• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
DIYC

25'-30' Sprit Boat For $75k

Recommended Posts

Having sailed only sport boats under 24' I'm thinking it may be time to step into something a bit bigger that I can race PHRF.  Would hopefully have a head for the ladies and either saildrive or outboard in a well so I don't have to hang an outboard over the stern, with max draft of 6' and can get up on a plane in less than 15 knots.  J88 looks great but even used are $125+, Seascape 27 also pricey and worry about light air performance.  Anything I'm missing, or am I looking for something that doesn't exist?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seascape 27 is a great choice but not for 75K. Catalina 275 sport if you can find a used one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently you didn't read the OP's requirements very well.  25-30 ft.  The Ft is 32.5 or so, so bigger than the OP wants.  The FT draws 7.6 ft, while the OP said max draft 6.0 ft.  Other than those two major things, yeah it fits.

Not knocking the FT....its a nice boat.  But it doesnt' it two of the critical criteria...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the j92 probably won't plane easily unless it's blowing over 20. The Far East 28 probably will, just be sure to go larger on kite size than standard because it's a bit small, however it's an outboard engine boat. Option 3 is you buy a Farr 30 and have someone fit a retracting bowsprit for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/3/2017 at 9:17 AM, DIYC said:

Having sailed only sport boats under 24' I'm thinking it may be time to step into something a bit bigger that I can race PHRF.  Would hopefully have a head for the ladies and either saildrive or outboard in a well so I don't have to hang an outboard over the stern, with max draft of 6' and can get up on a plane in less than 15 knots.  J88 looks great but even used are $125+, Seascape 27 also pricey and worry about light air performance.  Anything I'm missing, or am I looking for something that doesn't exist?

I think your requirements will need to be adjusted or compromised some.  saildrive adds a lot of weight in the under 30ft sportboat crowd...and add drag.  4 crew plus sammies and beer adds about 800 lbs to displacement.  5 adds almost a 1000lbs.  Thats why most go with an outboard.  Lets you eliminate the drag (you wanted to plane in less than 15 right?) and place the weight down low over the keel (you wanted to plane right?).  Outboard in a well adds drag, even with a flap or doors or whatever.  Plus the extra "structure" for the flap or doors works against you.  As does the weight of a head or porta-potty.  J/88 is closest, but costs.  J/92s fits, but doesn't really plane till 20.  FE 28R has an outboard on the stern. 

Draft.  Need draft to keep ballast low, so that you don't need as much of it.  That means a boat on the smaller side, not the bigger side of your requirement.  Only 2 boats I can think of that meet the size, draft and planning requirements are Elliott 770, and FE 28R.  Both have outboards.  Right now I'd say your looking for something that doesn't exist.  You can get 3 of your 4 requirements, but not all 4...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what I suspected, what I want just doesn't exist with the exception of possibly the J88 which is too pricey and probably requires a pretty good breeze (15+) to plane.  If I go with a FE28 what have I gained over a Melges 24 other than I need more crew?  Thanks for your responses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/3/2017 at 9:17 AM, DIYC said:

Having sailed only sport boats under 24' I'm thinking it may be time to step into something a bit bigger that I can race PHRF.  Would hopefully have a head for the ladies and either saildrive or outboard in a well so I don't have to hang an outboard over the stern, with max draft of 6' and can get up on a plane in less than 15 knots.  J88 looks great but even used are $125+, Seascape 27 also pricey and worry about light air performance.  Anything I'm missing, or am I looking for something that doesn't exist?

Henderson 30. Outboard in a well.  $42k for this one. No dog in the hunt, just like the boat.  (7' draft though)

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1997/HENDERSON-30-2922385/Seattle/WA/United-States#.Wde7PkyZPoA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, DIYC said:

That's what I suspected, what I want just doesn't exist with the exception of possibly the J88 which is too pricey and probably requires a pretty good breeze (15+) to plane.  If I go with a FE28 what have I gained over a Melges 24 other than I need more crew?  Thanks for your responses.

Faster and more comfortable. Planes to 25+ knots

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't need a bigger sport boat.  Have previously owned U20, M24 and currently have a VX which I absolutely love but cannot sail in phrf races or local regattas.  Just cannot get excited about a heavy displacement boat, nor will I sail anything but an assy on a sprit.  Fortunate to have $75k to spend and might be willing to stretch that, but not if it isn't something fast and fun with the basic amenities I'm looking for.  J88 comes closest but even used are too expensive.  Guess I'll wait, thanks for everybody's input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you don't want a sport boat but you do want a boat with an enclosed head and saildrive that will plane (not surf, but plane) in less than 15kts? I think I agree with Crash that you can't have all of that in a monohull.

Have you considered a multihull or is available dockage an issue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apart from missing a foot and using outboard power, the Seascape 24 might fit your requirements perfectly with performance very similar to the Melges 24 with an added bonus of a generous interior and ability to get into shallow areas. Crew 1-4. Draws 6' keel down - and for 75K the pooper is included.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Likely won't plane in under 15 true, but might take off a little later.  Andrews 28.  I think there are two for sale right now.  One is in San Francisco and one in Annapolis.

Two bedrooms, a bathroom, kitchen, saildrive, lifting keel and rudder, 3,900 lbs +/-.  Might be the ticket.

andrws28_100209-2large.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andrews 28 hulls #2 and 3 are still for sale. #3 near Annapolis has sat unused for too long but is in great shape and decent inventory. #2 in the Bay area is totally tricked out (for the Pac Cup) and has everything. Our 28 gets on plane in 15kts, and is very, very fast in light air (<7kts), but 8-12kts are tough in PHRF cuz once the J36s, etc get up to displacement speed, you get waterlined; you overcome this once she's on plane. The enclosed head, small galley, etc. and great build quality are the real sellers, but she does draw 7'. So, meets almost all of your needs. BTW, I had an Elliott 770 for years and it meets all of your specs but has an outboard; gets on plane in 10-12kts and is wicked fast but pretty wet (think Melges 24); nice sitting headroom room cabin and porta-potti. Out of touch with Elliott crowd so no clue if any good ones are for sale, but only 15 of them in North America. Looked at the Fareast 28 at the boat show yesterday and it meets your requirements except no interior (can have a porta potti) and outboard. Didn't sail it but it looks like a hoot.

Hope this helps,

Greg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2017 at 1:25 PM, carcrash said:

If you can possibly use an outboard, you really, really want to use an outboard. Inboards basically suck in so many ways, especially if you are paying the bills. Hanging an outboard over the transom is not a problem, especially if the boat has an open transom or low freeboard.

If you want to race PHRF, then you can turbo -- add a big sprit, like on a Mini 6.50. Just a big chute is cheap, as is a pole on a universal at the bow held on with dyneema bobstays, whiskers, and any little line to prevent the gravity storm. Use the existing spinnaker pole.

Something like this:

 

Might need to save some of the dyneema to tie the ladies to the head that was also in the OP's brief.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/7/2017 at 10:56 AM, Parma said:

So you don't want a sport boat but you do want a boat with an enclosed head and saildrive that will plane (not surf, but plane) in less than 15kts? I think I agree with Crash that you can't have all of that in a monohull.

Have you considered a multihull or is available dockage an issue?

The AZZURA 310 fits everything but the 6' draft, you'll need to accept 7.3', has Honda sail drive and articulating sprit with 3700# dis.  All Carbon hull w/ semi-enclosed marine head

Barefoot Children

AZ 2014 Big Boat Regatta.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been lurking on this post and wondering if you ever found that unicorn that you were looking for? I myself and debating between an Andrews 28 and Seascape 27...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know a good Henderson 30 that will be coming available very soon.  Will have owner buy an ad once is becomes available.  PM me for details.  The only problem is 7 ft draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Fareast28R has the pooper the ladies need below decks and a backstay that can handle a real man. 

An outboard in a well tends to smoke up the cockpit and stall out from a lack of air, been there. Also, with Bombay doors or any opening in the hull, the drag is excessive and in a Sport boat unacceptable. The new RS21 hull#1 with retractable Torqueedo is going to learn that rule. Been there too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, and the Fareast28R has a rating somewhere between 58 and 62. 

Planing in a Melges 24 at 14 knots would get blown out of the water by a Fareast28R at 18-20 knots in the same conditions. Sailed many regattas in a couple of Melges in the late 90’s and up to ‘03 loved it. The Fareast28R is just a better, more stable, sexy and powerful machine. I’m winter storing mine at our club and the officers are glad to see it there. They say it makes the club look better and we just put about a million into the place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you might well just be asking a bit too much.

28 feet and fast - yeah,  you can do that,  but start adding comfort and machinery and your supposition that the J-88 is somehow "Too Expensive" is a bit hard to swallow - how 'bout YOU go make that much boat and get back to us on what you'd sell it for !

But regardless,  you put an inboard on a 28 footer and expect it to perform,  it's gonna have to be a pretty high-spec build,  and THAT is likely to require draft...

If it was EASY,  to do,  somebody'd be doing it  - and if someone WAS,  I suspect there'd be a well-worn path to their door.

Just for comparison.  my own 1982 Sonoma 30:

29' 10" loa

26 10 lwl

8 ' 9" beam,

6' draft dn /2' up

disp 3,300

working s/a 370,  starts to plane in 15-18 depending on the waves,  no engine,   sitting headroom

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then his best bet might be a Catalina 275.

I was just offering my opinion  

If you were talking to someone else about the J-88, I totally apologize. 

Edited by Sail4beer
Drunken rant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/10/2017 at 5:05 AM, svein99 said:

Apart from missing a foot and using outboard power, the Seascape 24 might fit your requirements perfectly with performance very similar to the Melges 24 with an added bonus of a generous interior and ability to get into shallow areas. Crew 1-4. Draws 6' keel down - and for 75K the pooper is included.

I wouldn't. Dog slow in light airs and even a couple of well sailed examples totally outclassed at by Mumm 30, Fareast 28 and assorted sports boats including a 20 yr old Cork 1720 at a regatta a couple of years ago. Seldom feature in local club racing podium positions. 

That's round the cans. Offshore (coastal) given the right wind (blowing dogs off chains) and sea they are capable of winning. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, TimD said:

I wouldn't. Dog slow in light airs and even a couple of well sailed examples totally outclassed at by Mumm 30, Fareast 28 and assorted sports boats including a 20 yr old Cork 1720 at a regatta a couple of years ago. Seldom feature in local club racing podium positions. 

That's round the cans. Offshore (coastal) given the right wind (blowing dogs off chains) and sea they are capable of winning. 

Probably thinking of the  of the 27 

24 was launched last year 

faster in the light stuff for sure than the 27 

havd sailed both

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, TimD said:

I wouldn't. Dog slow in light airs and even a couple of well sailed examples totally outclassed at by Mumm 30, Fareast 28 and assorted sports boats including a 20 yr old Cork 1720 at a regatta a couple of years ago. Seldom feature in local club racing podium positions. 

That's round the cans. Offshore (coastal) given the right wind (blowing dogs off chains) and sea they are capable of winning. 

I doubt the accuracy of your observation as the Seascape 24 is only in its second season and much smaller than both the Mumm and F28. The SSC24 weighs about 43% of the Mumm and has only about 30% less sail area so it should be very competitive in light winds upwind and far better down wind than the Mumm. It will plane around 10KTS. Note that the Mumm carries sym spi vs asym of the 24.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, jetfuel said:

Probably thinking of the  of the 27 

24 was launched last year 

faster in the light stuff for sure than the 27 

havd sailed both

Raced against a 24 several times last year. Not impressed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, svein99 said:

I doubt the accuracy of your observation as the Seascape 24 is only in its second season and much smaller than both the Mumm and F28. The SSC24 weighs about 43% of the Mumm and has only about 30% less sail area so it should be very competitive in light winds upwind and far better down wind than the Mumm. It will plane around 10KTS. Note that the Mumm carries sym spi vs asym of the 24.

I was mixing up the 27 and 24 apologies. That said, I raced against a 24 in a variety of breezes several times last season and it wasn't anything special (no Mumm or Fare associated in the fleet though).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/8/2017 at 4:18 PM, Hitchhiker said:

http://www.sylvanayachts.com/

Yellow tab for the Annapolis boat.

Can't find the link for the Bay boat, but go through the http://sfbaysss.org/ and you might dig it up.  Possible it's sold.

If I had the dosh and didn't have to pay for the kids edification............

The SF Bay boat is advertised here in the classifieds: https://sailinganarchy.com/classifieds/show-ad/?id=3354

$95000 is a bit steep even with all the upgrades though....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phrf-wise, the left coast dart does pretty well around here. Only a few made, so finding one could be tough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No inboard engine, no provision for head,  less interior volume than J/80 and still pretty deep draft with no real ability to operate in a shoal mode.  The Andrews 28 is 3 times the boat.

Sounds to me like he's looking for one of the Columbia 30s,  except for the budget and draft.   It's a tough order to fill. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

No inboard engine, no provision for head,  less interior volume than J/80 and still pretty deep draft with no real ability to operate in a shoal mode.  The Andrews 28 is 3 times the boat.

Sounds to me like he's looking for one of the Columbia 30s,  except for the budget and draft.   It's a tough order to fill. 

I was gonna suggest a C30/32. but yeah, 7' draft. Great boats, though, so I hear ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2nd the Lumbo - Used Lumbos are realistically priced now and some can be found for a damn well bargain.

For the draft issue, you could always crank the keel up some when mooring.

Just picked up a 32' version for Point to Point Racing/Offshore/Island Fun stuff. Compared to what I normally sail, it's a cruiser but it does have some legs downwind and surprisingly nimble upwind. My wife and I can double hand it with no issues. A simple, fun, and well built boat for it's purpose. It also rips pretty well with a Code Zero or AP. Nothing better then getting it planing downwind with the wife and 2 dogs in the cockpit. The boat is loaded with top brand gear - Southern Spars, Yanmar, Lewmar, B&G, -Top Shelf stuff. Sure you could get a faster boat, but it's PHRF for Christ's sake - Who cares. Race another class One Design to get your fix. With low sheet loads, spartan yet comfy accommodations below (standing headroom),  ginormous cockpit, and saildrive, it's a nice package. Made in USA too.

T_Mans_phone_10_11_11_398.jpg.e19130f8138f089cf8d1e383c44a6fde.jpg

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is an Andrews 28 for sale on the Sailing Anarchy web site.  I believe that boat has been for sale for a while, I've seen it on other sites, so maybe they are negotiable.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You would have to make some mods to the boat that aren't that difficult, but the HOBIE 33 is one heck of a boat.  33 feet.  Draws 5.5 feet.  Goes like mad on a reach and off the wind (that's two out of three) and believe or not,  fairly rated. And you won't have 75K invested.  Epoxy and foam up and down.  Still one hell of a boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2017 at 1:06 PM, DIYC said:

That's what I suspected, what I want just doesn't exist with the exception of possibly the J88 which is too pricey and probably requires a pretty good breeze (15+) to plane.  If I go with a FE28 what have I gained over a Melges 24 other than I need more crew?  Thanks for your responses.

well for one thing, the FE28 is a lot faster than a Melges 24. (it'd be an A boat in PHRF-NE vs the 24 is a C boat). It also has proper lifelines which PHRF committees like. It's going to be a lot more comfortable than an M24 and really it's only 1 more person, maybe 2 on the heavy days, and will cost bout the same as a new-ish m24. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the thing about a boat that flies downwind is that you have to carry the downwind flier rating even when the breeze is down and you can't. (fly downwind, that is)

for PH purposes a boat with good all around performance is preferred by most because it's less frustrating less of the time, more enjoyable more of the time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/2/2018 at 10:44 AM, Irrational 14 said:

2nd the Lumbo - Used Lumbos are realistically priced now and some can be found for a damn well bargain.

For the draft issue, you could always crank the keel up some when mooring.

Just picked up a 32' version for Point to Point Racing/Offshore/Island Fun stuff. Compared to what I normally sail, it's a cruiser but it does have some legs downwind and surprisingly nimble upwind. My wife and I can double hand it with no issues. A simple, fun, and well built boat for it's purpose. It also rips pretty well with a Code Zero or AP. Nothing better then getting it planing downwind with the wife and 2 dogs in the cockpit. The boat is loaded with top brand gear - Southern Spars, Yanmar, Lewmar, B&G, -Top Shelf stuff. Sure you could get a faster boat, but it's PHRF for Christ's sake - Who cares. Race another class One Design to get your fix. With low sheet loads, spartan yet comfy accommodations below (standing headroom),  ginormous cockpit, and saildrive, it's a nice package. Made in USA too.

T_Mans_phone_10_11_11_398.jpg.e19130f8138f089cf8d1e383c44a6fde.jpg

 

and a great looking boat !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now