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Shortforbob

Puerto Rico

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Can someone explain to me the status of this place?

 

“Hysteria is starting to spread”: Puerto Rico is devastated in the wake of Hurricane Maria

No power, little access to water, dwindling food: the situation in Puerto Rico right now.

Updated by Brian Resnick@B_resnickbrian@vox.com  Sep 25, 2017, 5:06pm EDT
 

GettyImages_853157646.0.jpg A man rides his bicycle through a damaged road in Toa Alta, west of San Juan, Puerto Rico, on September 24, 2017.  RICARDO ARDUENGO/AFP/Getty Images

Five days after Hurricane Maria tore through Puerto Rico, bisecting the entire island, the US territory is in the grips of a serious, life-threatening crisis, with humanitarian aid getting in far more slowly than is needed.

The island is running short on food, fuel, and access to clean water and there’s limited communications, which means some communities have received no information about the rescue efforts underway.

Among the greatest threats is the continuing lack of power throughout much of the island, after nearly the entire power grid was knocked offline during the storm (about 80 percent of the transmission infrastructure was destroyed). The New York Times reports it could be four to six months before power is restored on the island. That’s half a year with Puerto Rico’s 3.4 million residents relying on generators, half a year without air conditioning in the tropical climate, half a year where electric pumps can’t bring running water into homes, half a year where even the most basic tasks of modern life are made difficult.

“The devastation is vast,” Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rossello said in a statement Monday. “Make no mistake — this is a humanitarian disaster involving 3.4 million U.S. citizens.”

The storm has claimed at least 10 lives in Puerto Rico so far, according to the Associated Press. But John Mutter, a Columbia University professor who specializes in natural disasters and studied the death toll from Hurricane Katrina, expects in the coming days it will reach into the hundreds.

“Being without power is huge,” says Mutter. “Just how quickly they can get it back is still an unknown thing. But it’s extremely important they get it going to suppress the chances of illness following the storm.”

“Hysteria is starting to spread”

GettyImages_853161328.jpg Family members collect belongings after hurricane force winds destroyed their house in Toa Baja, west of San Juan, Puerto Rico, on September 24, 2017.  RICARDO ARDUENGO/AFP/Getty Images

Other islands -- including Dominica and the US Virgin islands — were devastated by Maria too. And the whole Eastern Caribbean region is also still reeling from the effects of Hurricane Irma.

Puerto Rico is the most populated island Maria hit. And the crisis there is particularly intense. For one, it’s exacerbated by lack of communications. (1,360 out of 1,600 cellphone towers on the island are out.) Many communities have been isolated from the outside world for days, relying only on radios for news. The communications shortage means the full extent of the crisis has not been assessed.

"The devastation in Puerto Rico has set us back nearly 20 to 30 years," Puerto Rico Resident Commissioner Jenniffer Gonzalez told CBS News. "I can't deny that the Puerto Rico of now is different from that of a week ago. The destruction of properties, of flattened structures, of families without homes, of debris everywhere. The island's greenery is gone."

But over the weekend, a handful of journalists were able to make it in to communities that have been isolated.

The Washington Post reported from Juncos, Puerto Rico, a municipality in the Central Eastern region of the island. There, they found a diabetic woman afraid that the refrigeration that keeps her insulin preserved will soon run out, people living in homes missing roofs or whole second floors, and where the villagers asked journalists upon their arrival, “Are you FEMA?”

There are few hospitals with running generators, CNN reports, and fewer with running water. Reuters reports that hospitals are scrambling to find diesel fuels to power generators, and that food supplies are running low. A cardiovascular surgeon the newswire spoke with explained:

…without air conditioning, the walls of the operating room were dripping with condensation and floors were slippery. ... Most patients had been discharged or evacuated to other facilities, but some patients remained because their families could not be reached by phone.

USA Today made it to the town Arecibo on the Northern shore of the island, where residents hadn’t heard any news from the outside world for four days, and the only source of fresh water is from a single fire hydrant."

 

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I don't know much about their legal or political status, a quick google tells me that they are sort of half citizens of the USA, able to live and work Stateside but without full voting rights. Their economy is both restricted by their status and kept just above the waterline by US handouts.

A colony in 19th century terms?

 

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3 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

I don't know much about their legal or political status, a quick google tells me that they are sort of half citizens of the USA, able to live and work Stateside but without full voting rights. Their economy is both restricted by their status and kept just above the waterline by US handouts.

A colony in 19th century terms?

 

full citizens - but they don't live in a "state" therefore have not congressional representation.  I suggest the whole lot of them migrate to DC.

 

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17-0

no, that is neither a football score or a reference to the Dolphins' perfect season. 

That is the number of Tweets our Dear Leader has made about the NFL vs. the number of Tweets he has made about Puerto Rico after Maria. 

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2 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

17-0

no, that is neither a football score or a reference to the Dolphins' perfect season. 

That is the number of Tweets our Dear Leader has made about the NFL vs. the number of Tweets he has made about Puerto Rico after Maria. 

Yes, your post was the mother of this thread :)

 

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

full citizens - but they don't live in a "state" therefore have not congressional representation.  I suggest the whole lot of them migrate to DC.

 

Hmm bit like us and NZ.

Australia and NZ have a special relationship. We enjoy many reciprocal arrangements and up to 2001 more or less an open border between the two of us. (Not that NZ has ever been our colony of course)

Other places have divested themselves of colonies one way our another, either casting them adrift or with a more gentle  supported disengagement.

We granted PNG independance..Without much support I might add..We still provide financial aid but It's pretty much a basket case now IMHO

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7 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Hmm bit like us and NZ.

Australia and NZ have a special relationship. We enjoy many reciprocal arrangements and up to 2001 more or less an open border between the two of us. (Not that NZ has ever been our colony of course)

Other places have divested themselves of colonies one way our another, either casting them adrift or with a more gentle  supported disengagement.

We granted PNG independance..Without much support I might add..We still provide financial aid but It's pretty much a basket case now IMHO

Not even close.  They are United States citizens  that happen to live in a US territory.  They can openly move to any state and upon residency vote in local, state and federal elections.  

Here is what FEMA is doing.   Three major disasters in three different locations is taxing the system.   I doubt any country  in the world could do better at this point with a similar situation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/09/23/fema-teams-try-get-arms-around-maria-disaster-puerto-rico/697164001/

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That report is 3 days old. Unlike Texas and Florida, Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans can't get help from over the state border quicky nor just leave.

Without power and fresh water disease will strike pretty quickly, you only have to look at what happened in Haiti.

Seems to me that PR needs something more than FEMA teams, some extraordinary intervention like  food and water drops 

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You have to remember that there is no power, communication, food or drink, and that the local government authorities are just as crippled by it as everyone else. 

You have to get control of the place and organize all of the basics. It would be great to hand supplies over and wipe off the hands and move on but that just won't work. They have total destruction. This requires serious mobilization and effort. Get the Comfort down there and start taking care of people. This is becoming a real crisis. 

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51 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

17-0

no, that is neither a football score or a reference to the Dolphins' perfect season. 

That is the number of Tweets our Dear Leader has made about the NFL vs. the number of Tweets he has made about Puerto Rico after Maria. 

Five former Presidents are raising money for Puerto Rico, Donald Trump has not spoken a word. I think it's time to label him what he is, a damn racist.

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3 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

I think it's time to label him what he is, a damn racist.

Too late.

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Meli,

They are complete full US Citizens like anyone else. If I moved there and they moved here we would swap voting rights. They have no "half" citizenship.

Anyway, the status of the place is FUBAR and will take some time to fix. I might possibly be going there to help fix it.

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25 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

You have to remember that there is no power, communication, food or drink, and that the local government authorities are just as crippled by it as everyone else. 

You have to get control of the place and organize all of the basics. It would be great to hand supplies over and wipe off the hands and move on but that just won't work. They have total destruction. This requires serious mobilization and effort. Get the Comfort down there and start taking care of people. This is becoming a real crisis. 

And I wonder how many have generators. Any food in freezers will be poison by now.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/24/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-puerto-rico/index.html

USNS Comfort is ties up in Virginia at the moment..Puerto Rican hospitals are overflowing and collapsing.

Silly Hillary should just shut up..I think we know by now that Trump is petty enough to deny aid from this quater just 'cos Hils said he should.

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12 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Nice ship, but that's it for 3.5 million people? it has 250 beds. No drinking water, no food, no medicine, no fuel for generators, no construction supplies, possible Cholera, this is moving too slow, Trump is going to earn a nasty grade for this one.

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Just now, badlatitude said:

Nice ship, but that's it for 3.5 million people? it has 250 beds. No drinking water, no food, no medicine, no fuel for generators, no construction supplies, possible Cholera, this is moving too slow, Trump is going to earn a nasty grade for this one.

Does the average red hat differentiate between Mexicans and Puerto Ricans?

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3 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Nice ship, but that's it for 3.5 million people? it has 250 beds. No drinking water, no food, no medicine, no fuel for generators, no construction supplies, possible Cholera, this is moving too slow, Trump is going to earn a nasty grade for this one.

Agreed.  Don't forget that there was a huge boat lift of people from the Virgin Islands to Fajardo after Irma, so there may well be more folks than we know on the island.  It has been several days now.  Things are not good there.  If Mr. Trump is capable of a shining moment, this would be a damn good time to have it.  

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7 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

PR is the dotard's Katrina.

Shaping up to be worse. Far worse.

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Just now, Shortforbob said:

And still he twitters on about football and flags.

Because they cannot vote in a Presidential election, they can go to hell according to Trump.

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

Shaping up to be worse. Far worse.

Uh Huh..Bush was just incompetent and unprepared..Trumps had two practice runs at this..Seemingly he's bored by Hurricanes and PR cant vote for him. But how many times can one say..He's unfit for office? 

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15 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Wait a minute....Are you saying Puerto Ricans are Americans?  How can that be?  Aren't they all brown?

 

Puerto Rico seems to be singled out for special attention in Trump World..Looking back ..let's just say he does not appear to be a fan..especially as his fucking Golf club there filed for bankruptcy 2015..This man hates with vengance. 

During his campaign he was backing their independence:rolleyes:

Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump

Follow
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Democrats are trying to bail out insurance companies from disastrous #ObamaCare, and Puerto Rico with your tax dollars. Sad!

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10 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Uh Huh..Bush was just incompetent and unprepared..Trumps had two practice runs at this..Seemingly he's bored by Hurricanes and PR cant vote for him. But how many times can one say..He's unfit for office? 

What the fuck?  You act like Houston and Florida are all back to normal.  

Here is what is happening so far. 

Four thousand US Army Reserve members have been deployed to the island, the Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration said. More than 1,600 service members from the US National Guard have also responded to Hurricane Maria, according to FEMA's news release. 
Additionally, US Northern Command, which provides military support for civil authorities, is working with FEMA and government officials in the relief efforts, the release said. 
Hurricane Maria cut off power and communications for millions of people after walloping Puerto Rico on Wednesday. More than 3.3. million people live on the island territory, and at least 10 people have died from the storm, according to Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rossello's office. 
 
Earlier this week, Trump issued a disaster declaration for Puerto Rico and order federal assistance for various recovery efforts.

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1 minute ago, TMSAIL said:

What the fuck?  You act like Houston and Florida are all back to normal.  

Here is what is happening so far. 

Four thousand US Army Reserve members have been deployed to the island, the Puerto Rico Federal Affairs Administration said. More than 1,600 service members from the US National Guard have also responded to Hurricane Maria, according to FEMA's news release. 
Additionally, US Northern Command, which provides military support for civil authorities, is working with FEMA and government officials in the relief efforts, the release said. 
Hurricane Maria cut off power and communications for millions of people after walloping Puerto Rico on Wednesday. More than 3.3. million people live on the island territory, and at least 10 people have died from the storm, according to Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rossello's office. 
 
Earlier this week, Trump issued a disaster declaration for Puerto Rico and order federal assistance for various recovery efforts.

So the Puerto Ricans have to wait to eat until Houston and Florida are back in the black?  What a racist dick you are.

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Do Florida and Houston take priority?

Is there some sort of "first come first serve" mentality going on in your head..or something darker?

Just now, Spatial Ed said:

So the Puerto Ricans have to wait to eat until Houston and Florida are back in the black?  What a racist dick you are.

Thanks Ed.

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

Do Florida and Houston take priority?

Is there some sort of "first come first serve" mentality going on in your head..or something darker?

Thanks Ed.

Red Hats live in Houston and Florida.  Gotta dance with the date who brought you to the ball.

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Irma hit before Maria.  That's just the way it is. 

This is the time to hope that we succeed in this, and to demand action.  I've written my congressman and Senators about it.  

There are assets devoted to this.  Word via FB from the island suggests that the situation is worsening, not improving.  Some folks have generators, but not enough.  It is brutal, it is 94 degrees and time is of the essence.  

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YCFMTU

  1. ...owed to Wall Street and the banks which, sadly, must be dealt with. Food, water and medical are top priorities - and doing well. #FEMA

     
  2. ...It's old electrical grid, which was in terrible shape, was devastated. Much of the Island was destroyed, with billions of dollars....

     
  3. Texas & Florida are doing great but Puerto Rico, which was already suffering from broken infrastructure & massive debt, is in deep trouble..

     

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Donald Fucking Trump............................. Leave it to that Dotard to just make life more miserable for brown people....

 That Son Of A Bitch should give his fucking income from his fucking hotels to help the people of Texas, Florida, The USVI and (Puerto Rico is the fat Virgin), shut the fuck up.

He should get on one knee and praise the flag that he wasn't affected by these storms.

 What a fucking ASSHOLE!

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Dotard supporters should be so proud.  Millions of Americans without basic needs.  And he goes golfing and tweeting about the NFL.  What a cuck.  

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You guys are losing it.  My point was Meli's bullshit statement that Trump had two run ups to Maria. This has zero to do with race and everything to do with the logistics of being the third major disaster to hit the US in a month.  Supplies and support is not infinite.  The other issue is power restoration that's is done at the local level.  Do you think if MARIA was first FEMA would pull out of PR and head off to Houston or Florida?  

One more point Houston is not exactly TRUMP territory nor is Key West.  

 

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1 minute ago, Spatial Ed said:

Dotard supporters should be so proud.  Millions of Americans without basic needs.  And he goes golfing and tweeting about the NFL.  What a cunt  

FTFY

 

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Just now, TMSAIL said:

You guys are losing it.  My point was Meli's bullshit statement that Trump had two run ups to Maria. This has zero to do with race and everything to do with the logistics of being the third major disaster to hit the US in a month.  Supplies and support is not infinite.  The other issue is power restoration that's is done at the local level.  Do you think if MARIA was first FEMA would pull out of PR and head off to Houston or Florida?  

One more point Houston is not exactly TRUMP territory nor is Key West.  

 

Nah, you think the dotard should fix up Texas and Florida before spending any energy on those dirty Ricans.  They are brown and subhuman.  That's how you Red Hats roll.

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I don't think we should lock him up...... We should send him to PR with a generator, and 50 gallons of fresh water.

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2 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

You guys are losing it.  My point was Meli's bullshit statement that Trump had two run ups to Maria. This has zero to do with race and everything to do with the logistics of being the third major disaster to hit the US in a month.  Supplies and support is not infinite.  The other issue is power restoration that's is done at the local level.  Do you think if MARIA was first FEMA would pull out of PR and head off to Houston or Florida?  

One more point Houston is not exactly TRUMP territory nor is Key West.  

 

You seem to be an idiot. You go on ignore now. Bye.

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6 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

You guys are losing it.  My point was Meli's bullshit statement that Trump had two run ups to Maria. This has zero to do with race and everything to do with the logistics of being the third major disaster to hit the US in a month.  Supplies and support is not infinite.  The other issue is power restoration that's is done at the local level.  Do you think if MARIA was first FEMA would pull out of PR and head off to Houston or Florida?  

One more point Houston is not exactly TRUMP territory nor is Key West.  

 

Complet Bullshit ..PR has been hit twice remember.PR copped it before Florida..so by your stupid logic?? .Jesus fucking christ..Like the USA doesn't have the means to act first and think about payment later..This needs more than FEMA..If this is the best excuse you can come up with ..God help the USA if San Fran gets another earthquake or sustains a rocket from kimmy..

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

I don't know much about their legal or political status, a quick google tells me that they are sort of half citizens of the USA, able to live and work Stateside but without full voting rights. Their economy is both restricted by their status and kept just above the waterline by US handouts.

A colony in 19th century terms?

 

That's not right. They are full citizens of the USA, they have the identical National rights as any other citizen.

The difference is that Puerto Rico has only recently (four years ago) voted to become a U.S. state, and that process can take a while (and given the current political climate will take even longer). Since Puerto Rico is not a State, the residents of PR don't have the voting rights of a state, limited representation. They have representation within their own territory however.

A corollary is how I used to to live in a certain Colorado city, and I had the right to vote in that city, run for office, etc.. I also had voting rights in the County (i.e. for Sheriff) and in the State (i.e. for Governor and State Representation). Then I move right outside the city (literally a few hundred yards) and I'm now in an unincorporated part of the county. I still have my county and state voting rights, but since I don't live in that city, I can no longer participate in their politics. If I move back there, my rights instantly reappear.

When a Puerto Rican moves to any U.S. State (and they can do so at will) they then have the same rights as the residents of that State. So it's not the person who doesn't have the full rights, but rather the island itself that doesn't have the full rights.

The problem with PR now is that they have recently suffered a near economic collapse in a bond scandal, and these natural disasters that they have exacerbate the problem because they're nearly broke and the aid they get from the Feds is too limited. They need to become a State, our 51st State, because even though they get mostly the same Federal benefits as we do (i.e. Medicare, Social Security, DOE ad DOI funds, etc., they will remain poor without the investment potential provided to them by Congressional Representation and full National support. These natural disasters are a good example, rather than seeing the full weight of the U.S. National Guards, FEMA, State Aid, Disaster Zone aid, etc., we have yahoos who consider them less than Americans.

PR is officially a Commonwealth, we have two Commonwealths here, Puerto Rico and the Northern Marianas Islands, which includes Saipan and Tinnian. We also have some Territories such as Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands and American Samoa, again, their citizens are full U.S. Citizens, able to come and go to the mainland as they please, with full rights when they're here, but more limited representational rights than Commonwealths. (Although there is a limitation with citizens of American Samoa, the citizenship isn't conferred as easily as the other territories.) And finally we have the Economic Free Association States, which include Palau, Marshall Islands and Federal States of Micronesia. Those are their own countries with their own U.N. representation, but they are defended by the U.S. Military, their citizens can come and go to the USA as they please and when they come here they don't receive most U.S. benefits in their own countries, but when they come here they receive full benefits, Social Security, access to jobs, voting, etc..

I do get your passive-aggressive accusation purpose of "colony in 19th century terms" but they are not those in any way, the U.S. economy receives far less in benefit from those islands as they cost us to defend and support and support them, so they are not in any way the definition of a "colony" which conventionally means a profit-generation scheme. An exception might be Guam, which is so heavily populated by U.S. Military, that is in a sense, a "profitable" territory, because to replicate that kind of military infrastructure elsewhere (like on Hawaii) would be very expensive. Guam, American Samoa, Saipan, Tinnian, and the other smaller islands really need to bind up to become the 52nd State, it would benefit them tremendously, in my opinion.

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11 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Lets see if this image posts.  It helps to see the image....

 

22045867_1462838890418176_48254778918772

“Food, water and medical are top priorities - and doing well.”

Let that sunk in as you see and hear of what is really happening in PR. 

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

Complet Bullshit ..PR has been hit twice remember..Jesus fucking christ..Like the USA doesn't have the means to act first and think about payment later..This needs more than FEMA..If this is the best excuse you can come up with ..God help the USA if San Fran gets another earthquake or sustains a rocket from kimmy..

This is theoretically the most powerful, richest country in the world, with the largest military and the biggest budget...so, a couple of photo ops for the dotard in Texas, and one or two doddering appearances in Florida, and Puerto Rico?  Nada. 

Too much flag waving and feeding the slavering base.  But give him a break.  It's hard work to forget that your wife is standing next to you.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

You guys are losing it.  My point was Meli's bullshit statement that Trump had two run ups to Maria. This has zero to do with race and everything to do with the logistics of being the third major disaster to hit the US in a month.  Supplies and support is not infinite.  The other issue is power restoration that's is done at the local level.  Do you think if MARIA was first FEMA would pull out of PR and head off to Houston or Florida?  

One more point Houston is not exactly TRUMP territory nor is Key West.  

 

There are sailors from PR on Facebook who are there, and painting a very dire picture.  No potable water.  94 degree temps.  No power.  No comms.  Not losing it; time is of the essence here.  

I sincerely hope that "doing well" does not become this season's "heck of a job".  

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2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Complet Bullshit ..PR has been hit twice remember..Jesus fucking christ..Like the USA doesn't have the means to act first and think about payment later..This needs more than FEMA..If this is the best excuse you can come up with ..God help the USA if San Fran gets another earthquake or sustains a rocket from kimmy..

That's not completely right. Unfortunately there are certain laws that limit the response our National Government in PR. A proactive President could act anyway with some small amounts of discretionary funds and deal with dotting the i's and crossing the t's later, but President Trump is not that proactive President. Even if he was, those funds are pretty much a piss in the bucket compared to what PR needs at the moment.

I monitor government money at my job, contrary to popular opinion (like your's) non-military money is fairly rigidly controlled, it is difficult to impossible to allocate it without specific legal authority and Congressional action. There literally isn't the mechanism to make it happen.

Now, if PR was a State, there would be all kinds of legal authority to get help and money to them much more directly.  We can get money and aid to Puerto Rico much, much easier than say, Haiti, but it's still more difficult than say, Florida.

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17 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

First response from trump...victim blame. absolutely fucking beyond disgusting.

Is this response bordering on treason?

His response is spot on.  Where is the treason?

FOOD WATER and MEDICAL are top priorities  

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3 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

His response is spot on.  Where is the treason?

FOOD WATER and MEDICAL are top priorities  

 

You missed the bit about dept that sadly must be dealt with..before the bit about food water and aid..Is he saying that PR must pay their debts first? in a stupid trumpian round about way?? otherwise..why mention it?

It's NOT NORMAL to mention any state or countries debt obligations BEFORE one offers assistance in times of disaster.

I'm off to work and you are "this" close to being my first non troll on ignore.

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"When it struck the U.S. Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico six days ago, Hurricane Maria was the strongest storm to hit the American territories in 80 years. “Its force and fury stripped every tree of not just the leaves, but also the bark, leaving a rich agricultural region looking like the result of a postapocalyptic drought,” according to one New York Times dispatchfrom Puerto Rico. In its wake, more than 3 million Americans now live without electricity or adequate food or water, and under the specter of looting and disorder. Some 80 percent of island’s agriculture has been destroyed, decimating a source of food as well as a chunk of Puerto Rico’s economy. Ninety-five percent of cellphone towers on Puerto Rico are out, depriving locals of a way to ask for help—and crippling any government response, too. The situation will likely worsen as emergency supplies run out and as the local government finds itself unable to deliver support or maintain order across such a wrecked landscape.

So far, the Trump administration has dispatched an anemic Federal Emergency Management Agency mission and sundry military units to assess the situation and provide support. But in some cases it took the federal government days to even contact local leaders in Puerto Rico’s major cities, let alone deploy aid. Only the most rudimentary military support is now on the ground. This is inadequate and calls to mind the lethargic response by the Bush administration to Hurricane Katrina in 2005. The U.S. military has a unique expeditionary capability to deliver humanitarian support, logistics, and security anywhere in the world, far above what FEMA or any other civilian agency can muster. American citizens are suffering and dying and need all their government can do for them (including the military). Unfortunately, their president and the military at his command appear focused elsewhere. Unless this changes, more Americans will die.

Local officials told CNN that 4,000 Army reservists were at work on the island already—although that figure doesn’t match official reporting coming out of the Pentagon or FEMA. (It may, predominantly, include the members of the Puerto Rico National Guard, which includes roughly 8,400 Air and Army National Guard troops.) Within hours of the storm passing, FEMA opened an “air bridge” using military aircraft to bring support personnel and critical equipment to Puerto Rico. FEMA has since brought in more troops, including parts of an Army electrical power unit. Northern Command, the Pentagon headquarters responsible for this operation, said Thursday it was using a handful of aircraft to conduct recovery operations, adding an Army medical company of roughly 150 troops and the USS Kearsarge and USS Oak Hill amphibious ships (with Marines on board) to the operation over the weekend. All told, this force package appears to comprise roughly 10,000 troops, focused primarily on medical evacuation and delivery of supplies. In the five days since the storm, FEMA saysit has distributed more than 1.5 million meals and 1.1 million liters of water to Americans affected by the storms, with more staged for future deliveries.

Make no mistake: These troops have already saved lives and will save more in the weeks to come. Delivering 1.1 million liters of water is no small task. But Puerto Rico has 3.4 million residents, and another 100,000 live in the U.S. Virgin Islands. Clean water is a basic daily necessity. These islands’ residents will need orders of magnitude more—plus food, fuel, electricity, housing, medicine, and more—in the months to come until local capacity is restored.

Here’s one more complicating factor: Unlike other disasters where local authorities retain some capacity, or at least the ability to request mutual aid from adjacent communities or states, the island governments of Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands are completely crippled, and they have no neighbors to call upon for help in the way that Los Angeles could after a major earthquake. Likewise, where FEMA might ordinarily purchase goods or services to provide support, or deploy it from adjacent places, it cannot do so here.

More at the link: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/09/the_trump_administration_s_disaster_response_in_puerto_rico_after_hurricane.html

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30 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

First response from trump...victim blame. absolutely fucking beyond disgusting.

Is this response bordering on treason?

It's not the first response you idiot.  He declared PR a FEDERAL disaster right after it hit.  

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44 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

YCFMTU

  1. ...owed to Wall Street and the banks which, sadly, must be dealt with. Food, water and medical are top priorities - and doing well. #FEMA

     
  2. ...It's old electrical grid, which was in terrible shape, was devastated. Much of the Island was destroyed, with billions of dollars....

     
  3. Texas & Florida are doing great but Puerto Rico, which was already suffering from broken infrastructure & massive debt, is in deep trouble..

     
30 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

First response from trump...victim blame. absolutely fucking beyond disgusting.

Is this response bordering on treason?

I don't see the "victim blame" in those Twitters, can you show them to me?

He's stating fact about Puerto Rico, they had a bond collapse and their economy is in shambles, their infrastructure was a mess before the disaster, it's worse now, their grid is antiquated, they absolutely are in "deep trouble." How has he blamed the victim?

 

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12 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

His response is spot on.  Where is the treason?

FOOD WATER and MEDICAL are top priorities  

Yeah, I missed the "treason" thing, where did he write something treasonous about PR? His Twitters seem pretty spot on. Maybe he wrote something else that was stupid (I wouldn't put it past him) but at least those ones are correct and not confrontational.

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17 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

There are sailors from PR on Facebook who are there, and painting a very dire picture.  No potable water.  94 degree temps.  No power.  No comms.  Not losing it; time is of the essence here.  

I sincerely hope that "doing well" does not become this season's "heck of a job".  

I agree.  Stated that in the other thread.  But some here are driving the race BS in order to score imaginary points.  I wonder where the nearest carrier is because major support has to come in by sea.  

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20 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

You missed the bit about dept that sadly must be dealt with..before the bit about food water and aid..Is he saying that PR must pay their debts first? in a stupid trumpian round about way?? otherwise..why mention it?

It's NOT NORMAL to mention any state or countries debt obligations BEFORE one offers assistance in times of disaster.

I'm off to work and you are "this" close to being my first non troll on ignore.

You apparently don't know about the bond crisis in Puerto Rico, and you're making a judgement on Trump because of it. But that's okay, because I suspect most Americans don't know about the Puerto Rican bond collapse either.

Their bond market pretty much collapsed due to internal mismanagement, and because of that, their own internal means to manage their own emergency funds have been severely hobbled. Trump didn't say that they have to "pay their debts" but rather he's pointing out that they came into this disaster already screwed.

 

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3 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Yeah, I missed the "treason" thing, where did he write something treasonous about PR? His Twitters seem pretty spot on. Maybe he wrote something else that was stupid (I wouldn't put it past him) but at least those ones are correct and not confrontational.

Ok back on my list to have a beer with.  I do not believe any POTUS would intentionally delay help to fellow Americans,  after a disaster   Listening to some here you would think Florida and Houston are Salt Lake City. 

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

Does the average red hat differentiate between Mexicans and Puerto Ricans?

No,   A friend moved from New Mexico to Florida for that reason.   Being a fluent Spanish speaker became an asset.   

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13 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Here’s one more complicating factor: Unlike other disasters where local authorities retain some capacity, or at least the ability to request mutual aid from adjacent communities or states, the island governments of Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands are completely crippled, and they have no neighbors to call upon for help in the way that Los Angeles could after a major earthquake. Likewise, where FEMA might ordinarily purchase goods or services to provide support, or deploy it from adjacent places, it cannot do so here.

This nails it. When islands get hit with quakes, hurricanes and such, they suffer worse than mainland locations because their infrastructure is already tenuous. Their water is internally sourced, their supplies have to be shipped in, and the victims are locked on the island until transport.

I remember after the Haiti earthquake, about another 60,000 people died beyond the 100,000 victims from the quake because the logistics was a nightmare. At the time I had palettes full of solar watermakers to ship down there, I was going to write them off as a loss, and I couldn't find anyone to get them transported down there. They sat on our shipping floor while people down there died from lack of clean water.

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27 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

You missed the bit about dept that sadly must be dealt with..before the bit about food water and aid..Is he saying that PR must pay their debts first? in a stupid trumpian round about way?? otherwise..why mention it?

It's NOT NORMAL to mention any state or countries debt obligations BEFORE one offers assistance in times of disaster.

I'm off to work and you are "this" close to being my first non troll on ignore.

Let's hurry that along then.  You are a know it all  bitch that doesn't have a fucking clue about PUERTO RICO its relationship to the US or the status of its citizens.   You come along with a complete TROLL thread using ignorant comments that bare little to no resembelence to reality.   After IRMA they were bringing  people to PR because it was in better shape than the surrounding islands.   Now MARIA comes along destroys the whole island - in biblical terms hell on earth and less than a week later you are on your fucking  high horse trying to score political points.  FUCK OFF 

Trump said nothing about paying before any relief.  You can't even understand basic English.

This may very well be a disaster of epic proportions  where relief is slow in coming, blame will fall on the administration, but not a few days after the event and certainly not because assets are tied up in TX and Florida  

 

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1 hour ago, Mrleft8 said:

You seem to be an idiot. You go on ignore now. Bye.

Sorry if facts are too uncomfortable to discuss.  I suggest you read Mike,  BL and Sol's "idiotic" points That I agree with, they spell out exactly what PR is dealing with.

 As to putting me on ignore no problem you Seem to do better with the circle jerk crowd anyway.  

Honest discussion appears to be beyond your abilities. 

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18 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Let's hurry that along then.  You are a know it all  bitch that doesn't have a fucking clue about PUERTO RICO its relationship to the US or the status of its citizens.   You come along with a complete TROLL thread using ignorant comments that bare little to no resembelence to reality.   After IRMA they were bringing  people to PR because it was in better shape than the surrounding islands.   Now MARIA comes along destroys the whole island - in biblical terms hell on earth and less than a week later you are on your fucking  high horse trying to score political points.  FUCK OFF 

Trump said nothing about paying before any relief.  You can't even understand basic English.

This may very well be a disaster of epic proportions  where relief is slow in coming, blame will fall on the administration, but not a few days after the event and certainly not because assets are tied up in TX and Florida  

 

Geez TM, Can I talk to your wife like that? Is it that hard to keep it civil?

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14 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Geez TM, Can I talk to your wife like that? Is it that hard to keep it civil?

I've been taking non civil shots on this thread and once She agreed with SE that I'm a racist Dick That removed some of my restraint.  My other points are spot on -  she referred to to the people of PR as half citizens now there is a racist view. It  indicates someone that doesn't have a clue and doesn't even take the time to do basic research.  

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1 minute ago, TMSAIL said:

She agreed with SE that I'm a racist Dick. That removes some of my restraint.  My other points are spot on -  she referred to to the people of PR as half citizens now there is a racist view. It  indicates someone that doesn't have a clue and doesn't even take the time to do basic research.  

Okay, you have a complaint, but does that make descending to the dark side appropriate?

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2 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Okay, you have a complaint, but does that make descending to the dark side appropriate?

Read the whole post bitch was the only bad word directed at her.    That and Fuck off which is appropriate, hardly the dark side.  

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2 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Read the whole post bitch was the only bad word directed at her.    That and Fuck off which is appropriate, hardly the dark side.  

Okay, but don't get carried away when she comes back with even worse language. You do know that's how these things get started?

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1 hour ago, TMSAIL said:

His response is spot on.  Where is the treason?

FOOD WATER and MEDICAL are top priorities  

It’s that “and doing well” part that sticks out. 

Do you have any insight on how those things are “doing well” in PR?  All accounts I’ve read say shit is fucked up and will remain so for quite some time. 

And, before anyone thinks I am blaming President Trump - I’m not. Just pointing out what he Tweeted and believe it is more evidence of his capacity to lie and self-aggrandize. 

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1 minute ago, badlatitude said:

Okay, but don't get carried away when she comes back with even worse language. You do know that's how these things get started?

Naw I said my piece.  Besides she was going to put me on ignore. :)  

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37 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Did Maria wipe out their debt problem along with all their infrastructure?

Ironic, but just a few days before the first storm, I did a seminar about remediation options for PR's bond crisis, the long and short of it, its was an unholy mess before these storms hit ... $73 billion in debt, their path through bankruptcy seems the only real option, which would set them back ten years or more. But with these storms, dear God.

It's just freaking time ... their statehood application needs to be fast-tracked. We should do what we can with aid, let them take the BK, admit them as the 51st State and then work with them to fix it all and then grow wealthy together. They have enormous resources that need to be part of the country in a complete way.

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Irma hit before Maria.  That's just the way it is. 

This is the time to hope that we succeed in this, and to demand action.  I've written my congressman and Senators about it.  

There are assets devoted to this.  Word via FB from the island suggests that the situation is worsening, not improving.  Some folks have generators, but not enough.  It is brutal, it is 94 degrees and time is of the essence.  

Except for Bill Nelson, our congresscritters are about as useful as tits on a bull.

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6 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

It’s that “and doing well” part that sticks out. 

Do you have any insight on how those things are “doing well” in PR?  All accounts I’ve read say shit is fucked up and will remain so for quite some time. 

And, before anyone thinks I am blaming President Trump - I’m not. Just pointing out what he Tweeted and believe it is more evidence of his capacity to lie and self-aggrandize. 

He said #FEMA is doing well.  Considering the stress people of that agency are dealing with, three major disasters in such a short time a little shout out of praise from the boss is more than appropriate.  

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3 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Except for Bill Nelson, our congresscritters are about as useful as tits on a bull.

Sen. Rubio has been busy today.  He was the first one I wrote to, and he has been at work on it, based on some interviews I've seen tonight.  

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1 minute ago, TMSAIL said:

He said FEMA is doing well.  Considering the stress people of that agency are dealing with, three major disasters in such a short time a little shout out of praise from the boss is more than appropriate.  

That hashtag addition after the end of a sentence does not make it the subject of the sentence.

He wrote “Food, water and medical are top priorities - and doing well.”

Things are far from doing well. But, the President would like you to think he is better at everything than anyone else. 

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Bankruptcy judge is probably going to be a bit more lenient now.  There will be no income, and no assets to sell. Clean slate time.

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11 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

That hashtag addition after the end of a sentence does not make it the subject of the sentence.

He wrote “Food, water and medical are top priorities - and doing well.”

Things are far from doing well. But, the President would like you to think he is better at everything than anyone else. 

Well reading that it sounds like he considers "doing well"  an additional top priority.  nothing in there indicates he is saying things are doing well except my view on FEMA, but you disagree with FEMA being his target so we will go with "doing well"  as an additional priority.  What's wrong with that?  

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15 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

That hashtag addition after the end of a sentence does not make it the subject of the sentence.

He wrote “Food, water and medical are top priorities - and doing well.”

Things are far from doing well. But, the President would like you to think he is better at everything than anyone else. 

The dotard's tweet about PR was abut how Wall Street is worried they might get stuck with their debt.  Heck if anyone is an expert on leaving bankers holding debt it would be him.

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34 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Well reading that it sounds like he considers "doing well"  an additional top priority.  nothing in there indicates he is saying things are doing well except my view on FEMA, but you disagree with FEMA being his target so we will go with "doing well"  as an additional priority.  What's wrong with that?  

Seems Trump is more interested in the banks getting paid than the conditions on the ground...

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48 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Seems Trump is more interested in the banks getting paid than the conditions on the ground...

PR will desperately need new credit, new bonds, and their chances of getting any of that without politics at this point is nil. Their pending insolvency couldn't come at a worse time. I'm not sure that Trump could make their situation any worse, and in his own way, he might make it better if he gives the Twitterized notion that the banks are going to get their PR dough, that can help.

You might be right, maybe it will be clean slate time. I just don't see how that can actually happen without telling the banks that they're eating this one. PR is $75 billion in the hole before the storms. So say they can get their debt reorganized minus all the interest to maybe $40 billion, that's still something like 3 weeks of the Pentagon's budget, just a massive pile of dough. And the rebuild will probably add another $20 billion minimum to that. If the banks eat it, who fronts the money for the rebuild?

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10 minutes ago, mikewof said:

PR will desperately need new credit, new bonds, and their chances of getting any of that without politics at this point is nil. Their pending insolvency couldn't come at a worse time. I'm not sure that Trump could make their situation any worse, and in his own way, he might make it better if he gives the Twitterized notion that the banks are going to get their PR dough, that can help.

You might be right, maybe it will be clean slate time. I just don't see how that can actually happen without telling the banks that they're eating this one. PR is $75 billion in the hole before the storms. So say they can get their debt reorganized minus all the interest to maybe $40 billion, that's still something like 3 weeks of the Pentagon's budget, just a massive pile of dough. And the rebuild will probably add another $20 billion minimum to that. If the banks eat it, who fronts the money for the rebuild?

I'm not sure the banks still own that debt. It's likely owned by speculators, who bought it at a discount. Maybe time for those guys to actually eat a loss.

who am I kidding. If obama could be convinced to keep bank stockholders whole, it won't take much for Trump to save the banks at the expense of the people of PR.

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1 hour ago, TMSAIL said:

Well reading that it sounds like he considers "doing well"  an additional top priority.  nothing in there indicates he is saying things are doing well except my view on FEMA, but you disagree with FEMA being his target so we will go with "doing well"  as an additional priority.  What's wrong with that?  

No, it doesn't. If that were the case, "doing well" would have been before the "are top priorities". Nor would he need to separate it from the previous part of the sentence with a hyphen. I remember when you had an issue with people that would (in your view) parse statements incorrectly looking for a way out of their obvious meeting. I wonder what changed, other than the skin colour of the president that is.

 

Sol was right. It's funny watching how certain people up-end their principles when a new party is in office.

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