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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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RKoch

Hooning in the Nimitz.

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Nice hand brake turn!  I watched the Ike break away from us and accelerate like a sport fisherman with rooster tail!

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

I bet that fucker could really do some donuts on a gravel parking lot

:rolleyes:

FB- Doug

Well, the Nimitz is a 42 year old lady now. So it'd be like spinning donuts and throwing gravel in a 1975 smog-era T-bird land yacht. Just pretend you're Detective Cannon.

 

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Full rudder turns at speed. Purpose is to verify rudder actuators are operating at full force. Doing that on Nimitz in 1994 cost me a favorite coffee cup. Left it on my desk when I went to one of my shops to verify we had our stuff all tied down.  Missed getting back to the office in time by about 30 seconds. Really interestimg to be below decks when doing those maneuvers. 

 

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Sierra Hotel. One of my favorite boats to land on. And always a mind boggling display standing on the fantail. Except when dumping their trash at sea. Which they still do. Wish they wouldn't.

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That is kind of cool, must admit. 

But it's also an instrument of mass death. 

I'd much rather pay to help send your kid to college. 

      Signed, former spear carrier for the empire

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10 hours ago, mookiesurfs said:

Sierra Hotel. One of my favorite boats to land on. And always a mind boggling display standing on the fantail. Except when dumping their trash at sea. Which they still do. Wish they wouldn't.

I always wanted to land on a carrier. With my buddies STOL kit C-150, I could fly in front of it, slow to 40 knots IAS, let it catch up, and try not to roll off the stern :lol:

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That's why the sheet cakes baked in the galley were really thick and one end, and thin and tough at the other end.

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12 hours ago, RKoch said:

Well, the Nimitz is a 42 year old lady now. So it'd be like spinning donuts and throwing gravel in a 1975 smog-era T-bird land yacht. Just pretend you're Detective Cannon.

 

 

11 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Full rudder turns at speed. Purpose is to verify rudder actuators are operating at full force. Doing that on Nimitz in 1994 cost me a favorite coffee cup. Left it on my desk when I went to one of my shops to verify we had our stuff all tied down.  Missed getting back to the office in time by about 30 seconds. Really interestimg to be below decks when doing those maneuvers. 

 

Gents -

That ain't THE Nimitz.  Its the USS USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72) - a Nimitz class aircraft carrier - recently doing sea trials after her mid-life refueling and overhaul.

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Wow. Does it do as well to starboard? What's the righting moment? :rolleyes:

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Just now, Grey Dawn said:

Wow. Does it do as well to starboard? What's the righting moment? :rolleyes:

Yes - there is a shot from the bow showing a bunch of S turns in the wake.

Is that a real F-18 being used to test the tie downs or do they use a stunt double?

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I watched one of those tests on vid a few years ago - a new carrier on sea trials IIRC. There were crew on the flight deck and it looked like it was heeling about 30 degrees - they all had one leg out at full stretch and the other bent in 1/2.

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Sea trials on a tanker I took out of New Orleans had a full astern test for 8 hour (I think may have been shorter).  Very weird seeing the (bow) wave creeping up the transom!

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[thread drift and anecdote]

I spent some time on the big grey boats.  One of the drills routinely conducted was 'steering gear breakdown'.  Go back to tiller flats (the steering gear compartment) and open the breaker providing power to the steering motors.  

Part of the game was to see how long until the helms-person noticed the helm was not responding and they weren't actually steering any more.  I think 40* off course was the record.  

Steering gear trials (like shown in the excellent video above) are usually conducted during daylight in generally calm weather.  A mere distraction for most of the crew.  I'm surprised the video doesn't show lots of hangers-on just looking around and gawking.  For most, that could be the most interesting thing that happened that day.  

Being at sea on a big grey boat is a bit like being in jail - with the added risk of drowning.  [OK that's an old joke]

 

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10 hours ago, Tax Man said:

Yes - there is a shot from the bow showing a bunch of S turns in the wake.

Is that a real F-18 being used to test the tie downs or do they use a stunt double?

Given its the only aircraft aboard, its likely that it's a "retired" airplane stripped of engines and radar that is used to train the handling crew.  Usually crane one or two aboard for post availability sea trials to give the yellow shirts something to use for practice. 

 

 

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19 hours ago, bugger said:

[thread drift and anecdote]

I spent some time on the big grey boats.  One of the drills routinely conducted was 'steering gear breakdown'.  Go back to tiller flats (the steering gear compartment) and open the breaker providing power to the steering motors.  

Part of the game was to see how long until the helms-person noticed the helm was not responding and they weren't actually steering any more.  I think 40* off course was the record.  

Steering gear trials (like shown in the excellent video above) are usually conducted during daylight in generally calm weather.  A mere distraction for most of the crew.  I'm surprised the video doesn't show lots of hangers-on just looking around and gawking.  For most, that could be the most interesting thing that happened that day.  

Being at sea on a big grey boat is a bit like being in jail - with the added risk of drowning.  [OK that's an old joke]

 

Sheesh, on submarines the helmsman had loud alarms that let him know the moment either hydraulics or servos had failed, and the system (depending on the failure mode) usually switched to the emergency mode automatically. This was on a 637-class boat, which was hardly new.

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If they put another rudder/canard on the bow to tighten the turn................ would the front fall off?

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No, but the airplanes would fall off the roof.

 

Really.  When the air wing is embarked, we have to keep the ship on an even keel at all times - more than about 2 degrees of heel and the planes start moving on their own, even breaking tie down chains.  You learn how to do skid turns as a result.  Back the inboard shafts to keep the deck level, and all that.

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2 degrees? That's amazing. I know a carrier is massive, but I thought bad enough weather would upset you more than 2 degrees.

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7 hours ago, BrianM v2 said:

No, but the airplanes would fall off the roof.

 

Really.  When the air wing is embarked, we have to keep the ship on an even keel at all times - more than about 2 degrees of heel and the planes start moving on their own, even breaking tie down chains.  You learn how to do skid turns as a result.  Back the inboard shafts to keep the deck level, and all that.

Correct. The brown shoes get really PO'd when you remind them that they are at sea, not at some air base far inland. Last time I was on a carrier (couple decades ago now, I should say) they had recently added a McDonald's drive-thru to try and help keep up the illusion.

All kidding aside (it's true about the McDonalds) it's impossible to imagine putting a jet down on a pitching rolling deck.

FB- Doug

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45 minutes ago, Ajax said:

2 degrees? That's amazing. I know a carrier is massive, but I thought bad enough weather would upset you more than 2 degrees.

A bit more than 2*. But they handled it  better than the tin cans.

image.jpg

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The old Essex class carriers (e.g. Bonhome Richard, Hancock, Oriskany, Lexington, FDR, etc.) were still in service back in the 70s and they would move around quite a bit in a seaway. Trust me. 

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1 hour ago, kinardly said:

The old Essex class carriers (e.g. Bonhome Richard, Hancock, Oriskany, Lexington, FDR, etc.) were still in service back in the 70s and they would move around quite a bit in a seaway. Trust me. 

CV-12 Hornet and CV-28 Bennington.

 

image.jpg

image.jpg

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Pittsburgh lost her whole bow...

the damaged carriers and Pittsburgh was the second typhoon Halsey sailed into in a six month span.

 

 

image.jpg

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On 9/19/2017 at 7:50 PM, Great Red Shark said:

I thought it was just footage of them doing their 720 after (mistakenly)  shooting down that Iranian airliner

That was the USS Vincennes (CG-49) - an Aegis cruiser.

You don't want to be on them when they do high speed maneuvers.

$_12.JPG

 

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That ain't no super tanker with a 12 mile turning radius.  I'm hoping that there wasn't a pilot in that F-18 sitting on the alert deck.  I'd be crapping my flight suit.

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17 hours ago, Ajax said:

2 degrees? That's amazing. I know a carrier is massive, but I thought bad enough weather would upset you more than 2 degrees.

The difference is prep work.  The flight deck crew can use heavy-weather tie downs (different chaining pattern, more per aircraft, etc) if something is expected but don't typically use that.  And obviously it is hard to conduct flight ops with everything lashed down.

Two slightly different issues.  One is moving the ship around with aircraft loose (during a cycle) - doesn't take much to get an aircraft moving sideways; the other is keeping things in place when they are tied down.  We actually have movable ballast to counteract weight movements on the flight deck to keep her level.  Uncorrected, the ship's lateral trim will change a few degrees during a flight cycle as the aircraft move from spotted positions (generally all stbd side to clear the waist cats) to gone.  The pilots care both because of unplanned movements topside but that heel also changes clearance across the ramp as they come back onboard.  Remember the landing area is angled across the deck - leaving a list on the ship means the ramp (aft-most portion of the flight deck) is higher on one side than the other.  And there is only a few feet of clearance between the hook and the ramp on a typical approach.

To the original picture, I've done this several times on IKE.  Got her over about 15 degrees in the turns.  By comparison, I can get a destroyer to lay over closer to 25 in a full power/full rudder turn.  The destroyer is more fun to drive.

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To expound on Brian's point, there is a hook to ramp value for each aircraft which figures into the calculation of where to set the fresnel lens visual aid ("meatball"). The pilot actually flies his eyes down the glide path so there is also a hook to eye value plugged into the glide slope calculation. Because it's all optics, it's possible to know with precision, the dimensions of the "window" the pilot's eyes must pass through for a successful, target wire engagement. For the old USS Constellation, crossing the ramp it was 9" high by two feet either side of centerline. For the F-4, that was at a  closing velocity of no more than 126 but probably not less than 120 Kts. with stabilized glide slope and on target speed.

So, forgive the brownshoes for being fussy about heel angle during recovery ops. 

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