Halcyon Yachts

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Every dollar put into a wood boat is a dollar less that you will ever have.  There are two reasons to put money into a wood boat.  1) You are crazy.  2) You are in love.  It is of tremendous help to be both.

Allen

L-36 #5

L-36.com

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As a friend of mine, who restores wooden boats, puts it, "Here's my basic business proposition: you have a boat worth $10,000. We'll put another $10,000 into it and when we're all done, we'll have a boat worth $10,000."

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On 3/17/2018 at 6:10 PM, Tom Keffer said:

As a friend of mine, who restores wooden boats, puts it, "Here's my basic business proposition: you have a boat worth $10,000. We'll put another $100,000 into it and when we're all done, we'll have a boat worth $10,000."

Fixed.  Just ask the owners of the L-36 Winsome III.  They might have got a little over 10, but they were asking 20 for a year first... 

 

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Having spent yesterday afternoon on the couch watching almost all of the episodes on the channel since sailing got cancelled, I’d have to say it’s one of the best sailing channels on YouTube. Stacked full of useful information and very well presented. 

I hope he is able to keep the quality content going for the rest of the build and beyond! 

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What a great history this boat has.  Well done tracking it down.

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That guy from Georgia is a true character.  

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Great video and storytelling! 

    I live in the heart of the Naval Oak belt on the Gulf Coast and that operation in Georgia is a national treasure. When they showed the big Live Oak that was proclaimed to be the largest I thought back to a tree that was known as the 'Inspiration Oak' that was right across the road from my old boatshop/cabinet shop on Fish River in Baldwin County Alabama.

    I managed to find some info on that tree which was 'girded' by my landlady or one of her inbred bastard sons not long after I gave up my lease on the shop and moved to New Orleans to learn 'plastic boatbuilding' at Seemann Composites. Sometimes I think I should kept my backwoods boatshop but that was 38 years ago. That tree was 28 feet in circumference and a team from Auburn University tried for four years to mitigate the damage caused by the vandalism. They even built an "ICU" tent around the base in a valiant effort to save the tree to no avail.

This was from March 2002

-01398a443aef06d6.jpg

 

-e83a3cf698239b2c.jpg

 

The tree was left standing for decades until fears of injuries from admirers from falling limbs led to the decision to cut it down as seen here.

-7422092126b57132.JPG

    I think that the Auburn foresters were able to count the tree rings and dated the tree at 500 years old!

Full story here

http://blog.al.com/live/2013/11/inspiration_oak_may_be_gone_bu.html

 

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On 1/24/2018 at 10:15 AM, southerncross said:

I like the Japanese scarf joint technique using a block at the center to tighten the fit.

 

Wow! I wish I could build furniture that nice.

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3 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Sometimes I think I should kept my backwoods boatshop but that was 38 years ago

Rasp, I kind of wish you and others had too.  But I think there is growing interest in the craft again and luckily there are pockets that remain around the world.  It's a noble art, wooden boatbuilding, and I wish there was greater respect and reverence in the US like there is in Japan.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_National_Treasure_(Japan)

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Stuff like that video of the Japanese traditional joint is something that I have always admired but when I was younger and tempted to have a go at that sort of expertise with my own hand, I always asked, 'Why go to that much trouble?' Forty years later I just showed my GF that video and she asked the same thing. I now wish that I had just rolled up my sleeves and attempted that joint. I came close with some inspired joinery but that hammering home the tapered wedge and seeing the whole joint draw up nice and tight all around is exceptional.

    When you stop and consider that the beam joint shown gets full structural continuity ( or near so) just through all the clever fitted faces without any metal threaded fasteners it makes sense when you had fine handsaws and chisels as the Japanese artisans did. Apprenticeships that lasted decades in the joinery trades were not uncommon and this video is tribute to that.

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Woodwork like that is closer to art than craft. The only reason to pursue that level of skill is the personal satisfaction it would give you.

In purely practical terms it makes no sense.

Just being able to sharpen your tools to the level required for that sort of work is well beyond where most of us end up.

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Just being able to sharpen your tools to the level required for that sort of work is well beyond where most of us end up.

Speaking of sharp.

 

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Thanks SC, really cool, so quintesimally Japanese. We sometimes watch the various crafting shows on NHK channel.

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Wood plane porn, awesome.

i have around 30 wood planes and an extra half dozen irons and breakers, used to make them years ago just for fun.

i will have to get a micrometer now...

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The latest:

 

Leo's just turned the corner from demolition to restoration. With his new keel timber staged and all the live oak needed for the project milled and on-site, my money's on completion. Hang in there, Leo!

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Videos remind me of a PBS special. 

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Is this standard knowledge for a shipwright or is Leo exceptional in his ingenuity and skills? He seems to have some special genius for the work.  But then I have no idea about wooden boatbuilding.

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On 4/8/2018 at 6:32 PM, Rasputin22 said:

Great video and storytelling! 

    I live in the heart of the Naval Oak belt on the Gulf Coast and that operation in Georgia is a national treasure. When they showed the big Live Oak that was proclaimed to be the largest I thought back to a tree that was known as the 'Inspiration Oak' that was right across the road from my old boatshop/cabinet shop on Fish River in Baldwin County Alabama.

    I managed to find some info on that tree which was 'girded' by my landlady or one of her inbred bastard sons not long after I gave up my lease on the shop and moved to New Orleans to learn 'plastic boatbuilding' at Seemann Composites. Sometimes I think I should kept my backwoods boatshop but that was 38 years ago. That tree was 28 feet in circumference and a team from Auburn University tried for four years to mitigate the damage caused by the vandalism. They even built an "ICU" tent around the base in a valiant effort to save the tree to no avail.

This was from March 2002

-01398a443aef06d6.jpg

 

-e83a3cf698239b2c.jpg

 

The tree was left standing for decades until fears of injuries from admirers from falling limbs led to the decision to cut it down as seen here.

-7422092126b57132.JPG

    I think that the Auburn foresters were able to count the tree rings and dated the tree at 500 years old!

Full story here

http://blog.al.com/live/2013/11/inspiration_oak_may_be_gone_bu.html

 

This is absolutely incredible and heartbreaking, thanks for sharing. By the size of the logs they're bucking it looks like this all went straight to the woodburner/firepit. Damn shame.

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Many sail 'em , fewer build 'em , precious few do both .

Kudos Leo .

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13 hours ago, southerncross said:

Time to send more funds.

Agreed, I need to donate, doing it right now.

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13 hours ago, southerncross said:

Videos remind me of a PBS special. 

That's a good idea.  You should submit this to PBS for consideration.  It's ripe for a series.  

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15 hours ago, Aqua Logic said:

This is absolutely incredible and heartbreaking, thanks for sharing. By the size of the logs they're bucking it looks like this all went straight to the woodburner/firepit. Damn shame.

Aqua,

     You are close with your observation on the way they are cutting up that Inspiration Oak on Fish River. They split those rounds further and then sold chunks of the wood with a printout of the story of the tree and its demise. I think that they were trying to offset some of the money that they had spent saving the tree or perhaps the money was going to fund the park that they were establishing after wrassling the property away from the crazy lady that owned the property. I think they were asking $5 per chunk and raised $30,000 in all. 

   I was into making nunchucks at the time, should have bought a few baulks for doing that. Nothing is tougher than Live Oak except maybe Ironwood or Greenheart. 

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What about looking for a sponsor? The auger bit was almost perfect for a Mikita add

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10 hours ago, Mizzmo said:

What about looking for a sponsor? The auger bit was almost perfect for a Mikita add

Especially that it is cordless while the "nice" corded Dewalt was not able to get through easily...

On SV/Seeker, Doug (who has awesomely plugged Leo's channel multiple times now) gets Dewalt stuff donated to him from the company, or has in the past.  He uses/abuses and gives straight up reviews.  He even tells Dewalt as much, so it is probably a bit risky for them when their stuff fails to perform.  Leo can probably solicit donations of tools from companies as well.

I don't think I'd like to see this turn into normal TV programming, even if it was PBS, and I grew up on and love PBS.  These channels are so much better in the raw form from their creators.  I remember Brian from SV Delos saying he had been approached by some TV outfit offering to turn their channel into legit TV....  that would totally ruin it IMHO.  Just spread the word as much as you can....  There is enough interest in this where if everyone gave $5, or even $1 per episode it would pay for itself easily.

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A chainsaw ripping carriage made by the truck driver who delivered the boat, for a Brit, in Washington, with a parrot  that came with the shop rental, re-building a 1910 gaff cutter... and best of all...  "could of crushed me and all... as well as destroying the boat"   The latter seemed more important to him.

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On 5/5/2018 at 5:04 PM, teamt said:

A chainsaw ripping carriage made by the truck driver who delivered the boat, for a Brit, in Washington, with a parrot  that came with the shop rental, re-building a 1910 gaff cutter... and best of all...  "could of crushed me and all... as well as destroying the boat"   The latter seemed more important to him.

Amid the vapid masses who spend their days staring at pictures of whatever their "friends" had for lunch on F***book we find this. Almost gives me hope for the world...almost.

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Leo’s big advantage is that as a trained professional, the time he spends working out what needs to be done & how to do it is minimal. Really shows how for the guys doing each job for the first time, and having to work out what they’re doing, takes ages. I’d be terrified of taking a chainsaw to that purple heart - the thought of getting it wrong would leave me second and third guessing. 

Leo, what’s your timeframe? Back on the water a year from now? (Minimal interior?)

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Hot chicks on Jack Hammers.:)

This keeps getting better and better.

Go Leo.

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19 minutes ago, overlay said:

Hot chicks on Jack Hammers.:)

This keeps getting better and better.

Go Leo.

Really.   She’s got some chops too.

Tricked out saw is way cool. 

3 phase starter hack.   Nice stuff.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

  She’s got some chops too.

 

 

 

Mmmmm Chops.

Lamb or Pork??

Has she got apple sauce as well?

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Predictions as to when  he finishes this project? Normally I'd say never, but he seems a bit different. As someone above mentioned, what would take me a week of thinking through, he just does.  I'll guess summer 2020. 

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3 hours ago, Uli Kunkel said:

Predictions as to when  he finishes this project? Normally I'd say never, but he seems a bit different. As someone above mentioned, what would take me a week of thinking through, he just does.  I'll guess summer 2020. 

2 years seems like a fair assessment.  He may surprise us.  I would have guessed 5 years to rigging and launching.  

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At some point he is going to have to realize he isn't building a piano.  More power to him if he finishes but he is still taking the damn thing apart. Geeze.... 

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1 hour ago, allene222 said:

At some point he is going to have to realize he isn't building a piano.  More power to him if he finishes but he is still taking the damn thing apart. Geeze.... 

 

Agreed. I get his thought process that now's the time to do it, but it is a 100 yo boat. 

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My old mast opening on the cabin top was an inch off center which led to a huge discussion about how to put in the new mast.  The mast step wasn't centered and the deck was an inch higher from the water on one side.  The boat builder spent a day measuring and fussing with it once it was out of the water.  Finally I said center it on the mast step and center it between the chainplates at the top.  It is 1/2 degree from level at the dock which means I have to move move 50 pounds from the starboard side to the port side and then it is straight.  And yet when the boat was measured by Buzz prior to making the new mast, he said it was one of the most true boats he had ever measured.  Boats are not pianos.  PS, my boat is over 60 years old.

That said, the old repair was not right, too many planks had seams lined up.  That should be fixed and assuming he doesn't have to replace too many frames, I can understand him fixing that.  The other side, which was as built but not as drawn, I sincerely hope he decides it is good enough.  I think he is the only one that can see the "imperfection".

Long ago I gave up trying to make my boat perfect.  Now I prefer to go sailing.  I spend enough time keeping it acceptable.

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If he's got the wood to do the job, I'd be surprised if he didn't use it.

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He clearly knows what he is doing.  I hope he has a realistic estimate of how long it will take.  On my boat I have a saying. Every project takes a "boat week".  There are twelve boat weeks in a year.

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It seems like he has almost enough material to build an new hull following the original plans.

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Leo's got a kind of archaeology going on where he'd got this huge hull so accurately surveyed he can figure out the historical sources of the variances in shape and then produce corroborating historical evidence. But the parrot on the forklift is the best bit. I was arguing some pages back this was going to be a tough rebuild and wouldn't it make more sense to build it up from scratch. But I know how needs to go and still, anyone want to speculate on how much of the original wood remains? 15%? 

The point above about Leo being a pro and most of the others being at best novices, or as we know, full on cranks, is spot on. There is great pleasure knowing that this is the right way to do it so you are learning something real as you watch. 

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Wonder how much sailing Leo does these days?  Doug Jackson?

I’m setting a date to splash my project - not waiting to get everything ‘right’ .  Mast stays up, swing keel box doesnt leak - I’m good to go.  

No videos to follow.

 

Go Leo, go Doug.

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7 hours ago, familysailor said:

It seems like he has almost enough material to build an new hull following the original plans.

Wow! A simple obsevstion neither for or against Leo's current plan has earned a down vote.

Fuck you, Lowly Crew

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On 6/3/2018 at 6:27 PM, blunderfull said:

Wonder how much sailing Leo does these days?  Doug Jackson?

I’m setting a date to splash my project - not waiting to get everything ‘right’ .  Mast stays up, swing keel box doesnt leak - I’m good to go.  

No videos to follow.

 

Go Leo, go Doug.

No videos?  It never happened.  :ph34r:

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Hey ---

 Lowly Crew,

If you have an opinion, spit it out instead of skulking in the shadows down-voting with no discernible pattern.

Join the conversation or go away.

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Hey-

fam,

I was not inclined to respond to you but here goes:

I thought your post inane, banal, pointless, etc., so I responded as my mood took me and is my prerogative.

If a post entertains/informs me or someone uses profanity in a new and unusual way that might elicit a positive response.

I have broken no rules. This is sailing ANARCHY.

Perhaps you should not be such a snowflake, untwist your panties, HTFU, grow a pair, and then go sailing.

 

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Just remember Leo that perfect is the enemy of good enough>

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14 minutes ago, Lynch said:

Just remember Leo that perfect is the enemy of good enough>

I worked for a guy who used to say that "Good enough is perfect".  A lot of wisdom in that.

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1 hour ago, Sandpipper said:

This project reminds me of the paradox of Theseus. Debate away!

Great reference.  You get a gold star.  

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I think Leo already touched on the subject early on in the series. Paraphrasing, his bottom line in concordance with other shipwrights in Port Townsend was that since wooden boats can be repaired in every way and as many times as necessary, there's no inherent paradox. By design, they immortal if we chose to keep them alive.

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On 6/4/2018 at 5:10 AM, allene222 said:

Long ago I gave up trying to make my boat perfect.  Now I prefer to go sailing.  I spend enough time keeping it acceptable.

True and agree totally. 

Why sqaunder your life chasing perfection which in my view is the hardest mistress of all.

Leo has a full scale completely fucked model of what Tally Ho was once on his hands and the lofting process I am afraid is just the start of a very lengthy endeavour.

I don’t want to rain on his parade but boat building on this scale is the male equivalent of giving birth and it can eat you up pretty quick smart.

Was at the slip the other day and came across a yacht that a Australian couple built 700 kilometres from the coast out of steel many moons ago.

He and his wife successfully completed  the build and they had one hell Tasman crossing before settling in Auckland.

As their family grew he decided he needed a larger craft so chose to quarter the yacht and lengthen and widen her.

Many decades passed and the marriage failed bitterly. 

The husband latterly died and the yacht in now very poor condition passed to his son who completed her and now offers charters on the harbour.

Not exactly sure that any of that tale applies to Leo but life is far too short to be landlocked with a parrot and a yacht that does not sail.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

True and agree totally. 

Why sqaunder your life chasing perfection which in my view is the hardest mistress of all.

Leo has a full scale completely fucked model of what Tally Ho was once on his hands and the lofting process I am afraid is just the start of a very lengthy endeavour.

I don’t want to rain on his parade but boat building on this scale is the male equivalent of giving birth and it can eat you up pretty quick smart.

Was at the slip the other day and came across a yacht that a Australian couple built 700 kilometres from the coast out of steel many moons ago.

He and his wife successfully completed  the build and they had one hell Tasman crossing before settling in Auckland.

As their family grew he decided he needed a larger craft so chose to quarter the yacht and lengthen and widen her.

Many decades passed and the marriage failed bitterly. 

The husband latterly died and the yacht in now very poor condition passed to his son who completed her and now offers charters on the harbour.

Not exactly sure that any of that tale applies to Leo but life is far too short to be landlocked with a parrot and a yacht that does not sail.

Hey Eeyore, empty the sand out of your vagina, sit back, and learn what is possible from a highly skilled, very focused  individual.

 

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4 hours ago, Priscilla said:

True and agree totally. 

Why sqaunder your life chasing perfection which in my view is the hardest mistress of all.

Leo has a full scale completely fucked model of what Tally Ho was once on his hands and the lofting process I am afraid is just the start of a very lengthy endeavour.

I don’t want to rain on his parade but boat building on this scale is the male equivalent of giving birth and it can eat you up pretty quick smart.

 

I disagree completely. I reckon he is only about 10% through the build and re-fairing the hull will only add an additional 2%. If he is going to all this trouble he might as well get the lines right otherwise he will wishing he did later in the build. He's moving along at an amazing pace and he can cut corners on the interior fit out, but not the hull where he is now.

3R

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Leo’s been around the classic-boat rodeo long enough to know what he’s got. Good on him.

(It’s the nautical equivalent of doing up a ruined Grand Designs castle; Paging Kevin McCloud?)

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More power to him if he is successful.  My only frame of reference, other than my own wood boat, is Freda.  Freda is a 128 year old 35 foot wood boat that was restored by the Spaulding Wooden Boat Center.  That took 8 years and cost $500k.  Tally Ho is bigger but likely in better shape than Freda was. We will all see but at this point, it looks like he is still taking it apart with the exception of the keel. He is clearly talented and I love the videos.

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 The better he does the basic structural/ lines work, the more appealing/easier to sell later on the project goes.

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17 hours ago, overlay said:

Hey Eeyore, empty the sand out of your vagina, sit back, and learn what is possible from a highly skilled, very focused  individual. 

 

+1000

Nice to sit back and enjoy the process.

Maybe learn something too!!!

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Eeyore here boys.

If sitting on your tuffets watching Leo and the parrot for the next ten years rocks your armchair I wish you all well.

Nothing to learn here apart from many years from now he may or may not have a yacht that floats.

He in reality is not doing anything unique that has not been seen before.

Tally Ho chaps.

 

 

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Prissy, you might have seen it all before, but I'm confident many of the rest of us have not. I for one thoroughly enjoy his videos, his attitude, and his boat, and have supported him and will continue to do so. And personally I am completely in the camp that prefers to go sailing to fixing.

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I never tire of seeing great art performed by a master.  

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I've never seen a 100 yr old wooden yacht get restored. 

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Hey Maui? Ever seen a grown man naked?

 

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2 minutes ago, HFC Hunter said:

Hey Maui? Ever seen a grown man naked?

 

Only when I look in the mirror.  :P

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Well, he’s going for the original lines.

Lofting full-scale- hell that looks like a ton of work.

oh yeah, anyone cruising thru South Georgia with a 18 wheeler - he’s got 5 tons+ of Live Oak that need a lift.

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1 hour ago, blunderfull said:

oh yeah, anyone cruising thru South Georgia with a 18 wheeler - he’s got 5 tons+ of Live Oak that need a lift.

Doesn't hurt to ask.

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I could have saved him a couple of weeks by giving him a box of 24 icepicks which is what we used on the batten floor. Just jam them in without hammering and yank them out just as easily. I've stepped on a missed nail sticking right out of the floor and bleed all over my socked feet. I want to see his 'friend' make French Toast. 

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On 6/26/2018 at 7:32 AM, blunderfull said:

Well, he’s going for the original lines.

Lofting full-scale- hell that looks like a ton of work.

Agree it is a lot of work. What I don't understand is why the plans can't drawn up on Cad (or similar) and then use CNC machine to cut out those frame templates .. or even better  someone can volunteer to do it for him ? 

3R

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38 minutes ago, Third Reef said:

Agree it is a lot of work. What I don't understand is why the plans can't drawn up on Cad (or similar) and then use CNC machine to cut out those frame templates .. or even better  someone can volunteer to do it for him ? 

3R

Exactly what I thought. Would have volunteered if I had known. 

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3 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Exactly what I thought. Would have volunteered if I had known. 

Exactly what I had though too. I'm pretty sure in Solidworks for examples you can run a spline through a series of points and then quantify the fairness. And then just move the points around in an excel sheet or make fair lines and take points off. Of course then it's a short trip to wanting to Cnc rout all the fames out, though cutting templates from fiber board and bandsawing is probably less of a pain when dealing with white oak. 

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7 hours ago, Third Reef said:

Agree it is a lot of work. What I don't understand is why the plans can't drawn up on Cad (or similar) and then use CNC machine to cut out those frame templates .. or even better  someone can volunteer to do it for him ? 

3R

Yer good point and then get the new hull hacked out of a solid block of imitation wood on a  giant 3 D milling machine.

 

Best not to frustrate your self watching any more episodes. You just don't get it, do Ya.

Quite obviously Its all wasted on you.

 

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After he replaces all the frames what are the chances he decides to replace all the planks?

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Nice to see a little wood going back in finally. 

 

Im sorry I laugh a little every time he says "futtock"

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14 hours ago, allene222 said:

After he replaces all the frames what are the chances he decides to replace all the planks?

Chance isn't involved. 100%!

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So what if he does? That's the thing about wooden boats: to maintain them properly, you replace them bit by bit. All the time. You can either do it all at once, or over time as it needs doing (and if you don't do the first, you'll end up doing the second). I'm with Leo. (And Joshua Slocum, FWIW. " “Now, it is a law in Lloyd's that the Jane repaired all out of the old until she is entirely new is still the Jane.") As long as there's something that you can point at that looks enough like a boat - keel, enough frames, enough planking, then you always have a boat.

This is Boadicea. Built 1808 (sic). The only original bits left, AIUI, are two bits of elm in the deadwood. She's still Boadicea.

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Oh, and just came across this. The mould loft at Harland and Wolff, where the Titanic was lofted.

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On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:10 PM, Tom Keffer said:

As a friend of mine, who restores wooden boats, puts it, "Here's my basic business proposition: you have a boat worth $10,000. We'll put another $10,000 into it and when we're all done, we'll have a boat worth $10,000."

 

One of my old mates, on winning a race in his 45' Crocker Ketch, that he has owned for 40+ years....

"Well I've invested 200 grand over the years in a boat that's worth about 20; but at least we finally won a pickle dish"!!

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6 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

So what if he does? That's the thing about wooden boats: to maintain them properly, you replace them bit by bit. All the time. You can either do it all at once, or over time as it needs doing (and if you don't do the first, you'll end up doing the second). I'm with Leo. (And Joshua Slocum, FWIW. " “Now, it is a law in Lloyd's that the Jane repaired all out of the old until she is entirely new is still the Jane.") As long as there's something that you can point at that looks enough like a boat - keel, enough frames, enough planking, then you always have a boat.

I wasn't criticizing. The man's putting in the time and money to do it right, as he sees fit, and I think it's great. More power to him. 

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On 7/15/2018 at 5:05 PM, overlay said:

Yer good point and then get the new hull hacked out of a solid block of imitation wood on a  giant 3 D milling machine.

Best not to frustrate your self watching any more episodes. You just don't get it, do Ya.

Quite obviously Its all wasted on you.

 

I absolutely get what he is doing and love the series.

In this project there is a line that can't be crossed to ensure that Tally Ho stays Tally Ho. Power tools, chainsaws and laser guides are in, so I cant see why 3D modelling would not compromise the integrity of the restoration. There are lots of costs and error risks involved in full scale lofting that I reckon he could have avoided. He keeps on telling us about his rapidly diminishing savings (that can't afford full scale 3D milling machines), but could be better used by calling on volunteers to do some modelling and give access to a CNC machine to cut out the templates.

 

3R

 

 

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He's a traditional boat builder. In his shoes, I could see wanting to learn lofting the traditional (hard) way before going the CAD route. If you don't have CAD, you don't have CNC, so even if he wanted to automate template production, it would be a casualty of the approach..

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I can absolutely understand wanting to do it by hand. Buy satisfaction with sweat equity. This is probably the only opportunity he'll have in his life to do this.

AIUI, Bob gets his interns to draw a boat by hand, on paper.

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1 hour ago, Presuming Ed said:

I can absolutely understand wanting to do it by hand. Buy satisfaction with sweat equity. This is probably the only opportunity he'll have in his life to do this.

AIUI, Bob gets his interns to draw a boat by hand, on paper.

It is indeed a cool thing to have all that space availabile for lofting. I guess another advantage is that it makes it easier to compare existing frames to plan.

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