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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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Snore

Bump Stocka

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Did I miss the conversation about bump stocks?  This $200 stock uses the normal recoil of a rifle to provide the weapon with a fire rate just under that of an automatic. Of course the manufacturer also sells 50 round drums so you can shoot more.  So while full automatic weapons are (in theory) heavily regulated, any psychopath can buy these  

Linky http://www.slidefire.com/

Attemprs to control the sale of bump stocks were blocked- presumably by the NRA.   What makes this interesting is that many congressman could be bought by the NRA to vote against what should have been a no-brainer  

 

 

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I don't know anything about them.

Lark was asking if they can be used on my .22 assault rifle. My guess is that it doesn't have enough recoil but I don't know. Does anyone?

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What happened to "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"

From the tapes I heard it sounded like he was using the AK47 instead of these bump stocks.

Quote

 

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2 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I don't know anything about them.

Lark was asking if they can be used on my .22 assault rifle. My guess is that it doesn't have enough recoil but I don't know. Does anyone?

Won't work on a .22. The only people I have seen with them came from the east side of the Delaware river and had frighteningly little control of the rifle with the bump stock. We pack up the truck and leave when I see one of those come out.

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18 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

What happened to "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"

From the tapes I heard it sounded like he was using the AK47 instead of these bump stocks.

 

KInd of correct. First the bump stock can be added to a civilian AK to increase the rate of fire- scroll down on link I provided. 

 

Second the guy guy in Vegas had these on his rifles

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11 minutes ago, LenP said:

Won't work on a .22. The only people I have seen with them came from the east side of the Delaware river and had frighteningly little control of the rifle with the bump stock. We pack up the truck and leave when I see one of those come out.

I've never seen one, only seen them mentioned. From the description of how it works, I guessed you'd need more recoil than my assault rifle can provide.

Not surprised that they look dangerous. I usually try to hold a gun still when shooting it.

They strike me as an unfortunate unintended consequence of the 1986 closure of the machine gun registry.

People wanted to shoot ridiculous amounts of ammo anyway, so they use these. They'd go away if the registry were reopened.

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4 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I've never seen one, only seen them mentioned. From the description of how it works, I guessed you'd need more recoil than my assault rifle can provide.

Not surprised that they look dangerous. I usually try to hold a gun still when shooting it.

They strike me as an unfortunate unintended consequence of the 1986 closure of the machine gun registry.

People wanted to shoot ridiculous amounts of ammo anyway, so they use these. They'd go away if the registry were reopened.

I agree, but I have to admit that some of those folks are doing their best to convince me we need more gun control, just as they have convinced me we still have a real problem with racism. Ironic that they come from the enlightened states. 

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12 minutes ago, Snore said:

KInd of correct. First the bump stock can be added to a civilian AK to increase the rate of fire- scroll down on link I provided. 

 

Second the guy guy in Vegas had these on his rifles

Can you cite a news report that say he had this on the AK? The only reports I have seen say 2 were fitted to the AR15 clones.

The reports did say he had full auto rifle, was this gun registered?

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24 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I've never seen one, only seen them mentioned. From the description of how it works, I guessed you'd need more recoil than my assault rifle can provide.

Not surprised that they look dangerous. I usually try to hold a gun still when shooting it.

They strike me as an unfortunate unintended consequence of the 1986 closure of the machine gun registry.

People wanted to shoot ridiculous amounts of ammo anyway, so they use these. They'd go away if the registry were reopened.

Atkins accelerator. A nice addition to your ruger. Add a 50 round magazine and you're good to go.

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 Brave, wise... gallant men... know it takes seconds to convert an assault rifle into a mass-murder killing machine....

....Among the weapons found in the room were four Daniel Defense DDM4 rifles, three FN-15s and other rifles made by Sig Sauer. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-03/vegas-shooter-filmed-himself-during-slaughter-suicide-photo-emerges

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2 minutes ago, Marinatrix447 said:

 Brave, wise... gallant men... know it takes seconds to convert an assault rifle into a mass-murder killing machine....

....Among the weapons found in the room were four Daniel Defense DDM4 rifles, three FN-15s and other rifles made by Sig Sauer. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-03/vegas-shooter-filmed-himself-during-slaughter-suicide-photo-emerges

Why are people more concerned about the poxy bump stocks and not the full auto rifle he had?

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17 minutes ago, ease the sheet said:

Atkins accelerator. A nice addition to your ruger. Add a 50 round magazine and you're good to go.

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=129

I should have known someone would have done something like this. They've done every other thing to the 10-22.

The Ruger is my wife's assault weapon. Mine's just an old .22 semi with a tube magazine. I guess if that could be fitted, I could empty it maybe a second faster. Not that I'd want to.

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5 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Why are people more concerned about the poxy bump stocks and not the full auto rifle he had?

In theory fully automatic weapons are highly regulated.  So if he acquired one, the question is how.  Anyone can buy a bump stock.

Regarding the question -were there bump stocks were on the AK 47s he used?-I don’t know.  I am not expert enough to tell by looking at the available photos.  People, like you, more aware of the AK47, identified it by sound.  I believe we can agree that the weapon was not a “stock civilian model”.  

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I don't know anything about them.

Lark was asking if they can be used on my .22 assault rifle. My guess is that it doesn't have enough recoil but I don't know. Does anyone?

I suggest you rush out and get a bump stock now that Americans are learning what they are.  I suspect they will be well regulated soon.

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2 minutes ago, Snore said:

In theory fully automatic weapons are highly regulated.  So if he acquired one, the question is how.  Anyone can buy a bump stock.

Regarding the question -were there bump stocks were on the AK 47s he used?-I don’t know.  I am not expert enough to tell by looking at the available photos.  People, like you, more aware of the AK47, identified it by sound.  I believe we can agree that the weapon was not a “stock civilian model”.  

I’m getting the sense that any assault weapon that can be easily modified to full auto or near auto will become well regulated.  Manufacturers may start making their WMD a bit more difficult to modify.

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41 minutes ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Why are people more concerned about the poxy bump stocks and not the full auto rifle he had?

 

Given the widespread knowledge that full-autos are already highly restricted - despite disingenuous claims to the contrary, with or without conflating machineguns with auto-reloaders - the bump-stocks may be gaining a higher OQ* than they had before. They do, after all, help rip through $ome ammo.

As a matter of disclosure, I see no use for them, and seriously question their purchasers' true worth as sportsmen OR potential value in any theoretical, peoples' militia (a la 2nd A.).  Besides that, how many are recovered from crime scenes at large? Obviously this recent phuckheadery, yes, but in general?  Probably the same as for supressors - almost never, due to their lack of value for the [already] illegal task at hand.

 

 

* Outrage Quotient

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22 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

I suggest you rush out and get a bump stock now that Americans are learning what they are.  I suspect they will be well regulated soon.

I don't want one but agree that it might be a good time to buy a bunch of them. Anyone who bought a bunch of machine guns just before the registry closed in 1986 saw their value soar.

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9 minutes ago, atoyot said:

 

Given the widespread knowledge that full-autos are already highly restricted - despite disingenuous claims to the contrary, with or without conflating machineguns with auto-reloaders - the bump-stocks maybe gaining a higher OQ*.  They do, after all, help rip through $ome ammo.

As a matter of disclosure, I see no use for them, and seriously question their purchasers' true worth as sportsmen OR potential value in any theoretical, peoples' militia (a la 2nd A.).  Besides that, how many are recovered from crime scenes at large? Obviously this recent phuckheadery, yes, but in general?  Probably the same as for supressors - almost never, due to their lack of value for the [already] illegal task at hand.

 

 

* Outrage Quotient

The issue with accessorizing your WMD is these particular modifications increase the lethality of an already lethal weapon.  High cap mags combined with bump stocks will be scrutinized by the masses as unnecessary for civil society.  They will become well regulated.

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13 minutes ago, Snore said:

In theory fully automatic weapons are highly regulated.  So if he acquired one, the question is how.  Anyone can buy a bump stock.

Regarding the question -were there bump stocks were on the AK 47s he used?-I don’t know.  I am not expert enough to tell by looking at the available photos.  People, like you, more aware of the AK47, identified it by sound.  I believe we can agree that the weapon was not a “stock civilian model”.  

All the news reports I have seen say he had 2 bump stocks they were fitted to the AR15 clones none fitted to the AK47, the news reports also said he had a full auto which I think was the AK47 from the sound of the initial gunfire, the 7.62x39 sounds different to .223 rem used in AR15s. Was the full auto rifle he had registered or was it illegal, if it was illegal how is making it any more illegal going to change anything.

What is a stock civilian model? the AR15 clones and AR15 he had looked like stock civilian models.

I think these bump stocks are shithouse I wouldn't have one for various reasons first being ammo is expensive here even if you reload.Trigger weight can be adjusted mine are set around 3.5lbs, these bump stocks would be hard on your trigger finger with a 3.5lb load every time it fires compared to one single 3.5lb load pull for full auto.

The definition for semi auto is pull the trigger  for every round that is fired ie 20 shots means pull the trigger 20 times, for full auto you only need to pull the trigger once and hold it down so technically these bump stocks don't make it full auto according to accepted definitions. I don't agree with changing accepted definitions for anything

 

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3 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I don't want one but agree that it might be a good time to buy a bunch of them. Anyone who bought a bunch of machine guns just before the registry closed in 1986 saw their value soar.

Git it while the gittins good.  Bump stocks may be the sacrificial lamb to the grabbers to keep them away from your precious.

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Ever wonder if the usual operators in the underground economy might be behind the struggle to restrict or eliminate firearms, either partially or in total?  See "New Jersey", where one needs to have his middle name, "The", to qualify for a carry permit.

 

30 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I don't want one but agree that it might be a good time to buy a bunch of them. Anyone who bought a bunch of machine guns just before the registry closed in 1986 saw their value soar.

 

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25 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

The issue with accessorizing your WMD is these particular modifications increase the lethality of an already lethal weapon.  High cap mags combined with bump stocks will be scrutinized by the masses as unnecessary for civil society.  They will become well regulated.

 

"MY" WMD? Citation welcomed, though, you'll just redirect and present another, shiny straw man. 

 

By the way. If people are going to keep interjecting the 18th Century phrase, "well-regulated", they might ought to ensure they're using the words along the context within which they were written (http://www.constitution.org/mil/embar2nd.htm). If you find that original meaning out-dated, even unnecessary, then be honest enough with history and with yourselves to just say, "We need to repeal the Amendment, as it no longer serves the American people as intended in 1787".  Pretending it supports today's "regulation" is a flat-out lie, unless you're talking about scope adjustments and such....   I think even the more rabid shootists will respect an honest discussion.  My opinion only.

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15 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Git it while the gittins good.  Bump stocks may be the sacrificial lamb to the grabbers to keep them away from your precious.

The gun grabbers will never be happy while people can have guns, your founding fathers knew how to deal with gun grabbers they told you to fuck off.

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24 minutes ago, atoyot said:

 

"MY" WMD? Citation welcomed, though, you'll just redirect and present another, shiny straw man. 

 

By the way. If people are going to keep interjecting the 18th Century phrase, "well-regulated", they might ought to ensure they're using the words along the context within which they were written (http://www.constitution.org/mil/embar2nd.htm). If you find that original meaning out-dated, even unnecessary, then be honest enough with history and with yourselves to just say, "We need to repeal the Amendment, as it no longer serves the American people as intended in 1787".  Pretending it supports today's "regulation" is a flat-out lie, unless you're talking about scope adjustments and such....   I think even the more rabid shootists will respect an honest discussion.  My opinion only.

Must be the 94

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5 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

All the news reports I have seen say he had 2 bump stocks they were fitted to the AR15 clones none fitted to the AK47, the news reports also said he had a full auto which I think was the AK47 from the sound of the initial gunfire, the 7.62x39 sounds different to .223 rem used in AR15s. Was the full auto rifle he had registered or was it illegal, if it was illegal how is making it any more illegal going to change anything.

What is a stock civilian model? the AR15 clones and AR15 he had looked like stock civilian models.

I think these bump stocks are shithouse I wouldn't have one for various reasons first being ammo is expensive here even if you reload.Trigger weight can be adjusted mine are set around 3.5lbs, these bump stocks would be hard on your trigger finger with a 3.5lb load every time it fires compared to one single 3.5lb load pull for full auto.

The definition for semi auto is pull the trigger  for every round that is fired ie 20 shots means pull the trigger 20 times, for full auto you only need to pull the trigger once and hold it down so technically these bump stocks don't make it full auto according to accepted definitions. I don't agree with changing accepted definitions for anything

 

Great discussion of bump stocks and a comparison of manual, bump stock and full auto rate here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/us/bump-stock-las-vegas-gun.html

While I will defer to your knowledge of weapons, the facts in this article are contrary to your analysis. Look at the rate of fire patterns on the bottom of the article. The frequency is erratic, not smooth like a full auto.   I am now 100% sure he used a bump stock.  

So why are these things out there?  I support the second amendment.  I believe in the right to bear arms and even in concealed weapons.  But I do not believe the intent of the second was to allow citizens to own weapons of war. 

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5 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

The gun grabbers will never be happy while people can have guns, your founding fathers knew how to deal with gun grabbers they told you to fuck off.

 But the NRA empowers gun grabber when they do stupid things— like helping kill a bill that would have regulated bump stocks.  And when Nevada passed a referendum for background checks in Nov 2016, the administration failed to institute it.  Smells a little stinky to me!!!

 

Basicly, the NRA is doing what many Dems are doing.  Taking a stupid radical position and then being unwilling to negotiate.

 

 

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What we need is something like a lethality index to gauge and compare weapons.  How effective is it to kill humans.  A factory stock semi auto assault rifle will probably will have a lower index than a similar weapon with a bump stock.  Likewise a 357 revolver will have a lower index than an AR15.

these indexes could be established by experts in firearms, law enforcement and trauma surgeons.  

Then, establish regulations based on the index ranging from free and unregulated to well regulated.

modifying your assault weapon with an accessory that increases the index might push it into a well regulated class.

example: a bushmaster ar15 starts life at a lethality index of 100.  Adding a high cap mag raises it to 120.  Add a bump stock or trigger crank, add another 50 points.

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41 minutes ago, Snore said:

Great discussion of bump stocks and a comparison of manual, bump stock and full auto rate here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/us/bump-stock-las-vegas-gun.html

While I will defer to your knowledge of weapons, the facts in this article are contrary to your analysis. Look at the rate of fire patterns on the bottom of the article. The frequency is erratic, not smooth like a full auto.   I am now 100% sure he used a bump stock.  

So why are these things out there?  I support the second amendment.  I believe in the right to bear arms and even in concealed weapons.  But I do not believe the intent of the second was to allow citizens to own weapons of war. 

There is an incredible amount of bullshit in the media when it comes to guns I wouldn't believe everything you read.

The media all ignore the full auto AK47 he started shooting with because they have a fixation on AR15s, the comparison in your link with semi auto from the Orlando Islamic terrorist is misleading because he was probably aiming at people instead of spray and pray. I am 100% certain the first gun he used was the AK from the sound , surely they could say if that AK was legally obtained since all legal full autos have been registered since 1986.

I think the bump stocks are a waste of money and it's interesting thanks to the media coverage on them people are reporting they are now sold out when they weren't selling many of them before the media made them into a big deal.

A homicidal and suicidal person is the worst case scenario for a mental health professional to deal with which is the real elephant in the room, have any of the media mentioned this or are they obsessed with Ar15s?

 

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42 minutes ago, Snore said:

 But the NRA empowers gun grabber when they do stupid things— like helping kill a bill that would have regulated bump stocks.  And when Nevada passed a referendum for background checks in Nov 2016, the administration failed to institute it.  Smells a little stinky to me!!!

 

Basicly, the NRA is doing what many Dems are doing.  Taking a stupid radical position and then being unwilling to negotiate.

 

 

Perhaps it might be best to stop blaming the NRA when nutjobs go on a rampage, a homicidal and suicidal person is the worst case scenario for mental health professionals, have any of the media ever mentioned this fact or is their focus on the tool?

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1 minute ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

A homicidal and suicidal person is the worst case scenario for a mental health professional to deal with which is the real elephant in the room, have any of the media mentioned this or are they obsessed with Ar15s?

 

there-in lies some of the problem.  1.  you gotta get the crazy person to the doctor, then if you get them to the doctor,  is the doctor going to be willing  to sign  a piece of paper that notifies someone in power (police, fbi, ect ) that this person is crazy...   Malpractice lawyers are particularly rabid...

I think even with out a bump stock,  it woudl have been a devastating event, but his rate of fire would have definitely been much slower with a semi with no bump stock at least in the long run, and his accuracy would have been much better(if he cared).    Not that it matters, but I wonder how many deaths/injuries were a result of the stampede, and not from a bullet

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2 minutes ago, Marcjsmith said:

there-in lies some of the problem.  1.  you gotta get the crazy person to the doctor, then if you get them to the doctor,  is the doctor going to be willing  to sign  a piece of paper that notifies someone in power (police, fbi, ect ) that this person is crazy...   Malpractice lawyers are particularly rabid...

I think even with out a bump stock,  it woudl have been a devastating event, but his rate of fire would have definitely been much slower with a semi with no bump stock at least in the long run, and his accuracy would have been much better(if he cared).    Not that it matters, but I wonder how many deaths/injuries were a result of the stampede, and not from a bullet

In Australia doctors, nurses and even social workers can decide if someone is mentally fit to own guns they have indemnity when reporting people who might be a danger to themselves or others.Please click on this link and read it- http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/services/firearms?a=131155

Since the trigger still has to be pulled once for every shot I would say people can fire a semi auto just as fast if not quicker than  the bump stock and accuracy might be better without bump stock.

 

 

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there would have to be some sort of law in place to protect the doctors from malpractice lawsuits.  And even then  I doubt you'd get buy in from the docs..

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47 minutes ago, Snore said:

 

So why are these things out there?  I support the second amendment.  I believe in the right to bear arms and even in concealed weapons.  But I do not believe the intent of the second was to allow citizens to own weapons of war. 

Actually, that was precisely the intent. 

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed...."   was not put there to allow us to hunt or provide for self defense.   It is a critical leg of the exceptional check-and-balance structure that the framers devised.   

During his extensive research on the famous Heller case, Scalia correctly interpreted their intentions:   The framers knew that the way militias were destroyed by tyrants in the past was not by passing a law against militias, but by taking away the people's weapons.
- Antonin Scalia 2008

The framers had many examples of government-gone-wild from which to draw their conclusions.   The 2nd is in place to guarantee that our government is "of the people."   They envisioned us as largely virtuous citizens who could handle this weighty duty.  It is humbling. 

Now, I would agree that a bump-fire stock is pretty much useless except for shooting at a huge mass of tightly packed people.  Further, I suspect that the Vegas psychopath would have passed through your points system and been awarded a certificate for whatever he wanted.  People like him are experts at deception.   But I would agree that we should do everything possible to keep arms out of the hands of psychopaths. 

They are not virtuous...

 

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uh, guys?  He had a pilots license.  I'm told that means he had already been screened for mental health?  Just sayin.

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1 minute ago, Marcjsmith said:

there would have to be some sort of law in place to protect the doctors from malpractice lawsuits.  And even then  I doubt you'd get buy in from the docs..

We have that law in place.

One of my friends specialises in mental health they report everyone who comes into their private hospital because of liability concerns for not reporting them if something happened.

 

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2 minutes ago, frenchie said:

uh, guys?  He had a pilots license.  I'm told that means he had already been screened for mental health?  Just sayin.

he was screened in 08 and was due in 13 to be renewed....   so FAA has bared him from legally flying since 13....

 

doesn't me he wasn't flying illegally.  he owned a couple planes i think

 

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45 minutes ago, Marcjsmith said:

he was screened in 08 and was due in 13 to be renewed....   so FAA has bared him from legally flying since 13....

 

doesn't me he wasn't flying illegally.  he owned a couple planes i think

 

Nope.  If he let his medical expire in 2013.  He could continue to fly under sport pilot restrictions or fly a glider.  

And the FAA 3rd class medical doesn’t check for mental stability, only does your eyes, BP and pee.  You do need to self report any meds or other conditions.  He could lie about that.

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10 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

I though we'd discovered the identity of Hilary.

FFS. You think everybody is somebody else. 

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10 hours ago, LenP said:

Won't work on a .22. The only people I have seen with them came from the east side of the Delaware river and had frighteningly little control of the rifle with the bump stock. We pack up the truck and leave when I see one of those come out.

Exactly.   That is one piece of equipment is truly worthless for any reasonable shooting sport enthusiast.  

That said...you can do the same thing without a “bump stock’.  So  making them illegal is not going to stop it but if that is what it takes to qualify as ‘doing something’ I wouldn’t fight it.

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15 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

Exactly.   That is one piece of equipment is truly worthless for any reasonable shooting sport enthusiast.  

That said...you can do the same thing without a “bump stock’.  So  making them illegal is not going to stop it but if that is what it takes to qualify as ‘doing something’ I wouldn’t fight it.

Just watched the vendor video promoting them.  Pretty much turns your grandma’s assault weapon into a fully automatic street sweeper.  Looks like a lot of fun.  

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5 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

The shootist had 12 rifles with bump stocks in the room with him.

Thanks Obama!

 

(Come on righties, I know you were thinking it!)

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Haven’t heard what the other 10 firearms were, just that they were mostly rifles.  But with those bump stocks, he’ll, he wouldn’t even need to reload, just grab the next off the stack.  How can these even be considered legal?  I think there needs to be some house cleaning in the ATF.

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11 hours ago, Snore said:

Did I miss the conversation about bump stocks?  This $200 stock uses the normal recoil of a rifle to provide the weapon with a fire rate just under that of an automatic. Of course the manufacturer also sells 50 round drums so you can shoot more.  So while full automatic weapons are (in theory) heavily regulated, any psychopath can buy these  

Linky http://www.slidefire.com/

Attemprs to control the sale of bump stocks were blocked- presumably by the NRA.   What makes this interesting is that many congressman could be bought by the NRA to vote against what should have been a no-brainer  

 

 

Yes.

 If the gun-grabbers are looking for an Alamo...IMO this is the place. The NRA will have to decide if it's worth it first though. Pyrrhic victories happen. It may be the NRA decides it's not worth it, even though it's all but a sure "win" for them.

Hubris-check time. 

  

 

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9 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

The issue with accessorizing your WMD is these particular modifications increase the lethality of an already lethal weapon.  High cap mags combined with bump stocks will be scrutinized by the masses as unnecessary for civil society.  They will become well regulated.

So...I haven't gotten through the rest of this thread, but have a question for you, Spatial Ed.  Are you saying that bump stocks and high capacity mags DO have a place and are necessary in "civil society"?   I'm a weapon owning civilian, and for the life of me (or anyone else) see no redeeming quality or reason these would possibly exist, except to reign terror as seen this past weekend.  I'm not wanting to get into any kind of rights issue, I just want someone to explain why anyone would want/need either of these.

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3 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

he was screened in 08 and was due in 13 to be renewed....   so FAA has bared him from legally flying since 13....

 

doesn't me he wasn't flying illegally.  he owned a couple planes i think

 

 

2 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

Nope.  If he let his medical expire in 2013.  He could continue to fly under sport pilot restrictions or fly a glider.  

And the FAA 3rd class medical doesn’t check for mental stability, only does your eyes, BP and pee.  You do need to self report any meds or other conditions.  He could lie about that.

 

grazie.  I was hoping some pilots could clarify that point.

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15 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Haven’t heard what the other 10 firearms were, just that they were mostly rifles.  But with those bump stocks, he’ll, he wouldn’t even need to reload, just grab the next off the stack.  How can these even be considered legal?  I think there needs to be some house cleaning in the ATF.

It's now structured the way the NRA wants it...weak and incompetent. I don't see a likelihood they will ever allow that to improve. With the NRA still in full control of the US Congress cleaning that house would be like taking a shower and putting on dirty underwear. 

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3 hours ago, frenchie said:

uh, guys?  He had a pilots license.  I'm told that means he had already been screened for mental health?  Just sayin.

No.

 The "screening" for MH in pilot medicals is looking to see if you checked any of the boxes "yes" on the questions about having a history of mental health problems and not going Daffy Duck in the examination room while in the doc checks your eyes, ears, BP, and piss for diabetes. There may be an additional computer check done for a record of MH problems but lacking that you WILL be good to go. 

 

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4 hours ago, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

There is an incredible amount of bullshit in the media when it comes to guns I wouldn't believe everything you read.

The media all ignore the full auto AK47 he started shooting with because they have a fixation on AR15s, the comparison in your link with semi auto from the Orlando Islamic terrorist is misleading because he was probably aiming at people instead of spray and pray. I am 100% certain the first gun he used was the AK from the sound , surely they could say if that AK was legally obtained since all legal full autos have been registered since 1986.

I think the bump stocks are a waste of money and it's interesting thanks to the media coverage on them people are reporting they are now sold out when they weren't selling many of them before the media made them into a big deal.

A homicidal and suicidal person is the worst case scenario for a mental health professional to deal with which is the real elephant in the room, have any of the media mentioned this or are they obsessed with Ar15s?

 

Did you listen to the clips or look at the shot counts? Hard to argue when you count the rounds per minute or listen to the pattern.

 

could you opine on the facts the NYT provided?

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13 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I don't know anything about them.

Lark was asking if they can be used on my .22 assault rifle. My guess is that it doesn't have enough recoil but I don't know. Does anyone?

5) Two 'bump stocks'. While not weapons in themselves, these stocks modify semi-automatic weapons allowing for something close to fully-automatic fire. They fit over the stock of a semi-auto rifle, and function by allowing the weapon to 'bump' back and forth as it is fired using the weapon's recoil. Each bump brings the user's finger down on the trigger, firing a round. This allows users to skirt around regulations prohibiting fully-automatic weapons. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944234/Two-23-rifles-inside-Stephen-Paddock-s-room.html#ixzz4uaYZvIe4 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

1464139-4944234-image-a-12_1507106379065

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The point Tom was making is that a .22 doesn't have enough recoil for it to work. 

Trigger crank would, though.

 

BTW... bumpfiring can be done with any rifle that has sufficient recoil, even without the special stock.  Hell on accuracy (you have to hold the gun loosely, let it bounce against your trigger finger), and takes awhile to get the hang of it, but it can be done.  

 

 

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8 hours ago, Snore said:

Great discussion of bump stocks and a comparison of manual, bump stock and full auto rate here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/us/bump-stock-las-vegas-gun.html

While I will defer to your knowledge of weapons, the facts in this article are contrary to your analysis. Look at the rate of fire patterns on the bottom of the article. The frequency is erratic, not smooth like a full auto.   I am now 100% sure he used a bump stock.  

So why are these things out there?  I support the second amendment.  I believe in the right to bear arms and even in concealed weapons.  But I do not believe the intent of the second was to allow citizens to own weapons of war. 

They're out there because the machine gun registry was closed in 1986 but some people still like a high rate of fire. I've never understood it, but they do.

Pre-1986 machine guns are very expensive, so they use bump stocks.

I'm not sure they have a really measurable effect on lethality. Any of those guns with a standard stock is just about the same. Lower rate of fire but more accurate would be my guess. Again, I've never actually seen nor held one.

As for the .22, I guess some missed the Adkins Accelerator aside, but yes, they really do make a bump stock for the Ruger 10-22 and the ten year old review says it fires smoothly and accurately.

Whatever. I still don't want one but it is pretty impressive that they figured a way to make it cycle using the recoil from a .22.

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3 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

They're out there because the machine gun registry was closed in 1986 but some people still like a high rate of fire. I've never understood it, but they do.

Pre-1986 machine guns are very expensive, so they use bump stocks.

I'm not sure they have a really measurable effect on lethality. Any of those guns with a standard stock is just about the same. Lower rate of fire but more accurate would be my guess. Again, I've never actually seen nor held one.

As for the .22, I guess some missed the Adkins Accelerator aside, but yes, they really do make a bump stock for the Ruger 10-22 and the ten year old review says it fires smoothly and accurately.

Whatever. I still don't want one but it is pretty impressive that they figured a way to make it cycle using the recoil from a .22.

Looks like you won't get a chance to even try one. This may be the sacrificial lamb the House throws out to calm worries.

 

"In a departure from years of opposition to new gun control measures, some congressional Republicans started to show cautious interest Wednesday in legislation that would restrict devices that enable semi-automatic rifles to fire rapidly like automatic weapons. 

Sen. John Cornyn, the No. 2 Republican in the Senate, said he would like a hearing on the issue to learn more and said he has already brought it up to Sen. Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate judiciary committee. 
Cornyn, who said he owns "a lot of guns," said he found it odd that such a device, known as a "bump stock," can be used legally to convert semi-automatic weapons. "I think that's a legitimate question," he said, adding that it was an "obvious concern." 
For his part, Grassley said he wanted a full investigation into the massacre in Las Vegas -- where a gunman killed at least 58 and wounded more than 500 earlier this week -- before he moved forward with a hearing. 
Going farther than Cornyn, Sen. Ron Johnson flat-out said he had "no problem" banning the device. 
"Automatic weapons are illegal," the Wisconsin Republican told reporters. "To me, that is part of that same type of process. So I have no problem banning those."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/dianne-feinstein-gun-control-bump-stocks/index.html

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4 hours ago, J T said:

So...I haven't gotten through the rest of this thread, but have a question for you, Spatial Ed.  Are you saying that bump stocks and high capacity mags DO have a place and are necessary in "civil society"?   I'm a weapon owning civilian, and for the life of me (or anyone else) see no redeeming quality or reason these would possibly exist, except to reign terror as seen this past weekend.  I'm not wanting to get into any kind of rights issue, I just want someone to explain why anyone would want/need either of these.

Have you watched the promo videos on the bump stock?  Seems like a hoot to shoot.  Sure, only for those with enough coin to feed it, but man, if you don’t have a boner after emptying a clip, you need to check your testies for blood flow.

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19 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

They're out there because.

there are sociopathic gun nuts, aided and abetted by weirdos like you, who think they've any need for a fully auto weapon in their life.

Other than mass murder, or masturbation, they don't.

But you think they should have them. Fuck you Tom.

 

As much as I despise you pathetic sacks of shits, I wish I could cash in on you stupid fucks. God damn, it's a decade long feeding trough selling shit you don't need and can't use. 

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14 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Looks like you won't get a chance to even try one. This may be the sacrificial lamb the House throws out to calm worries.

 

"In a departure from years of opposition to new gun control measures, some congressional Republicans started to show cautious interest Wednesday in legislation that would restrict devices that enable semi-automatic rifles to fire rapidly like automatic weapons. 

Sen. John Cornyn, the No. 2 Republican in the Senate, said he would like a hearing on the issue to learn more and said he has already brought it up to Sen. Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate judiciary committee. 
Cornyn, who said he owns "a lot of guns," said he found it odd that such a device, known as a "bump stock," can be used legally to convert semi-automatic weapons. "I think that's a legitimate question," he said, adding that it was an "obvious concern." 
For his part, Grassley said he wanted a full investigation into the massacre in Las Vegas -- where a gunman killed at least 58 and wounded more than 500 earlier this week -- before he moved forward with a hearing. 
Going farther than Cornyn, Sen. Ron Johnson flat-out said he had "no problem" banning the device. 
"Automatic weapons are illegal," the Wisconsin Republican told reporters. "To me, that is part of that same type of process. So I have no problem banning those."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/dianne-feinstein-gun-control-bump-stocks/index.html

Meh.

I don't think the machine gun registry should be closed and think we should make them disappear by reopening it but don't really care about this ban.

It doesn't make me feel any safer. If others who have suddenly discovered that these things have been around for years feel safer banning them, it seems like a useless gesture to me but not any new threat to second amendment rights.

I don't think any of the gun nutz here has ever seen one and none of us seem to want one.

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52 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Looks like you won't get a chance to even try one. This may be the sacrificial lamb the House throws out to calm worries.

 

"In a departure from years of opposition to new gun control measures, some congressional Republicans started to show cautious interest Wednesday in legislation that would restrict devices that enable semi-automatic rifles to fire rapidly like automatic weapons. 

Sen. John Cornyn, the No. 2 Republican in the Senate, said he would like a hearing on the issue to learn more and said he has already brought it up to Sen. Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate judiciary committee. 
Cornyn, who said he owns "a lot of guns," said he found it odd that such a device, known as a "bump stock," can be used legally to convert semi-automatic weapons. "I think that's a legitimate question," he said, adding that it was an "obvious concern." 
For his part, Grassley said he wanted a full investigation into the massacre in Las Vegas -- where a gunman killed at least 58 and wounded more than 500 earlier this week -- before he moved forward with a hearing. 
Going farther than Cornyn, Sen. Ron Johnson flat-out said he had "no problem" banning the device. 
"Automatic weapons are illegal," the Wisconsin Republican told reporters. "To me, that is part of that same type of process. So I have no problem banning those."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/dianne-feinstein-gun-control-bump-stocks/index.html

And Trump is the only pres that might get it done

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14 minutes ago, Scratchanot said:

And Trump is the only pres that might get it done

The moron is so unreliable, he might even ban all assault weapons if Nancy and chuck want it.

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

They're out there because the machine gun registry was closed in 1986 but some people still like a high rate of fire. I've never understood it, but they do.

Pre-1986 machine guns are very expensive, so they use bump stocks.

I'm not sure they have a really measurable effect on lethality. Any of those guns with a standard stock is just about the same. Lower rate of fire but more accurate would be my guess. Again, I've never actually seen nor held one.

As for the .22, I guess some missed the Adkins Accelerator aside, but yes, they really do make a bump stock for the Ruger 10-22 and the ten year old review says it fires smoothly and accurately.

Whatever. I still don't want one but it is pretty impressive that they figured a way to make it cycle using the recoil from a .22.

A 10-22 can be turned into a fully auto by modifying a sear in the 'mechanism'. You then adjust rate of fire by changing springs.

 

It slam fires. Like any good ww2 submachine gun. Think sten gun.

 

Apparently.....

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3 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Looks like you won't get a chance to even try one. This may be the sacrificial lamb the House throws out to calm worries.

 

"In a departure from years of opposition to new gun control measures, some congressional Republicans started to show cautious interest Wednesday in legislation that would restrict devices that enable semi-automatic rifles to fire rapidly like automatic weapons. 

Sen. John Cornyn, the No. 2 Republican in the Senate, said he would like a hearing on the issue to learn more and said he has already brought it up to Sen. Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate judiciary committee. 
Cornyn, who said he owns "a lot of guns," said he found it odd that such a device, known as a "bump stock," can be used legally to convert semi-automatic weapons. "I think that's a legitimate question," he said, adding that it was an "obvious concern." 
For his part, Grassley said he wanted a full investigation into the massacre in Las Vegas -- where a gunman killed at least 58 and wounded more than 500 earlier this week -- before he moved forward with a hearing. 
Going farther than Cornyn, Sen. Ron Johnson flat-out said he had "no problem" banning the device. 
"Automatic weapons are illegal," the Wisconsin Republican told reporters. "To me, that is part of that same type of process. So I have no problem banning those."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/dianne-feinstein-gun-control-bump-stocks/index.html

If someone wants one they will make one rather than buy one.  Making them illegal will certainly create the appearance of ‘doing something’.     

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3 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

there are sociopathic gun nuts, aided and abetted by weirdos like you, who think they've any need for a fully auto weapon in their life.

Other than mass murder, or masturbation, they don't.

But you think they should have them. Fuck you Tom.

 

As much as I despise you pathetic sacks of shits, I wish I could cash in on you stupid fucks. God damn, it's a decade long feeding trough selling shit you don't need and can't use. 

What makes you think you can’t use them?  

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26 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

If someone wants one they will make one rather than buy one.  Making them illegal will certainly create the appearance of ‘doing something’.     

After all, what is the point of even making a law if it won't be enforced?

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4 hours ago, Battlecheese said:

After all, what is the point of even making a law if it won't be enforced?

No law is a guarantee it will end something.

Many, many years ago, while in my 20’s I was involved in loss prevention for Con Edison on the (then) wild’n’wolly Lower Eastside.  I quickly learned, “Locks keep honest people honest, and stops amateurs”. Restricting bumps stocks and other bolt-on modifications that change the fire rate is the same.  

As already posted, skilled gun owners and gun smiths can still modify the mechanism.

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I went to see what real gun nutz had to say:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590111

They point out that Sen Feinstein wants to ban fingers, since many rifles can be bump fired without a special stock.

I did find one of the rate of fire fans.

Quote

That said, ive had one of those $99 bumpfire stocks for a good while and its been great fun at the range. I was able to dump 30 rounds in 3 seconds. Works out to 600 RPM. I even got my friend on when I got mine, his family is rabidly anti gun and hates him for even having an AR-15, if they only knew of his bump fire stock biggrin.gif

I don't get it. I could dump 30 rounds into my next bonfire even more quickly and would probably be more entertained by the results, but I'm not doing that either.

I have occasionally emptied a magazine as fast as I could pull the trigger. Just for fun. Put part of the fun is seeing how fast I can pull the trigger and whether I can still hit what I'm trying to hit (the answer to the latter is, of course, not very well.)

I view rate of fire as mostly inversely related to both fun and lethality.

But that guy wants to dump 30 rounds in 3 seconds using a $99 stock.

People call strange things fun. I'm a person. I've raced Sun Cats for fun. Top that.

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6 hours ago, Rockdog said:

If someone wants one they will make one rather than buy one.  Making them illegal will certainly create the appearance of ‘doing something’.     

Bump stocks can be 3D printed. The software is out there. 

 

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Just now, Sean said:

Bump stocks can be 3D printed. The software is out there. 

 

If possession would make all future firearms illegal due to your felony conviction and the gov used crawlers like the music companies and shutterstock do, they would still be rare.   

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19 hours ago, Snore said:

Great discussion of bump stocks and a comparison of manual, bump stock and full auto rate here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/us/bump-stock-las-vegas-gun.html

While I will defer to your knowledge of weapons, the facts in this article are contrary to your analysis. Look at the rate of fire patterns on the bottom of the article. The frequency is erratic, not smooth like a full auto.   I am now 100% sure he used a bump stock.  

So why are these things out there?  I support the second amendment.  I believe in the right to bear arms and even in concealed weapons.  But I do not believe the intent of the second was to allow citizens to own weapons of war. 

 

Last thing first- Why isn't the 2nd Amendment intended to allow citizens to won weapons of war? It is intended for the citizens to be able to become the country's self-defense force. In order to fight off an invading army, something the Founding Fathers had direct experience with, they would need 'weapons of war.' 

Way way back when I was young and dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I bought a kit for a really cute little imitation machine gun. It clamped two .22LR receivers in a frame, mounted on a tripod, with the magazines pointing up so they could be swapped quickly & easily. You could even put muzzle cooling rings on it, looked just like a twin MG mount you see in the war movies. You turned a little crank and it fired a hundred rounds much quicker than I typed this. Because it was on a tripod, you could walk the fire onto a target (I liked to hit old abandoned cars) and literally saw that target into chunks.

But stacking 50 round clips is a PITA, .22 ammo can't be reloaded and it got expensive, I got bored with it and sold it (disassembled) to a neighbor. It was not illegal then to own such a thing, but as far as I knew, it was illegal to assemble it into the equivalent of a fully automatic weapon and fire it as such. I mostly used it at a gun club in North Florida that had a lot of policemen as members. Nobody batted an eye.

No reason why somebody couldn't do the same thing now, with a pair of AK copies or some such. You could do up a pair of the .50cal auto-loaders but they might be a bit finicky to get sustaining a high rate of fire. Yes it would be illegal as all fuck. So?

You also have to be smart. From what I see about "bump stocks" it's dirt-simple. You could make one yourself out of popsicle sticks and duck tape. Or just train your finger to hold that position. But to do that, you also have to know a few things and be motivated. Buying a bump stock for a given weapon is easy. Any sociopath who wants to kill a lot those goddam people who are always pissing him off can do it.

This is a problem in our society.

-DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Last thing first- Why isn't the 2nd Amendment intended to allow citizens to won weapons of war? It is intended for the citizens to be able to become the country's self-defense force. In order to fight off an invading army, something the Founding Fathers had direct experience with, they would need 'weapons of war.' 

Way way back when I was young and dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I bought a kit for a really cute little imitation machine gun. It clamped two .22LR receivers in a frame, mounted on a tripod, with the magazines pointing up so they could be swapped quickly & easily. You could even put muzzle cooling rings on it, looked just like a twin MG mount you see in the war movies. You turned a little crank and it fired a hundred rounds much quicker than I typed this. Because it was on a tripod, you could walk the fire onto a target (I liked to hit old abandoned cars) and literally saw that target into chunks.

But stacking 50 round clips is a PITA, .22 ammo can't be reloaded and it got expensive, I got bored with it and sold it (disassembled) to a neighbor. It was not illegal then to own such a thing, but as far as I knew, it was illegal to assemble it into the equivalent of a fully automatic weapon and fire it as such. I mostly used it at a gun club in North Florida that had a lot of policemen as members. Nobody batted an eye.

No reason why somebody couldn't do the same thing now, with a pair of AK copies or some such. You could do up a pair of the .50cal auto-loaders but they might be a bit finicky to get sustaining a high rate of fire. Yes it would be illegal as all fuck. So?

You also have to be smart. From what I see about "bump stocks" it's dirt-simple. You could make one yourself out of popsicle sticks and duck tape. Or just train your finger to hold that position. But to do that, you also have to know a few things and be motivated. Buying a bump stock for a given weapon is easy. Any sociopath who wants to kill a lot those goddam people who are always pissing him off can do it.

This is a problem in our society.

-DSK

 

 

The next invasion we will will repel is not going to land on the beaches or be paratroopers.  It will be missles and cyber attacks.  In that sense the Second is out of touch with modern warfare.  Americans need the right to have reasonable weapons.  It is part of our crazy culture.

 

As stated by me previously, banning full autos will not end their existence.  It is simply an attempt to keep the amateurs from having them.  A good machinist or gunsmith can always make a full automatic weapon. Or even a significant bomb.   We as a people need to say “stop the shit and ban these weapons.”  But the NRA money clip is controlling the Republican legislators.

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2 minutes ago, Snore said:

 

The next invasion we will will repel is not going to land on the beaches or be paratroopers.  It will be missles and cyber attacks.  In that sense the Second is out of touch with modern warfare.  Americans need the right to have reasonable weapons.  It is part of our crazy culture.

 

As stated by me previously, banning full autos will not end their existence.  It is simply an attempt to keep the amateurs from having them.  A good machinist or gunsmith can always make a full automatic weapon. Or even a significant bomb.   We as a people need to say “stop the shit and ban these weapons.”  But the NRA money clip is controlling the Republican legislators.

Full autos are illegal now. There are just loopholes. And the enforcement is feeble at best. I dunno what the answer is, and it's so polarized and politicized that any "ban" is sure to become so, too. I don't see that as a good answer. But I don't have any ideas how to go about it.

-DSK

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5 hours ago, Snore said:

No law is a guarantee it will end something.

Many, many years ago, while in my 20’s I was involved in loss prevention for Con Edison on the (then) wild’n’wolly Lower Eastside.  I quickly learned, “Locks keep honest people honest, and stops amateurs”. Restricting bumps stocks and other bolt-on modifications that change the fire rate is the same.  

As already posted, skilled gun owners and gun smiths can still modify the mechanism.

Of course they can. Do you think this guy would have?

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Full autos are illegal now. There are just loopholes. And the enforcement is feeble at best.

The registry was closed to any new guns in 1986. So post-1986 machine guns are banned. The big loophole is that a couple hundred thousand existing guns were not confiscated and can be bought and sold. But the enforcement is extremely strict. And the prices are extremely high compared to semi-auto versions.

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On 10/4/2017 at 3:43 PM, Snore said:
On 10/4/2017 at 3:26 PM, Mohammed Bin Lyin said:

Why are people more concerned about the poxy bump stocks and not the full auto rifle he had?

In theory fully automatic weapons are highly regulated.  So if he acquired one, the question is how.  Anyone can buy a bump stock.

Fully auto weapons are highly regulated but not illegal.  You only need to be the correct kind of per$on to own one.  It$ fairly ea$y to get a cla$$ III licen$e if you have the right credential$.  

Bump stocks..... fucking ban them.  Today.  I never knew they even existed.  I've had the occasional "bump fire" when you get 2-3 rounds off because you didn't have the stock shouldered correctly and there was nothing for the recoil to work against.  Usually with a very light trigger.  But bump stocks are for fags.  

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22 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Fully auto weapons are highly regulated but not illegal.  You only need to be the correct kind of per$on to own one.  It$ fairly ea$y to get a cla$$ III licen$e if you have the right credential$.  

Bump stocks..... fucking ban them.  Today.  I never knew they even existed.  I've had the occasional "bump fire" when you get 2-3 rounds off because you didn't have the stock shouldered correctly and there was nothing for the recoil to work against.  Usually with a very light trigger.  But bump stocks are for fags.  

There are 11,000 fully automatic weapons registered in Nevada.

I knew about bump stock gear but Jeffie didn't? Not very likely.

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I've shot automatic weapons - M16, M60, 50 Cal - it's fun, and they have a military purpose, and yeah - I do think it's ok for civilians to enjoy spending $75 for 30 seconds of fun at the range if that's what they want to do.   

A buddy made a bump-stock mod to an AR15 - I tried it - and gave it back to him with ridicule.  It is dumb, you can't aim, the only thing it lets you do is waste a lot of ammo real quickly.  He agreed, and said that he only built it to try it out.  He shoulda cut the thing in half - but, he took it off and sold it for $50.  I hate the idea of legislating the existence of objects - even if they're useless as a bump stock, but, if outlawing them helps people feel like something's being done?  This is one that I'm not gonna complain about. 

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Gun nutters are cleaning gun shops out of bump stocks because they know they will be banned.  So after they are banned, they will be instant felons if they don’t turn them in.  Do they think the government will have a buy back program?  What a bunch of maroons.

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36 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Fully auto weapons are highly regulated but not illegal.  You only need to be the correct kind of per$on to own one.  It$ fairly ea$y to get a cla$$ III licen$e if you have the right credential$.  

Bump stocks..... fucking ban them.  Today.  I never knew they even existed.  I've had the occasional "bump fire" when you get 2-3 rounds off because you didn't have the stock shouldered correctly and there was nothing for the recoil to work against.  Usually with a very light trigger.  But bump stocks are for fags.  

Actually bump stocks are considered range toys for the "Mall Ninja" crowd.

Good for wasting ammo, but are not at all accurate.

If banning them makes the grabbers feel like we "did" something, let them have them. However what will happen to the hundreds of thousands sold? They have probably already quadrupled in value...

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13 hours ago, Rockdog said:

If someone wants one they will make one rather than buy one.  Making them illegal will certainly create the appearance of ‘doing something’.     

A responsible gun owner will turn in his bump stocks.  An irresponsible one will not.  If an irresponsible gun owner is caught with one, he will become a felon and lose all his guns.  Where will the irresponsible go to use their banned booty?

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3 minutes ago, Greever said:

Actually bump stocks are considered range toys for the "Mall Ninja" crowd.

Good for wasting ammo, but are not at all accurate.

If banning them makes the grabbers feel like we "did" something, let them have them. However what will happen to the hundreds of thousands sold? They have probably already quadrupled in value...

The ban includes the transfer and possession.  They will become worthless except for criminals.  Who would risk a felony selling one to a stranger?

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1 minute ago, Spatial Ed said:

A responsible gun owner will turn in his bump stocks.  An irresponsible one will not.  If an irresponsible gun owner is caught with one, he will become a felon and lose all his guns.  Where will the irresponsible go to use their banned booty?

Even after the 1994 assault weapons ban, the pre ban guns remained legal, but their value soared. Especially magazines that held ten rounds or more.

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Just now, Greever said:

Even after the 1994 assault weapons ban, the pre ban guns remained legal, but their value soared. Especially magazines that held ten rounds or more.

The current bill states possession and transfer is banned.  Loop hole closed.

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5 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

The ban includes the transfer and possession.  They will become worthless except for criminals.  Who would risk a felony selling one to a stranger?

I haven't seen the text of the proposed legislation.  Are you certain of that point?  

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2 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

The current bill states possession and transfer is banned.  Loop hole closed.

It will be interesting to see how they enforce that law, if it passes.

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Hadn't seen it yet, so an order of magnitude calc:

AK 47 fires 600 rounds per minute

AR 15 with bump assist can do anywhere from 100 to 900  rounds per minute, depending on the bumper and AR model.

So estimate 600 rpm for the AR, with time to move from weapon to weapon + the AK the same, say 11 minutes spent actually shooting ~ 6600 rounds landing on those poor folk.  Thats one round for ~ 1/3 of the people in the enclosure.

At 20 rpm, thats 220 rounds- .033% of this ^

At 10 rpm, that's 110 rounds- .001515% of the estimate ^

Holy Christ.  Rate of Fire.  The statistical nature of modern warfare....

 

 

 

 

 

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