Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, dbeauvar said:

 

Structure of the arms is one design. Some of the fairing part is done by the team.

I think the last 50cm or so that connect the foil to the arm is not one-design and could be angled to allow better crabing of the boat.

 

Blue sky,

D.

I hear what you are saying.  But I think the gains are limited by the rules.  The powerhouse is the key - the main sail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dbeauvar said:

completely agree, was just answering the one-design question.

 

Blue sky,

D.

I think foil design is a red herring in terms of performance gains.

In Bermuda it wasn't the foils that won the day but ETNZ's capability to have enough hydraulic power to make more adjustments than anyone else.  Primarily with the wing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I hear what you are saying.  But I think the gains are limited by the rules.  The powerhouse is the key - the main sail.

image.png.798fe90079b632caf56b9b6f935768ea.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, t_huebs said:

What is super interesting about the design in this cup cycle are the tradeoffs and we may see a couple different ways to get to roughly the same net solution.  We may also see teams get it significantly more right than others.  This is why the America's cup is cool.

Great post and I agree, it's hundreds of little compromises here and there. I just thought generating more righting moment with the rudder could be one of the factors. That, and opening up the gap between the jib and the main were the only two things I could think of that may explain the "crabbing" that we clearly see in the videos. Reducing the foil AOA at high speed could be another. One thing is for sure, they pay a price in hull aero drag, so there must be a reason why they do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dbeauvar said:

 

Structure of the arms is one design. Some of the fairing part is done by the team.

I think the last 50cm or so that connect the foil to the arm is not one-design and could be angled to allow better crabing of the boat.

 

Blue sky,

D.

I don't think the foil arm produces any significant lift in either direction. Its job is to hold the foils and it's faired to minimize drag.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, erdb said:

I don't think the foil arm produces any significant lift in either direction. Its job is to hold the foils and it's faired to minimize drag.

Is the cross section of the foil arms symmetrical or asymmetric - does anyone know?  (On any of the boats)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Indio said:

Thanks. Great picture showing Patriot's barrel-chestAM21.jpg.2e2e391c395fcabe7a0c3a92755faf77.jpg

In America, it is known as a beer belly.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Varan said:

In America, it is known as a beer belly.

V that's some pretty slick looking beer belly.

 

yysw298639.jpg.e580a178178005798a36f04eb3a0d0f9.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

V that's some pretty slick looking beer belly.

 

yysw298639.jpg.e580a178178005798a36f04eb3a0d0f9.jpg

Reminds of a tadpole shape...image.png.e1325adbbf71ae7add00ea0a3f2cc8c2.png

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, erdb said:

I don't think the foil arm produces any significant lift in either direction. Its job is to hold the foils and it's faired to minimize drag.

The short vertical connecting section above the 3 way junction / bulb is what I would call an extension of the arm.  This is the "part of the arm" that acts most like a dagger board on a typical boat.  It obviously provides significant lateral lift except when very little of it is in the water (much of the foil out of the water on the Y foil boats). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Varan said:

From article: “The forward sections have been shaped in such a way that if Patriot does make contact with the surface, the volume in the forward section of the hull cuts in quickly to provide the buoyancy to get the AC75 back on her feet.”

Interesting, so if they do sail bow down and have a bit of a touch and go, could this prove to be an advantage with less of a wetted surface compared to LR and Ineos with keel/skeg/bustles the entire length? Makes me think more like Te Ahie, bustle is only prominent the middle 60ish percent of the boat, bow and stern have less, Patriot looks like similar percentage just the front 60ish percent of hull. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yysw298639.jpg.e580a178178005798a36f04eb3a0d0f9.jpg

My eyes are not "CFD calibrated", but to me Patriot looks to have the main sealed off to the deck very nicely and generally good airfow on the aft half of the boat.    

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Varan said:

It's from excess good craft beer.

FIFY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm

The B2 boat looks a lot better 

better Stability

better control of height

skeg is close to the water causing a boundary effect

Better Sails

Spray from swing arm seems to shot out the back in a more controlled manner

subjective view here ....it looks faster....those chase boats seem flat out 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, classfve said:

At about 4:30, turned into the wind, powered up and on foils in about a second or less.  Impressive.

With such short takeoffs, perhaps the odd drop of the foils isn't always the end of the race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the foils (and I include the arm) is configured to crab to windward, won't it also then crab to windward on the downwind leg and thus be less efficient? Or do we think that the flap adjustment can be used to correct that between the legs (not sure i can see how at present).

Given relative VMG upwind and downwind it may still be worth it to improve upwind at the expense of downwind even if you can't correct it, but it does complicate the trade-off

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, P Flados said:

yysw298639.jpg.e580a178178005798a36f04eb3a0d0f9.jpg

My eyes are not "CFD calibrated", but to me Patriot looks to have the main sealed off to the deck very nicely and generally good airfow on the aft half of the boat.    

 

The crew stick out some on the stern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

If the foils (and I include the arm) is configured to crab to windward, won't it also then crab to windward on the downwind leg and thus be less efficient? Or do we think that the flap adjustment can be used to correct that between the legs (not sure i can see how at present).

Given relative VMG upwind and downwind it may still be worth it to improve upwind at the expense of downwind even if you can't correct it, but it does complicate the trade-off

I think they may be changing their lift with ride height. 

 

Amwagic have definitely evolved the most with B2, and have lots of time on the water. Expect they'll be a tough out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mako23 said:

Hmm

The B2 boat looks a lot better 

better Stability

better control of height

skeg is close to the water causing a boundary effect

Better Sails

Spray from swing arm seems to shot out the back in a more controlled manner

subjective view here ....it looks faster....those chase boats seem flat out 

In that 'Hummingbird' (?) vid there is also a lot of leech movement on the mainsail, particularly high-up, look from about 1:45 onwards. Maybe I've just not noticed this before or is this another of their gains with B2? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, NZK said:

In that 'Hummingbird' (?) vid there is also a lot of leech movement on the mainsail, particularly high-up, look from about 1:45 onwards. Maybe I've just not noticed this before or is this another of their gains with B2? 

In the first AM video on this page there was some weird harmonics going up top of the rig. Almost looks like flutter, At the moment we’re into a brand new world of sailing. Other users might be better informed in this area. I just don’t know if that shaking at the top is significant of something else going on. I did notice there jib was cut flatter than older versions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching that video I think that is active control and not some instability in the skins.  I'm dying to know what the teams are running in the head of the main. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, RMac said:

Watching that video I think that is active control and not some instability in the skins.  I'm dying to know what the teams are running in the head of the main. 

Agree it’s deliberate power control twisting the head to keep control 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mako23 said:

In the first AM video on this page there was some weird harmonics going up top of the rig. Almost looks like flutter, At the moment we’re into a brand new world of sailing. Other users might be better informed in this area. I just don’t know if that shaking at the top is significant of something else going on. I did notice there jib was cut flatter than older versions

I actually think it’s intentional. Remember that the sail trimmer is Paul Goodison a world  champion Moth sailor. They pump the sails on a Moth. So... perhaps their doing the same. It seems to intentional not accidental or issue related.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look back at one of the first vids of defiant the speed that the boom cars were adjusting was incredible, easily enough to set up this action 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, barfy said:

The crew stick out some on the stern.

I noted that. 

It is obvious that they forgot to recruit enough super strong and high endurance grinders that happen to be very short.

More seriously, it would appear that all of the deign teams spent a lot of time factoring in the aero for crew layout.  Patriot does have them arranged in a straight line and packed together pretty close there in the back.

That great shot of the first day oops shows off what seems to be a pretty good overall crew / deck layout.

IMG_1945.jpeg.b2988dcbf05272ee916e3a4c3e0c1ff8.jpeg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

If the foils (and I include the arm) is configured to crab to windward, won't it also then crab to windward on the downwind leg and thus be less efficient? Or do we think that the flap adjustment can be used to correct that between the legs (not sure i can see how at present).

Given relative VMG upwind and downwind it may still be worth it to improve upwind at the expense of downwind even if you can't correct it, but it does complicate the trade-off

I think crabbing is the wrong term. It implies that it directly affects VMG. It doesn't. VMG is determined by the foils and the rigs. You could in theory stick a hull between them pointing in any direction you wanted. For some reason they sail with the bow slightly turned off the wind relative to the direction of movement, and it seems they do it downwind, too.

Why? I'm not sure but would love to find out.

That video above is pretty conclusive I think.

This is from around 1:00. 

 

patriot-yl2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, erdb said:

For some reason they sail with the bow slightly turned off the wind relative to the direction of movement, and it seems they do it downwind, too.

Why? I'm not sure but would love to find out.

Maybe it’s a case of while the rig is pointed as close as possible to the AWA (example 18 deg) the actual heading of the boat can be even closer (example 16 deg) - thereby gaining VMG? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Agree it’s deliberate power control twisting the head to keep control 

It looks to me more like the control is coming from down low and we are seeing the response up top subsequently, though I am far from sure. Maybe if someone can slow it down it'll be obvious looking at the leech (whether the upper leech moves first or the lower leech). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, I14RACER said:

I actually think it’s intentional. Remember that the sail trimmer is Paul Goodison a world  champion Moth sailor. They pump the sails on a Moth. So... perhaps their doing the same. It seems to intentional not accidental or issue related.

Yep, there's a section in that vid where it looks like Goody starts to pump the main just as they drop down on the foils a bit in a light patch...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, NZK said:

Yep, there's a section in that vid where it looks like Goody starts to pump the main just as they drop down on the foils a bit in a light patch...

Yep. In the first video, right at 2:45, you can see her start to heel to windward and start to fall off foils. Then all of a sudden the upper sail start to pump aggressively. Then stops once their back at proper orientation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do the foil vectors look like? The foil and arm are what's sailing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Indio said:

image.png.798fe90079b632caf56b9b6f935768ea.png

For the mains, is that 10 total skins or 10 pairs of skins (20 total) with the twin skin set-up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Brutal said:

For the mains, is that 10 total skins or 10 pairs of skins (20 total) with the twin skin set-up?

I would say 1 mainsail is 2 skins, therefore you have a total of 20 skins you can produce.

 

Blue Sky

D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Brutal said:

For the mains, is that 10 total skins or 10 pairs of skins (20 total) with the twin skin set-up?

Class Rule clauses 18 and 19 refer only to "sail skin", so my guess would be 10 "sail skins".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as i understand it booms can be changed at any time and there is no limit to amount or design

just have to do it before the final measure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

 

Nice and smooth - and fast. Love the barrel-chested profile image.png.9282a224c01eff0181acc9984e9934c8.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Indio said:

Nice and smooth - and fast. Love the barrel-chested profile

Dumb question about that: Does the Ineos hull, with their ‘Skison’ extending all the way to the transom, mean anything about rudder stock lengths? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Dumb question about that: Does the Ineos hull, with their ‘Skison’ extending all the way to the transom, mean anything about rudder stock lengths? 

Not dumb... the rudder is specified as to maximum depth, and it appears that all boats have used the maximum. So the stock (below MWP) could be shorter, but doesn't look like it.

16.4 With the rudder centre plane aligned with LCP, and at all rake angles that can be achieved, no wetted part of the rudder shall extend:(a) below a waterline plane 3.500 m below MWP(b) aft of TRP; or (c) forward of a transverse plane 1.500 m forward of TRP

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Dumb question about that: Does the Ineos hull, with their ‘Skison’ extending all the way to the transom, mean anything about rudder stock lengths? 

Stops short of the rudder......like Luna

1032056541_ineosb2boom.thumb.jpeg.68a9034cb8b72554265c6661732d7a44.jpeg

eight_col_Luna_Rossa.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very smooth and stable using the same foils off of Defiant.  Time to slim them down and push them more to the edge of control.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, erdb said:

I think crabbing is the wrong term. It implies that it directly affects VMG. It doesn't. VMG is determined by the foils and the rigs. You could in theory stick a hull between them pointing in any direction you wanted. For some reason they sail with the bow slightly turned off the wind relative to the direction of movement, and it seems they do it downwind, too.

Why? I'm not sure but would love to find out.

That video above is pretty conclusive I think.

This is from around 1:00. 

 

patriot-yl2.jpg

really not possible to do that measurement from that angle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/19/2020 at 5:28 AM, Rennmaus said:

He did, I will help you out, it was in 2000.

He helmed in one race. So, I guess you are 20% right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

They still haven’t really got that boom sorted, have they. 
 

 

I actually think they have the best of the design yet. Guaranteed to have more fine control with a proper boom and out haul system. The other solutions may make you think they look better but I beg to differ. Typically the no boom to articulated boom solutions produce a poor shape foil towards the bottom. This has a proper shape and only enlarge a over the boom.

i think they could still go thinner with the boom. Which would reduce the cross section interference. But it needs to be robust and stable.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, nroose said:

He helmed in one race. So, I guess you are 20% right.

Ben didn't helm at all so with your logic he didn’t win in San Fran? You should tell him. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, erdb said:

I think crabbing is the wrong term. It implies that it directly affects VMG. It doesn't. VMG is determined by the foils and the rigs. You could in theory stick a hull between them pointing in any direction you wanted. For some reason they sail with the bow slightly turned off the wind relative to the direction of movement, and it seems they do it downwind, too.

Why? I'm not sure but would love to find out.

That video above is pretty conclusive I think.

This is from around 1:00. 

 

patriot-yl2.jpg

Fucking hilarious.

Go back and watch the chase boat sailing on the same angle.

YCMTSU

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, nroose said:

He helmed in one race. So, I guess you are 20% right.

He was part of the team for the campaign. Your logic means that the grinders didn't win either? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, nroose said:

He helmed in one race. So, I guess you are 20% right.

To add to other responses

I know a number of crew from 2-man dinghies, an yacht crew from various positions who might disagree with you on this subject. Forecfully

And if I think back to some of my offshore wins, did I only win 40% or whatever percentage I helmed? Or was it a schrodinger win where I did and did not win until the trophy was presented? In which case my co-skipper on the double handeds would be pretty annoyed too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Xlot said:

Interesting, thanks. But does one need high temperature/carbon molds for out-of-autoclave layups?

Yes because other wise the expanshion and contraction will differ between the part and mold. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/22/2020 at 5:41 AM, enigmatically2 said:

If the foils (and I include the arm) is configured to crab to windward, won't it also then crab to windward on the downwind leg and thus be less efficient? Or do we think that the flap adjustment can be used to correct that between the legs (not sure i can see how at present).

Given relative VMG upwind and downwind it may still be worth it to improve upwind at the expense of downwind even if you can't correct it, but it does complicate the trade-off

Well that really depends on the arm cant angle.  By lifting the arm and moving the foils more vertical, the lifting force of the foils also pushes to windward.  By canting them down, and more under the boat, the foils resultant force is more vertical.

image.png.077a181215ef679166e9332f0fbe9e54.png

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Ben didn't helm at all so with your logic he didn’t win in San Fran? You should tell him. 

I wouldn’t if I were you @nroose, he’ll probably jump out of his boat and punch you. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

I wouldn’t if I were you @nroose, he’ll probably jump out of his boat and punch you. 

I feel for Sir Ben. In AC35, his AC50 wasn't very competitive with even people like SimonN carrying on about hydraulic and control problems, etc. This edition, his B1 has attracted some ridicule...I hope he's very competitive.

I still believe we missed a trick in Valencia-2007 by not allowing Ben to helm in at least one race - but I suspect some feared he'd show up Deano. I'd rather Ben had won the Auld Mug for us back then!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/22/2020 at 8:41 PM, enigmatically2 said:

If the foils (and I include the arm) is configured to crab to windward, won't it also then crab to windward on the downwind leg and thus be less efficient? Or do we think that the flap adjustment can be used to correct that between the legs (not sure i can see how at present).

Given relative VMG upwind and downwind it may still be worth it to improve upwind at the expense of downwind even if you can't correct it, but it does complicate the trade-off

I seem to recall that someone said the foil is canted less on downwind legs than upwind... which seems to make sense. I guess you still need some cant though, so RM doesn't decrease too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Indio said:

I feel for Sir Ben. In AC35, his AC50 wasn't very competitive with even people like SimonN carrying on about hydraulic and control problems, etc. This edition, his B1 has attracted some ridicule...I hope he's very competitive.

I still believe we missed a trick in Valencia-2007 by not allowing Ben to helm in at least one race - but I suspect some feared he'd show up Deano. I'd rather Ben had won the Auld Mug for us back then!

Dean won 2 races back then, and it went all downhill after the gennaker hoist was screwed up. But you may be right that Ben could have won the Cup. Or not. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Ben didn't helm at all so with your logic he didn’t win in San Fran? You should tell him. 

Seems like that is a little different. Different boats. Different roles. Seems like you are misunderstanding me as well. I admire Dean Barker. I think he is great. But to say he won the cup in 2000 seems misleading. He was the B boat helm for the practice races. By all accounts he performed well and was crucial to the team's success, and they won the Cup 5-0. And Coutts let him have the helm in the last race. So that's great. Ainsle didn't helm in any of the races, and was tactician in 14 of them.

And if I told that to Ben, I am not sure I would survive that interaction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JustinL42 said:

Screenshot for easy viewing. Awesome picture!

Screenshot_20201024-025430.png

Looking at this picture the speed and degree of control re ride height really comes across. I think that the combination of Barker, Goodison and Hutchinson will compliment one another.....i.e. mature, experienced under huge pressure, history of closing out tight regattas (obviously the cup exceeds everything). I hope that come race time they have a fast enough package. ........with the amount of sailing time they have had they'll likely have squeezed the potential out of the design and will not be relying on last minute bodges or gambles. I wish them well.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Chris UK said:

Looking at this picture the speed and degree of control re ride height really comes across. I think that the combination of Barker, Goodison and Hutchinson will compliment one another.....i.e. mature, experienced under huge pressure, history of closing out tight regattas (obviously the cup exceeds everything). I hope that come race time they have a fast enough package. ........with the amount of sailing time they have had they'll likely have squeezed the potential out of the design and will not be relying on last minute bodges or gambles. I wish them well.

The sentiment’s understood but,

1. You can make conclusions about speed and control from a still?

2. When was the last time Barker closed out a tight regatta?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

2. When was the last time Barker closed out a tight regatta?

When was the last time he had the best boat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Nauti Buoy said:

When was the last time he had the best boat?

Not since before he had a real position of influence in the campaigns he’s been involved in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Not since before he had a real position of influence in the campaigns he’s been involved in. 

You think Dean had significant input on the design at ETNZ or AM? Sure blame him for SBTJ as CEO but they were never serious anyway. 
Correlation doesn’t equal causation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

The sentiment’s understood but,

1. You can make conclusions about speed and control from a still?

2. When was the last time Barker closed out a tight regatta?

1) Ho, ho no. Fair point. I also had in mind the videos that have been posted.

2)  Setting Dean to one side, I would back Goodison for his Olympic and moth record and Hutchinson for his years of TP52 sailing.....that always seems to come down to fractions of a point.......he also seem to be much calmer than he used when i think back to how animated he used to get when helming the AC45s....maybe just not his preferred position....maybe now he's just better supported/enabled to do his best work.  Re Dean, there really aren't many people that have the experience to sail one of these boats. When i think back to his sailing of the AC72s, those first downwind legs either leading or behind were just incredible feats of performance under pressure. Providing that the team is happy that his reflexes are 100%, then I'd be happy with him sailing a big boat........they've got the next 2 months to get that assurance......Goodison is the understudy presumably?.....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Nauti Buoy said:

You think Dean had significant input on the design at ETNZ or AM? Sure blame him for SBTJ as CEO but they were never serious anyway. 
Correlation doesn’t equal causation. 

I wasn’t specific to “design”, but yeah. I should bloody well hope so. I don’t imagine Russell Coutts, Jimmy Spithall, Glen Ashby, Peter Burling etc not having significant input. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

I wasn’t specific to “design”, but yeah. I should bloody well hope so. I don’t imagine Russell Coutts, Jimmy Spithall, Glen Ashby, Peter Burling etc not having significant input. 

I don’t think Burling or Ashby had much to do with the design of the light air boards for the 50. Some overall concepts and general direction maybe, but that’s not what these races come down to, it’s the tiny details. Coutts in prior cups and Spithill in 2017 are different cases as they were running the campaign, like Dalton did for Dean’s losses you blame him for. 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

I wasn’t specific to “design”, but yeah. I should bloody well hope so. I don’t imagine Russell Coutts, Jimmy Spithall, Glen Ashby, Peter Burling etc not having significant input. 

They had input. At 40+ knts of boat speed how much input is all that is up for debate.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Justin Mitchell knocking it out of the park with this footage on his YouTube channel! She looks really good here.

 

 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Chris UK said:

Looking at this picture the speed and degree of control re ride height really comes across. I think that the combination of Barker, Goodison and Hutchinson will compliment one another.....i.e. mature, experienced under huge pressure, history of closing out tight regattas (obviously the cup exceeds everything). I hope that come race time they have a fast enough package. ........with the amount of sailing time they have had they'll likely have squeezed the potential out of the design and will not be relying on last minute bodges or gambles. I wish them well.

Barker under pressure? Yeah... nah....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, JustinL42 said:

She looks really good here.

Agreed, looks to be ripping it up. First B2 to complete a dry manoeuver if I'm not mistaken. Nice nose down trim, with a bit of windward heel at times.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Nauti Buoy said:

I don’t think Burling or Ashby had much to do with the design of the light air boards for the 50. Some overall concepts and general direction maybe, but that’s not what these races come down to, it’s the tiny details. Coutts in prior cups and Spithill in 2017 are different cases as they were running the campaign, like Dalton did for Dean’s losses you blame him for. 

Ashby has been up to his neck in design details for the last three America's Cups. He came up with the foiling multihull concept in AC34. ETNZ's mainsails have his fingerprints all over them. Make no mistake, he is in the room when the big design decisions have been made.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Nauti Buoy said:

I don’t think Burling or Ashby had much to do with the design of the light air boards for the 50. Some overall concepts and general direction maybe, but that’s not what these races come down to, it’s the tiny details. Coutts in prior cups and Spithill in 2017 are different cases as they were running the campaign, like Dalton did for Dean’s losses you blame him for. 

This confirms that I shouldn’t worry too much about what you think. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Ashby has been up to his neck in design details for the last three America's Cups. He came up with the foiling multihull concept in AC34. ETNZ's mainsails have his fingerprints all over them. Make no mistake, he is in the room when the big design decisions have been made.

Glenny would know every inch of TNZs boats he is super clever on all things sailing and innovation, most things he touches turn to gold or very bloody close .   He’s in his third campaign now and even Jimmy would personally acknowledge the benefits he made to his personnel skill and his contribution to Oracle . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I’ve seen pretty much every vid that’s been posted over the past year.  The jibe at about 3:50 is the quickest, cleanest and driest that I think I’ve seen.  I’d think every other team will be doing these routinely but up to now this is the best so far.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NZL3481 said:

Ashby has been up to his neck in design details for the last three America's Cups. He came up with the foiling multihull concept in AC34. ETNZ's mainsails have his fingerprints all over them. Make no mistake, he is in the room when the big design decisions have been made.

 

53 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

This confirms that I shouldn’t worry too much about what you think. 

 

41 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Glenny would know every inch of TNZs boats he is super clever on all things sailing and innovation, most things he touches turn to gold or very bloody close .   He’s in his third campaign now and even Jimmy would personally acknowledge the benefits he made to his personnel skill and his contribution to Oracle . 

So he has just as much of the blame for loses as Dean... This whole thing started with people claiming Dean's sailing ability is the reason why his teams lose and will be why AM loses, which is absurd. This cup was already won and lost in the design (as TH says), not with the sailors on board. AC35 was clearly won by the boat, and while I'm sure Glenn understands the boat, its the designers who develop nuances of the foils that make them fast, and it was Luna Rossa who developed the autopilot which ETNZ then developed into follow the ball. So thank them for your cup.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites