trebek:  The Jeopardy Daily double answer is:  "Zero and Zero"

Jeff:  What is the number of mass shootings that registration would have "prevented"?  And what is the number of mass shootings that went unsolved because of lack of registration?

Alex Trebek:  "Jeff, that is correct.  You have won the daily double and you now lead the game by over $6900.  Congratulations."

 

Let me first say that thoughts and prayers to the victims and a request for a cooling off period before turning this into a political fight.  Please show some respect.

ok, now, registration would prevent a crime like this.  Loose guns kill kids.

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The kid had been making a lot of You Tube videos with his AW. He had been planning this for two weeks. A counsellor had been notified about vague threats. He left a note.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/alleged-spokane-area-shooter-had-assault-rifle-told-friends-he-was-going-to-do-something-stupid/

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36 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Other countries have healthcare systems for 1/2 the price of the US system, with better outcomes. 

And other countries don't have nearly the death rate the US has due to murders at schools.

 

maybe the US could learn some things....

Nahh - the USA is not like other places. :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

There's no simple "take the guns away and everything will be OK" fix for this. 

But there IS a simple "reduce the ocean of guns to a sane level and there will be a massive reduction in mass shootings and other gun murders" fix for this.

No two countries and societies could be more similar, but Canada's gun death rate is around 1/4 of the USA and would no doubt be even lower if there wasn't such an easy supply of illegal guns available right across the border.

The stats are decades old and are available in seconds but the gunnies prefer their willful blindness and bullshit excuses because that way their deadly toys remain unaffected.

Lots of "reasonable" arguments but it all comes down to the simple fact that they don't give shit one about hundreds of dead children every year and thousands of dead people every year - their deadly toys are the only thing that really matters.

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Read 1/2 this thread and had to share.  This goes deeper than just the school, just the community and just the state that this shit happens in.  Columbine happened before my kid was out of diapers, but he has been trained by the school system to fear hallways and always have a safe place at school.  We are not gun people by any means, but he said when he gets the $$ he is gonna get a handgun.  I asked why on earth?? He explained that since grade school it has been drilled into their heads that they need to have a safe place at school and/or have some protection Mace, pepper spray etc when not in school.. He also said that every new room or building built or renovated since columbine has a cutout by the door so you can lock the door and hide.  Made me think long and hard about the whole damn thing.  The world we live in hu...  

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2 hours ago, badlatitude said:

It was a Washington Times link so I can't attest to their accuracy. Shots fired on a high school, college, or career center certainly would apply I think, I would be personally disturbed if it happened locally. 

I randomly clicked three. None were random shooters letting loose a hail of bullets. Two were altercations. Drive by suggests gang or drug activity with a target. That hardly equate to "School shooting." 

The Times seemed to lump every weapons discharge within 1000 feet (school zone) of a school as a "School Shooting". That is disengenuous at best.

Further, suicide attemps and accidental discharges are also lumped in.

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Just now, warbird said:

I randomly clicked three. None were random shooters letting loose a hail of bullets. Two were altercations. Drive by suggests gang or drug activity with a target. That hardly equate to "School shooting." 

The Times seemed to lump every weapons discharge within 1000 feet (school zone) of a school as a "School Shooting". That is disengenuous at best.

What else do you expect from a right wing site? If your kid was at school and there was an altercation in the parking lot that ended in a shooting of any kind, what would you do and how would you feel about it?

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As a high schooler, I had a shotgun in the back window. Many of us did. Never heard of a school shooting. What's changed is people not weapons. Fix that first.

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17 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

As a high schooler, I had a shotgun in the back window. Many of us did. Never heard of a school shooting. What's changed is people not weapons. Fix that first.

not really - we've kicked that data around enough. no need to dig back up - there were shootings back then. You just didn't hear about them. Hell, I dated a girl who's brother spent 6 years for an accessory to a double homicide after a botched robbery. 30.06 at close range to the head. Execution style. Rural farm town. Barely any news coverage but folks knew.  The kid was yanked by the cops right out of math class.

Was a challenge on our 2nd date as we "disappeared" for a bit of time, and her parents freaked out - they had had death threats to the family.

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14 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Strict liability should apply to someone who sells their car to a Nazi, who runs it into a crowd of people protesting fascism. Make it harder for American Nazis to get cars, not easier, and hold people responsible for providing them with weapons. Strict liability is the answer. 

What if the car is sold to a commie?

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27 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

As a high schooler, I had a shotgun in the back window. Many of us did. Never heard of a school shooting. What's changed is people not weapons. Fix that first.

Let me first say, prayers and thoughts to the victims of this horrendous crime lest I be labeled insensitive so shortly after the bodies are still warm.

Ok, now that is behind us, there was school violence, including guns.  But Columbine was the turning point.  Mass killings.  20 plus killed with military grade weapons, rapid fire handguns and large capacity magazines.  The slide has been towards the loose access to these weapons and a cult like following that these weapons are equalizers.  You are bullied, get a gun.  You are crazy, get a gun.  You are scared, get a gun.   The gun is the solution, not the problem.  So it may not be the gun (although, assault weapons were not available when I was in school) its the attitude that guns are the equalizer.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I remember reading years ago about a guy who sold a crazy hot muscle car to a kid as his first car.

The predictable happened and the kid ended up in a wheelchair.

The seller lost a huge lawsuit over it - presumably some sort of "duty of care" thing.

Caveat Emptor only goes so far in a civilized society.

Bullshit.

 

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10 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Acting quickly to politically exploit a convenient shooting is essential. Same as when you did it.

 GCA 68 is a better example

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18 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Hell, I dated a girl who's brother spent 6 years for an accessory to a double homicide after a botched robbery. 30.06 at close range to the head. Execution style. Rural farm town. Barely any news coverage but folks knew.  The kid was yanked by the cops right out of math class.

Was the shooting on school grounds?

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3 minutes ago, warbird said:

Was the shooting on school grounds?

You're the one who selected the site of the shootings, does it matter? A kid had to walk home through it if it was near a school.

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25 minutes ago, warbird said:

Was the shooting on school grounds?

no - I saw your note as being general. If you want to think of school shootings, I recall a sniper on a campus...

Hell - most news was local, the 24x7 cable news hunger didn't exist. If it bleeds, it leads. The data we reviewed in the past was, yeah, these things always happened, but are now just more lethal with the new "tools" available.

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51 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

 20 plus killed with military grade weapons, rapid fire handguns and large capacity magazines.  

You lie. Not mil spec.  weapons.

Of course your pansy ass has never been in the military, so how would you know?

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38 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

My socks today are black.  What color is your sock?  Moderate?

Army green. Bitch.

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7 minutes ago, Moderate said:

You lie. Not mil spec.  weapons.

Of course your pansy ass has never been in the military, so how would you know?

Your socks are mil spec?

What do you call an Uzi?  I think its issued by the Israeli Army.

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Just now, Spatial Ed said:

Your socks are mil spec?

What do you call an Uzi?  I think its issued by the Israeli Army.

Cant back up your lies?

Poor little fag sitting in mommies basement. 

Maybe the dog will lift his tail for you later

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1 minute ago, Moderate said:

Cant back up your lies?

Poor little fag sitting in mommies basement. 

Maybe the dog will lift his tail for you later

Fuck off

"But the weapon that did the most lethal damage at Columbine HS was an Intratec TEC-DC9 9mm submachine pistol, with 52-, 32- & 28-round magazines. Originally a fully-automatic handgun designed for the Apartheid South African government to compete with the Israeli Uzi,"  https://riversong.wordpress.com/the-guns-of-columbine/

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2 minutes ago, Moderate said:

Cant back up your lies?

Poor little fag sitting in mommies basement. 

Maybe the dog will lift his tail for you later

I am in no way suggesting the dog is underage

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2 minutes ago, Moderate said:

Cant back up your lies?

Poor little fag sitting in mommies basement. 

Maybe the dog will lift his tail for you later

Oh, I think I've found a loose thread on a sock.  Don't mind me while I pull it.

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Just now, badlatitude said:

Fuck off

"But the weapon that did the most lethal damage at Columbine HS was an Intratec TEC-DC9 9mm submachine pistol, with 52-, 32- & 28-round magazines. Originally a fully-automatic handgun designed for the Apartheid South African government to compete with the Israeli Uzi,"  https://riversong.wordpress.com/the-guns-of-columbine/

But not fully automatic in the hand of the pussies

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1 minute ago, Spatial Ed said:

Oh, you are butt hurt.  Loving it.

Not full-auto, not mil spec.

Liar

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1 hour ago, Moderate said:

What if the car is sold to a commie?

What if the car is sold to an idiot?

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

What if the car is sold to an idiot?

Exactly, where does liability end?

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4 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

You really can't handle the truth.  Perhaps your other socks can.

Specious,

Go blow a dog, Im going for a run.

You bore me

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52 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

What color is your sock?  Moderate?

What colour is that? Drab grey or beige or something?

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

What colour is that? Drab grey or beige or something?

Khaki

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Moderate is sounding more than his usual moderately stupid self today.

He's gone full retard it seems.

 

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I stay out of your gun debated as far as possible. Guns in the USA are kind of like people that buy a pair of turtles, get bored and release them into the wild...they go feral..we have laws about releasing turtles into the wild.

I propose that if you'd start replacing the word gun, with turtle...it may

 expose these arguments as ludicrous and take the heat out of the debate.

A well regulated aquarium, being necessary to the security of a turtle free State, the right of the people to keep and bear turtles, shall not be infringed." 

(you may exchange the word turtle for any other potentially invasive pest..(except guns))

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20 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

What colour is that? Drab grey or beige or something?

Same color it has always been - yellow.

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25 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

What colour is that? Drab grey or beige or something?

Tabby striped ?

Personally I reckon this sock belongs to Sharkbait1, Aka Left Foot, aka King of socks, aka Schrodinger's cat. All of which are banned and thus fair game . 

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7 hours ago, Raz'r said:

what's proposed is registration and liability. Which you someone conflate into a "Gun Ban"

You have a  problem with English....

What's proposed and sometimes enacted is also gun bans and confiscation programs.

Like the ban affecting Billy Backstay's gun. One of those slow motion bans, so his personal property isn't destined for confiscation until he dies owning it.

The NY SAFE Act

California's Summer Confiscation Plan

The FL Ban On Scary .22's

And yes, those are all gun bans and most proposed or passed in response to a convenient shooting. Sandy Hook created a legislative emergency in the State of New York.

That's what is political about these shootings to me. Deny that the bans and confiscation programs exist all you want. I've seen the actual laws, court cases, etc, and know you're either lying or ignorant if you say they don't exist.

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7 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Have you seen that advocated by any sane people here? Or proposed by any elected representatives?

What's proposed over and over is more gun bans. That's DOING SOMETHING.

After years of reading these threads, I wonder when Tom is going to offer something besides protest? Do you even realize that you do little except whine and never offering your solution? The Jeff/Tom pity party has gotten so bad I don't even care anymore. Let gun law move to its natural conclusion whatever that may be. 

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4 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

After years of reading these threads, I wonder when Tom is going to offer something besides protest? Do you even realize that you do little except whine and never offering your solution? The Jeff/Tom pity party has gotten so bad I don't even care anymore. Let gun law move to its natural conclusion whatever that may be. 

When grabbers offer something besides gun bans and confiscation programs.

What have you offered?

You started a thread on gun violence, meaning mostly suicides, so what kind of gun control will help with the big problem, suicides?

I'd consider it a bonus if your solution didn't involve gun bans and confiscation programs like the one your state had planned for this summer. You haven't commented on the federal judge shutting that down. Unimportant to you?

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1 hour ago, Moderate said:

Specious,

Go blow a dog, Im going for a run.

You bore me

Too funny.  I really got your goat.  

Can't handle it can you cuck?

Didn't realize there were such snowflakes in Hawaii.

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49 minutes ago, Moderate said:

Another fat nutcase that cant get laid.

Why should my rights be infringed?

Did you check his socks?  I bet they are just like yours.

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14 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

When grabbers offer something besides gun bans and confiscation programs.

What have you offered?

You started a thread on gun violence, meaning mostly suicides, so what kind of gun control will help with the big problem, suicides?

I'd consider it a bonus if your solution didn't involve gun bans and confiscation programs like the one your state had planned for this summer. You haven't commented on the federal judge shutting that down. Unimportant to you?

I believe registration, licencing and safe storage have been mentioned far more often..(by a zillion times) than banning and confiscation.

I only casually skim these threads but the general impression I take away is like a bell curve..a few extremists on either side.  

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20 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

When grabbers offer something besides gun bans and confiscation programs.

What have you offered?

You started a thread on gun violence, meaning mostly suicides, so what kind of gun control will help with the big problem, suicides?

I'd consider it a bonus if your solution didn't involve gun bans and confiscation programs like the one your state had planned for this summer. You haven't commented on the federal judge shutting that down. Unimportant to you?

Tom, here you go again, you offer nothing and demand that I recycle a suggestion. This isn't about me, this is about you being helpful to the problem and the fact is you can't. You're so avulsed to anything that impedes free and expansive ownership of guns, you can't think beyond that. You are reduced to using pointed words and phraseology to defeat ideas. The fact is you've become boring, I wish you would sit back and think of something new for a change. 

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2 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Tom, here you go again, you offer nothing and demand that I recycle a suggestion. This isn't about me, this is about you being helpful to the problem and the fact is you can't. You're so avulsed to anything that impedes free and expansive ownership of guns, you can't think beyond that. You are reduced to using pointed words and phraseology to defeat ideas. The fact is you've become boring, I wish you would sit back and think of something new for a change. 

OK, so this summer's confiscation program out in your state is a boring subject to you.

It's not to me. Sorry.

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You know, there are very few "ideals" in this world that don't boil down to monetary self interest.

Religious intolerance and terrorism are based on it... 

I'm betting that if Tom actually did a little self reflection on where his intransigence comes from it would boil down to..even with tiny registration fee for admin purposes, like $20 PA..the total cost would be more than he feels comfortable with.

How any honest law abiding person ( and I'm assuming Tom is such) can argue that registering your fire arms is some deep infringment of your 2A rights. 

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3 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

OK, so this summer's confiscation program out in your state is a boring subject to you.

It's not to me. Sorry.

You were boring or elsewhere, you turkey. You spent the summer off the gun forums, yet Rome was burning after Kolbe and Peruta. Your.22 caliber dead horse is not even relevant. The Tom Ray missile trajectory is aimed into a ditch. And now you avoid the historical details of the FF era on our forums. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

I believe registration, licencing and safe storage have been mentioned far more often..(by a zillion times) than banning and confiscation.

I only casually skim these threads but the general impression I take away is like a bell curve..a few extremists on either side.  

I haven't seen anyone else mention extremists on the gun control side.

For example, no one has said, "Maybe New Jersey went a bit too far in making an ordinary .22 with a fixed magazine an assault weapon."

No one has said, "Maybe California shouldn't seize all those magazines and should allow PB to buy the latest model Glock if he wants one."

None have said, "It's a good thing the NRA is likely to prevent those extremists in FL from passing their ban on ordinary .22's."

I'm glad to see at least one person with whom I might have a reasonable conversation on this subject. Recognizing that grabbers can go too far is an important first step.

I have stated my problem with registries many times. The problem is simple: grabbers close them. If they'd stop doing that, I'd have little problem with them. But they won't, so I do. You can see why they won't. Among the things you won't find from anyone but gun nutz around here is someone saying, "Maybe the Supreme Court was right that DC and Chicago should not have had closed registries, aka bans."

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7 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I haven't seen anyone else mention extremists on the gun control side.

For example, no one has said, "Maybe New Jersey went a bit too far in making an ordinary .22 with a fixed magazine an assault weapon."

No one has said, "Maybe California shouldn't seize all those magazines and should allow PB to buy the latest model Glock if he wants one."

You can stand down, since this isn't up to you. New Jersey and California voters made those decisions. The laws were tweaked and monitored by upper courts, and they are the law of the land now. That's how it works per the constitution. 

But thanks for your opinions.

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19 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I haven't seen anyone else mention extremists on the gun control side.

For example, no one has said, "Maybe New Jersey went a bit too far in making an ordinary .22 with a fixed magazine an assault weapon."

No one has said, "Maybe California shouldn't seize all those magazines and should allow PB to buy the latest model Glock if he wants one."

None have said, "It's a good thing the NRA is likely to prevent those extremists in FL from passing their ban on ordinary .22's."

I'm glad to see at least one person with whom I might have a reasonable conversation on this subject. Recognizing that grabbers can go too far is an important first step.

I have stated my problem with registries many times. The problem is simple: grabbers close them. If they'd stop doing that, I'd have little problem with them. But they won't, so I do. You can see why they won't. Among the things you won't find from anyone but gun nutz around here is someone saying, "Maybe the Supreme Court was right that DC and Chicago should not have had closed registries, aka bans."

Simple question..are those items banned?? as in..no one is allowed to possess one? No way I'm getting into the cog pins of this debate.

And maybe if we stopped using inflamatory terms such as gun nutz and grabbers it might help?

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8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

It happened because of your insane gun culture

Nothing else to discuss.

However I'm sure the gunnies will come back with their usual bullshit rationalizations about "tools" etc. And when all else fails they can always fall back on "Fuck You - 2A"

Even "Fuck You - 2A" may be workable. It only sticks on the urban myth level.

Justice Kennedy is credited with a half dozen unambiguous caveats within Heller which are now being used in court. The principal battle ahead is that Heller applies individual gun violence rights only within the home. Outdoor gun violence rights WILL have means, manner, and location restrictions applied by and supported within states. Such limitations are already established and considered constitutional (even in states which have explicitly individual gun rights such as CT).

Jeffie Poo has this bit where the constitution protects us from popular (but unconstitutional)  ideas . (If people ever voted to lynch blacks, Jeff's "connie" would step in, etc.) That is exactly what happened in Kolbe. Urban myth was demanding that AW models are already in "common use,"  and are therefore protected. The circuit court noted the math as a 1% ownership factor, identified the potential and nature of the tool, and used the language and thunder of Scalia's Heller flagship to exclude them from constitutional protection.

The History accepted within Heller is a farce. It claims that armed confrontation was acceptd in 18th Century England and in the Colonies (thereby somehow upending Blackstone's judicial principles). Additionally, the history within MacDonald mis-represented the state laws at the time of the ratification of the 14th Amendment, and the intentions of that convention. The Breyer dissent in MacDonald waved a red flag, that thirty four professional historians were offering further information.

Both Heller and MacD were narrow decisions based on poor input. I think the upper courts are sharp enough to factor in the emerging, factual history, not incomplete falsehoods. We'll see.

The SA Gun Club has produced no historians except El Dorado of the Empty Boots. LMFAO.

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FWIW, the guys at the local hardware store were all doing open carry today.  Buying a bit of TB2 and 1000 grit sandpaper. More autos than revolvers.  9 mm seem to be the open carry of choice.  

Neighborhood kids freaked out.  

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3 minutes ago, Amati said:

FWIW, all the guys at the local hardware store were all doing open carry today.  Buying a bit of TB2 and 1000 grit sandpaper. More autos than revolvers.  9 mm seem to be the open carry of choice.  

They might get attacked by bullied kids from the local school? 

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7 minutes ago, Amati said:

FWIW, the guys at the local hardware store were all doing open carry today.  Buying a bit of TB2 and 1000 grit sandpaper. More autos than revolvers.  9 mm seem to be the open carry of choice.  

Neighborhood kids freaked out.  

Actually..after a lot of thought, I've come down on the side of open carry v concealed. :D

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8 minutes ago, jocal505 said:

They might get attacked by bullied kids from the local school? 

Like I was asking.  A lot of anxious looks trading around.  Some holsters strapped, some not.  Didn't seem like a good idea to look too closely or too long.  Especially the big guy with the .357.  He seemed a bit jumpy.

And the chip reader was slow.  Nervous conversation....ha ha!  Reader at Albertson's is faster, ha ha...

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6 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Actually..after a lot of thought, I've come down on the side of open carry v concealed. :D

It's pretty unnnerving to see a civilian packing...

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2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

It's ever more unnerving to wonder :(

No shit, sad thing is, I'm beginning to wonder if I need  to invest-

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3 minutes ago, Amati said:

No shit, sad thing is, I'm beginning to wonder if I need  to invest-

Make it compulsory!! (Now why does a certain FST sketch spring to mind "But I used all my Uppers!!! :D)

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14 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

It's ever more unnerving to wonder :(

 

12 minutes ago, Amati said:

No shit...

Just to recap, this just got floated before our SC, with Gorsuch involved. The issue is rights to outdoor guns, much-discussed on our threads. The signature case is Peruta, who is denied both CC and OC in CA. The SC exchanged notes internally about this for 11 weeks this summer, then declined to discuss the problem.

Why? Because their unequivocal history shows that English law was 1000% against concealed weapons, period, no waffling, a felony, case closed, If the SAF continues to press this, the golden age of open carry may be at hand.

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1 minute ago, jocal505 said:

 

Just to recap, this just got floated before our SC, with Gorsuch involved. The issue is rights to outdoor guns, much-discussed on our threads. The signature case is Peruta, who is denied both CC and OC in CA. The SC exchanged notes internally about this for 11 weeks this summer, then declined to discuss the problem.

Why? Because their unequivocal history shows that English law was 1000% against concealed weapons,period, case closed. If the SAF continues to press this, the golden age of open carry may be at hand.

I think we're all Bozos on this bus.

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

I think we're all Bozos on this bus.

How do you mean?

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4 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Fuck off

"But the weapon that did the most lethal damage at Columbine HS was an Intratec TEC-DC9 9mm submachine pistol, with 52-, 32- & 28-round magazines. Originally a fully-automatic handgun designed for the Apartheid South African government to compete with the Israeli Uzi,"  https://riversong.wordpress.com/the-guns-of-columbine/

Okay now that's... just... weird.

How did you happen come across Robert Riversong's blog?

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