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Excellent: 

 

In 1983 the yacht beat the equally unimaginatively-named American favourite Liberty to take home first place and the Cup, which is rarely used as it is too large to fit in a standard dishwasher. 

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1 hour ago, Teaky said:

I assume Magic are the rightful current holders of the Americas Cup anyway, given Trump is yet to concede the ‘83 contest.

There are 59 days until Trump is in your rear view mirror.  Who you going to blame then for all the world's ills.  Better start planning now because the world's ills are not going away.

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1 minute ago, pluscount said:
There are 59 days until Trump is in your rear view mirror.  Who you going to blame then for all the world's ills.  Better start planning now because the world's ills are not going away.

Perhaps one of them will, but even that's looking doubtful.

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Technically the president is an Ex-Officio member of the New York Yacht Club, which is fun because the membership spent 30 years blackballing him all for him to get in on a technicality. 

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13 hours ago, Teaky said:

I assume Magic are the rightful current holders of the Americas Cup anyway, given Trump is yet to concede the ‘83 contest.

No, no. Britain are the rightful holders because the Kiwi head of state is still our Queen. 

Whereas in the US for the last 4 years half the population wished the Queen was their head of state

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11 hours ago, pluscount said:
There are 59 days until Trump is in your rear view mirror.  Who you going to blame then for all the world's ills.  Better start planning now because the world's ills are not going away.

No, and it will takes years to fix what he has destroyed.  He doesn’t get any more blame than he justly deserves.  Just look at his childish and self serving response to the election.  Any child would be punished for his actions, not encouraged.  Look at how he is trying to sabotage our country as he exists.  

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2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

No, and it will takes years to fix what he has destroyed.  He doesn’t get any more blame than he justly deserves.  Just look at his childish and self serving response to the election.  Any child would be punished for his actions, not encouraged.  Look at how he is trying to sabotage our country as he exists.  

Agreed. He has laid waste to everything in his path. He's the most disgusting, repulsive and embarrassing figure to ever be president. What his victory in 2016 said about the ignorance and stupidity of our population is also a global embarrassment. Half of our population is completely detached from reality.

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50 minutes ago, JustinL42 said:

Agreed. He has laid waste to everything in his path. He's the most disgusting, repulsive and embarrassing figure to ever be president. What his victory in 2016 said about the ignorance and stupidity of our population is also a global embarrassment. Half of our population is completely detached from reality.

They're all stoned on opioids...

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2 hours ago, JustinL42 said:

What his victory in 2016 said about the ignorance and stupidity of our population is also a global embarrassment. Half of our population is completely detached from reality.

The scary thing is that so many Republicans holding office remain beholden to (are scared of pissing off) Trump’s base. The vast majority are biting their tongues even as he tries to overturn the election! Crazy times just got even crazier.. It’ll be in the rear view mirror, will hopefully disappear off into the wake over time. 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

The scary thing is that so many Republicans holding office remain beholden to (are scared of pissing off) Trump’s base. The vast majority are biting their tongues even as he tries to overturn the election! Crazy times just got even crazier.. It’ll be in the rear view mirror, will hopefully disappear off into the wake over time. 

It shows their true character.  

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21 hours ago, Teaky said:

Excellent: 

 

In 1983 the yacht beat the equally unimaginatively-named American favourite Liberty to take home first place and the Cup, which is rarely used as it is too large to fit in a standard dishwasher. 

I don't buy this argument, Bondy would have had easy access to commercial sized washers.

I think its like when the wife hides a relatives really ugly gift at the back of a cupboard..............until they come to visit.

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16 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

No, and it will takes years to fix what he has destroyed.  He doesn’t get any more blame than he justly deserves.  Just look at his childish and self serving response to the election.  Any child would be punished for his actions, not encouraged.  Look at how he is trying to sabotage our country as he exists.  

nothing to do with the ac..but my many american mates say the root of the problem was to combine two countries into one. should have had one racist, hillbilly, mega-capilist, i could go on...and another country of progressive folk that were closer in world view to the rest of the developed world. after all, just look at the popular voting split.

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Here is a picture of a J sailing off of Newport (you know, to get this thread off of political garbage). Ahhh Newport...where hopefully the AC will be contested following this cycle. 

:)

 

pic_3-1000x750.jpg

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would not be to good in the roaring 40s like Cutty Sark? good for drinking champers from?

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On 11/25/2020 at 9:58 AM, SloopJohnB said:

Now that's what you call a yacht!!!!

Overhangs are so last century.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Overhangs are so last century.

Design / engineering (hull / fuselage) ~ I think she is the best aero geometry / volume distribution ~ all “lines” are fluid unlike Ineos and NZ2.

 

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5 hours ago, Southern Cross said:

Design / engineering (hull / fuselage) ~ I think she is the best aero geometry / volume distribution ~ all “lines” are fluid unlike Ineos and NZ2.

 

The contrast is interesting.  Torturing a hull line is usually a way to make a rating rule “think” the boat is slower.  In this case it is essentially a box rule so tortured hull lines are based on what the simulators spits out.  Brit Chance went down that road once too.

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19 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Sit down Dean.

When your competition is too far in front sometimes you just have to stand up or they disappear below the horizon.

Not saying that's what's happening of course;)

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8 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Overhangs are so last century.

True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well.

9DEF1437-9FB2-4823-9C58-BD93676E12F2.jpeg.0ae4ff07697dbfc56053118a58681ca9.jpeg

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17 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Britannia certainly doesn't seem "well off the pace" in this little clip

Isn’t that more than 30 seconds of coordination...

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2 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Isn’t that more than 30 seconds of coordination...

They are more than 100m apart which was the other criteria suggested (though neither were accepted as definitive). If you deem that any boats sailing in the same point of sail for more than 30s are coordinated then madness lies. For one thing there are only 4 points of sail of interest with these boats, and there are 4 boats. So ironically the only way to avoid that situation would be to coordinate your turns in some way

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4 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

They are more than 100m apart which was the other criteria suggested (though neither were accepted as definitive). If you deem that any boats sailing in the same point of sail for more than 30s are coordinated then madness lies. For one thing there are only 4 points of sail of interest with these boats, and there are 4 boats. So ironically the only way to avoid that situation would be to coordinate your turns in some way

Utter nonsense

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4 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Utter nonsense

Really? lets look at that

1) How many boats are there in the regatta - 4. GB, US, LR, NZ

2) How many points of sail are of interest - upwind stbd; upwind port , downwind stbd, downwind port. There is no reaching

3) Are they more than 100m apart when they are on the same point of sail? Yes. That is about  boat lengths

So if 100m is not a factor then given that waters are restricted the suggestion is that if 2 boats are heading on the same point of sail for more than 30s then it would be "coordinated". That suggestion is the utter nonsense because it would mean that if all  4 boats are out and on different points of sail and one turns, one of the others would have to turn within 30s. Thus taking non-premeditated cues from each other which NZ argued was coordination

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28 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well.

9DEF1437-9FB2-4823-9C58-BD93676E12F2.jpeg.0ae4ff07697dbfc56053118a58681ca9.jpeg

Needs more yellow lines, application denied.

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I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but.....  Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker.  Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward.  Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda - a set scan circuit looking outside the boat then instruments - left to right (made that up) - adjust - repeat.  No doubt the instrument scan is in a particular order.  Reminds me of my pilot training - scan outside - left to right - scan instruments - left to right - rinse repeat.

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17 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Really? lets look at that

1) How many boats are there in the regatta - 4. GB, US, LR, NZ

2) How many points of sail are of interest - upwind stbd; upwind port , downwind stbd, downwind port. There is no reaching

3) Are they more than 100m apart when they are on the same point of sail? Yes. That is about  boat lengths

So if 100m is not a factor then given that waters are restricted the suggestion is that if 2 boats are heading on the same point of sail for more than 30s then it would be "coordinated". That suggestion is the utter nonsense because it would mean that if all  4 boats are out and on different points of sail and one turns, one of the others would have to turn within 30s. Thus taking non-premeditated cues from each other which NZ argued was coordination

It's a big ocean a4enigmatically

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Just now, rh3000 said:

It's a big ocean

And they will all want the water where the race courses are for that wind. That's not coordination. But in any case you have chosen to ignore the 100m that was suggested WITH the 30s interval. If not 100m then how much separation do they need? 1000m? 10km?

They are not within 100m so not in the same patch of water

 

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6 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but.....  Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker.  Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward.  Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda - a set scan circuit looking outside the boat then instruments - left to right (made that up) - adjust - repeat.  No doubt the instrument scan is in a particular order.  Reminds me of my pilot training - scan outside - left to right - scan instruments - left to right - rinse repeat.

Are you comparing some still photos to video?

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16 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but.....  Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker.  Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward.  Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda - a set scan circuit looking outside the boat then instruments - left to right (made that up) - adjust - repeat.  No doubt the instrument scan is in a particular order.  Reminds me of my pilot training - scan outside - left to right - scan instruments - left to right - rinse repeat.

Deano has been frozen in that upright pose since San Fransisco.

3BC34162-9C91-4B30-B1E2-D58C704F0196.thumb.jpeg.d688f4d0672e83f791ea4fdfe65bf0aa.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Britannia certainly doesn't seem "well off the pace" in this little clip

indeed.. :lol:

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5 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Deano has been frozen in that upright pose since San Fransisco.

3BC34162-9C91-4B30-B1E2-D58C704F0196.thumb.jpeg.d688f4d0672e83f791ea4fdfe65bf0aa.jpeg

Actually that picture is in stark contrast to where the crews are positioned/housed(?) in this cup.  I would dare to suggest that some crews have moved forward more than others (figuratively and literally).

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Isn’t that more than 30 seconds of coordination...

it would have been if AM had actually got closer..

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14 hours ago, weta27 said:

Coming home this evening

DSC_1880.JPG

DSC_1888.JPG

DSC_1895.JPG

DSC_1905.JPG

DSC_1920.JPG

Nice pictures, you should start watermarking them so you at least get credit for taking them.  

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well.

9DEF1437-9FB2-4823-9C58-BD93676E12F2.jpeg.0ae4ff07697dbfc56053118a58681ca9.jpeg

Why did you doctor the keel?  

Some boats need lipstick and swirls to make their pig look nice.  

Patriot just flows and lets the sailing do the talking.

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And tbe talking is a slow, southern drawl... 8)

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but.....  Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker.  Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward.  Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda - a set scan circuit looking outside the boat then instruments - left to right (made that up) - adjust - repeat.  No doubt the instrument scan is in a particular order.  Reminds me of my pilot training - scan outside - left to right - scan instruments - left to right - rinse repeat.

When scanning. Scan right to left as if left to right your brain thinks its reading and fills in more info. SAS teach this way

 

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2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Both.  There are stark contrasts between Amway and ETNZ in terms of the crew-boat management interface.

No shit Sherlock.  You can not forget that as high tech as people want to think about these boat, they are still sailing!  Being able to match up wind shifts and make the most of what the conditions give you can more than make up the drag of one guy standing in the wind.

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2 minutes ago, gungabow said:

When scanning. Scan right to left as if left to right your brain thinks its reading and fills in more info. SAS teach this way

Interesting - however in a light aircraft, if I remember correctly, the key ones were left so you get to them first and the pilot sits on the left and if there is a co-pilot his blindest spot is to his left.  

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3 hours ago, Priscilla said:

True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well.

9DEF1437-9FB2-4823-9C58-BD93676E12F2.jpeg.0ae4ff07697dbfc56053118a58681ca9.jpeg

Could be the airfoil hull shape and zero pitch here require standing to see over the hump.

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5 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

No shit Sherlock.  You can not forget that as high tech as people want to think about these boat, they are still sailing!  Being able to match up wind shifts and make the most of what the conditions give you can more than make up the drag of one guy standing in the wind.

LOL.  As we know every little advantage adds up. Now your version is an old way of doing things.  Again getting back to planes after a number of serious accidents caused by human error cockpit management was completely overturned and CRM (Cockpit Resource Management) was introduced i.e. cockpit crew all had a responsibility for scanning and were taught to say what they saw.  In terms of sailing you will find that Tuke, Ashby and Burling are all looking for the shifts PLUS regardless of what people will think there is a clear defined wind shift cycle that develops that you can align with the instrument displayed data - those three will be working in sync.  If their work environment is optimised for that outcome then that is a plus. 

In my opinion it looks to me that Barker is in a dated mode where the helmsman called ALL the shots and had a damn sight less data to scan.  Remember the quip from the last Cup?  "Burling looks like he is Driving Miss Daisy".  Remember Jimmy damn near up on the side of the boat scrunched to one side?

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48 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Why did you doctor the keel?  

Bet I am not the only one thinking Amway needs some urgent underbody surgery:P

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Britannia certainly doesn't seem "well off the pace" in this little clip

From what I have seen Britannia is very fast when they are in the grove. Especially downwind

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2 hours ago, barfy said:

Could be the airfoil hull shape and zero pitch here require standing to see over the hump.

Or...  they’re on their way in as Weta said. Probably just going for good visibility since testing is done for the day. 

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5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but.....

It's OK. It really is.

2 hours ago, barfy said:

Could be the airfoil hull shape and zero pitch here require standing to see over the hump.

Well, he's at least not sat his bum over the gunwale.

Good to see, Jimmy has finally got that one right too.

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

Or...  they’re on their way in as Weta said. Probably just going for good visibility since testing is done for the day. 

All time on the water is valuable so it is all in race mode. Well that's what the coachs used to say.

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34 minutes ago, Ncik said:

All time on the water is valuable so it is all in race mode. Well that's what the coachs used to say.

Hmmm ... uther botes on korss iz NOT rayss mode.

Broken AC75 iz off worter.

Tym on worter iz valewibbel.

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3 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Bet I am not the only one thinking Amway needs some urgent underbody surgery:P

I would not be so sure.  The keelson for a displacement boat typically would extend to the stern of the boat.  

In a flying AC75, the keelson is added to help aero flow and to give some end plating with the water.   It has been stated that the typical AWA for these AC75 is about 15 degrees (both up and down wind) when they are up on their foils.  

If you look at 15 degree AWA, you can see that any wind that hits the side of the boat after the mast (where the mainsail is) will never reach the other side of the boat.  So any wind pressure on the sail can only be end plated by the wind that hits the boat before the mast.  So extending the keelson much past the mast should have very little impact on end platting the mainsail.  AM is the only boat to take this into consideration and have designed the stern of the boat for other aero effects.

122321582_ScreenShot2020-11-26at7_20_36PM.thumb.png.f5c09749a65c69f6e3c7de952b19d07a.png

 

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6 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

I would not be so sure.  The keelson for a displacement boat typically would extend to the stern of the boat.  

In a flying AC75, the keelson is added to help aero flow and to give some end plating with the water.   It has been stated that the typical AWA for these AC75 is about 15 degrees (both up and down wind) when they are up on their foils.  

If you look at 15 degree AWA, you can see that any wind that hits the side of the boat after the mast (where the mainsail is) will never reach the other side of the boat.  So any wind pressure on the sail can only be end plated by the wind that hits the boat before the mast.  So extending the keelson much past the mast should have very little impact on end platting the mainsail.  AM is the only boat to take this into consideration and have designed the stern of the boat for other aero effects.

122321582_ScreenShot2020-11-26at7_20_36PM.thumb.png.f5c09749a65c69f6e3c7de952b19d07a.png

 

I'm pretty sure the ETNZ keel also tapers away at the stern, from a maximum depth around where the mast is, down to nothing as it reaches the transom.

Also I note you drew AM boat one there in your diagram.

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54 minutes ago, Boybland said:

I'm pretty sure the ETNZ keel also tapers away at the stern, from a maximum depth around where the mast is, down to nothing as it reaches the transom.

Doesn’t start to taper until aft of the boom end and the rudder sits off the keel as well.
8865AFFF-B528-42AC-81A8-8CB6E7F4800A.png.c27ded52ebee6ab77810d628ab271da7.png0C0C1469-F457-4F7F-9C8A-97D74CE5ED77.jpeg.80c30c32636c4390ed39ac0c512054b2.jpeg
81B3A0BA-7D12-4F34-A921-D8E7A4F11BD6.thumb.jpeg.1cb6ba552b614874984c03f267640abe.jpeg

 

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22 hours ago, Priscilla said:

True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well.

9DEF1437-9FB2-4823-9C58-BD93676E12F2.jpeg.0ae4ff07697dbfc56053118a58681ca9.jpeg

Heh...., gotta wonder if deano hasnt thought about taking a felt pen and adding a few strokes to that sticker on the blue panel

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On 11/25/2020 at 4:01 AM, Vin said:

Here is a picture of a J sailing off of Newport (you know, to get this thread off of political garbage). Ahhh Newport...where hopefully the AC will be contested following this cycle. 

:)

 

pic_3-1000x750.jpg

they generally arrived at the venue on their own bottoms and spent a shitload more time actually on the race course.......... the latter is how it should be and fuck the attention deficient masses

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8 hours ago, Boybland said:

I'm pretty sure the ETNZ keel also tapers away at the stern, from a maximum depth around where the mast is, down to nothing as it reaches the transom.

Also I note you drew AM boat one there in your diagram.

Hey, it was a crude drawing from excel, I was just happy to put a bow on it.:)  

NZ does tapper back down and does have some resemblance to the skinny waist of Patriot.

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8 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

It ignores the fact that hull and keel shapes can affect the air flow up wind and laterally from the shape itself, not just downwind

yes, it was just a simple drawing to show the angle of the apparent wind and how the majority of the wind to make it under the hull, and disrupt the pressures on the sail, hit the boat ahead of the mast.   

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

NZ does tapper back down and does have some resemblance to the skinny waist of Patriot.

Chalk and cheese...
559D222E-0ECC-4064-A797-B48B4F162FCE.jpeg.39223b3a14ade1ce4d23a76fed22574a.jpegF4FAF026-27B4-4214-8FB7-0900971FB66A.jpeg.b87033db93a7da576004d6b3a38a378e.jpeg,

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The only similarity between those yachts is that they both have foils

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On 11/25/2020 at 4:01 AM, Vin said:

Here is a picture of a J sailing off of Newport (you know, to get this thread off of political garbage). Ahhh Newport...where hopefully the AC will be contested following this cycle. 

:)

 

pic_3-1000x750.jpg

prestarts that are worth remembering

BBGgKpM.jpg

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On 11/26/2020 at 11:44 AM, Stingray~ said:

Nice video by GMR

 

Wow the segment around 1:40 gives you and idea just how blazing fast these boats are traveling. Look at the background flying by. Holy CRAP

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Not that blazingly fast considering Tony S helming the Rocket Ross 930 Fast Company is comfortably ahead to windward...

 

83357288-9E73-4E26-8464-E1BE3957577B.thumb.jpeg.6f5ce99f0b25820e88d56cdafec16efd.jpeg

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Not that blazingly fast considering Tony S helming the Rocket Ross 930 Fast Company is comfortably ahead to windward...

 

83357288-9E73-4E26-8464-E1BE3957577B.thumb.jpeg.6f5ce99f0b25820e88d56cdafec16efd.jpeg

 

 

 

I can see all the boats being in the shed for a couple of days to get closer to that hull design... 

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3 minutes ago, Nutta said:

I can see all the boats being in the shed for a couple of days to get closer to that hull design... 

It's always a nice sight seeing a Ross 930 with its rig intact...

 

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1491027801_AMPat4Nov26.thumb.jpg.130a1c2a40bb18961953b85c8a98cb52.jpg

374331919_ScreenShot2020-11-27at7_13_07PM.thumb.png.2f4ee9158f2f945a95c1cba54d7a9b08.png857326498_UKb2sideview.thumb.jpg.7a3b0bf268e32dd82f4d041fd93f6d67.jpg

which one doesn't look like the others?  Patriot is the only one with the keelson tapering off so dramatically just behind the mast.  It was a very conscious design decision and was made in the overall aero flow of the hull.

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3 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

1491027801_AMPat4Nov26.thumb.jpg.130a1c2a40bb18961953b85c8a98cb52.jpg

374331919_ScreenShot2020-11-27at7_13_07PM.thumb.png.2f4ee9158f2f945a95c1cba54d7a9b08.png857326498_UKb2sideview.thumb.jpg.7a3b0bf268e32dd82f4d041fd93f6d67.jpg

which one doesn't look like the others?  Patriot is the only one with the keelson tapering off so dramatically just behind the mast.  It was a very conscious design decision and was made in the overall aero flow of the hull.

Yes all aspects of their yacht are quite conservative 

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20 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

which one doesn't look like the others?  Patriot is the only one with the keelson tapering off so dramatically just behind the mast.  It was a very conscious design decision and was made in the overall aero flow of the hull.

Would be very interesting to hear the designers' reasons for their hull decisions.

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39 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Would be very interesting to hear the designers' reasons for their hull decisions.

Are any hull mods allowed under the rules at this point? A certain percentage of the volume can be changed? Or is this the final final. 

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4 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

Are any hull mods allowed under the rules at this point? A certain percentage of the volume can be changed? Or is this the final final. 

25% by surface area.

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46 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Would be very interesting to hear the designers' reasons for their hull decisions.

It is about guesses over where to make compromises between hydro and aero. LR and AM look the sweetest aero-wise but they are gambling s bit.. 

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Around page 94/5 I made a comment about design convergence and how it is accelerating, for example vs 1992 vs 95 IACC design and how quickly long and heavy, narrow, max sail, obsoleted boat shapes like NZL 20 ( my favorite IACC) and design was all driven into one corner in just two cycles.  I am not surprised how quickly GBR(s)and NZL and to extent ITA all arrived at the full length keel and shape given the rule. I also said 2 weeks before launch that Patriot would look very different based on what I a had seen/heard, I did not expect this different (conservative / middle of the road) but it will be interesting to see when they line up for real.

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11 minutes ago, XPRO said:

Around page 94/5 I made a comment about design convergence and how it is accelerating, for example vs 1992 vs 95 IACC design and how quickly long and heavy max sail obsoleted boats like NZL 20 ( my favorite IACC) and design was all driven into one corner.  I am not surprised how quickly GBR(s)and NZL and to extent ITA all arrived at the full length keel. I also said 2 weeks before launch that Patriot would look very different based on what I a had seen, I did not expect this different of a corner.

Britt Ward noted on TE’s show this week that the GBR skeelson  does not extend back as far as on some other hulls, there’s a significant gap between it and the rudder. He suggested it may be for weight-saving. 

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Britt Ward noted on TE’s show this week that the GBR skeelson  does not extend back as far as on some other hulls, there’s a significant gap between it and the rudder. He suggested it may be for weight-saving. 

Still 95% percent of length, so let's quibble on the word "full" vs my point. 

BTW, I am sure we have met, were you in Anacortes they day they stepped the rig the first time in Dogzilla?  

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On 11/27/2020 at 7:17 AM, Kate short for Bob said:

I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but.....  Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker.  Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward.  Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda

Yes, very different helm style. IMHO Barker has the edge in stronger conditions. Perhaps his only edge over PB.

He sailed brilliantly in the "abandoned-due-to-high-winds" day in SF/AC34. He owned that first race while it lasted and just one of the things that lost ETNZ the cup.

Remember the crazy day of the pitch-pole in Bermuda? Most of the teams where coming apart at the seams ... Artemis ripping off and discarding bits of loose fairing, Ben saying it was the single most extreme day of sailing in his life. Barker smashed it round the course and came off looking exhilarated!

If the wind gets into the upper limits this time, keep an eye on Deano.

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18 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It is about guesses over where to make compromises between hydro and aero. LR and AM look the sweetest aero-wise but they are gambling s bit.. 

I see a lot that I like about the NZ hull, which makes me mildly embarrassed about my initial reaction the GB B1. Not that it's all necessarily limited to ETNZ, but overall:

  • Bustle: Liked this from B1, saw a pc screen on the recent "design/construction" video where a designer was looking at the bustle's wetted area. Virtually enough volume to support the boat, whilst maintaining a narrow drag reducing canoe shape.
  • Forward Flare: Should help provide a quick recovery if they have a nasty bow-down plunge.
  • Flat Aft: Like performance power boats, helps keep the boat flat when accelerating in displacement mode to get over the bow wave, which the forward flare also helps with it's minimal lower volume.
  • Maximum Mid Waterlines: Hard angles there to max out the waterline width for better RM.
  • Crew Pods: As narrow as they could get away with, tucking away the crew, and nicely streamlined aft for good aero.
  • Clean Aero Deck: With the narrow crew pods, very little to create turbulence and extra drag, nice trailing edges for vortex reduction. Well rounded forward gunwales to encourage laminar airflow toward the sail/deck interface.

Not quite so convinced about the frequent under-hull "end plating" comments. Except in flat water the boats maintain more distance from the water surface anyway, to avoid "wavelets", and I see hard edges on some others that could increase turbulence. Plus at the air/water interface the air is barely moving. I'll accept it when I've seen CFD airflows demonstrating a positive effect.

Despite the offer of my left testicle, ETNZ rejected my request to observe their CFD designers at work etc, so this remains speculation.

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48 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Britt Ward noted on TE’s show this week that the GBR skeelson  does not extend back as far as on some other hulls, there’s a significant gap between it and the rudder. He suggested it may be for weight-saving. 

My understanding is that it's done to avoid turbulence from the skeg/keel affecting the rudder.

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6 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Not that blazingly fast considering Tony S helming the Rocket Ross 930 Fast Company is comfortably ahead to windward...

 

83357288-9E73-4E26-8464-E1BE3957577B.thumb.jpeg.6f5ce99f0b25820e88d56cdafec16efd.jpeg

 

 

 

She looks sweetly set up to.

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17 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

1491027801_AMPat4Nov26.thumb.jpg.130a1c2a40bb18961953b85c8a98cb52.jpg

374331919_ScreenShot2020-11-27at7_13_07PM.thumb.png.2f4ee9158f2f945a95c1cba54d7a9b08.png857326498_UKb2sideview.thumb.jpg.7a3b0bf268e32dd82f4d041fd93f6d67.jpg

which one doesn't look like the others?  Patriot is the only one with the keelson tapering off so dramatically just behind the mast.  It was a very conscious design decision and was made in the overall aero flow of the hull.

Love the minimalist look of the US boat, but surprised European Airbus are the partners rather than Boeing.

Also hate the look of the short stubby jibs, the way the gap between leech and mast opens up, but I guess it’s unavoidable?

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15 minutes ago, sosoomii said:

Love the minimalist look of the US boat, but surprised European Airbus are the partners rather than Boeing.

Also hate the look of the short stubby jibs, the way the gap between leech and mast opens up, but I guess it’s unavoidable?

Boeing doesn't have the best reputation for flight control right now - could have been a catastrophic partnership.

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