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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Was selling your soul to the Italians worth it? 

What's it like having a two year head start on the monohull rule that you and your chums cooked up? 

How did you keep a straight face when telling people that boat type hadn't been decided after you won the cup?

 

any kiwis being offended please calm down I am just messing.

at least the boats sound like there is room to be pretty cool and till keeping the traditionalists happy too 

 

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Is there anything to prevent an Ernesto or Larry funding a second defender and force a defender series as has happened in the past

They have Russell in country, Core boatbuilders in Whangarei and no shortage of talent available already resident in NZ.

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  • Will there be any limiting of computer aids used by the sailors during racing - ie. prohibiting electronic course-planning computers, automatic flight control, weather data calculation etc?
  • How can something like the meteo data-gathering ban actually be policed?
  • Will there be stored power on the boats?

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With respect to a 75ft foiling mono & state of tech, how do you envision oil becoming less relevant? Can he give any examples based on previous experience?  Presumably have to move some ballast etc.

Russell Coutts has suggested he could get back into the game with a move back to Monos. Given Russell is one of the people that could raise the dough, what's your perspective on a defender series and potentially going head to head against Russell to represent the Cup?

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21 minutes ago, thastark@gmail.com said:

With respect to a 75ft foiling mono & state of tech, how do you envision oil becoming less relevant? Can he give any examples based on previous experience?  Presumably have to move some ballast etc.

Russell Coutts has suggested he could get back into the game with a move back to Monos. Given Russell is one of the people that could raise the dough, what's your perspective on a defender series and potentially going head to head against Russell to represent the Cup?

The very first thing said today was by that RNZYS guy, and he said ETNZ would be the Defender.

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2 hours ago, KoW said:
  • Will there be any limiting of computer aids used by the sailors during racing - ie. prohibiting electronic course-planning computers, automatic flight control, weather data calculation etc?
  • How can something like the meteo data-gathering ban actually be policed?
  • Will there be stored power on the boats?

Number 2 at least can be mitigated by having shared Met program of reasonable quality accessible by all teams, that would mean not only would you be playing with being turfed out by cheating, you would also not be gaining much by doing so.

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- Whats up with the bull shit 20% nationality rule?

- WTF is a "key stakeholder"?

- Whats up with closing Challenger entry 2 months before the venue is announced?  Isn't knowing the venue important for potential Challengers to know before committing to the event?

- If Auckland can't get its shit together to host the event, would ETNZ/RNZYS look to another NZ city to host?  The Kiwi's defending in Italy is so absurd it doesn't even warrant a question about it.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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20 minutes ago, WetHog said:

- Whats up with the bull shit 20% nationality rule?

- WTF is a "key stakeholder"?

- Whats up with closing Challenger entry 2 months before the venue is announced?  Isn't knowing the venue important for potential Challengers to know before committing to the event?

- If Auckland can't get its shit together to host the event, would ETNZ/RNZYS look to another NZ city to host?  The Kiwi's defending in Italy is so absurd it doesn't even warrant a question about it.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

- "Whats up with closing Challenger entry 2 months before the venue is announced?  Isn't knowing the venue important for potential Challengers to know before committing to the event?"

Auckland, and for that matter the rest of NZ, is notoriously slow in getting it's shit together when it comes to infrastructure projects.  Give 'em a chance and then years from now theyll' still be discussing the potential fate of the lesser-known banded Westhaven mooring slug.

You're right of course that these two items are back-to-front but Dalts has granted the local nabobs a little extra time to equivocate.

The provision does work nicely for any potential natural, albeit infrequent and unlikely, disasters.   But ........

make no mistake, this venue timing clause is all about holding an anti-aircraft gun to the heads of national and local administrators. 

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Will the videos from ac34 and ac35 be published on youtube?

Will the race management publish boats telemetry as it has been done before?

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5 hours ago, Marco Panti said:

Is there anything to prevent an Ernesto or Larry funding a second defender and force a defender series as has happened in the past

They have Russell in country, Core boatbuilders in Whangarei and no shortage of talent available already resident in NZ.

RNZYS.

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What's GD's view on the next edition of the next VOR? 8 boats, just 7 sailing... Have his ambition (as mentioned in the AC press conference) to bring events like the Vendee, AC and VOR closer together influenced VOR on the decision to reschedule 2019/-20 race?

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How much does your time racing around the planet shape your thinking on the protocol.

When you knew it would probably be a mono hull, did you encourage Tuke and Burling to get helm time on big boats and do the Volvo?

 

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Hey Grant, great result, you did us proud, how much did the public turning on you and ETNZ spur you on and when are you putting out an Autobiography.

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With Boat2 launched after Feb 2020 and three "Acts" in that year, looks like Challengers would move to AKL only late in that year, shortly before the Christmas Race. So, not an incentive for major infrastructures?

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What future does he consider the boats to have after the cup?  

Will there be any concessions to the no two boat testing rule to allow teams to do promotional sailing for their sponsors or just to get advertising images with two boats in?

Which of the potential challengers does he regard as the biggest threat under this protocol? 

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Seedings from preliminary regattas to qualifiers. How specifically does that work, the protocol is vague?

Residency requirement, what is this really about? 380 days residency does not bind anyone to a country, this has nothing to do with "competition between nations". The given explanation that it is about persuading sailors to decide where they want to live is risible, what on earth has that objective got to do with the Cup? The requirement actually seems designed specifically to inconvenience Artemis, given the short Swedish sailing season. What's it really about?

Everyone has to use a website provided by COR/D. Is this not just a continuation of the same old Russell-vision control-freakery against which you previously railed?

Alternative venue in Italy - the explanation that this is a provision against natural disaster is hilariously weak. Cut the crap, we expect plain speaking from you, it's about holding a gun to Auckland's head, isn't it?

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The protocol contemplates that if circumstances warrant, the AC can be held in Italy........what circumstances would lead to the AC being moved to Italy?   If there are no circumstances, why was it even mentioned?

In hindsight, given ETNZ turned out to show so much form in foiling catamarans, does he wish that he had his options open and had not been forced to select monohulls by the Italians?  

Does he think the 75 monohull will be (i) Non foiling, (ii) Foiling on parts of the course, but not on all of the course or (iii) Fully foiling, upwind and downwind, subject to wind conditions. ......if iii, will there be foiling tacks and foiling gybes?

Will a 75' monohull allow old people to sail in the AC again? Will there be a spectator seat on the back of the boat for the rich and famous? Will you be on the boat as crew again?

Russell meets the nationality requirement for the NZ team. Are there any circumstances where RC would be welcomed back to contribute to ETNZ's defence?

If the monohull is non-foiling, will Pete Burling be off the helm in favor of someone with skills in traditional displacement sailing?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Clapham said:

Is the: "move it to Italy" a club to beat NZ's local and central govt to provide significant funding?

I'm curious too about what the exact terms are that ETNZ is looking to get out of the Host Venue agreement. It may extend beyond the mentioned 30K sq meters for bases, perhaps they also want a venue fee - to be used for running the event and/or to fund ETNZ people and operations directly? If the latter, then Auckland may not have much competition from some hypothetical Host Venue in Italy.

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12 minutes ago, nav said:

^ It's a conspiracy clearly 

No, it's a question about what all ETNZ wants out of the Host Venue agreement. What is the minimum they will accept, before Mr Prada gets to take his Prada Cup to Italy instead?

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5 minutes ago, nav said:

They have said - it's just you spinning beyond that, as usual

Link?

Mayor Goff said the city will contribute towards infrastructure but went on to say they would not address commercial sponsorship; as if it was an issue at play.

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^ not me doing the talking..

Goff said council funding would be limited to infrastructure.

"We're not putting money into the cup race, or into Team NZ or the other syndicates. What we're doing is providing the land space that the village needs and a pad to build the bases on."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11928014

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Simple yes or no please... will the boats be allowed under the rules to have stored energy or motors running for any of trimming sails, moving keels or moving foils?  Yes or no!

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Is he really planning to invite BA to Auckland on a 75' mono? Given infrastructure issues at the venue, has he considered dock replacement budgets?

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Great, great questions!  I have two hours before we get on, so add more if you have them and thanks.

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5 hours ago, IPLore said:

Why no tank testing? 

Keep the costs down and to "level" the development playing field.

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10 minutes ago, Wolkenzug said:

What is his take on the story that the commodore of the Royal Yacht Squadron was seen running around Bermuda with an envelope in hand?

He was out training for a half marathon and couldn't find a mailbox

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The Isle of Man TT has been run on two wheels for many years and is popular with the fans.

Dalts is a keen aficionado of the TT.

However there are rumors that an Italian fashion company has offered to sponsor it with the pre-condition that the TT move to a four wheel format so that Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati and Alfa Romeo can have competitive entries. How does dalts feel about this? Does he think that the event should accept the Italian money or stick with the fast exciting format that the fans love?

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1 minute ago, IPLore said:

The Isle of Man TT has been run on two wheels for many years and is popular with the fans.

Dalts is a keen aficionado of the TT.

However there are rumors that an Italian fashion company has offered to sponsor it with the per-condition that the TT move to a four wheel format so that Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati and Alfa Romeo can have competitive entries. How does dalts feel about this? Does he think that the event should accept the Italian money or stick with the fast exciting format that the fans love?

How much are they offering again?

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Will Peter Burling and Tukey be allowed to say what they really think of the new protocol or do they have to toe the party line in order to keep their jobs?   You have always been outspoken, Do you encourage the next generation of kiwis to be equally outspoken or are they going to be more diplomatic?

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1 minute ago, IPLore said:

The Isle of Man TT has been run on two wheels for many years and is popular with the fans.

Dalts is a keen aficionado of the TT.

However there are rumors that an Italian fashion company has offered to sponsor it with the pre-condition that the TT move to a four wheel format so that Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati and Alfa Romeo can have competitive entries. How does dalts feel about this? Does he think that the event should accept the Italian money or stick with the fast exciting format that the fans love?

crap analogy, the TT has been raced on two wheels since the beginning, that AC has been raced on one hull from the beginning until uncle Russ and uncle Larry added the "4 wheels"

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Just now, Gutterblack said:

crap analogy, the TT has been raced on two wheels since the beginning, that AC has been raced on one hull from the beginning until uncle Russ and uncle Larry added the "4 wheels"

Analogy? :wacko:   I am just curious about what Dalts would think about the TT on 4 wheels.  My understanding is that many would like to see a driver and navigator in each car and regular pits stops so that we have real mechanical skills rather than just one guy on a bicycle wearing a helmet....and a greater emphasis on team work (provided the team meets nationality standards).

No analogy intended, but I think Clean can talk about Dalts interests outside sailing and Dalts is passionate about motor bikes.

 

So okay...Clean rephrase my question and just ask dalts about whether he likes racing bikes on 2 wheels because they are fast and a simple test of man and machine?....and does he think the AC could be similar someday?

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If Dalts could do whatever the f#@k he really liked and didnt have to make Italians, City Councils, sponsors etc, happy.....and all he really wanted to do was have the greatest match race on the planet between the two best teams of sailors on the planet....one team from New Zealand and the other team from another country.....no holds barred...no constraints...no politics......WHAT FORMAT would he use?  Doesnt have to be realistic, doesnt have to be practical, dont worry about what sponsors think, because this is an academic question...call it the "Dalts Cup" .....if it was his personal event and he got to choose anything he liked with no worry about expense. Imagine a billionaire gave him $100m and said "host the most exciting match race of all time"

What would he do?

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8 minutes ago, IPLore said:

What will happen to ETNZ's cat from the last AC?.....Will there be an AC museum in NZ?

It's on a ship to NZ, almost there. No plans for it yet but Shoebridge said the Maritime Museum is one possibility.

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16 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

- "Whats up with closing Challenger entry 2 months before the venue is announced?  Isn't knowing the venue important for potential Challengers to know before committing to the event?"

Auckland, and for that matter the rest of NZ, is notoriously slow in getting it's shit together when it comes to infrastructure projects.  Give 'em a chance and then years from now theyll' still be discussing the potential fate of the lesser-known banded Westhaven mooring slug.

You're right of course that these two items are back-to-front but Dalts has granted the local nabobs a little extra time to equivocate.

The provision does work nicely for any potential natural, albeit infrequent and unlikely, disasters.   But ........

make no mistake, this venue timing clause is all about holding an anti-aircraft gun to the heads of national and local administrators. 

To be fair, you cant just magic up infrastructure in 3 months and from what I have seen it will be an amazing venue and location.

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17 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

 

make no mistake, this venue timing clause is all about holding an anti-aircraft gun to the heads of national and local administrators. 

Has RG been recruited to pick up a rifle and join the Read, Fire, Aim mission?

America's Cup - Italy a better than even option for Cup Defence venue

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Americas-Cup---Italy-a-better-than-even-option-for-Cup-Defence-venue/157627?source=rss

Funny here, there could be more of this sentiment ahead 

https://mobile.twitter.com/marcorubino/status/913853988503683072

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Someone said 12 crew onboard in the Q&A. That seems light to me, for a 75 foot monohull. Will that include additional power for sail handling or are we going to see some 4 armed dudes sailing these boats?

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3 minutes ago, nav said:

KS said 10-12 depending on which option they finally go with IIRC

Either way, a good Q to GD may be around if he plans to run two crews for during the 2 boat testing he's allowed for 10 weeks. And, if the 'other' sailors can be rent-a-hand pro's from anywhere, free of the nationality rules.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

How do you pronounce TSLG, 'Title Sponsor Liason Group' - in Mauri? Does it sound like the same thing when said in Italian?

:( Batting 100

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7 hours ago, IPLore said:

Why no tank testing? 

 

To me it seems possible that this point favour ETNZ and LR as they might have spent a lot on developping state of the art cfd solvers over the last cycles, which would give both of them a head start to every other team when starting with a brand new concept (than maybe oracle).

This doesn't seem like a cost cutting measure to me. Ask if GD think this makes it easier for new teams to be competative and how this saves money.

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Really curious about stored power. Will there be hydraulic accumulators? Motors? Some kind of (lithium?) battery cell with a specific (regulated) capacity?

 

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1 hour ago, A-NU-START said:

Someone said 12 crew onboard in the Q&A. That seems light to me, for a 75 foot monohull. Will that include additional power for sail handling or are we going to see some 4 armed dudes sailing these boats?

I thought the same re: crew numbers, the Maxi 72 class can have maximum of 20 on board, I was thinking around 15 may have been the number for the AC75.

10-12 leads me to believe most sails will be on furlers and stored power will be in for sail control, if not, there's going to be some pretty huge & pretty weary grinders at the end of a days sailing.

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

How do you pronounce TSLG, 'Title Sponsor Liason Group' - in Mauri? Does it sound like the same thing when said in Italian?

 

1 hour ago, nav said:

:( Batting 100

Oh no, did the phone change that from Māori? Crime of crimes!

The much larger point, in case your head is buried too far underwater in the Koolaid, is that PRADA (yes, spelled in ALL CAPS even in the Protocol) is in full control of most everything commercial in AC36. The CSS will be called THE PRADA CUP, and the AC will be the AC PRESENTED BY PRADA.

Pointing to the largest elephant in the room being Italian rather than anything 'native' NZean apparently flew far above where your deeply buried eyes and ears were....

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Since he probably won't answer any design questions at this time will answer some venue questions. Will it be closed course racing or will there be some offshore element to it. Would he consider Lake Taupo as a venue. Will the race, if not in Auckland, would it be in Italy or maybe Dubi where there is possibly more money for infastucture? Is he still enthusiastic about his part in representing the Americas Cup in New Zealand?

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On 9/28/2017 at 10:36 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

Talking to Dalts on Skype tomorrow.  Ask your questions of him now.

 

Protocol here.

It might be too late but ...

29.3 It doesn't seem fair that the teams have to pay for any event shortfall. This could be an unlimited expense at the result of other organisations overspend. This is like signing a blank check
38.7 COR/D Access to film teams training - that doesn't seem fair
53.1 COR/D make up the arbitration panel with no independent member - this doesn't seem fair
20.1 COR/D to appoint an "independent" regatta director - that doesn't seem fair

Grant - you make many references in your press conference to this being a fair protocol - but on a quick read it appears anything but.

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9 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

 

Oh no, did the phone change that from Māori? Crime of crimes!

The much larger point, in case your head is buried too far underwater in the Koolaid, is that PRADA (yes, spelled in ALL CAPS even in the Protocol) is in full control of most everything commercial in AC36. The CSS will be called THE PRADA CUP, and the AC will be the AC PRESENTED BY PRADA.

Pointing to the largest elephant in the room being Italian rather than anything 'native' NZean apparently flew far above where your deeply buried eyes and ears were....

We're happy to be there as the best in the world at sailing, and let the sponsors be there as the best in the world at fashion design, perhaps OTUSA can turn up and be the best in the world at being a bunch of cunts ;-)

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1 hour ago, MischiefBDA said:

It might be too late but ...

29.3 It doesn't seem fair that the teams have to pay for any event shortfall. This could be an unlimited expense at the result of other organisations overspend. This is like signing a blank check
38.7 COR/D Access to film teams training - that doesn't seem fair
53.1 COR/D make up the arbitration panel with no independent member - this doesn't seem fair
20.1 COR/D to appoint an "independent" regatta director - that doesn't seem fair

Grant - you make many references in your press conference to this being a fair protocol - but on a quick read it appears anything but.

Good on you for reading it :-)

29.3 - How else would you suggest this is covered? Interestingly for the Match RNZYS is covering all overages even though there will be a challenger, so this seems pretty fair right?

38.7 - "in consultation with the competitor" this is more about "you must agree a time to let us get some promo stills, videos and interviews" rather than "you are required at all times to let us be out on the water with x-ray vision"

53.1/20.1 COR/D must to agree though right? Surely that makes it an independent, assuming COR/D are not in cahoots with each other (which might be your point, but again, who would you want to decide on this? The other challengers are unlikely to easily agree easily / in time etc.) AC35 Protocol had HIYC as the other decider until they bailed and then GGYC had to switch to a 'challenger committee'. Why should this be any different in regards do agreeing with COR assuming they still exist?

42 B.2 betrays that fact that much of this document was written with Flickr was still a thing! ;-)

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13 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Has RG been recruited to pick up a rifle and join the Read, Fire, Aim mission?

America's Cup - Italy a better than even option for Cup Defence venue

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Americas-Cup---Italy-a-better-than-even-option-for-Cup-Defence-venue/157627?source=rss

Funny here, there could be more of this sentiment ahead 

https://mobile.twitter.com/marcorubino/status/913853988503683072

Auckland is run by myopic Muppets. They'll do everything possible to fuck up the event. Sadly.

 

[Edit: question for GD] Where do we sign up for the A.C. Tragics Revolutionary Army that will lead the coup attempt against Auckland Council?

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13 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

 

Oh no, did the phone change that from Māori? Crime of crimes!

The much larger point, in case your head is buried too far underwater in the Koolaid, is that PRADA (yes, spelled in ALL CAPS even in the Protocol) is in full control of most everything commercial in AC36. The CSS will be called THE PRADA CUP, and the AC will be the AC PRESENTED BY PRADA.

Pointing to the largest elephant in the room being Italian rather than anything 'native' NZean apparently flew far above where your deeply buried eyes and ears were....

You're acting like a bit of a dick over this Prada thing Stinger.

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16 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Has RG been recruited to pick up a rifle and join the Read, Fire, Aim mission?

America's Cup - Italy a better than even option for Cup Defence venue

 

RG notwithstanding, I'm expecting the next Match to be off Auckland. But if it isn't, I do look forward to reading the case from the more obedient ETNZ fanboys as to why a Match in Cagliari would be a fine and estimable option.

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3 hours ago, dogwatch said:

RG notwithstanding, I'm expecting the next Match to be off Auckland. But if it isn't, I do look forward to reading the case from the more obedient ETNZ fanboys as to why a Match in Cagliari would be a fine and estimable option.

I'm expecting it too but am still curious about how big a 'venue fee' and/or facilities-cost mountain Auckland is being expected to climb. Cagliari looks to have plenty of dock space already available and the primary event sponsor would most likely prefer it be held there anyway - may even offer well above and beyond what Auckland can. So there's some reason for doubt around this for now, some reason for the headlines including in NZ on the subject.

^^ Jays, Yes maybe PRADA will be a great sponsor but let's at least acknowledge that P$B has vested interest in not only the commercial presentation of the event but ~also the outcome~ of the racing. It may be (probably is) an unprecedented arrangement, it deserves at least some comment. Obviously, as CoR with a for-now chummy Defender, P$B also wields serious rule making power over other Challengers.

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6 hours ago, dogwatch said:

RG notwithstanding, I'm expecting the next Match to be off Auckland. But if it isn't, I do look forward to reading the case from the more obedient ETNZ fanboys as to why a Match in Cagliari would be a fine and estimable option.

It's not going to happen, DW so why waste the energy thinking about the possibility?

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Only because it amuses me to imagine how one or two of your compatriots  here would rush to justify it. I don't mean you. As for wasting energy posting here, we are all guilty as charged on that one.

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17 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Only because it amuses me to imagine how one or two of your compatriots  here would rush to justify it. I don't mean you. As for wasting energy posting here, we are all guilty as charged on that one.

To be clear. It was an open threat to the hostile commie city council in Auckland. 

If it did all turn to shit, I know who the rate payers up there would blame.

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5 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Only because it amuses me to imagine how one or two of your compatriots  here would rush to justify it. I don't mean you. As for wasting energy posting here, we are all guilty as charged on that one.

That my friend is true.

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On 9/30/2017 at 9:06 AM, ~Stingray~ said:

Has RG been recruited to pick up a rifle and join the Read, Fire, Aim mission?

America's Cup - Italy a better than even option for Cup Defence venue

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Americas-Cup---Italy-a-better-than-even-option-for-Cup-Defence-venue/157627?source=rss

Funny here, there could be more of this sentiment ahead 

https://mobile.twitter.com/marcorubino/status/913853988503683072

The hurt from the conspiracy of the defender and the Northern hemisphere syndicates to void their negotiations for an Auckland event for AC35, aided and abetted by dysfunctional local authorities, is still fresh in Kiwi memories. A victory before a secret Arbitration Panel hearing and a healthy multimillion dollar judgement has helped but most of all it was a valuable lesson for ETNZ to acquire some leverage over the local political rabble.

There's an edge to RG's headline but the article is a very fair piece of reporting and commentary on the current state of affairs here.  

There are no obvious easy options here for AC infrastructure, especially when you get politicians talking about expensive "legacy" facilities.

 

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He's always either to pushy or too weak for you right?

He is not insisting, he is negotiating and trying to achieve a good result for the city, the country, the team, the event and the visitors.

He has used three 'ploys' towards those ends, one: announcing an alternative (as per 'the Rome option' in a past AC), two: comparing the significance of the teams achievements to those of other NZ World Champions, three: future benefits.

They all just need to get on with it now.....

 

Bases hanging from the bridge - problem solved! :D

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37 minutes ago, nav said:

He's always either to pushy or too weak for you right?

He is not insisting, he is negotiating and trying to achieve a good result for the city, the country, the team, the event and the visitors.

He has used three 'ploys' towards those ends, one: announcing an alternative (as per 'the Rome option' in a past AC), two: comparing the significance of the teams achievements to those of other NZ World Champions, three: future benefits.

They all just need to get on with it now.....

 

Bases hanging from the bridge - problem solved! :D

Knowing what the requirements are, beyond just the mentioned 30K sq m, may well determine if those requirements can be met.

There are also the timing deadlines as requirements (for the Host Venue agreement and then for construction-completion) and so the 'requirements' may be relevant also to an ability to meet those dates. An interesting question, should time get tight, will be whether P$B will agree to a Protocol change that delays those published dates. He could instead hold GD's feet to the fire and take the whole thing to Italy.

 

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We have a few areas that could be used but they all require political decision that have the corresponding political risk. Boldness is not a hallmark of local politics here, last time the bases were easy peasy because the land was available and undeveloped, now its all changed and just like any big city waterfront close to the CBD is very very expensive and open spaces are hard to find.

I am sure the local councilors are working on it very hard, but any choice will involve the public purse so the it needs to factor in the long term public good. As we have seen in Bermuda, white elephants are not politically popular. They need to plan for two scenarios, keeping the cup and losing the cup. If keeping, how do they justify the public purse keeping a vast base area locked up until the next defense and if losing how do they recover their costs. A lot will depend on the business analysis from the last round here, however I am 99% sure they will find a good solution. 

I think giant pontoons in Westhaven Marina would be well worth exploring, 

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I did some reading about the Port and even just moving (and then transporting them by land back to Auckland buyers) the car import operations looks nigh impossible logistically. Pontoons somewhere, or a Westhaven buildout, or a new pier north-side somewhere across the water, all seem more viable than on any Port property.

How deep is the water around the Devonport Ferry terminal? Maybe they could rebuild or add to that?

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

I did some reading about the Port and even just moving (and then transporting them by land back to Auckland buyers) the car import operations looks nigh impossible logistically. Pontoons somewhere, or a Westhaven buildout, or a new pier north-side somewhere across the water, all seem more viable than on any Port property.

How deep is the water around the Devonport Ferry terminal? Maybe they could rebuild or add to that?

Devonport is deep enough, but its extremely inconvenient to get to (unless they ran some new high-frequency ferry rides during the cup). It also doesn't have the land space required. GD voiced a rather specific 30,000 square metres, which rules quite a few wharfs out and some specific ones in. I'm thinking they already know which one they want and it's just a case of trying to get it. For my money the most likely options are:

Wynward Wharf - plenty big enough, and planned to be levelled and redeveloped in the future anyway.
Queens Wharf - would be great except it's ready got The Cloud and Shed 10 on it which at first thought makes it a non-starter, but having a closer look, The Cloud would make a great AC village space, and Shed 10 could become part of a compound(s), along with the area around it. They could also take on the other side of Captain Cook wharf to create a bay of sorts, but as you point out this is heavily used and there's frequently a massive car-transport ship berthed there so the Ports Of Auckland would need to come up with a plan for where to relocate ships - perhaps onto the other side with some modifications.

FWIW the Ports Of Auckland are widely scorned by Aucklanders for their monopolising of the water front and recent attempts to carry out redevelopment in a bid to try and increase the investment and therefore expense of handing over land back to the city for better use. It may be the GD is in the anti-PoA camp and is trying to use the AC to finally get the typically apathetic council to confront the issue and get some land back for better use than a fucking waterfront carpark for cars with no owners.

 

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