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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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^This. Only thing I am interested in is the only thing omitted.

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Square tube stanchions, bow and stern pulpits...ugh.

Galley sink looks like it's going to be awkward to use even in port. you need to reach over the stove burners to get to the basin of the sink.. wtf?

No fiddles on the stove top. The slightest wake would spill whatever was cooking.

Put wheels on it and call it an amphibious camping trailer/house boat. Lose the mast and keel, put a large awning over the whole barge...

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What is the down side of square stanchions?  I thought the galley layout was functional.  You do not cross over anything to get to the sink.  The stove top was interesting and I did not think to ask about fiddles, but it is not gimballed so you would not be using it under way.

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6 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

What a terrible website design. All style and you never get a good idea of what the boat actually looks like. 

+1. The only photos are the boat under construction/

5 hours ago, vjm said:

^This. Only thing I am interested in is the only thing omitted.

And only vague clues as to the rudder & keel.

Overall, they seem to be hiding something.

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2 hours ago, sailman said:

What is the down side of square stanchions?  I thought the galley layout was functional.  You do not cross over anything to get to the sink.  The stove top was interesting and I did not think to ask about fiddles, but it is not gimballed so you would not be using it under way.

Square stanchions: less comfortable to grip. Probably not Stainless...

In the construction photos the sink bowl is next to the burner of the stove top . The drainage portion of the sink is on the island portion of the galley counter-top. Unless they ordered the wrong configuration of the sink, (reversed layout), you're definitely gonna burn your armpit reaching into the sink. You could kneel on the short settee berth and reach over the faucet to access the sink...

Why have an elaborate galley on a cruising boat if there is no intention of using it underway?art-gallery-interior-01.jpg

art-gallery-interior-09.jpgart-gallery-interior-11.jpg

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7 minutes ago, sailman said:

As built had the stove top off to the side.  The sink is outboard because the refrigerator is a slide out.

Do you mean the cook top is turned 90 degrees from what is shown in the construction photos? The sink bowl is as shown in the photos?

The refer has a hinged vertical door, or slides out with top access?

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On 9/16/2017 at 11:31 PM, Terry Hollis said:

I am curious about the choice of name by a US company .. "Wahine" is a Maori word which means "Woman" 

Yes, the name WAHINE is Hawaiian for Woman!

Aside from our love for the Hawaiian Islands we picked out that name as our designs are entirely inspired by WOMEN attributes:

a)      Beauty = Sleek line designs

B)      Passion = Performance  & technology

c)       Glamour = Uniqueness Style

d)      Strong = Sturdiness against the elements

And the list continues….

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3 hours ago, Wahine Yachts said:

Yes, the name WAHINE is Hawaiian for Woman!

Aside from our love for the Hawaiian Islands we picked out that name as our designs are entirely inspired by WOMEN attributes:

a)      Beauty = Sleek line designs

B)      Passion = Performance  & technology

c)       Glamour = Uniqueness Style

d)      Strong = Sturdiness against the elements

And the list continues….

or you've been reading tillerman's website..

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While the positive attributes of the gender are admirable,  the boat reminds me more of a tubby broad with a bad haircut and a grating voice who thinks we care about her opinions. 

That and the website is complete shit.

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I climbed on the boat at the Newport show and was impressed.  I want to see it in the water, I think it will show her lines better when wet.  It reminds me of a modern Laser 28, a fast pocket cruiser/racer.  The boat has lots of innovation and awesome features, especially for a 26' boat.  I realize its the SA way to trash every new idea but I'll stand up and say these guys are taking a fresh approach and have created a stylish, very comfortable and fast cruiser/racer that has appeal across many markets and especially first time boat buyers that the sport desperately needs.

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2 hours ago, billomalley said:

I climbed on the boat at the Newport show and was impressed.  I want to see it in the water, I think it will show her lines better when wet.  It reminds me of a modern Laser 28, a fast pocket cruiser/racer.  The boat has lots of innovation and awesome features, especially for a 26' boat.  I realize its the SA way to trash every new idea but I'll stand up and say these guys are taking a fresh approach and have created a stylish, very comfortable and fast cruiser/racer that has appeal across many markets and especially first time boat buyers that the sport desperately needs.

no, that wrap around window is just fugly..

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I hope for their sake they sell a bunch of them. 

But, my gut tells me the market for a $192,000 26' sailboat is pretty small. That they went forward with the project is a triumph of hope over reason, I'm afraid. Good on them for trying, especially if they used somebody else's money to fund it! 

 

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A 26ft, that's not a "lifestyle" yacht.

The new Black Pearl is a lifestyle yacht!

(Sell the sizzle not the steak boys!)

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The galley is in fact a kitchen, poorly laid out as well. You still need to reach over or past the burners and/or whatever is in the pot on them to reach into the sink. Stupid. No Fiddles so no cooking underway or in a mildly rolling anchorage.

There is room for a conventional nautical cooker/oven combo that is gimballed. (with fiddles and rails)  I can't figure out why they chose the land based version. If they put in a gimballed stove and reversed the galley sink bowl/drainboard setup it would be more compatible with cooking under way.

I don't see a cold box. I suspect it is vertically hinged...another disaster underway.

The sink in the head is completely impractical. It's impractical in a house as well. Have you ever tried cleaning around the base of one of those. Best used in the display only guest bath. The lighted toe rails are just weird unless you never plan to leave your slip.

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Good on 'em for trying, as there needs to be more choices in interesting, compact, modern, and versatile sailboat designs available here in the US, IMO.

Worth noting though that the Andrews 28 (with a similar overall design intent), a boat that is bigger, faster, lighter and at launch much cheaper than the Wahine, with a lifting keel and a more workable interior, sold only four boats and went out of production shortly thereafter...

 

 

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On 9/16/2017 at 5:46 AM, MisterMoon said:

What a terrible website design. All style and you never get a good idea of what the boat actually looks like. 

Horrible web site!

The only information I got from it is that the owners of Wahine appear to be alcoholics.

Yep. Nope.

wahine_owners.png.f89724fa5abcac1da937d4d8bb0f01cc.png

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3 hours ago, Xestenz said:

Good on 'em for trying, as there needs to be more choices in interesting, compact, modern, and versatile sailboat designs available here in the US, IMO.

Worth noting though that the Andrews 28 (with a similar overall design intent), a boat that is bigger, faster, lighter and at launch much cheaper than the Wahine, with a lifting keel and a more workable interior, sold only four boats and went out of production shortly thereafter...

 

 

As I recall, when it was first launched, the Andrew's 28 was far from cheap compared to boats of its size...don't know in then dollars vs. now dollars, and agree that the Wahine 26 is likely in real trouble if its really a 200k boat...

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There was a line and the guy manning the booth was tired and frustrated.   I never made it back.   I regret that now.     How did you determine the size?   Too big to trailer, too deep to gunk hole,    A lot of bigger marina gems to look at.   What is it’s niche?   Best of luck.   

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16 hours ago, Xestenz said:

Good on 'em for trying, as there needs to be more choices in interesting, compact, modern, and versatile sailboat designs available here in the US, IMO.

Worth noting though that the Andrews 28 (with a similar overall design intent), a boat that is bigger, faster, lighter and at launch much cheaper than the Wahine, with a lifting keel and a more workable interior, sold only four boats and went out of production shortly thereafter...

 

 

A28 was well-designed, poorly-executed.

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I'm all for new and interesting designs, pushing the envelope and all that, but seriously??

art-gallery-interior-B-12.jpg

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On 9/26/2017 at 1:02 PM, Great Red Shark said:

While the positive attributes of the gender are admirable,  the boat reminds me more of a tubby broad with a bad haircut and a grating voice who thinks we care about her opinions. 

That and the website is complete shit.

My first thought when I read Wahine Yachts post was: Roseanne Barr circa the TV show. And you nailed it.  +1 on the website being total shite.

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Here's what I don't get.  Everything about the fit out says "dockside condo".  Non-gimballing stovetop, sink in the head, kingsized berth aft, and the dorky blue LED lights along the toerail.  But 99% of dockside condo shoppers are looking for size/space for the dollar.  Against a $200k 35 -40ft Hanse or Bene,  this thing gets creamed purely due to size...

The J/Boats model tells us that there are people who will pay a premium for a boat that performs well, but this is priced in the range of the J/97e, which is still a much larger boat, with better performance (in part purely due to size/waterline length).  

Who is the target audience?

And yes, if you're listen Wahine Yachts, your web site sucks...

 

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4 hours ago, ryley said:

I'm all for new and interesting designs, pushing the envelope and all that, but seriously??

art-gallery-interior-B-12.jpg

Their market research shows that non sailing women and homosexual men with fashion sense are key to the pocket yacht purchasing decision.    I don't think this boat was designed for roughing it in the Sea of Cortez or marina hopping in the desolate rust belt East of Cleveland.  The bulb keel wouldn't be my choice for the shallow spots in Kentucky Lake.  This might be a fine trophy on the large western reservoirs?      I didn't see tank size listed anywhere, but with the emphasis on convenience technology I assume it is meant to be kept near civilization and qualified technical support.   

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Now wait a minute.  Even non-sailing women and homosexual men (NTTAWWT) will do some sort of shopping or price checking before just writing a check for $192K.  When they do they're going to find a shit load of options for spending on a boat, floating condo or whathaveyou.  When they do, what is going to send them over the edge for this 26 footer, this Mac26 lookalike, when they could have a nearly new 2017 Hanse 385 that is decked out with Nav gear and sails, for more than $30K less?  This Wahine 26 is one of the better ways I've seen lately to make a small fortune in the boat business (considering they're starting with a large fortune).

6374198_20170920082401799_1_XLARGE.jpg&w

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With no new 2017 budget Catalina-Hunter in that size, there is only the B25 [25'11''] and what else?? http://www.beneteau.com/us/first/first-25

I like the DS window forward detail on this boat and the sprit design. I don't even mind the square tubing pulpit.

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9 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

the collore sceame matchez the resteraunte wherre they killed Luca Brazzi.

It’s a message...

Wahine sleeps with the fishes...

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4 hours ago, J T said:

Now wait a minute.  Even non-sailing women and homosexual men (NTTAWWT) will do some sort of shopping or price checking before just writing a check for $192K.  When they do they're going to find a shit load of options for spending on a boat, floating condo or whathaveyou.  When they do, what is going to send them over the edge for this 26 footer, this Mac26 lookalike, when they could have a nearly new 2017 Hanse 385 that is decked out with Nav gear and sails, for more than $30K less?  This Wahine 26 is one of the better ways I've seen lately to make a small fortune in the boat business (considering they're starting with a large fortune).

6374198_20170920082401799_1_XLARGE.jpg&w

Yes, but those most influenced by fashion will value the blue toerail lights (actually that might be nice when trying to step down in the dark if you have to tie up to a wall and don’t want to lose your night vision), unique square rails and vogue interior over a more functional and larger boat of more staid design.   At least the small size will make it easier to leave the dock without a crew if the owner so desires.  My impression from Annapolis is there are very few boat sized boats being built.   People buying new boats in America are not middle class.    The trick is convincing sufficiently rich people they want a small yacht.    The question is what conditions would lead that person / couple not to chose the biggest boat he can afford, like most in that position seem to.   As far as choosing this boat, I agree most diehard sailors would chose a different path, depending on their interests.   Ignoring budgets, my ideal boat likely is not yours due to geography, apathy toward racing, inability to not work for multiple days, partner’s likes, etc, etc.   This is for a guy / gal or couple who values appearance more then practicality and wants an unique luxury boat.   Maybe it would have benefit for a senior couple?   

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I hate to rain on any parade for people in the sailing industry, but this boat seems like the love child of a couple trust fund hipsters who wanted to play boat builder. 

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We started to look at it at the Annapolis show but the build quality was horrible - the ports were barely hanging on, the stanchions were cheapo, etc. AND, it was a split hull (not shoebox, but 2 halves glued together vertically) so I'd avoid hitting anything at speed. Anyway, it looked like a tricked out Mac 26 - no thanks. We just left without going on deck or below. Yuck.

Greg

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9 hours ago, gcutter said:

We started to look at it at the Annapolis show but the build quality was horrible - the ports were barely hanging on, the stanchions were cheapo, etc. AND, it was a split hull (not shoebox, but 2 halves glued together vertically) so I'd avoid hitting anything at speed. Anyway, it looked like a tricked out Mac 26 - no thanks. We just left without going on deck or below. Yuck.

Greg

I was wondering if you'd looked at it and how it compared to your boat...guess this answers my question :o

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Yes it’s overpriced, but at least it doesn’t include seat cushions.

If it’s a dockside condo for downsizers, where’s the comfort factor. Half an hour into cocktails in that cockpit will start your sciatica raging...

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What a colossally ugly piece of shit. Truly the Mac26x for the Millennial Generation. 

May Doom and Unmitigated Failure befall them. 

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Okay, I just received and update from the newly hired crises PR firm hired by Wahine Yachts, and headed by long missing L'il Murry to deal with the firestorm created by the new vessels reception on SA. Thus far I have only received information regarding two of the many items that have been attacked here: the square tube pulpits and the bathroom sink choice. The square tube pulpit/stanchion material was selected so as to provide improved friction when pressed into use as docking line attachment points as well as a manual purchase for jib sheets when needed. I was informed that this choice was made after initial testing revealed a strong likelihood of cleats and winches ripping out of the hull/deck structure under normal usage. No mention was made of the probability of the pulpits and stanchions suffering similar failure. The head sink was chosen as the open bowl style will provide useful handholds when trying to steady oneself either for balance when using the facilities or for control after excessively participating in evening cocktails at dockside. (Note that inappropriate dock line angles necessitated by use of pulpits and stanchions as tie down points may exacerbate vessel movement and lead to an increase in use of head sink as vomitorium.)

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On 10/25/2017 at 8:45 AM, ryley said:

I'm all for new and interesting designs, pushing the envelope and all that, but seriously??

art-gallery-interior-B-12.jpg

Perhaps the bowl swivels permitting use on either tack...

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I took a look in Annapolis. When I stepped on the fold down transom I thought it was going to break. I think their greatest engineering achievement on this one may have been the trailer they used to haul and display it. 

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The sink is configured that way so your wife/girlfriend doesn’t need someone to hold her hair back after too mojitos. 

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On 10/24/2017 at 3:08 PM, Somebody Else said:

Horrible web site!

The only information I got from it is that the owners of Wahine appear to be alcoholics.

Yep. Nope.

wahine_owners.png.f89724fa5abcac1da937d4d8bb0f01cc.png

The photo of the Narragansett Tall Boy in the "art gallery" part of the website is a real class act.


But the boat's called the "Lifestyle" so maybe the lifestyle they're advertising is for the instagram famous idiots who just want the appearance of wealth without the intelligence required to achieve it. 

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On 10/24/2017 at 3:08 PM, Somebody Else said:

Horrible web site!

The only information I got from it is that the owners of Wahine appear to be alcoholics.

Yep. Nope.

wahine_owners.png.f89724fa5abcac1da937d4d8bb0f01cc.png

They selleng the funne, and thecomrotterey                   :)

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51 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

They selleng the funne, and thecomrotterey                   :)

More like the fanny and cumfrottery...

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On 9/16/2017 at 2:58 PM, familysailor said:

Square stanchions: less comfortable to grip. Probably not Stainless...

In the construction photos the sink bowl is next to the burner of the stove top . The drainage portion of the sink is on the island portion of the galley counter-top. Unless they ordered the wrong configuration of the sink, (reversed layout), you're definitely gonna burn your armpit reaching into the sink. You could kneel on the short settee berth and reach over the faucet to access the sink...

Why have an elaborate galley on a cruising boat if there is no intention of using it underway?art-gallery-interior-01.jpg

art-gallery-interior-09.jpgart-gallery-interior-11.jpg

Stove not gimbaled and no sea rails=massive personal injury lawsuit. 

Or is this a mock up interior?

Also,  instead of NMMA, build to A.B.Y.C.

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12 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Stove not gimbaled and no sea rails=massive personal injury lawsuit. 

Or is this a mock up interior?

Also,  instead of NMMA, build to A.B.Y.C.

Not a mock up. See the photos of the finished product somewhere further up in this thread...

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Would like to see some other figures before casting my vote. Things like righting moment, angle of vanishing stability etc. With 650kg ballast and only 1.5m draft but with nearly 3m beam, what are we looking at here?

There appear to be some nice details, but also things like that sink are just gonna be a pain in the arse or at least the forearm when you reach over the stove to do anything...

In general, for a boat that's supposedly built using modern techniques, she's kinda heavy. But does seem to carry a decent amount of sail. I guess when you cram a pile of stuff into a boat, it's all gonna add weight. 

For the cost of the boat, I'd at least expect to see some velocity predictions...

I'd be pretty pissed if I forked out near on 200K for a boat, and some drunk 20 somethings in a 3k Piedy with a louder stereo beat me somewhere... I'm also pretty sure I know to which boat the girls in bikinis will swim...

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1 hour ago, Somebody Else said:

Show me a luxurious and comfortable 36-footer. I dare you.

 

26 footer. 

If we’re lucky, maybe they’ll be prone to sinking like J24’s and rid the world of themselves...

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6 hours ago, Peanut Butter said:

26 footer. 

If we’re lucky, maybe they’ll be prone to sinking like J24’s and rid the world of themselves...

Typo.

Sorry.

 

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12 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

Show me a luxurious and comfortable 26-footer. I dare you.

 

I guess it depends upon how we define luxury. Is your definition of luxury a space full of booze, babes, n black jack? Or a space full of marble and gilded furniture? is luxury being able to sail, fast close to the wind and with a cold beer in your hand?

 

I'm pretty sure I've experienced (quite) some luxury in the cockpit of a Farr 727 under the Auckland harbour bridge at 10am on a Sat morning.

And I've experienced faux luxury in a €1000 a night hotel room on Lido in Venice...

 

Luxury is not the things you have around you, but the way you have them, the way you view them... it's all about POV....

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The swim platform seems to float on the waterline of the boat. Is that the idea?

It would seem CataHunt gave up on the fully kitted 27 range because buyers get a better bang for the buck at 30-31 feet.

Hunter struggled to sell the 22 daysailer because of the high price. They marketed it as a 2 generation family boat and whatnot, but buyers chose elsewhere.

Odd that Mac's hold their used value so high, more than the value of the outboard, up here anyway.

The wrap window has been done before, from the Farr 6000 to the M26 and people have still bought. That said, forward windows have been done better.

The sink and wall treatment likely gave good boat show, mom will remember that over the catahuntabene effort.

The claim of uniqueness in the salon is wrong, the h27 has that layout. The bad sink may be unique.

 

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Eeesh.  Remove all the extraneous BS, redesign galley, add retractable keel, come in well under $100K and maybe there's a market for it.  More value and fun for the $ here.

http://www.thinkseascape.com/boat/seascape-27/sailboat-the-next-generation/

Like the headroom though.

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8 hours ago, DrWatson said:

I guess it depends upon how we define luxury. Is your definition of luxury a space full of booze, babes, n black jack? Or a space full of marble and gilded furniture? is luxury being able to sail, fast close to the wind and with a cold beer in your hand?

 

I'm pretty sure I've experienced (quite) some luxury in the cockpit of a Farr 727 under the Auckland harbour bridge at 10am on a Sat morning.

And I've experienced faux luxury in a €1000 a night hotel room on Lido in Venice...

 

Luxury is not the things you have around you, but the way you have them, the way you view them... it's all about POV....

missing_the_point_SA.png

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