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Bull City

Harken Screecher Furling System

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I'm thinking about one of these to use on my asymmetric-type sail for casual PHRF racing. I usually race with one crew. We're both in our 60s, and this looks like it would make things easier. Depending on the situation, I would probably rig it just prior to hoisting. My boat is 27', 3200 lbs. The asymmetric is 245 SF; the the tack is attached at the stem, and the forestay meets the deck about 2 feet aft of the stem.

Has anyone used this system for an Asymmetric style sail? If so, how do you like it?

Thanks.

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Not sure what you are asking.  Are you asking about the performance of screecher type sails? In my experience screecher is a term used mostly by multi hulls. More common useage for mono hulls is Code Zero. Both are close reaching spinnaker type sails that are roller furled on an anti torsion luff rope. In which case the Harken Reflex furler system is over kill, much better than it needs to be. There are cheaper options available.

If you asking about the performance of the new Harken Reflex anti torsion rope system? Then you are probably interested in top down furling for an asymmetrical spinnaker. I don't have direct experience with the Harken Reflex system. I do have experience with top down furling.

When it works it is a thing of beauty, but it only worked half the time. It furled fine but when you tried to deploy the sail it would only unfurl part way. Resent knowledge has it that if you don't "relax" the anti torsion rope after the furl while there is still tension on the rope that when you do release tension by dropping the sail, the anti torsion rope will "relax" and unwind a bit capturing a bit of the sail and winding it backwards. This will lock up the sail and keep it from deploying completely. The Harken Reflex furler system is supposed to eliminate that problem.

Don't understand your comment about "rigging it just prior to hoisting". There is no rigging. The spinnaker is already furled around the anti torsion rope, you just hoist it and unfurl it. Each spinnaker needs its own dedicated anti torsion rope.

There have been a number of threads regarding top down furling and Code Zero.

 

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On 9/30/2017 at 0:36 PM, Bruno said:

Doesn't that require a torsion stay?

It's not clear (at least to me) on the Harken website, but my sailmaker says that for what I'm considering, it would need a torsion stay.

On 10/1/2017 at 7:31 AM, sailorman44 said:

 

Not sure what you are asking.  Are you asking about the performance of screecher type sails? In my experience screecher is a term used mostly by multi hulls. More common useage for mono hulls is Code Zero. Both are close reaching spinnaker type sails that are roller furled on an anti torsion luff rope. In which case the Harken Reflex furler system is over kill, much better than it needs to be. There are cheaper options available.

If you asking about the performance of the new Harken Reflex anti torsion rope system? Then you are probably interested in top down furling for an asymmetrical spinnaker. I don't have direct experience with the Harken Reflex system. I do have experience with top down furling.

When it works it is a thing of beauty, but it only worked half the time. It furled fine but when you tried to deploy the sail it would only unfurl part way. Resent knowledge has it that if you don't "relax" the anti torsion rope after the furl while there is still tension on the rope that when you do release tension by dropping the sail, the anti torsion rope will "relax" and unwind a bit capturing a bit of the sail and winding it backwards. This will lock up the sail and keep it from deploying completely. The Harken Reflex furler system is supposed to eliminate that problem.

Don't understand your comment about "rigging it just prior to hoisting". There is no rigging. The spinnaker is already furled around the anti torsion rope, you just hoist it and unfurl it. Each spinnaker needs its own dedicated anti torsion rope.

There have been a number of threads regarding top down furling and Code Zero.

 

I asking about experience with the Harken furling system that they call the "Screecher Furling System," not the sail itself.

http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=5255&taxid=537 

What I mean by "rigging it just prior to hoisting," is that I would like to keep the sail, sheets and furling system (drum & upper swivel) attached, and in a bag below until I'm ready to use it. Then I would shackle it to the stem fitting and halyard, hoist and unfurl.

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I have a screecher / CZ on my multihull.  I too am thinking about continuous furler to replace my drum furler as I have issue with twists of the furling line.  The reflex is not for a CZ as the CZ/Screecher I use has a line in the luff of the sail.  It would work for an asym.

My question to the group is on continuous furlers are there any preferences?  Many manufacturers (Selden cx, Facnor, Bamar Rollgen Code, Profurl NEX)  Also, for those who have these mounted on sprit with tackline, how do you keep the furling process from twisting at the bottom of the furler?  Seems there would be a lot more play there than if it was hard connected to the sprit as my drum currently is. 

Thanks all.

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I think that I am getting some of the issues now. SS sleeve has to be covered with plastic to avoid snagging, particularly on top down with a nylon cloth. You can use a wire luff stay in a CZ at about 1/8th the cost of the reflex per foot, also cheaper terminations, but must stay coiled to avoid kinks. Theoretically you could interchange  a furler amongst several sails with dedicated torsion/luff stays which would save $1,000s in hardware but slow sailhandling and make it more complex at the pointy end. Sy sunday said elsewhere that he used a sk78 core so something like Dynex Dux, to reduce reflex twisitng (which causes poor unfurls and furls) he covered it in SS sleeve, like Harken. The next step seems like it would be to have a torsion cable that doesn't require a cladding to avoid reflex twisting backwards. I wonder about sk78 in a flexible matrix, maybe a really high mod epoxy?

Btw i have a Schaefer CZ furler with wire but I have had issues getting a good roll up with it at bad times. A continuous furler that never bottoms out the spool seems like a worthwhile upgrade.

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6 hours ago, firstlight said:

I have a screecher / CZ on my multihull.  I too am thinking about continuous furler to replace my drum furler as I have issue with twists of the furling line.  The reflex is not for a CZ as the CZ/Screecher I use has a line in the luff of the sail.  It would work for an asym.

My question to the group is on continuous furlers are there any preferences?  Many manufacturers (Selden cx, Facnor, Bamar Rollgen Code, Profurl NEX)  Also, for those who have these mounted on sprit with tackline, how do you keep the furling process from twisting at the bottom of the furler?  Seems there would be a lot more play there than if it was hard connected to the sprit as my drum currently is. 

Thanks all.

I've had Karvers and ProFurls work well all around, although the ProFurls are more maintenance intensive.

 

In terms of the furler twisting, this is an issue I've experienced before, and it turns into a clusterfuck real quick. We've always used a 2:1/3:1 or hard attachement direct, and as long as it's tight enough to produce a good furl (pretty tight) then it will not "capsize" (ie. overcome the tackline and the drum casing begins to spin with the cable). The biggest concern we've had with this is is while easing the tackline to lift the halyard off lock, the drum can capsize, but with adequate turns of the sheet around the sail post-furl, this doesn't cause any worry with the sail deploying, only extra time in derigging the fouled furling line.

 

4 hours ago, Bruno said:

I think that I am getting some of the issues now. SS sleeve has to be covered with plastic to avoid snagging, particularly on top down with a nylon cloth. You can use a wire luff stay in a CZ at about 1/8th the cost of the reflex per foot, also cheaper terminations, but must stay coiled to avoid kinks. Theoretically you could interchange  a furler amongst several sails with dedicated torsion/luff stays which would save $1,000s in hardware but slow sailhandling and make it more complex at the pointy end. Sy sunday said elsewhere that he used a sk78 core so something like Dynex Dux, to reduce reflex twisitng (which causes poor unfurls and furls) he covered it in SS sleeve, like Harken. The next step seems like it would be to have a torsion cable that doesn't require a cladding to avoid reflex twisting backwards. I wonder about sk78 in a flexible matrix, maybe a really high mod epoxy?

Btw i have a Schaefer CZ furler with wire but I have had issues getting a good roll up with it at bad times. A continuous furler that never bottoms out the spool seems like a worthwhile upgrade.

 

I personally prefer multiple sails/cables on the same drum, as it saves weight, makes maintenance easier (keep one spare and dry, swap when needed), the drum doesn't bang around on deck while the sail is being stacked, and you don't have to run the furling line every time. Only really an issue with larger boats where the leads have to be perfect, or running under deck to the clutch bank.

 

Only downside is using top-down systems (Karver at least) where you can't disconnect the sail/cable from the drum without removing the lashing for the tack.

 

HW

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