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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
DtM

VOR Leg 1 Alicante to Lisbon

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Time to start a separate thread for this leg.  Final course TBD dependant on weather.

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Of all the legs with likely light breeze this should be Scallywags chance to be in the mix. Less crew equals less stack weight, but it is also a navigators nightmare wiht constantly shifting wind patterns. So that puts their on deck crew down to 6....too much to ask?

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Will there be a proper watch system on the boats in a leg this length? Feels a bit like it falls between the really short legs of the past where everyone stayed on deck the whole way and the proper ocean legs with real watchrotation.

Could make the difference even greater when you compare Scallywag to TToP in number of crew on watch. 

Going to be an interesting leg :-)

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7 hours ago, Potter said:

Of all the legs with likely light breeze this should be Scallywags chance to be in the mix. Less crew equals less stack weight, but it is also a navigators nightmare wiht constantly shifting wind patterns. So that puts their on deck crew down to 6....too much to ask?

Huh my expectation was the lighter and shifty conditions favor the teams than can effectuate more and better sail changes and tacks & less of a problem in the established trades. We'll see :)

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3 hours ago, Miffy said:

Huh my expectation was the lighter and shifty conditions favor the teams than can effectuate more and better sail changes and tacks & less of a problem in the established trades. We'll see :)

effectuate?  WTF?

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On 9/28/2017 at 0:52 PM, FoolOnTheHill said:

effectuate?  WTF?

Mum used to say if you effectuate too much, it will stunt your growth. 

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Apparently the Course for Leg 1 will be the "Course D" per amended "Sailing Instructions"...rougly 1450 Nautical Miles. They'll sent the Fleet to Sardinia first and then Madeira second.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/static/assets/content_v2/media/files/m45843_si-leg-01-addendum-amdt-01-20171004.pdf

And thanks to DtM for opening up a seperate Thread :)

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Have the OBR's been allocated for Leg 1 (or any other legs) yet?

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Bump.  Use this thread for the comments on Leg 1 so that the general thread does not get overloaded.

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This thread is now boycotted by  LLST or "Long Live Single Threads" a group that protects the rights and lifestyle of  those who can't remember which day it is let alone the million leg numbers of a VOR race. Any prick crossing this picket line will be named and shamed.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

This thread is now boycotted by  LLST or "Long Live Single Threads" a group that protects the rights and lifestyle of  those who can't remember which day it is let alone the million leg numbers of a VOR race. Any prick crossing this picket line will be named and shamed.

So what day is it?

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Your toes are getting close to crossing the LLST picket line there mate...are you feeling lucky today or what?

LOL, Who are you that you tell me what I have to do and what I don't have to? You are not the police here.

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Hopefully VOR does spare us of the two Clowns Martin Tasker/Peter Lester tomorrow. Biggest Sailing Clowns ever. They have no real understanding what's going on.

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1 minute ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Hopefully VOR does spare us of the two Clowns Martin Tasker/Peter Lester tomorrow. Biggest Sailing Clowns ever. They have no real understanding what's going on.

Just like you in other words?

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3 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Just like you in other words?

They should stick to Racing if they are the Commentators and not talk about Burling/Tuke for the entire broadcast cuz that is incredibly annoying. They are both too biased towards NZ Sailors.

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Good Race for Dongfeng. Mapfre had a bit more wind I think and deserved too win.

I guess no surprise that the first 4 Boats (Mapfre, Dongfeng, Vestas and Brunel) will likely fighting for the Trophy. Experience matters.

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9 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

About time?

MAPFRE Alicante In-Port-Race Full Replay :)

 

So, this was posted by the official VOR YouTube channel, but it's not listed in their publicly viewable videos. So they posted it but kept the video unlisted on their account? Is that right?

I'd think it's more likely that I screwed up and just missed it. I'm curious, if the video is unlisted on their channel, where you found it. Because I need to be looking there in the future.

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Yep, I couldn't find it. Seems that the video section of the site may not be the best place to be looking for recent video. In previous events, the Youtube video site was excellent.

 

Don't fix what ain't broke?..........

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7 hours ago, jbc said:

So, this was posted by the official VOR YouTube channel, but it's not listed in their publicly viewable videos. So they posted it but kept the video unlisted on their account? Is that right?

I'd think it's more likely that I screwed up and just missed it. I'm curious, if the video is unlisted on their channel, where you found it. Because I need to be looking there in the future.

jbc, mate...

It's now listened in their publicly viewable videos see here :)

https://www.youtube.com/user/volvooceanracevideos/videos

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44 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Any Idea how the Conditions look like next weekend and beyond and which of the 4 Courses the Race Committee might select?

No

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11 hours ago, jbc said:

So, this was posted by the official VOR YouTube channel, but it's not listed in their publicly viewable videos. So they posted it but kept the video unlisted on their account? Is that right?

I'd think it's more likely that I screwed up and just missed it. I'm curious, if the video is unlisted on their channel, where you found it. Because I need to be looking there in the future.

Same, and it seemed impossible to check youtube to try and find it, fail go to the VOR site and find it without seeing thumbnails telling me the results. Watching these things race in the light is kinda dull, take away the suspense of not knowing the results and it gets really dull. Can someone kick me if there is about to be a windy in port.

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Leg 1 starts in just under 6 Days and 20 Hours....

4 Courses to choose from.....

DMMWXgHW0AAF0js.jpg

Libby Greenhalgh, who was the Navigator on Team SCA in the 2014/2015 VOR thinks the Race Cmt. will pick Course C (Madeira).

Course C –Pennant 3
Start - Albufereta mark to port - Starting pin to port - Cabo de las Huertas mark to port -
Albufereta mark to port - Gate leaving starting pin to starboard and start boat to port - Alicante
leaving mark to port – Illa de Tabarca restricted zone to port - South Gibraltar Exclusion Zone
to port - Madeira Island to starboard - Oeiras Gate - Lisbon Finish
Great Circle Distance 1500 nm

We'll see if she is right.

....BUT that's just a guess estimate by her. There is a low pressure system coming the coming which may throw in some wrinkles for the Race Cmt.

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12 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Any Idea how the Conditions look like next weekend and beyond and which of the 4 Courses the Race Committee might select?

11 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

No

Yes

Windy ...(.com)  and Course R (ound the World)

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I had been on the water during the inPort Race and it had been obvious that Mapfre got it all right. Not only from trimming the sails but also they tacked quicker than anyone else. Less maneuvers did also count for their advantage. Hopefully the others will gain experience quickly, otherwise it will be a MAP/DONG show. I enjoyed the Alicante experience though the booths were standardized and only a small 40ft front container size open for the customer experience. Mainly selling team gear. Interesting that the doorman shut me out when I was about visiting the AKNO team base to talk to Nicolai S. on Sunday, not knowing about the drama within the team. With my press passport it might have looked "wrong" to have a chat when the team tried to recover from loosing the skipper. I than first read it on the FP after having left ALC. The media center had been very empty, nearly paper less, maybe due to the "messages called out" from TtT team and 11th H/VES. All in all the whole ALC VOR base had been very, very clean and being visited by lots of spectators. Long queues on Sunday. Good to be able to watch the start live on YT.

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49 minutes ago, Manfred said:

I had been on the water during the inPort Race and it had been obvious that Mapfre got it all right. Not only from trimming the sails but also they tacked quicker than anyone else. Less maneuvers did also count for their advantage. Hopefully the others will gain experience quickly, otherwise it will be a MAP/DONG show. I enjoyed the Alicante experience though the booths were standardized and only a small 40ft front container size open for the customer experience. Mainly selling team gear. Interesting that the doorman shut me out when I was about visiting the AKNO team base to talk to Nicolai S. on Sunday, not knowing about the drama within the team. With my press passport it might have looked "wrong" to have a chat when the team tried to recover from loosing the skipper. I than first read it on the FP after having left ALC. The media center had been very empty, nearly paper less, maybe due to the "messages called out" from TtT team and 11th H/VES. All in all the whole ALC VOR base had been very, very clean and being visited by lots of spectators. Long queues on Sunday. Good to be able to watch the start live on YT.

Thanks for all your insights Manfred. Good to have someone on the scene down there :)

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5 hours ago, Manfred said:

I had been on the water during the inPort Race and it had been obvious that Mapfre got it all right. Not only from trimming the sails but also they tacked quicker than anyone else. Less maneuvers did also count for their advantage. Hopefully the others will gain experience quickly, otherwise it will be a MAP/DONG show. I enjoyed the Alicante experience though the booths were standardized and only a small 40ft front container size open for the customer experience. Mainly selling team gear. Interesting that the doorman shut me out when I was about visiting the AKNO team base to talk to Nicolai S. on Sunday, not knowing about the drama within the team. With my press passport it might have looked "wrong" to have a chat when the team tried to recover from loosing the skipper. I than first read it on the FP after having left ALC. The media center had been very empty, nearly paper less, maybe due to the "messages called out" from TtT team and 11th H/VES. All in all the whole ALC VOR base had been very, very clean and being visited by lots of spectators. Long queues on Sunday. Good to be able to watch the start live on YT.

I've been watching (and rewatching) the in-port race video, and it's true; Mapfre is seriously on their game. Racing these boats shorthanded around the buoys is super-hard, I realize, but they make it look easy, sailing cleanly and effectively. It's really a joy to watch. A windy in-port might be a different story, and of course none of this necessarily translates to the ocean legs. But they are getting the job done, and just look super-solid doing it.

DF has the speed if they don't need to worry about the short-course tactics and maneuvers; I don't think it's an accident that they (barely) beat Mapfre in the most offshore of the prelim races (the Fastnet).

Bring on Leg 1!

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13 minutes ago, jbc said:

I've been watching (and rewatching) the in-port race video, and it's true; Mapfre is seriously on their game. Racing these boats shorthanded around the buoys is super-hard, I realize, but they make it look easy, sailing cleanly and effectively. It's really a joy to watch. A windy in-port might be a different story, and of course none of this necessarily translates to the ocean legs. But they are getting the job done, and just look super-solid doing it.

DF has the speed if they don't need to worry about the short-course tactics and maneuvers; I don't think it's an accident that they (barely) beat Mapfre in the most offshore of the prelim races (the Fastnet).

Bring on Leg 1!

Who do you think is the Favourite in this first Leg, MAPFRE or Dongfeng? I pick MAPFRE unless Charles can stay with Xabi until the Straits of Gibraltar. You can easily being dropped before the Straits with the fluky Weather in the Merriteranean.

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5 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Who do you think is the Favourite in this first Leg, MAPFRE or Dongfeng? I pick MAPFRE unless Charles can stay with Xabi until the Straits of Gibraltar. You can easily being dropped before the Straits with the fluky Weather in the Merriteranean.

I'd think the odds at this point favor MAPFRE, but hell if I know. I'm excited to find out, though. :-)

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Who do you think is the Favourite in this first Leg, MAPFRE or Dongfeng? I pick MAPFRE unless Charles can stay with Xabi until the Straits of Gibraltar. You can easily being dropped before the Straits with the fluky Weather in the Merriteranean.

MAPFRE is the easy pick, but I would agree.  They have shown they are crisp, make good tactical decisions and really know how to move that boat forward.  What I get from DongFeng is slightly, slightly. less polished at the moment, but...and here's the but, once they find their groove it will be very tight racing.  Question may be which team can sail 1000+ miles in OD thinking longer.  The stats you posted indicated how close these two are so it may be more micro weather that tells the tale.  If you want to win at OD ocean racing then there is no real opportunity to relax, step off the throttle, or take anything but a solid flyer, because right behind there should and will be a boat that will wait for the small mistakes, the small off decisions to take advantage for the pass.  

All that said, Bowie is damn good and while I can agree now with you that MAPFRE planned that in-port start, Brunel made a pile of shit at the start, yet by the end of the race was pushing for second.  he's got a greener team, but his experience and that a few others may really take the rough edges off by the end of leg 1.  Leg 2 will really show the mettle of the teams for the long haul, but leg 1 will truly point a light to the weaknesses needing addressing.

My personal favorites are TtT,  I think they may surprise, but my best hope is they beat Scallywag.  AKN may struggle or, because the worst is past they may gel even better with a heck of a good skipper.  

I look forward to a great start, and will be tracking when I can.  I am glad of going back to leg threads like last time.  kept things closing compact.

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7 hours ago, Manfred said:

I had been on the water during the inPort Race and it had been obvious that Mapfre got it all right. Not only from trimming the sails but also they tacked quicker than anyone else. Less maneuvers did also count for their advantage. Hopefully the others will gain experience quickly, otherwise it will be a MAP/DONG show. I enjoyed the Alicante experience though the booths were standardized and only a small 40ft front container size open for the customer experience. Mainly selling team gear. Interesting that the doorman shut me out when I was about visiting the AKNO team base to talk to Nicolai S. on Sunday, not knowing about the drama within the team. With my press passport it might have looked "wrong" to have a chat when the team tried to recover from loosing the skipper. I than first read it on the FP after having left ALC. The media center had been very empty, nearly paper less, maybe due to the "messages called out" from TtT team and 11th H/VES. All in all the whole ALC VOR base had been very, very clean and being visited by lots of spectators. Long queues on Sunday. Good to be able to watch the start live on YT.

Last race I made it up to Newport for the finish and for a first time visitor, it was quite an experience.  At the moment I plan to go again with the hope the fleet is even tighter in the crossing the line.  Coolest part was seeing SCA still slightly off shore, then having time to watch them finish as the wind played havoc at sunset.  It was amazing to be so close to these boats, the sailors and looking past all the organizational BS, it is hard to not get caught up in the thrill of the moment being there.  

Ready for leg 1, ready for this race.

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Mmh, I forgot to tell that there had been no sail changes at all during the race. Even at the Pro/Am on Sunday or in the practice races on Friday I had not seen sail changes during the "races". Obviously the legs were too short to do a winning move.Instead it looked they had all agreed on the same headsail and used it up and down. Definitely in the ocean legs there will be lots of sail changes and this will separate the good ones from the not so good ones. E.G. VES/11h messed up a tack due to what I think had been an overrun on the "old sheet", thus the "damned slow rolling through the tack" manouver did not look good. There had been a moment of nearly being dead in the water... Easy to sail backwards with bigger waves. Loosing maybe a "country mile".

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5 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Official Distance for Leg 1 per "Race Experts" (Race Control): 1347 Nautical Miles...

DMbKN-SW0AEJvNF.jpg

Possible Routes to Lisbon...

DMbp1i7XUAALxzO.jpg

Routes after Gibraltar taken with low confidence.

Was that with Ramora?  (I played with Ramora so answered my own question).  My route with Remora was slightly different, but it seems the free version uses current weather.  You cant' change to the future.  The official distance may be one thing, looks like it will be a wide range of options.  Looking at the VOR tracker, it seems it did add some new  features, but I am curious if that amazing tracker from the Vendee will be up and running.

This is going to be a more interesting leg 1 then I thought.  If the options are that varied and variable there could be some break outs with the right choice of sail.  I wonder if a strategy for a lower tier (re experience) boat may be to generally stick with a top boat as long as they can, speed testing and experimenting with sail options.  A lot could be learned on this leg.  The real meat comes in leg two.

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@shanghaisailor,

Where are you? Given the wind conditions at the start on Sunday getting around the Alicante Leaving Mark 1st is imperative for Dongfeng, Charles & Pascal if they want any chance of doing well there.

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19 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

This is going to be a more interesting leg 1 then I thought.  If the options are that varied and variable there could be some break outs with the right choice of sail.  I wonder if a strategy for a lower tier (re experience) boat may be to generally stick with a top boat as long as they can, speed testing and experimenting with sail options.  A lot could be learned on this leg.  The real meat comes in leg two.

 

If a less experienced and physically weaker crew tries to mirror another, what usually happens is they maintain contact like a yo yo for 2 days - then the uncertainty of what when they're going to tack or gybe dictating their move causes a fatigue spiral and eventually there's a boat handling mistaken and it is all for naught. 

It sounds trivial - but if you're off watch and before you go down the navigator says next planned maneuver in 2 hrs or 90 minutes, makes the world of diff between someone on deck with no concrete plan looking on the binoculars trying to tell what the other team is doing all the time.

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On 10/18/2017 at 8:42 AM, jbc said:

I've been watching (and rewatching) the in-port race video, and it's true; Mapfre is seriously on their game. Racing these boats shorthanded around the buoys is super-hard, I realize, but they make it look easy, sailing cleanly and effectively. It's really a joy to watch. A windy in-port might be a different story, and of course none of this necessarily translates to the ocean legs. But they are getting the job done, and just look super-solid doing it.

DF has the speed if they don't need to worry about the short-course tactics and maneuvers; I don't think it's an accident that they (barely) beat Mapfre in the most offshore of the prelim races (the Fastnet).

Bring on Leg 1!

I don't necessarily believe these boats are hard to sail around the cans. Main and furling code only... However tactics (port tacking the fleet and going right) and sail handling have shown Mapfre and DF are ahead of the others......

 

If consistent breeze, Mapfre to win by 38 minutes.....    If it's light... anybodies..

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6 hours ago, Miffy said:

 

If a less experienced and physically weaker crew tries to mirror another, what usually happens is they maintain contact like a yo yo for 2 days - then the uncertainty of what when they're going to tack or gybe dictating their move causes a fatigue spiral and eventually there's a boat handling mistaken and it is all for naught. 

It sounds trivial - but if you're off watch and before you go down the navigator says next planned maneuver in 2 hrs or 90 minutes, makes the world of diff between someone on deck with no concrete plan looking on the binoculars trying to tell what the other team is doing all the time.

I get that.  Actually went through that on a small scale with a Chesapeake Bay over night race.  In that case I was navigator, I gave instructions to the deck crew to steer such then went below for rest.  Later I was woken up for two reasons, to confirm my plan and to help in a spinnaker gybe since the fore deck sailor decided he didn't want to work.

Point is, communication between watches is key, I agree, but even if a "weaker boat" can hang with a top boat for some time, they can learn tons along the way.  They all may be professionals, but even at this level, there is acceptance that some are better and if it were me, I'd have no problem poaching sail trim ideas off the top sailor so that maybe in the next leg I can give them a better run.

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6 hours ago, PIL007 said:

I don't necessarily believe these boats are hard to sail around the cans. Main and furling code only... However tactics (port tacking the fleet and going right) and sail handling have shown Mapfre and DF are ahead of the others......

 

If consistent breeze, Mapfre to win by 38 minutes.....    If it's light... anybodies..

Fun Fact....watch the leg start for the 2015 race out of Capetown.  Wind ranges went from "is there a breeze" to "OMFG hold on" and not a boat changed sails.  As I remember they had a J2 and carried it till passing the mark for the ocean leg.

Sure, they could do sail changes, but unless the winds are truly all over the place, observation shows that in a certain range, they can carry a sail a long time and play with keel for balance.  In port will be about tactics, boat handling, trim, and minimal mistakes.  Changing sails on these boats cost boat lengths so need to be carefully decided...in port.  On the ocean they have more leeway, but only if the navigator and skipper feel weather conditions hold enough to offset the boat lengths lost with the gains for the change.

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7 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

@shanghaisailor,

Where are you? Given the wind conditions at the start on Sunday getting around the Alicante Leaving Mark 1st is imperative for Dongfeng, Charles & Pascal if they want any chance of doing well there.

As it is imperative to the other six?  ;-)  

The interesting thought about VOR OD starts.  How much do they matter.  line honors?  With A range of 1400+ to 1500+ miles so would a strong start matter?  I've pondered this since watching all the last race.  Within 30 to 60 minutes of a leg start these boats are split out.  Design? DNA?  But they do.  In this world of OD I posit that letting boats "get away" is not a good thing for being able to catch up is not as easy, passing is not as easy.  I raced OD for many years, OD match for a few and what I learned is that if you lead, you cannot relax, but need to cover, if you follow, you need to mirror than wait for the weak moment and pounce.  Hard enough at the local level...very tough around the world.  This will be a fascinating race to watch.

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Leg 1 Crew Lists

Dongfeng Race Team:
Charles Caudrelier (skipper)
Pascal Bidégorry
Stuart Bannatyne
Jérémie Beyou
Daryl Wislang
Marie Riou
Carolijn Brouwer
Jackson Bouttell
Chen Jinhao (Horace)

Richard Edwards (OBR)

team AkzoNobel:
Brad Jackson (skipper)
Jules Salter
Joca Signorini
Nicolai Sehested
Emily Nagel
Martine Grael
Luke Molloy
Rome Kirby
Brad Farrand

Konrad Frost (OBR)

Team Brunel:
Bouwe Bekking (skipper)
Carlo Huisman
Alberto Bolzan
Kyle Langford
Andrew Cape
Maciel Cicchetti
Peter Burling
Annie Lush
Abby Ehler

Martin Keruzoré (OBR)

Team Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag:
David Witt (skipper)
Alex Gough
Annemieke Bes
Ben Piggott
John Fisher
Luke Parkinson
Steve Hayles
Tom Clout

Jeremie Lecaudey (OBR)

Turn the Tide on Plastic:
Dee Caffari (skipper)
Nico Lunven
Martin Strömberg
Liz Wardley
Annalise Murphy
Francesca Clapcich
Bianca Cook
Lucas Chapman
Bleddyn Mon
Bernardo Freitas

Jen Edney (OBR)

Vestas 11th Hour Racing:
Charlie Enright (skipper)
Simon Fisher
Mark Towill
Phil Harmer
Nick Dana
Tom Johnson
Tony Mutter
Stacey Jackson
Jena Hansen

James Blake (OBR)

MAPFRE:
Xabi Fernández (skipper)
Joan Vila
Pablo Arrarte
Rob Greenhalgh
Antonio "Ñeti" Cuervas-Mons
Blair Tuke
Willy Altadill
Sophie Ciszek
Támara Echegoyen

Ugo Fonollá (OBR)

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Still interesting that Scallywag, having taken the leap to have one woman, have not decided to take two.  Puts them one person down against all the others and two against TtToP.

I wonder if that will be reconsidered as the race evolves.

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It's also quite interesting that Witty said the brought Annemieke on board so he could spend more time with the navigation and not so much because they felt shorthanded in the handling. I wonder how true that is, and how much it is him realizing that he's maybe not as fit as he should be? 

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5 hours ago, DtM said:

Still interesting that Scallywag, having taken the leap to have one woman, have not decided to take two.  Puts them one person down against all the others and two against TtToP.

I wonder if that will be reconsidered as the race evolves.

Dt apart from the weight it looks as though he puts a lot of stock in keeping the team tight and not dropping people out. Also maybe one of reasons Annemieke Bes jumped off the Paintwagon apart from money was she was going to a team with only one women not two, and less at risk of being bumped on one or more legs.

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Alinghi4ever, thanks for the crew lists.  Interesting on the one woman entry for Scally.  That may be an interesting social experiment (lol).

Alas i won't be able to follow as close as I did the last round, but I am thankful VOR upgraded their tracker.  I wonder of FORSS got pulled into help it be somewhat better.  I loved the tracker for the VG that offered routing views.

Looking at Windy, they may have more downwind even after rounding the island and light winds towards the finish.  That light air may be the nail biter towards the end.  

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