Alan H

Bob Perry, this thing is cute as all get out.

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Re Archived: Target Market.

Something that has not been seen in the Market for Small Boats.

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I am loving where this thread is going.

For farting around on SF Bay, I've learned that a Cal 20 is fine when you're 28 and impervious to water and cold.  Update that and you get something like a HotFoot 20 -> Ultimate 20. Right now, I could DO that style of boating, but it wouldn't be fun. So something in the 25-28 foot range with around 3-4K lbs displacement with a SA/Disp level  at about 21-23 is pretty darned nice.  The boat that hits that squarely on the nose is the Olson 25. Go a scooch bigger all around and you get the S2 7.9 or as a VERY sweet update, Will Porters mighty fine-looking design.  I want a little weight in the boat, now. A ULDB is fine, I know that myself, I want to *push* a ULDB and I'm kind of not that guy.  Sportboats 22-26 feet  look like serious fun but I don't want to spend 2-3 nights on one.

Going bigger just means spending more money. I have to admit that I can see the lure of going up to 30 feet and 8,000 lbs.  There's a Tartan3000 on my dock and I sure can understand something like that.   However, bigger than that, to me, just means dumping wads of money into something that doesn't really deliver what I enjoy. I don't really want to sail with 8 people. I like sailing by myself, or having one or two friends along.  Three-up is about as much as I care to put on the boat, more than that is just an organizational hassle.

I want to be able to at least sort of stand up to put on foulies. I want a comfy place to sleep. I want a little stove to heat up my chili at night and coffee in the morning. I want enough heft  under me that I'm not getting thrown around all the time on a summer day on SF Bay.  An inboard diesel is nice but I'm really liking how the outboard works on the S-2 7.9's wide transom.  It's totally not a PITA to use it, and I an take it off and take it to the engine wizards rather than paying them to come to me.

For me, unless I'm heading off into the Big Blue for six months-plus a bigger boat doesn't make sense.

At the opposite end, I'm getting pretty seriously interested in a cruising/daysailing dinghy. I doubt I will ever race in a dinghy class so something like  John Welsfords Saturday Night Special, or  a Wayfarer,  maybe a Boston Whaler Harpoon 5.7, a Precision 15, even an old Daysailer II  has strong appeal.  To me, THAT is "simple".  I backpack every summer, so having a little dinghy that I can launch, sail all day, stick on a sandbank in the delta somewhere, put up a boom tent and kick back is very appealing.

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Alan:

Check out the guitar stowage under the companionway. A must have for me. I prefer guitar smells to diesel smells.

Maybe twin rudders would be the ticket. Then I could put the outboard on centerline.

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On 3/7/2018 at 6:26 AM, willp14335 said:

Well, It's been shared several different places here, but I can upload the drawings again. ^_^

I have a deck plan as well, but that bumps this over the file size... 

 

25 Footer General Arrangement.pdf

25 Footer Hull Lines.pdf

25 Footer Sail Plan.pdf

Will, how long is the quarter berth in your boat?

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9 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Alan:

Check out the guitar stowage under the companionway. A must have for me. I prefer guitar smells to diesel smells.

Maybe twin rudders would be the ticket. Then I could put the outboard on centerline.

Nice.  Everybody has particulars, which is what keeps things interesting.  You know what I noticed that I really liked, that I think is a brilliant touch on a small boat like this, is the little table on the cantilevered arm, off the mast compression post. That's a great idea.
EDIT: on closer inspection, it's got it's own little rotating post.  What I like about it  is the fact that it moves around.  Don't need it, push it out of the way.

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As a complete aside... my  S-2 7.9 has an "enclosed"  head.  Well, it's enclosed if you're  a midget.  It's really there because the designers couldn't think of anything else to do with the space limitations caused by having the 600 lb daggerboard case.  TRUTH.  In all my 30+ years of sailing on SF Bay, I  have pooped in a boats head, maybe twice.  I've peed off the side more times than I can count and when it's bouncy, I pee in a bucket.  But a head?  

I crewed on a Santa Cruz 27 where the regular crew was me, one other guy and four women.  One of the girls used the potty, maybe every other or every third race.

My wife NEVER sails with me for more than about 5-6 hours at a time.

Conclusion.  The boat I use for my local waters doesn't need a head. A bucket is fine.  Designing in a head, even a place where the porta potti tucks under the berth, or something, is a complete waste of space. I honestly wonder how many other guys are in my exact situation.

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Alan:

Yes, the key to that table is that the leg swivels and the top swivels independent of the leg. This gives you a lot of options when you have a small space.

Steve on PANOPE did a very similar table based on this idea.

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Your wife and my wife have something in common.

I once took my tape measure into the head on a Boeing jet. I measured everything. I figured Boeing probably spent $200,000 coming up with those head dims. I might as well take advantage of it. I'd probably be arrested today.

Without any question, you need 22" in front of the head in order to sit down and close the door. It's a knee thing. Over the years I have collected a huge file of those ergonomic "must haves". I'd post the list but it's all in my head.

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6 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Your wife and my wife have something in common.

I once took my tape measure into the head on a Boeing jet. I measured everything. I figured Boeing probably spent $200,000 coming up with those head dims. I might as well take advantage of it. I'd probably be arrested today.

Without any question, you need 22" in front of the head in order to sit down and close the door. It's a knee thing. Over the years I have collected a huge file of those ergonomic "must haves". I'd post the list but it's all in my head.

THIS!!   Yes.  You're probably right, I bet they measured half of their employees  to get dimensions, then mocked up a dozen bathrooms and had people try to use them.

But of course Perry Design Office can do that...mock up ten  heads for every client and let them drop by the office to use them.

22 inches is a freaking lot of space on a small boat.  The thing about the airplane head is that you can stand up in it, to turn around and maneuver yourself into the position to do your business.  Can you imagine trying to use that Boeing bathroom if you had to enter it crouched over?

The head in the S2 7.9 is an ergonomic nightmare. I mean, it's so bad, that it's completely useless.  The ONLY function it serves on this boat is that if I ever get inspected by the Coasties, I can point to it, point to the hoses and the fitting on deck and say..."Yes, I have a pump-out head with a built-in holding tank."   I would trade that space for a REAL chart table, in a heartbeat.

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But, if I was not after the smallest package, I might go for this. I have been playing around with this variation on my 43' carbon cutters, same hull with raise freeboard for a flush deck, for a few weeks. It is everything I would want today. So, if you don't see something it's because I did not want it.

25825729707_e64bc72fe9_b.jpgBuppy black by robert perry, on Flickr

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1 hour ago, Alan H said:

Will, how long is the quarter berth in your boat?

Thanks for the kind words with regards to my drawings! 

As for the quarter berth, it depends where you measure from. It's a little short at 5.5 ft, but the settee is along the same level, so really there's plenty of length for someone tall to stretch out with a pillow. The v berth is a little short as well. I have Westlawn elements plus most of my college course behind me now, and I'd make a few changes if I drew the boat again, one of which would be to lengthen the v berth a little. I'd probably also add 2" of freeboard as it's a little tight on sitting headroom beneath the side decks down below (there's definitely not standing headroom). The freeboard was something Bob suggested at the time I drew the hull, but we ended up leaving it as it was because low freeboard looks nice. 

If you like my boat, I'd suggest you check out the Winner 8. It's a neat little dutch boat and has very similar specs to my 25 footer. 

http://www.winneryachts.com/winner/winner-8/ 

Winner-8-4.jpg

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7 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Somehow, I think a blend of the two with that more traditional plan and a shoal underbody would make a very nice Chesapeake, West Florida, Bahamas gunkholer for your post graduation portfolio. 

Its great to see you develop your own style and eye. 

What he won't tell you, but I will (if I've got the boat right), is that he got an "A1" grade on that project, which apparently is pretty much a perfect score and a near mythical grade in his program. I wish he could share the lines with you, it's a cool little boat and he did some innovative stuff to meet the design brief and still have a decent sailing boat.

I think that draws not much more than a meter, as part of the design brief.

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2 hours ago, willp14335 said:

Thanks for the kind words with regards to my drawings! 

As for the quarter berth, it depends where you measure from. It's a little short at 5.5 ft, but the settee is along the same level, so really there's plenty of length for someone tall to stretch out with a pillow. The v berth is a little short as well. I have Westlawn elements plus most of my college course behind me now, and I'd make a few changes if I drew the boat again, one of which would be to lengthen the v berth a little. I'd probably also add 2" of freeboard as it's a little tight on sitting headroom beneath the side decks down below (there's definitely not standing headroom). The freeboard was something Bob suggested at the time I drew the hull, but we ended up leaving it as it was because low freeboard looks nice. 

If you like my boat, I'd suggest you check out the Winner 8. It's a neat little dutch boat and has very similar specs to my 25 footer. 

http://www.winneryachts.com/winner/winner-8/ 

Winner-8-4.jpg

I just spent ten minutes looking at that, and nope. I like what you drew a lot better.  Twin rudders? Why?  The open transom is trendy. It's nice for getting  on board  after going swimming, which I never do on SF Bay. EVER. Also, tools roll out of the cockpit when you have an open transom.  *meh*... they're fine,  and I suppose they make getting to the outboard pretty easy, but I don't really care. I"d rather have really big cockpit drains.  I do like the Winner 8 cockpit layout, though.  Traveller, mainsheet, winches, tiller all easily accessible to the driver.  two thumbs up for that.  I like the hull shape I see in the video of the boat on the trailer, too.

I just saw the little bin under the bridgedeck for all the lines. NICE. 

The V berth... On a 25-26 foot boat...  My question is... Why? It's sail storage. My vberth on my current boat, and all my boats is crammed with sails, canvas, spinnaker poles and so on. Nobody ever sleeps up there.  Now that's just me, maybe other folks sleep in the V berths of their 26 footers.   Not only that, but in the Dutch boat, the casing for the sprit extends into the v berth making it just that much tighter.  Nah....   don't need  cushions and fancy woodwork and nice lighting up there. I'll just fill it with sails.

The two inches more headroom under the side decks...I like that.  Who expects to stand up in a 26 footer, that's not an eyesore?  When I wrote "stand up" I meant for 30 seconds to pull the foulies up over my butt...all hunched over. But if I can sit up with good posture on the settees...two thumbs up for that, too.

Honestly, the ONLY thing I would wish to change about your boat is to cut the displacement down to a scooch under 5,000 pounds.  If there was no liner, just bare glass on the interior,  would that happen?

 

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4 hours ago, Alan H said:

I am loving where this thread is going.

For farting around on SF Bay, I've learned that a Cal 20 is fine when you're 28 and impervious to water and cold.  Update that and you get something like a HotFoot 20 -> Ultimate 20. Right now, I could DO that style of boating, but it wouldn't be fun. So something in the 25-28 foot range with around 3-4K lbs displacement with a SA/Disp level  at about 21-23 is pretty darned nice.  The boat that hits that squarely on the nose is the Olson 25. Go a scooch bigger all around and you get the S2 7.9 or as a VERY sweet update, Will Porters mighty fine-looking design.  I want a little weight in the boat, now. A ULDB is fine, I know that myself, I want to *push* a ULDB and I'm kind of not that guy.  Sportboats 22-26 feet  look like serious fun but I don't want to spend 2-3 nights on one.

Going bigger just means spending more money. I have to admit that I can see the lure of going up to 30 feet and 8,000 lbs.  There's a Tartan3000 on my dock and I sure can understand something like that.   However, bigger than that, to me, just means dumping wads of money into something that doesn't really deliver what I enjoy. I don't really want to sail with 8 people. I like sailing by myself, or having one or two friends along.  Three-up is about as much as I care to put on the boat, more than that is just an organizational hassle.

I want to be able to at least sort of stand up to put on foulies. I want a comfy place to sleep. I want a little stove to heat up my chili at night and coffee in the morning. I want enough heft  under me that I'm not getting thrown around all the time on a summer day on SF Bay.  An inboard diesel is nice but I'm really liking how the outboard works on the S-2 7.9's wide transom.  It's totally not a PITA to use it, and I an take it off and take it to the engine wizards rather than paying them to come to me.

For me, unless I'm heading off into the Big Blue for six months-plus a bigger boat doesn't make sense.

At the opposite end, I'm getting pretty seriously interested in a cruising/daysailing dinghy. I doubt I will ever race in a dinghy class so something like  John Welsfords Saturday Night Special, or  a Wayfarer,  maybe a Boston Whaler Harpoon 5.7, a Precision 15, even an old Daysailer II  has strong appeal.  To me, THAT is "simple".  I backpack every summer, so having a little dinghy that I can launch, sail all day, stick on a sandbank in the delta somewhere, put up a boom tent and kick back is very appealing.

Your thoughts/preferences are almost exactly like mine! 

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Alan H, yes, the displacement could probably be a little lighter depending on a lot of factors. This is not a full design however (all the drawings were done as I learned ACAD and drafting from Bob over the course of 16 days), so without a weight study and some structural scantlings it would be basically impossible to know what the boat would actually weigh IRL. 

As for headroom, I wouldn't expect to stand up in most boats under 32' LOA, however those renderings of a 28 footer I put up earlier have standing headroom of 6.5 ft, as this was a requirement of the design brief. Admittedly it is a little chunky...  

The winner 8 also had decent headroom when I saw it at the boat show. First hand I became fond of the boat for its clever design details. I also like the fancy interior. 

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Shame there aren't any photos.

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True, but there are photos (not current) of and sailplans for the boat at the beginning of this thread...

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My daughter just finished Flight School and will be in Pensacola for another week.  I could probably get her to go take a look and take some current pics if your really interested.  She sailed/raced with my since she was 12.  Not an expert surveyor, but would be able to tell if it looked well cared for...

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1 hour ago, Alan H said:

Oh, man.....

Alan, meant to quote you in my earlier reply about my daughter being in Pensacola for another week...

Crash

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I would love that boat.  But I don' t have twenty bills to spend on a boat,  plus five more for the transport out here, when I've already got the S2 and the Piper.  I could offload the S2, but not the Piper..I'd love that little boat. But, no.

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On 3/9/2018 at 7:03 AM, Bob Perry said:

But, if I was not after the smallest package, I might go for this. I have been playing around with this variation on my 43' carbon cutters, same hull with raise freeboard for a flush deck, for a few weeks. It is everything I would want today. So, if you don't see something it's because I did not want it.

25825729707_e64bc72fe9_b.jpgBuppy black by robert perry, on Flickr

Faaaarck Rob, you just cost me at least $750 k of my retirement savings.

And here I was looking for a down at heel Salar 40 to renovate.

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We are getting ready to do PH version of the carbon cutter. Aft cockpit version. I was playing around drawing one day and I wanted to see if the Baba 40 pilot house version interior would fit into the carbon cutter hull. It fits very well. I posted the drawing on the fan club FB page and a fellow saw it and liked it and now wants Betts to build it.

 

BB ph 43.jpg

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Fantastic!

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Having lusted over Regina PHs, I’m liking a lot about this layout. Galley close enough to pass drinks to cockpit or saloon. Good accommodation. Heaps of storage. Is that a chart table behind an indoor helm?

A question from the ignorant... I know the 4xcutters are full keel with chastity strut etc and the drawing above clearly shows the rudder position and the trad’ look, but curious if the rudder can be moved under her and free up the transom without drama, or whether it kicks off a major re-design spiral?

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HFC:

Yes, and that rudder change is under consideration now. This version would not be a tiller boat.

Yes,  that is a chart table aft of the steering station.

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@Bob Perry: “Please sir, may we have some more?”

(Drawings, that is)

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Since you asked. You may have seen this one before.

I took the carbon cutter style and did a big version of it. This represents just about everything I know about what makes a good cruising boat. I drew it for myself just for fun.

 

 

Buppy 61 deck A.jpg

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You're good at these pilot house boats Bob, but check out how well proportioned this boat is in a smaller size. Hard to beat this perfection:

image.png.d23036cbef7fab55995b66927ce9ea92.png

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2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Since you asked. You may have seen this one before.

I took the carbon cutter style and did a big version of it. This represents just about everything I know about what makes a good cruising boat. I drew it for myself just for fun.

 

 

Buppy 61 deck A.jpg

Now we are talking. Maybe your best work.....ever!

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Ahem!  Could do with a T shaped cockpit, as at the moment, it's nigh impossible to see the jib luff.  That's assuming you'd like to hand steer occasionally.  Better put on the flame proof suit ...

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On 10/3/2017 at 3:10 PM, Alan H said:

 she's about 20x better looking that anything currently out there around 20 feet that I know of.

 

This 20 footer is pretty cute.  And fast. (And fairly dangerous downwind, I’m sure :-) )

https://sailinganarchy.com/2019/10/09/mini-650-mini-transat-leg-1-day-4-leader-change-in-the-fast-ride-to-the-canaries/

 

68E0DCEE-A4A5-43D9-85B9-694F9586DCA5.jpeg

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Jud- that’s not cute. That’s a skiff you can sleep on, sort of.

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37 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Pretty hard to find fault with that boat.  

Only thing wrong with this boat is that no one has built it, YET...

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17 minutes ago, HFC Hunter said:

Jud- that’s not cute. That’s a skiff you can sleep on, sort of.

Imagine the deafening noise down below as they rocket downwind (as they are currently) at 12+ kts.  No sleeping! :-)

(Those things are cute in a slip (so small), but probably not so much when you’re praying to all the gods to keep the thing from going outta control under sail in too much wind...)

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4 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Since you asked. You may have seen this one before.

I took the carbon cutter style and did a big version of it. This represents just about everything I know about what makes a good cruising boat. I drew it for myself just for fun.

 

 

Buppy 61 deck A.jpg

Love-child of Catari and one of the Carbon Cutters? ;)

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3 minutes ago, HFC Hunter said:

Love-child of Catari and one of the Carbon Cutters? ;)

Bob, Would you be so kind as to post the interior layout? Thanks!

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28 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Imagine the deafening noise down below as they rocket downwind (as they are currently) at 12+ kts.  No sleeping! :-)

(Those things are cute in a slip (so small), but probably not so much when you’re praying to all the gods to keep the thing from going outta control under sail in too much wind...)

They don't go out of control in too much breeze any more than any other boat,     usually, they just squirt out like a melon seed on speed.

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2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Here you go Kim.

Began work on a new 80'er today.

 

Buppy v berth.jpg

Wow!

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2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Here you go Kim.

Began work on a new 80'er today.

 

Buppy v berth.jpg

You certainly got a lot done for the first day:D

I know, always read the fine print.

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5 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Imagine the deafening noise down below as they rocket downwind (as they are currently) at 12+ kts.  No sleeping! :-)

(Those things are cute in a slip (so small), but probably not so much when you’re praying to all the gods to keep the thing from going outta control under sail in too much wind...)

When are you gonna pull that trigger?  You know you want one. We are here to help you ... spend money in reckless, indefensible ways.

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On 10/9/2019 at 3:13 PM, Bob Perry said:

HFC:

Yes, and that rudder change is under consideration now. This version would not be a tiller boat.

Yes,  that is a chart table aft of the steering station.

61’ would be dreamworthy, but a damn big boat to wake up with. 

Her little 43’ sister would be lovely. Are you able to share any more drawings or design insights on her? Same rig? And carbon hull again, or can the moulds be used for glass?

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HFC:

That is the only drawing I have. It was just a concept sketch to see how the Baba 40 PH layout would fit on the carbon cutter hull.  I don't see any reason not to go all carbon again.  It adds about $50,000 but it makes the boat unique and the performance is really good. Maybe go with a spade rudder and a wheel on this one. If this client pulls the trigger soon I'll be knee deep in new designs.

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1 hour ago, Bob Perry said:

HFC:

That is the only drawing I have. It was just a concept sketch to see how the Baba 40 PH layout would fit on the carbon cutter hull.  I don't see any reason not to go all carbon again.  It adds about $50,000 but it makes the boat unique and the performance is really good. Maybe go with a spade rudder and a wheel on this one. If this client pulls the trigger soon I'll be knee deep in new designs.

Are you ever going to retire?

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Santana:

I don't plan on it. I am only 73. My wife retired three years ago and now she does what she wants to do. I'm already doing what I want to do so why would I stop? I'm happiest when I;m working on a new design so right now I am very happy. I'm just getting good at this.

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4 hours ago, Santana20AE said:

Are you ever going to retire?

How does one retire from messing about in boats?

That's what retirement IS.

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9 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

HFC:

That is the only drawing I have. It was just a concept sketch to see how the Baba 40 PH layout would fit on the carbon cutter hull.  I don't see any reason not to go all carbon again.  It adds about $50,000 but it makes the boat unique and the performance is really good. Maybe go with a spade rudder and a wheel on this one. If this client pulls the trigger soon I'll be knee deep in new designs.

Thanks Bob, hope he shoots as I’d love to see this one come alive. It speaks to me like the new Land Rover in taking trad’ into modern and be ever more capable.

When I’m ready/allowed, I’ll ping you a cheque for one - offset companionway and all. There’s acreage of engineering space! (And I’d love one of those bensoned booms). I’m nervous of treading on hallowed baba 40 ground so hope to tiptoe here... Much as I love a big chart table...with screens taking over these days I’d be tempted to free up that prime location for more seating and hunt for a quieter spot for paper nav. Maybe at the expense of dropping it down and and slipping a thinner qtr berth aft a little? Esp’ if ithe nav could nestle under the new seat a bit. (But keep that hanging locker in the great spot for foulies coming off watch). I would love to store my guitar in the new seat in a custom divan-like drawer if there’s length.

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7 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

Santana:

I don't plan on it. I am only 73. My wife retired three years ago and now she does what she wants to do. I'm already doing what I want to do so why would I stop? I'm happiest when I;m working on a new design so right now I am very happy. I'm just getting good at this.

THATS THE SPIRIT!

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HFC:

As much as the boat is only a .dwg file at this stage you can any mods to the layout you like. I think a laptop on the dinette table would work for navigation. But we'd need to find a spot for the other things you find at nav stations. I'm sure it can bee done.

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6 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

HFC:

As much as the boat is only a .dwg file at this stage you can any mods to the layout you like. I think a laptop on the dinette table would work for navigation. But we'd need to find a spot for the other things you find at nav stations. I'm sure it can bee done.

That’s what we did with the fitout on our Adams, scrapped the nav table and put in a dinette and a panel on the hull side with all the electronics in it.

works well, and there is no table taking up space in the saloon, so the interior seems a lot bigger.

we have also navigated our way round Puget Sound, the San Yuans, the Gulf Islands and recently the Queensland coast using Navionics on IPads, no issues, we even have a cheap Lenovo tablet now that is just dedicated to navigation software.

there is an older Garmin plotter onboard as well, we only use it as an anchor watch these days...

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I can’t even spell San Juans, and the boat is called San Miguel...

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The chart table is handy for other things besides navigation,  It's a useful desk, work bench for clean and fiddly jobs, somewhere for the watch keeper to sit,  impromptu bar, etc etc.  I wouldn't be without mine.

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Dunno... I've had a year now with some other usable work surfaces on board (finally) and the chart table gets used much less.  (It's actually available for CHARTS!) I still wouldn't get rid of it, but I can now understand the concept.  

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2 hours ago, Whinging Pom said:

The chart table is handy for other things besides navigation,  It's a useful desk, work bench for clean and fiddly jobs, somewhere for the watch keeper to sit,  impromptu bar, etc etc.  I wouldn't be without mine.

Where else do you store a wobbly brass compass, 2 x cracked (somewhat) parallel rules, 30x dead biros, no pencils, hundreds of spare ss fixings, 17 year old sunscreens which all reek of coconut and warn against direct contact with skin, anti-mossie spray and cream and roll on - all now banned by the WHO, 5x pairs of scratched sunglasses and two with missing lenses, 3x pairs of unclaimed spectacles, 3x pairs of opaque folding glasses from the two dollar shop, 4x horrifically uncomfortable plastic sunvisors, charts of Ushuaia and the approaches to La Rochelle and the RYA faux training chart,  3x waterproof key holders with lanyards, 4x floating key holders, spare keys for every padlock that ever came aboard in the last three decades, 4x dead penlights, 2x dead big torches, 3x brilliant head torches - albeit 2 with dead elastics, 21x assorted incandescent bulbs (blown and otherwise), 4x unused mounting brackets and 15x baggies of unused mounting screws, 23x leaking batteries of assorted size, a signalling mirror last used by a kid for fun in 1993, a selection of cyalume sticks of uncertain confidence, an amusing brass plaque, 2x packs of expired mini flares, a kilogram of coins for the marina showers but which are no longer in circulation and the showers now on a swipe card, some useful non-ss/galv chain links, 4x clutch service kits, a bunch of random length chocolate-block wire junctions, packets of fuses (blown and otherwise), many rolls of melting electrical tape, mantles for gas lanterns long removed from the boat, a couple of matching cruising guides, a set of fids, 3x blunt boat knives that can only cut searching fingers, a handful of ss hose clamps interspersed with mild steel ones, 2x half fishing sets and a 100m spool of unspooled line, 3x boxes of damp matches, 5x books of damp matches, 4x empty ciggie lighters with damp flints, some used zip ties, three rotting “Hood” labelled sail ties, spare lens for the tricolour (unused since 1986), some damaged but well greased pawls, a pharmacy of expired and unboxed médicaments, and three inflatable repair kits of a material considerably more parched than any inflatable.

And in the lockers beneath....a trove too rich and complex to begin to describe for fear of causing confusion between Tutankhamen’ tomb and a Bhopal recreation.

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On 10/9/2019 at 6:06 PM, Diarmuid said:

When are you gonna pull that trigger?  You know you want one. We are here to help you ... spend money in reckless, indefensible ways.

It’s actually quite a moral decision - I.e., in the strict philosophical sense of good/bad, right/wrong.  Do I spend money I do not have on a boat I do not need, cannot live/cruise aboard for any significant amount of time because it’s so small, but which sails fast, and would be great fun presumably on a fairly regular basis (and could pretty easily be trailered far, to do, say, things like the SHTP and Bermuda Races; or do I spend money I do not have continuing further upgrades on a boat I also do not need but that I can live and cruise aboard (longer term maybe one day?), that isn’t much fun to sail (compared to a small fast one).  Or should I simply make the “you only live once” moral choice, and do both, spending even more money I don’t have (credit is so handy!!! :-) )  I know which option I like, but I don’t if it’s the right moral choice...

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Jud, you obviously need two boats. :)

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Just straggled in here. That’s a cute little boat with the topsail. Does the sail really add anything beyond looks? 

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1 hour ago, Ixneigh said:

Just straggled in here. That’s a cute little boat with the topsail. Does the sail really add anything beyond looks? 

Of course! It will achieve the primary goal of heeling more, with the ensuing water over the rail that looks so fast and fun!

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