Teaky 140 #10501 Posted November 23, 2020 Excellent: In 1983 the yacht beat the equally unimaginatively-named American favourite Liberty to take home first place and the Cup, which is rarely used as it is too large to fit in a standard dishwasher. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pluscount 7 #10502 Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Teaky said: I assume Magic are the rightful current holders of the Americas Cup anyway, given Trump is yet to concede the ‘83 contest. There are 59 days until Trump is in your rear view mirror. Who you going to blame then for all the world's ills. Better start planning now because the world's ills are not going away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teaky 140 #10503 Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, pluscount said: There are 59 days until Trump is in your rear view mirror. Who you going to blame then for all the world's ills. Better start planning now because the world's ills are not going away. Perhaps one of them will, but even that's looking doubtful. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackolantern 442 #10504 Posted November 23, 2020 Technically the president is an Ex-Officio member of the New York Yacht Club, which is fun because the membership spent 30 years blackballing him all for him to get in on a technicality. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigmatically2 471 #10505 Posted November 23, 2020 13 hours ago, Teaky said: I assume Magic are the rightful current holders of the Americas Cup anyway, given Trump is yet to concede the ‘83 contest. No, no. Britain are the rightful holders because the Kiwi head of state is still our Queen. Whereas in the US for the last 4 years half the population wished the Queen was their head of state 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10506 Posted November 23, 2020 11 hours ago, pluscount said: There are 59 days until Trump is in your rear view mirror. Who you going to blame then for all the world's ills. Better start planning now because the world's ills are not going away. No, and it will takes years to fix what he has destroyed. He doesn’t get any more blame than he justly deserves. Just look at his childish and self serving response to the election. Any child would be punished for his actions, not encouraged. Look at how he is trying to sabotage our country as he exists. 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustinL42 157 #10507 Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, The_Alchemist said: No, and it will takes years to fix what he has destroyed. He doesn’t get any more blame than he justly deserves. Just look at his childish and self serving response to the election. Any child would be punished for his actions, not encouraged. Look at how he is trying to sabotage our country as he exists. Agreed. He has laid waste to everything in his path. He's the most disgusting, repulsive and embarrassing figure to ever be president. What his victory in 2016 said about the ignorance and stupidity of our population is also a global embarrassment. Half of our population is completely detached from reality. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZL3481 370 #10508 Posted November 23, 2020 50 minutes ago, JustinL42 said: Agreed. He has laid waste to everything in his path. He's the most disgusting, repulsive and embarrassing figure to ever be president. What his victory in 2016 said about the ignorance and stupidity of our population is also a global embarrassment. Half of our population is completely detached from reality. They're all stoned on opioids... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horn Rock 1,196 #10509 Posted November 23, 2020 36 minutes ago, NZL3481 said: They're all stoned on opioids... Oxycotin - aka Hillbilly heroine. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 1,223 #10510 Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, JustinL42 said: What his victory in 2016 said about the ignorance and stupidity of our population is also a global embarrassment. Half of our population is completely detached from reality. The scary thing is that so many Republicans holding office remain beholden to (are scared of pissing off) Trump’s base. The vast majority are biting their tongues even as he tries to overturn the election! Crazy times just got even crazier.. It’ll be in the rear view mirror, will hopefully disappear off into the wake over time. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10511 Posted November 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Stingray~ said: The scary thing is that so many Republicans holding office remain beholden to (are scared of pissing off) Trump’s base. The vast majority are biting their tongues even as he tries to overturn the election! Crazy times just got even crazier.. It’ll be in the rear view mirror, will hopefully disappear off into the wake over time. It shows their true character. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10512 Posted November 24, 2020 Has Patriot been out sailing since Friday? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btime 5 #10513 Posted November 24, 2020 yep north coast of Waiheke Island today 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wandering Geo 45 #10514 Posted November 24, 2020 21 hours ago, Teaky said: Excellent: In 1983 the yacht beat the equally unimaginatively-named American favourite Liberty to take home first place and the Cup, which is rarely used as it is too large to fit in a standard dishwasher. I don't buy this argument, Bondy would have had easy access to commercial sized washers. I think its like when the wife hides a relatives really ugly gift at the back of a cupboard..............until they come to visit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barfy 1,053 #10515 Posted November 24, 2020 16 hours ago, The_Alchemist said: No, and it will takes years to fix what he has destroyed. He doesn’t get any more blame than he justly deserves. Just look at his childish and self serving response to the election. Any child would be punished for his actions, not encouraged. Look at how he is trying to sabotage our country as he exists. nothing to do with the ac..but my many american mates say the root of the problem was to combine two countries into one. should have had one racist, hillbilly, mega-capilist, i could go on...and another country of progressive folk that were closer in world view to the rest of the developed world. after all, just look at the popular voting split. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vin 76 #10516 Posted November 24, 2020 Here is a picture of a J sailing off of Newport (you know, to get this thread off of political garbage). Ahhh Newport...where hopefully the AC will be contested following this cycle. 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 236 #10517 Posted November 24, 2020 Now that's what you call a yacht!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwing 280 #10518 Posted November 24, 2020 would not be to good in the roaring 40s like Cutty Sark? good for drinking champers from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,090 #10519 Posted November 24, 2020 57 minutes ago, SloopJohnB said: Now that's what you call a yacht!!!! It's called progress. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.......................... 167 #10520 Posted November 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Priscilla said: It's called progress. Two of those thing have won races/championships and two have not, progress or not. (little Ferrari humor) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weta27 3,955 #10521 Posted November 26, 2020 Coming home this evening 19 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 2,394 #10522 Posted November 26, 2020 On 11/25/2020 at 9:58 AM, SloopJohnB said: Now that's what you call a yacht!!!! Overhangs are so last century. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern Cross 44 #10523 Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Sailbydate said: Overhangs are so last century. Design / engineering (hull / fuselage) ~ I think she is the best aero geometry / volume distribution ~ all “lines” are fluid unlike Ineos and NZ2. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sailman 93 #10524 Posted November 26, 2020 5 hours ago, Southern Cross said: Design / engineering (hull / fuselage) ~ I think she is the best aero geometry / volume distribution ~ all “lines” are fluid unlike Ineos and NZ2. The contrast is interesting. Torturing a hull line is usually a way to make a rating rule “think” the boat is slower. In this case it is essentially a box rule so tortured hull lines are based on what the simulators spits out. Brit Chance went down that road once too. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ex-yachtie 1,465 #10525 Posted November 26, 2020 11 hours ago, weta27 said: Sit down Dean. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Woolfy 267 #10526 Posted November 26, 2020 19 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said: Sit down Dean. When your competition is too far in front sometimes you just have to stand up or they disappear below the horizon. Not saying that's what's happening of course Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Forourselves 996 #10527 Posted November 26, 2020 Britannia certainly doesn't seem "well off the pace" in this little clip Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,090 #10528 Posted November 26, 2020 8 hours ago, Sailbydate said: Overhangs are so last century. True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,090 #10529 Posted November 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, Forourselves said: Britannia certainly doesn't seem "well off the pace" in this little clip Isn’t that more than 30 seconds of coordination... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigmatically2 471 #10530 Posted November 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Priscilla said: Isn’t that more than 30 seconds of coordination... They are more than 100m apart which was the other criteria suggested (though neither were accepted as definitive). If you deem that any boats sailing in the same point of sail for more than 30s are coordinated then madness lies. For one thing there are only 4 points of sail of interest with these boats, and there are 4 boats. So ironically the only way to avoid that situation would be to coordinate your turns in some way 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,479 #10531 Posted November 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said: They are more than 100m apart which was the other criteria suggested (though neither were accepted as definitive). If you deem that any boats sailing in the same point of sail for more than 30s are coordinated then madness lies. For one thing there are only 4 points of sail of interest with these boats, and there are 4 boats. So ironically the only way to avoid that situation would be to coordinate your turns in some way Utter nonsense Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kate short for Bob 227 #10532 Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said: Sit down Dean. Interesting how their crew setup is a more traditional approach than what we see now with ETNZ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigmatically2 471 #10533 Posted November 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, rh3000 said: Utter nonsense Really? lets look at that 1) How many boats are there in the regatta - 4. GB, US, LR, NZ 2) How many points of sail are of interest - upwind stbd; upwind port , downwind stbd, downwind port. There is no reaching 3) Are they more than 100m apart when they are on the same point of sail? Yes. That is about boat lengths So if 100m is not a factor then given that waters are restricted the suggestion is that if 2 boats are heading on the same point of sail for more than 30s then it would be "coordinated". That suggestion is the utter nonsense because it would mean that if all 4 boats are out and on different points of sail and one turns, one of the others would have to turn within 30s. Thus taking non-premeditated cues from each other which NZ argued was coordination Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windskip 15 #10534 Posted November 26, 2020 28 minutes ago, Priscilla said: True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well. Needs more yellow lines, application denied. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kate short for Bob 227 #10535 Posted November 26, 2020 I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but..... Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker. Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward. Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda - a set scan circuit looking outside the boat then instruments - left to right (made that up) - adjust - repeat. No doubt the instrument scan is in a particular order. Reminds me of my pilot training - scan outside - left to right - scan instruments - left to right - rinse repeat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rh3000 1,479 #10536 Posted November 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said: Really? lets look at that 1) How many boats are there in the regatta - 4. GB, US, LR, NZ 2) How many points of sail are of interest - upwind stbd; upwind port , downwind stbd, downwind port. There is no reaching 3) Are they more than 100m apart when they are on the same point of sail? Yes. That is about boat lengths So if 100m is not a factor then given that waters are restricted the suggestion is that if 2 boats are heading on the same point of sail for more than 30s then it would be "coordinated". That suggestion is the utter nonsense because it would mean that if all 4 boats are out and on different points of sail and one turns, one of the others would have to turn within 30s. Thus taking non-premeditated cues from each other which NZ argued was coordination It's a big ocean a4enigmatically Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigmatically2 471 #10537 Posted November 26, 2020 Just now, rh3000 said: It's a big ocean And they will all want the water where the race courses are for that wind. That's not coordination. But in any case you have chosen to ignore the 100m that was suggested WITH the 30s interval. If not 100m then how much separation do they need? 1000m? 10km? They are not within 100m so not in the same patch of water Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ex-yachtie 1,465 #10538 Posted November 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said: I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but..... Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker. Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward. Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda - a set scan circuit looking outside the boat then instruments - left to right (made that up) - adjust - repeat. No doubt the instrument scan is in a particular order. Reminds me of my pilot training - scan outside - left to right - scan instruments - left to right - rinse repeat. Are you comparing some still photos to video? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kate short for Bob 227 #10539 Posted November 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said: Are you comparing some still photos to video? Both. There are stark contrasts between Amway and ETNZ in terms of the crew-boat management interface. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,090 #10540 Posted November 26, 2020 16 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said: I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but..... Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker. Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward. Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda - a set scan circuit looking outside the boat then instruments - left to right (made that up) - adjust - repeat. No doubt the instrument scan is in a particular order. Reminds me of my pilot training - scan outside - left to right - scan instruments - left to right - rinse repeat. Deano has been frozen in that upright pose since San Fransisco. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JALhazmat 931 #10541 Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Forourselves said: Britannia certainly doesn't seem "well off the pace" in this little clip indeed.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kate short for Bob 227 #10542 Posted November 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Priscilla said: Deano has been frozen in that upright pose since San Fransisco. Actually that picture is in stark contrast to where the crews are positioned/housed(?) in this cup. I would dare to suggest that some crews have moved forward more than others (figuratively and literally). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JALhazmat 931 #10543 Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Priscilla said: Isn’t that more than 30 seconds of coordination... it would have been if AM had actually got closer.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 1,223 #10544 Posted November 26, 2020 Nice video by GMR 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10545 Posted November 26, 2020 14 hours ago, weta27 said: Coming home this evening Nice pictures, you should start watermarking them so you at least get credit for taking them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10546 Posted November 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Priscilla said: True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well. Why did you doctor the keel? Some boats need lipstick and swirls to make their pig look nice. Patriot just flows and lets the sailing do the talking. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nutta 206 #10547 Posted November 26, 2020 And tbe talking is a slow, southern drawl... 8) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gungabow 49 #10548 Posted November 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said: I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but..... Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker. Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward. Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda - a set scan circuit looking outside the boat then instruments - left to right (made that up) - adjust - repeat. No doubt the instrument scan is in a particular order. Reminds me of my pilot training - scan outside - left to right - scan instruments - left to right - rinse repeat. When scanning. Scan right to left as if left to right your brain thinks its reading and fills in more info. SAS teach this way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10549 Posted November 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said: Both. There are stark contrasts between Amway and ETNZ in terms of the crew-boat management interface. No shit Sherlock. You can not forget that as high tech as people want to think about these boat, they are still sailing! Being able to match up wind shifts and make the most of what the conditions give you can more than make up the drag of one guy standing in the wind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kate short for Bob 227 #10550 Posted November 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, gungabow said: When scanning. Scan right to left as if left to right your brain thinks its reading and fills in more info. SAS teach this way Interesting - however in a light aircraft, if I remember correctly, the key ones were left so you get to them first and the pilot sits on the left and if there is a co-pilot his blindest spot is to his left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barfy 1,053 #10551 Posted November 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Priscilla said: True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well. Could be the airfoil hull shape and zero pitch here require standing to see over the hump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kate short for Bob 227 #10552 Posted November 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said: No shit Sherlock. You can not forget that as high tech as people want to think about these boat, they are still sailing! Being able to match up wind shifts and make the most of what the conditions give you can more than make up the drag of one guy standing in the wind. LOL. As we know every little advantage adds up. Now your version is an old way of doing things. Again getting back to planes after a number of serious accidents caused by human error cockpit management was completely overturned and CRM (Cockpit Resource Management) was introduced i.e. cockpit crew all had a responsibility for scanning and were taught to say what they saw. In terms of sailing you will find that Tuke, Ashby and Burling are all looking for the shifts PLUS regardless of what people will think there is a clear defined wind shift cycle that develops that you can align with the instrument displayed data - those three will be working in sync. If their work environment is optimised for that outcome then that is a plus. In my opinion it looks to me that Barker is in a dated mode where the helmsman called ALL the shots and had a damn sight less data to scan. Remember the quip from the last Cup? "Burling looks like he is Driving Miss Daisy". Remember Jimmy damn near up on the side of the boat scrunched to one side? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,090 #10553 Posted November 26, 2020 48 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said: Why did you doctor the keel? Bet I am not the only one thinking Amway needs some urgent underbody surgery Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uflux 571 #10554 Posted November 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Forourselves said: Britannia certainly doesn't seem "well off the pace" in this little clip From what I have seen Britannia is very fast when they are in the grove. Especially downwind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monkey 1,206 #10555 Posted November 26, 2020 2 hours ago, barfy said: Could be the airfoil hull shape and zero pitch here require standing to see over the hump. Or... they’re on their way in as Weta said. Probably just going for good visibility since testing is done for the day. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 2,394 #10556 Posted November 26, 2020 5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said: I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but..... It's OK. It really is. 2 hours ago, barfy said: Could be the airfoil hull shape and zero pitch here require standing to see over the hump. Well, he's at least not sat his bum over the gunwale. Good to see, Jimmy has finally got that one right too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ncik 143 #10557 Posted November 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Monkey said: Or... they’re on their way in as Weta said. Probably just going for good visibility since testing is done for the day. All time on the water is valuable so it is all in race mode. Well that's what the coachs used to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snaerk 45 #10558 Posted November 27, 2020 34 minutes ago, Ncik said: All time on the water is valuable so it is all in race mode. Well that's what the coachs used to say. Hmmm ... uther botes on korss iz NOT rayss mode. Broken AC75 iz off worter. Tym on worter iz valewibbel. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10559 Posted November 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Priscilla said: Bet I am not the only one thinking Amway needs some urgent underbody surgery I would not be so sure. The keelson for a displacement boat typically would extend to the stern of the boat. In a flying AC75, the keelson is added to help aero flow and to give some end plating with the water. It has been stated that the typical AWA for these AC75 is about 15 degrees (both up and down wind) when they are up on their foils. If you look at 15 degree AWA, you can see that any wind that hits the side of the boat after the mast (where the mainsail is) will never reach the other side of the boat. So any wind pressure on the sail can only be end plated by the wind that hits the boat before the mast. So extending the keelson much past the mast should have very little impact on end platting the mainsail. AM is the only boat to take this into consideration and have designed the stern of the boat for other aero effects. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boybland 515 #10560 Posted November 27, 2020 6 hours ago, The_Alchemist said: I would not be so sure. The keelson for a displacement boat typically would extend to the stern of the boat. In a flying AC75, the keelson is added to help aero flow and to give some end plating with the water. It has been stated that the typical AWA for these AC75 is about 15 degrees (both up and down wind) when they are up on their foils. If you look at 15 degree AWA, you can see that any wind that hits the side of the boat after the mast (where the mainsail is) will never reach the other side of the boat. So any wind pressure on the sail can only be end plated by the wind that hits the boat before the mast. So extending the keelson much past the mast should have very little impact on end platting the mainsail. AM is the only boat to take this into consideration and have designed the stern of the boat for other aero effects. I'm pretty sure the ETNZ keel also tapers away at the stern, from a maximum depth around where the mast is, down to nothing as it reaches the transom. Also I note you drew AM boat one there in your diagram. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enigmatically2 471 #10561 Posted November 27, 2020 It ignores the fact that hull and keel shapes can affect the air flow up wind and laterally from the shape itself, not just downwind 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,090 #10562 Posted November 27, 2020 54 minutes ago, Boybland said: I'm pretty sure the ETNZ keel also tapers away at the stern, from a maximum depth around where the mast is, down to nothing as it reaches the transom. Doesn’t start to taper until aft of the boom end and the rudder sits off the keel as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
167149 95 #10563 Posted November 27, 2020 22 hours ago, Priscilla said: True and that dowdy main livery could well do with a zhoosh as well. Heh...., gotta wonder if deano hasnt thought about taking a felt pen and adding a few strokes to that sticker on the blue panel 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
167149 95 #10564 Posted November 27, 2020 On 11/25/2020 at 4:01 AM, Vin said: Here is a picture of a J sailing off of Newport (you know, to get this thread off of political garbage). Ahhh Newport...where hopefully the AC will be contested following this cycle. they generally arrived at the venue on their own bottoms and spent a shitload more time actually on the race course.......... the latter is how it should be and fuck the attention deficient masses 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10565 Posted November 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Boybland said: I'm pretty sure the ETNZ keel also tapers away at the stern, from a maximum depth around where the mast is, down to nothing as it reaches the transom. Also I note you drew AM boat one there in your diagram. Hey, it was a crude drawing from excel, I was just happy to put a bow on it. NZ does tapper back down and does have some resemblance to the skinny waist of Patriot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10566 Posted November 27, 2020 8 hours ago, enigmatically2 said: It ignores the fact that hull and keel shapes can affect the air flow up wind and laterally from the shape itself, not just downwind yes, it was just a simple drawing to show the angle of the apparent wind and how the majority of the wind to make it under the hull, and disrupt the pressures on the sail, hit the boat ahead of the mast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,090 #10567 Posted November 27, 2020 1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said: NZ does tapper back down and does have some resemblance to the skinny waist of Patriot. Chalk and cheese... , 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uflux 571 #10568 Posted November 27, 2020 The only similarity between those yachts is that they both have foils 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
167149 95 #10569 Posted November 27, 2020 On 11/25/2020 at 4:01 AM, Vin said: Here is a picture of a J sailing off of Newport (you know, to get this thread off of political garbage). Ahhh Newport...where hopefully the AC will be contested following this cycle. prestarts that are worth remembering Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zillafreak 67 #10570 Posted November 27, 2020 On 11/26/2020 at 11:44 AM, Stingray~ said: Nice video by GMR Wow the segment around 1:40 gives you and idea just how blazing fast these boats are traveling. Look at the background flying by. Holy CRAP 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 2,090 #10571 Posted November 27, 2020 Not that blazingly fast considering Tony S helming the Rocket Ross 930 Fast Company is comfortably ahead to windward... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nutta 206 #10572 Posted November 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, Priscilla said: Not that blazingly fast considering Tony S helming the Rocket Ross 930 Fast Company is comfortably ahead to windward... I can see all the boats being in the shed for a couple of days to get closer to that hull design... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NZL3481 370 #10573 Posted November 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Nutta said: I can see all the boats being in the shed for a couple of days to get closer to that hull design... It's always a nice sight seeing a Ross 930 with its rig intact... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Alchemist 1,087 #10574 Posted November 28, 2020 which one doesn't look like the others? Patriot is the only one with the keelson tapering off so dramatically just behind the mast. It was a very conscious design decision and was made in the overall aero flow of the hull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uflux 571 #10575 Posted November 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said: which one doesn't look like the others? Patriot is the only one with the keelson tapering off so dramatically just behind the mast. It was a very conscious design decision and was made in the overall aero flow of the hull. Yes all aspects of their yacht are quite conservative Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaxHugen 441 #10576 Posted November 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said: which one doesn't look like the others? Patriot is the only one with the keelson tapering off so dramatically just behind the mast. It was a very conscious design decision and was made in the overall aero flow of the hull. Would be very interesting to hear the designers' reasons for their hull decisions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zillafreak 67 #10577 Posted November 28, 2020 39 minutes ago, MaxHugen said: Would be very interesting to hear the designers' reasons for their hull decisions. Are any hull mods allowed under the rules at this point? A certain percentage of the volume can be changed? Or is this the final final. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 1,223 #10578 Posted November 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, zillafreak said: Are any hull mods allowed under the rules at this point? A certain percentage of the volume can be changed? Or is this the final final. 25% by surface area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 1,223 #10579 Posted November 28, 2020 46 minutes ago, MaxHugen said: Would be very interesting to hear the designers' reasons for their hull decisions. It is about guesses over where to make compromises between hydro and aero. LR and AM look the sweetest aero-wise but they are gambling s bit.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.......................... 167 #10580 Posted November 28, 2020 Around page 94/5 I made a comment about design convergence and how it is accelerating, for example vs 1992 vs 95 IACC design and how quickly long and heavy, narrow, max sail, obsoleted boat shapes like NZL 20 ( my favorite IACC) and design was all driven into one corner in just two cycles. I am not surprised how quickly GBR(s)and NZL and to extent ITA all arrived at the full length keel and shape given the rule. I also said 2 weeks before launch that Patriot would look very different based on what I a had seen/heard, I did not expect this different (conservative / middle of the road) but it will be interesting to see when they line up for real. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stingray~ 1,223 #10581 Posted November 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, XPRO said: Around page 94/5 I made a comment about design convergence and how it is accelerating, for example vs 1992 vs 95 IACC design and how quickly long and heavy max sail obsoleted boats like NZL 20 ( my favorite IACC) and design was all driven into one corner. I am not surprised how quickly GBR(s)and NZL and to extent ITA all arrived at the full length keel. I also said 2 weeks before launch that Patriot would look very different based on what I a had seen, I did not expect this different of a corner. Britt Ward noted on TE’s show this week that the GBR skeelson does not extend back as far as on some other hulls, there’s a significant gap between it and the rudder. He suggested it may be for weight-saving. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.......................... 167 #10582 Posted November 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said: Britt Ward noted on TE’s show this week that the GBR skeelson does not extend back as far as on some other hulls, there’s a significant gap between it and the rudder. He suggested it may be for weight-saving. Still 95% percent of length, so let's quibble on the word "full" vs my point. BTW, I am sure we have met, were you in Anacortes they day they stepped the rig the first time in Dogzilla? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sea Breeze 74 504 #10583 Posted November 28, 2020 On 11/27/2020 at 7:17 AM, Kate short for Bob said: I know I'll probably get bagged for being an ETNZ fanboy but..... Isn't there are considerable difference in driving style between Burling and Barker. Barker as is his style is standing upright, body on a lean and head to one side looking predominantly forward. Burling down in the boat (sitting?) - presumably still doing what he was doing in Bermuda Yes, very different helm style. IMHO Barker has the edge in stronger conditions. Perhaps his only edge over PB. He sailed brilliantly in the "abandoned-due-to-high-winds" day in SF/AC34. He owned that first race while it lasted and just one of the things that lost ETNZ the cup. Remember the crazy day of the pitch-pole in Bermuda? Most of the teams where coming apart at the seams ... Artemis ripping off and discarding bits of loose fairing, Ben saying it was the single most extreme day of sailing in his life. Barker smashed it round the course and came off looking exhilarated! If the wind gets into the upper limits this time, keep an eye on Deano. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaxHugen 441 #10584 Posted November 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, Stingray~ said: It is about guesses over where to make compromises between hydro and aero. LR and AM look the sweetest aero-wise but they are gambling s bit.. I see a lot that I like about the NZ hull, which makes me mildly embarrassed about my initial reaction the GB B1. Not that it's all necessarily limited to ETNZ, but overall: Bustle: Liked this from B1, saw a pc screen on the recent "design/construction" video where a designer was looking at the bustle's wetted area. Virtually enough volume to support the boat, whilst maintaining a narrow drag reducing canoe shape. Forward Flare: Should help provide a quick recovery if they have a nasty bow-down plunge. Flat Aft: Like performance power boats, helps keep the boat flat when accelerating in displacement mode to get over the bow wave, which the forward flare also helps with it's minimal lower volume. Maximum Mid Waterlines: Hard angles there to max out the waterline width for better RM. Crew Pods: As narrow as they could get away with, tucking away the crew, and nicely streamlined aft for good aero. Clean Aero Deck: With the narrow crew pods, very little to create turbulence and extra drag, nice trailing edges for vortex reduction. Well rounded forward gunwales to encourage laminar airflow toward the sail/deck interface. Not quite so convinced about the frequent under-hull "end plating" comments. Except in flat water the boats maintain more distance from the water surface anyway, to avoid "wavelets", and I see hard edges on some others that could increase turbulence. Plus at the air/water interface the air is barely moving. I'll accept it when I've seen CFD airflows demonstrating a positive effect. Despite the offer of my left testicle, ETNZ rejected my request to observe their CFD designers at work etc, so this remains speculation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaxHugen 441 #10585 Posted November 28, 2020 48 minutes ago, Stingray~ said: Britt Ward noted on TE’s show this week that the GBR skeelson does not extend back as far as on some other hulls, there’s a significant gap between it and the rudder. He suggested it may be for weight-saving. My understanding is that it's done to avoid turbulence from the skeg/keel affecting the rudder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 2,394 #10586 Posted November 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Priscilla said: Not that blazingly fast considering Tony S helming the Rocket Ross 930 Fast Company is comfortably ahead to windward... She looks sweetly set up to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sosoomii 427 #10587 Posted November 28, 2020 17 hours ago, The_Alchemist said: which one doesn't look like the others? Patriot is the only one with the keelson tapering off so dramatically just behind the mast. It was a very conscious design decision and was made in the overall aero flow of the hull. Love the minimalist look of the US boat, but surprised European Airbus are the partners rather than Boeing. Also hate the look of the short stubby jibs, the way the gap between leech and mast opens up, but I guess it’s unavoidable? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apterix 85 #10588 Posted November 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, sosoomii said: Love the minimalist look of the US boat, but surprised European Airbus are the partners rather than Boeing. Also hate the look of the short stubby jibs, the way the gap between leech and mast opens up, but I guess it’s unavoidable? Boeing doesn't have the best reputation for flight control right now - could have been a catastrophic partnership. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JALhazmat 931 #10589 Posted November 28, 2020 34 minutes ago, sosoomii said: Love the minimalist look o