Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Panic setting in already. It’s a shame, she’s still the prettiest boat. 

Or just the advantage of getting B2 on the water first and being able to optimise at full scale.

Seems a smart time to introduce more upgrades to me.

Lets see what appears, refinement or complete reworking (panic mode??).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it safe to say panic = 4 x % hull change?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Nutta said:

Is it safe to say panic = 4 x % hull change?

Maybe if it starts to have a 'nice personality' like the UK/NZ boats = panic.

My uneducated guess a bit deeper/longer 'spine' on the bottom (better seal) and new foils (small, flat, no bulb?? They seem to be running around with large portions of the foil out of the water a lot of the time).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wandering Geo said:

Or just the advantage of getting B2 on the water first and being able to optimise at full scale.

Seems a smart time to introduce more upgrades to me.

Lets see what appears, refinement or complete reworking (panic mode??).

You’re right, it’s one of the very few windows where mods are possible, especially if you get knocked out of the Prada Cup. You’ve gotta say though, it hardly demonstrates confidence in your design package if you haven’t even lined up against anyone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Wandering Geo said:

Maybe if it starts to have a 'nice personality' like the UK/NZ boats = panic.

My uneducated guess a bit deeper/longer 'spine' on the bottom (better seal) and new foils (small, flat, no bulb?? They seem to be running around with large portions of the foil out of the water a lot of the time).

Personality is all good, but "fast and easy" beats that every time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Panic setting in already. It’s a shame, she’s still the prettiest boat. 

I live how someone can interpret change as panic. Basic engineering and design principles are that you are never done designing and refining until you can no longer.

Given that, it’s simply a good practice to continue to compare real world data against models and refine the end product.

I doubt the kiwis and everyone else will just leave everything alone with their B2’s between now and the end. If they don’t will you call them panicked or proper? Interesting to see if hypocrisy comes out.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

I live how someone can interpret change as panic. Basic engineering and design principles are that you are never done designing and refining until you can no longer.

Given that, it’s simply a good practice to continue to compare real world data against models and refine the end product.

I doubt the kiwis and everyone else will just leave everything alone with their B2’s between now and the end. If they don’t will you call them panicked or proper? Interesting to see if hypocrisy comes out.

Considering everyone thought 5 weeks off the water meant the Kiwi's had issues in the team, and this would be a setback that would put them way behind the challengers, which turned out to be the same old conspiracy theorists howling at the moon again, I'd say those living in glass houses, calling people hypocrites shouldn't throw stones.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

I live how someone can interpret change as panic. Basic engineering and design principles are that you are never done designing and refining until you can no longer.

Given that, it’s simply a good practice to continue to compare real world data against models and refine the end product.

I doubt the kiwis and everyone else will just leave everything alone with their B2’s between now and the end. If they don’t will you call them panicked or proper? Interesting to see if hypocrisy comes out.

Sticking your boat, which sits in its own corner of the rule, back in the shed having sailed it two dozen times, after all of your competitors boats have been revealed can both be interpreted as basic design principles or a fairly significant rethink.

I guess time will tell. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost certainly going to come out both uglier and faster...

A shame really as she is quite the pretty thing compared to the rest of the field.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Considering everyone thought 5 weeks off the water meant the Kiwi's had issues in the team, and this would be a setback that would put them way behind the challengers, which turned out to be the same old conspiracy theorists howling at the moon again, I'd say those living in glass houses, calling people hypocrites shouldn't throw stones.

Problem with this statement is assuming everyone felt that way. Which is very untrue. A more appropriate statement would be many not everyone.

I don’t make any statements to that and don’t feel that there is anything wrong with what I said. So; I feel fine in my non-glass house. You?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Sticking your boat, which sits in its own corner of the rule, back in the shed having sailed it two dozen times, after all of your competitors boats have been revealed can both be interpreted as basic design principles or a fairly significant rethink.

I guess time will tell. 

Timing and motivation doesn’t change that revisions to design are good practice. Call it what you want to make it sound panicked. But these people are far smarter than you give credit and I’m sure they know exactly what their doing and why.

It’s just a way to grab attention and make baseless claims so that someone could pay attention.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Sticking your boat, which sits in its own corner of the rule, back in the shed having sailed it two dozen times, after all of your competitors boats have been revealed can both be interpreted as basic design principles or a fairly significant rethink.

I guess time will tell. 

Part of me wonders if they knew this coming in... They've had a lot of on the water time compared to others and are well funded (from what I hear).  So did they have the option to move towards a corner to see how it reacted knowing they could make changes and move back towards the middle?  They probably won't miss much not being on the water the next week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, I14RACER said:

I live how someone can interpret change as panic. Basic engineering and design principles are that you are never done designing and refining until you can no longer.

Given that, it’s simply a good practice to continue to compare real world data against models and refine the end product.

I doubt the kiwis and everyone else will just leave everything alone with their B2’s between now and the end. If they don’t will you call them panicked or proper? Interesting to see if hypocrisy comes out.

Exactly, the technology keeps evolving and the engineers always have a better idea and ways to make improvements.  You have to stop the refinements at various stages and run with it.  A CEO of a very well know Fortune 500 company once told our business class that there come a time where you need to shoot the engineer and ship the product.  Any of these teams that are telling us they have pushed the design and optimized it are BSing us.  There are just too many variables to control this early into the design of this class of boat.  Everything has trade offs and each team has assumptions that define their priorities (wind speeds, quick take off, stable maneuvers, high end speed, VMG, etc.).

Every boat still plans to make refinements.  Just because AM is doing now is not related to panic, but more to the fact that they know how to improve performance.  It could be just replacing the foils.  I suspect they will be making some modifications to the mast and the foils.  I would be more worried if they weren’t making refinements!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It must be more than the foils because that is just an overnight job to change foils and sail on another set.

We know that LR was launched and quickly had a mod. Some comments about GB make me think they have had some time off for mods that we either can't see or haven't spotted.

These boats will keep being optimised both in terms of equipment and how they are sailed up until the wire. And that wire is the Prada and/or AC. Not the Christmas regatta

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

I think the comments about Ineos should be taken with a very large slice of expensive Italian loafer..

So do I. Always

But I do have a suspicion GB might have had a day off for  mod or two

And LR did of course, a week after launch, and that was a longer lay-up.

I must admit 5 days does seem slightly less than ideal, but we might get a better idea when they splash again

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Panic setting in already. It’s a shame, she’s still the prettiest boat. 

"For a plane to fly well, it must be beautiful." -- Marcel Dassault

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Flags said:

"For a plane to fly well, it must be beautiful." -- Marcel Dassault

When did the French ever design something beautiful?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Mudz said:

When did the French ever design something beautiful?

The mirage has always been a good looking aircraft 

CEBB70E6-7FAD-4F38-8C40-ED1CB381ABE6.jpeg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VPLP and Guillaume Verdier made a reasonably good job of these, no?

why-choose-southern-spars.jpeg

yysw301709.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Wandering Geo said:

Maybe if it starts to have a 'nice personality' like the UK/NZ boats = panic.

My uneducated guess a bit deeper/longer 'spine' on the bottom (better seal) and new foils (small, flat, no bulb?? They seem to be running around with large portions of the foil out of the water a lot of the time).

My thought as well but not sure where the volume would be subtracted from? Adding sounds easy, subtracting not so much... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

My thought as well but not sure where the volume would be subtracted from? Adding sounds easy, subtracting not so much... 

Maybe they took it out of the sail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

where the volume would be subtracted from?

Increase the rounding off of the sheer line around the bows. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

VPLP and Guillaume Verdier made a reasonably good job of these, no?

why-choose-southern-spars.jpeg

yysw301709.jpg

The prosecution rests...

images (17).jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Nutta said:

The prosecution rests...

images (17).jpeg

Prolly a Citroën. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nutta said:

The prosecution rests...

images (17).jpeg

That's a door you shouldn't open

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Patriot back in the shed under the surgeon's knife for mods? Been quiet here and I haven't seen any new footage for awhile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/1/2020 at 12:50 AM, Sailbydate said:

Prolly a Citroën. ;-)

1952 Dick-Ducati Tricycle

French but italian design... 

Never heard of that brand or seen that "car". 

 

Regards,

D.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JustinL42 said:

Is Patriot back in the shed under the surgeon's knife for mods? Been quiet here and I haven't seen any new footage for awhile.

Yep, supposedly until Sunday.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Windskip said:

Yep, supposedly until Sunday.

Going to be interesting to see if the boom has gone in the bin.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/1/2020 at 2:12 AM, Mudz said:

When did the French ever design something beautiful?

:lol::lol:

Raymond Loewy ..... Air Force One,  Pensylvania Railroad, Studebaker Champion, Shell logo ......... ^_^

Air-Force-One.jpg

Pensylvania railroad-Loewy.jpg

studebaker-champion-regal-1953-10.jpg

shell.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at one of the latest Cup Rialto posts, it looks like NZ is trying to do its best imitation of AM Patriot in very light winds.  Bow down, arse in the air with very little plating to the water after the mast.  This is in very light winds when you would think they need the most power out of the sails. 

image.png.b891a5d2d4a630ed2b837b960b31e929.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Looking at one of the latest Cup Rialto posts, it looks like NZ is trying to do its best imitation of AM Patriot in very light winds.  Bow down, arse in the air with very little plating to the water after the mast.  This is in very light winds when you would think they need the most power out of the sails. 

image.png.b891a5d2d4a630ed2b837b960b31e929.png

Perhaps the end plating is less effective either the further aft you go, or in lighter airs or both?  By the time you get to the back of the boat and are sailing along in "merely" 25kt AWS, perhaps the foils, rig, people and varying shapes (of which this thing has a lot!) have disturbed the air so much it's less effective.  I would say though that 100% of the teams have made the skeggery more pronounced from B1->B2, so perhaps the front matters more?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Looking at one of the latest Cup Rialto posts, it looks like NZ is trying to do its best imitation of AM Patriot in very light winds.  Bow down, arse in the air with very little plating to the water after the mast.  This is in very light winds when you would think they need the most power out of the sails. 

image.png.b891a5d2d4a630ed2b837b960b31e929.png

Got any footage of Amway in light airs flying a Code Zero actually don’t think they own one down range wind coverage is pretty slim maybe a sign not ideal Amway conditions.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Looking at one of the latest Cup Rialto posts, it looks like NZ is trying to do its best imitation of AM Patriot in very light winds.  Bow down, arse in the air with very little plating to the water after the mast.  This is in very light winds when you would think they need the most power out of the sails. 

image.png.b891a5d2d4a630ed2b837b960b31e929.png

Their apparent wind's not coming from behind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RMac said:

Perhaps the end plating is less effective either the further aft you go, or in lighter airs or both?  By the time you get to the back of the boat and are sailing along in "merely" 25kt AWS, perhaps the foils, rig, people and varying shapes (of which this thing has a lot!) have disturbed the air so much it's less effective.  I would say though that 100% of the teams have made the skeggery more pronounced from B1->B2, so perhaps the front matters more?

That is exactly what I was getting at when people were speculating that Patriot would add and extend the keelson to the stern. Post # 10577.

The interesting thing is to see NZ looking like Patriot in this mode. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

That is exactly what I was getting at when people were speculating that Patriot would add and extend the keelson to the stern. Post # 10577.

The interesting thing is to see NZ looking like Patriot in this mode. 

Good point, guess we'll see what happens when they come out of the shed!  

For whatever reason, putting a rig and fairing in some guys around a meat cleaver seems to be the game when the boats are in the air.  Seems like the differences between boats have a lot to do with getting out of the water. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Got any footage of Amway in light airs flying a Code Zero actually don’t think they own one down range wind coverage is pretty slim maybe a sign not ideal Amway conditions.

Please, stop making crap up.  AM has used a code zero on Defiant, observations were that Patriot was able to get up on their foils in light wind without one.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Please, stop making crap up.  AM has used a code zero on Defiant, observations were that Patriot was able to get up on their foils in light wind without one.

Not crap at all Alky  just asked if you have ever seen Amway MKII wear a Code Zero on the sparkling Waitemata and provide footage of them in down range wind conditions as you used Te Rehutai as an example of TNZ copying Amways  head down arse up light air pose.

Theres plenty coverage of Amway fanging  it in decent breeze but bugger all showing her in the light stuff.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you lot think about the idea that the zeroes are only a positive for getting foiling? All the boats can clearly get flying without one, but what if it shaves 4 seconds off of take off but slows your tacks and gybes down by 1 second per turn?  Is there anything in the rules about starting with the same number of sails as you finish with? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, RMac said:

What do you lot think about the idea that the zeroes are only a positive for getting foiling? All the boats can clearly get flying without one, but what if it shaves 4 seconds off of take off but slows your tacks and gybes down by 1 second per turn?  Is there anything in the rules about starting with the same number of sails as you finish with? 

What do you mean throw the Code Zero overboard because it’s useless and save some weight.

Maybe that’s why Amway haven’t used one as the opposition looks all a bit ponderous when they wear one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Not crap at all Alky  just asked if you have ever seen Amway MKII wear a Code Zero on the sparkling Waitemata and provide footage of them in down range wind conditions as you used Te Rehutai as an example of TNZ copying Amways  head down arse up light air pose.

Theres plenty coverage of Amway fanging  it in decent breeze but bugger all showing her in the light stuff.

There’s plenty of footage of Patriot sailing in light conditions without a code zero while the Brits and Italians were. That tells me they don’t need the code zero in those conditions. They were sailing circles around the boats with code zeros.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

There’s plenty of footage of Patriot sailing in light conditions without a code zero while the Brits and Italians were. That tells me they don’t need the code zero in those conditions. They were sailing circles around the boats with code zeros.

If the Code Zero can get you up foiling in the light stuff it must be better than floundering around bareheaded.

Can you show some evidence of Amway taking off in the light stuff bareheaded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/17/2020 at 3:13 PM, weta27 said:

These boats seem to defy the laws of physics.

Last Friday, while both LR and INEOS were floundering around with their CZs up, in what appeared to be too light a breeze for foiling, Patriot (running their #1 jib) managed to get up and then took off like a scalded cat.

They appear to make their own wind and once up and foiling you wouldn't believe they were in the same breeze.

DSC_0845.jpg

Priscilla here you go...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

If the Code Zero can get you up foiling in the light stuff it must be better than floundering around bareheaded.

Can you show some evidence of Amway taking off in the light stuff bareheaded.

See my last post. Next time do your own research before making assumptions. There is video somewhere that goes with this.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

See my last post. Next time do your own research before making assumptions. There is video somewhere that goes with this.

Not assuming anything the primary role of the Code Zero is to get up and foiling in down range conditions

You have not provided any evidence that Amway can get it up in the light stuff.

Handbags in 6-8 knots.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Not assuming anything the primary role of the Code Zero is to get up and foiling in down range conditions

You have not provided any evidence that Amway can get it up in the light stuff.

Handbags in 6-8 knots.

 

Did you read Weta’s post or are you blind? He stated that he observed Patriot get up on foils in very light breeze using their large jib while the other floundered.

Why are you so daft? Oh yeah, you love to troll.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Not assuming anything the primary role of the Code Zero is to get up and foiling in down range conditions

You have not provided any evidence that Amway can get it up in the light stuff.

Handbags in 6-8 knots.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

 

Crikey it's taking a while to sink in Racer but where oh where is the get up and go footage none zip nada.

Maybe when Amway II emerges out of the Carbon Cosmetic Corrective Surgery Centre in Beaumont St after the weekend the improvements will included adding some balance to that nose heavy tadpole.

Maybe more of a tip truck with a Code Zero flying with all that weight cut from its arse.

Nice colour though.

AC75_Patriot_1st_Sail_No2_16102020.thumb.jpg.d7245edcb0d4493b4aa4fedbdf68ef5a.jpg 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

Did you read Weta’s post or are you blind?

Yes, although both INEOS and LR persisted with their CZs long after AM 'got it up' with their #1, so who knows how much was inability to foil and how much was testing and getting to grips with how the CZs work. The other two would have ditched their CZs by now if it was that simple.

ETNZ has also spent a lot of time working on their CZ and two days ago looked pretty proficient with it, zooming all over the place.

So three of the teams believe the CZ is worth evaluating for particular conditions, one apparently doesn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Yes, although both INEOS and LR persisted with their CZs long after AM 'got it up' with their #1, so who knows how much was inability to foil and how much was testing and getting to grips with how the CZs work. The other two would have ditched their CZs by now if it was that simple.

ETNZ has also spent a lot of time working on their CZ and two days ago looked pretty proficient with it, zooming all over the place.

So three of the teams believe the CZ is worth evaluating for particular conditions, one apparently doesn't.

I'd rather be Amwagic in that situation, wouldn't you? In that video they look better although it's hard to tell what the angles are., but given the choice I'd rather be able to take off with a jib and go faster, not sure why this is controversial?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RMac said:

I'd rather be Amwagic in that situation, wouldn't you? In that video they look better although it's hard to tell what the angles are., but given the choice I'd rather be able to take off with a jib and go faster, not sure why this is controversial?

It's not controversial Mac there is just a dearth of footage of Amway taking off in the 6-8 knot range apart from being towed.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you are a minute or two late getting to your foils you have a lot of catching up to do. particularly if the opposition can furl the CZ while on foils to reduce drag?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

It's not controversial Mac there is just a dearth of footage of Amway taking off in the 6-8 knot range apart from being towed.

 

 

To be fair, is their footage of them being towed with B2 onto foil?  They crash in that video and get back up without a tow.  They are not my dog in this race, so being honest here. 

 

I think the zeroes are going to be superfluous this time around as well, I bet if boats could chop the sprit they would.  Just my guess. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey it's taking a while to sink in Racer but where oh where is the get up and go footage none zip nada.

Maybe when Amway II emerges out of the Carbon Cosmetic Corrective Surgery Centre in Beaumont St after the weekend the improvements will included adding some balance to that nose heavy tadpole.

Maybe more of a tip truck with a Code Zero flying with all that weight cut from its arse.

Nice colour though.

AC75_Patriot_1st_Sail_No2_16102020.thumb.jpg.d7245edcb0d4493b4aa4fedbdf68ef5a.jpg 

 

You sound just like a freaking Trump supporter. If your goal is to be annoying, you have succeeded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

In this episode of Point of SAIL, Principal Editor Adam Cort talks with Andrew Campbell, the “flight controller” for the New York Yacht Club’s American Magic challenge

https://www.sailmagazine.com/web-exclusives/sail-podcast-americas-cup-flight-controller-andrew-campbell

Super-good interview, highly recommend a close listen to this. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, JustinL42 said:

You sound just like a freaking Trump supporter. If your goal is to be annoying, you have succeeded.

That's mean

 

Besides, it would be more like "Everyone knows Low Energy American Magic can't foil without toes from a chase boat.  Used to be very good people working for DeVos, but it's obvious helmsman has been taking money from the opposition. Investigate?  Can't believe crooked Hap Fauth (democrat?) can't hold Americas Cup here in America where it was made!"

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

In this episode of Point of SAIL, Principal Editor Adam Cort talks with Andrew Campbell, the “flight controller” for the New York Yacht Club’s American Magic challenge

https://www.sailmagazine.com/web-exclusives/sail-podcast-americas-cup-flight-controller-andrew-campbell

Thanks for posting this. It was one of a very few interviews that I found genuinely interesting! Andrew Campbell is a good speaker, and had plenty to say, and the presenter just asks a quick question and then lets Andrew talk.

Unlike some.

Won't spoil it by blabbing about everything... except "350 sensors on board", just to whet your appetite. ;)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Super-good interview, highly recommend a close listen to this. 

Self quoting is so pathetic, still no one listening to you troll bot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, barfy said:

Self quoting is so pathetic, still no one listening to you troll bot.

Geez you’re a nasty piece of work. 
 

After posting it I finished listening and then, realizing how cool it is, posted a recommendation. If you think I care one shit about post-counts then you are even dumber than I had suspected. Listen to that piece, maybe you’d learn something cool, attitude included. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One may notice that when the Zero is in use, the normal forestay is not attached.  This permits the zero to tack and gybe smoothly without having to be winched around the normal forestay.

It does, however commit you to the zero for the entire race. You cannot ( by Rule) send a crewman forward to rig the forestay and jib.  So if you decide you need the grunt to get on foils, you better know you can still go fast if the breeze builds.

SHC

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RMac said:

That's mean

 

Besides, it would be more like "Everyone knows Low Energy American Magic can't foil without toes from a chase boat.  Used to be very good people working for DeVos, but it's obvious helmsman has been taking money from the opposition. Investigate?  Can't believe crooked Hap Fauth (democrat?) can't hold Americas Cup here in America where it was made!"

I think you still spelled too many words correctly but that did make me chuckle lol!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

One may notice that when the Zero is in use, the normal forestay is not attached.  This permits the zero to tack and gybe smoothly without having to be winched around the normal forestay.

It does, however commit you to the zero for the entire race. You cannot ( by Rule) send a crewman forward to rig the forestay and jib.  So if you decide you need the grunt to get on foils, you better know you can still go fast if the breeze builds.

SHC

What about sailing with both foils down? Wouldn’t that counteract much sailarea? To much for the rig perhaps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, weta27 said:

Yes, although both INEOS and LR persisted with their CZs long after AM 'got it up' with their #1, so who knows how much was inability to foil and how much was testing and getting to grips with how the CZs work. The other two would have ditched their CZs by now if it was that simple.

ETNZ has also spent a lot of time working on their CZ and two days ago looked pretty proficient with it, zooming all over the place.

So three of the teams believe the CZ is worth evaluating for particular conditions, one apparently doesn't.

In one of the last video's from the Italian guys, they didn't think that any of the teams would be using the code zeros in the races.  Didn't you also say (or was it the Rialto article) that said NZ was making much slower turns with the code zero and didn't look as maneuverable.  The code zero has got to be huge drag once you are up foiling.  I can't imagine any team wanting to use a code zero if they can get away with a smaller sail.  Just like in the video posted above.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey it's taking a while to sink in Racer but where oh where is the get up and go footage none zip nada.

Maybe when Amway II emerges out of the Carbon Cosmetic Corrective Surgery Centre in Beaumont St after the weekend the improvements will included adding some balance to that nose heavy tadpole.

Maybe more of a tip truck with a Code Zero flying with all that weight cut from its arse.

Nice colour though.

AC75_Patriot_1st_Sail_No2_16102020.thumb.jpg.d7245edcb0d4493b4aa4fedbdf68ef5a.jpg 

 

Glad I am not the only one who things AM looks like a tadpole 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Not crap at all Alky  just asked if you have ever seen Amway MKII wear a Code Zero on the sparkling Waitemata and provide footage of them in down range wind conditions as you used Te Rehutai as an example of TNZ copying Amways  head down arse up light air pose.

Theres plenty coverage of Amway fanging  it in decent breeze but bugger all showing her in the light stuff.

You are just too defensive.  I did not say that NZ was copying AM.  I just pointed out how NZ looked similar to the way Patriot sails with the bow down and the tail up in the air where no end plating is possible past the mast.  It is in response to the fanboys thinking that AM wishes it had a longer keelson that extended to the stern.  NZ's keelson volume in the aft of the boat is more similar to Patriot than it is to UK or LR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given you can be towed up prior to the start isn’t it kinda pointless using the CZ

the fear though will be falling off in 6-8. 
 

I kinda hope we just have some proper racing, not fucking around with one boat foiling and one not

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, JALhazmat said:

Given you can be towed up prior to the start isn’t it kinda pointless using the CZ

the fear though will be falling off in 6-8. 
 

I kinda hope we just have some proper racing, not fucking around with one boat foiling and one not

 

That is another good point about the tow in.  And basically you have no chance of winning if you fall off the foils in the light of wind and the other boat is sailing away at 20-30 knots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RMac said:

To be fair, is their footage of them being towed with B2 onto foil?  They crash in that video and get back up without a tow.  They are not my dog in this race, so being honest here. 

 

I think the zeroes are going to be superfluous this time around as well, I bet if boats could chop the sprit they would.  Just my guess. 

Somewhere I read that the bowsprit is not actually a legal requirement if the weight can be relocated elsewhere.

From RG
While it is not compulsory for teams to have a bowsprit, it is one of the items specified in the Class Rule. If not present, the boat must carry a compensating ballast weight in a specified place.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/225640/Americas-Cup-ETNZ-gives-Code-Zero-a-work-out

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

You are just too defensive.  I did not say that NZ was copying AM.  I just pointed out how NZ looked similar to the way Patriot sails with the bow down and the tail up in the air where no end plating is possible past the mast.  It is in response to the fanboys thinking that AM wishes it had a longer keelson that extended to the stern.  NZ's keelson volume in the aft of the boat is more similar to Patriot than it is to UK or LR.

It's not lack of rear bustle Te Rehutai looks to sail flatter than Amway II if the mast rake is similar the green bands on the sails present at differing angles.

Shows up more obviously in the videos.

 

image.png.b891a5d2d4a630ed2b837b960b31e929.png.42550e47da8e5c2e3d13012708fc4ffd.png

yysw298598.jpg.96039b8a59ab4e6a865b2ccd0b38a0aa.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Priscilla said:

It's not controversial Mac there is just a dearth of footage of Amway taking off in the 6-8 knot range apart from being towed.

 

 

Dude how do you think they got on foils without the CZ? It wasn’t by towing. You have no footage of them towing that day do you? You’re such a troll. There is eye whiteness accounts of them getting up on their foils during light breeze without the CZ. so why do you need footage? Do you think Trump won the election too? Maybe you believe the earth is flat until someone gives you video footage to proof otherwise? You’re a Class A troll.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

It's not lack of rear bustle Te Rehutai looks to sail flatter than Amway II if the mast rake is similar the green bands on the sails present at differing angles.

Shows up more obviously in the videos.

 

image.png.b891a5d2d4a630ed2b837b960b31e929.png.42550e47da8e5c2e3d13012708fc4ffd.png

yysw298598.jpg.96039b8a59ab4e6a865b2ccd0b38a0aa.jpg

draw your sail lines on this one (bow down and tail up, mainsail bats horizontal) :

image.png.f8b2197cd1923192909ca3306af3ad65.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one is talking about the amazing crabbing to windward of NYYC.

They must have amazing VMG, which lets face it, is the name of the game?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

No one is talking about the amazing crabbing to windward of NYYC.

They must have amazing VMG, which lets face it, is the name of the game?

You mean when the other boat has a code zero and they have a jib?

That crabbing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

looks like NZ is trying to do its best imitation of AM Patriot in very light winds.  Bow down, arse in the air with very little plating to the water after the mast.

Not really. RT runs flat. No need to get the arse in the air with such a short rudder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, I14RACER said:

Dude how do you think they got on foils without the CZ? It wasn’t by towing. You have no footage of them towing that day do you? You’re such a troll. There is eye whiteness accounts of them getting up on their foils during light breeze without the CZ. so why do you need footage? Do you think Trump won the election too? Maybe you believe the earth is flat until someone gives you video footage to proof otherwise? You’re a Class A troll.

Crikey you Yankees are a touchy lot boat in the shed and a stolen election what's next...

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

In this episode of Point of SAIL, Principal Editor Adam Cort talks with Andrew Campbell, the “flight controller” for the New York Yacht Club’s American Magic challenge

https://www.sailmagazine.com/web-exclusives/sail-podcast-americas-cup-flight-controller-andrew-campbell

Very interesting interview.  

Andrew says they have gone through about 7-8 iterations of his flight controller and they are making more changes right now.  He said the Mule was much less forgiving than the AC-75 so they learned very quickly how to sail this type of boat (capsized it about 19 times).  He says that each team has one last foil design and that will show the design goals of each team as far as prioritizing stability versus speed.  AM is the only team that has not used larger, torpedo-less foils (trade offs).  He said ideally, you want foils that will get up to speed the fastest and allow you to stay there the longest, yet still have enough stability in the maneuvers.  This is all based upon the predicted weather conditions that will be during the races.

He also mentioned that if you touch down during a race you will lose.  So being able to have confidence in your handling of the boat is critical.  They want to be able to maneuver the boat without any major loss in speed.  This will allow you to use racing tactics that can force your opponent into a bad situation. (my summary, not verbatim)

He also said there are some competing mainsail design philosophies taking place.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, astro said:

You mean when the other boat has a code zero and they have a jib?

That crabbing?

No if you watch the video of them from behind they move to windward about 10 degrees from their apparent hull direction.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

No if you watch the video of them from behind they move to windward about 10 degrees from their apparent hull direction.

Might just mean the hull is pointing 10 degrees low.

Hard to imaging a boat making new laws of physics by that much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, astro said:

Might just mean the hull is pointing 10 degrees low.

Hard to imaging a boat making new laws of physics by that much.

Like going 3 times the speed of the wind down wind?

There is some complicated thing going on but IMHO they have the foils (and/or the bottom of the arms)  pushing the boat to windward a lot?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Steve Clark said:

It does, however commit you to the zero for the entire race. You cannot ( by Rule) send a crewman forward to rig the forestay and jib.  So if you decide you need the grunt to get on foils, you better know you can still go fast if the breeze builds.

SHC

Is this true?

You can go forward to 'handle sails' and do a 'drop' and 'hoist'. You just need to be tethered.

992244330_ScreenShot2020-12-04at12_09_23PM.png.2f88a2df06a8831f294ada3717e8a014.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I expect managing a hoist or a drop of a CZ DURING a race will take more than one member of the crew, with that in mind i think the race would be done.

 

unless its a total blow out and both boats have to stop mid race and change down. none of the boats seem to be equipped with any where to store the old /new sail though and remain actually functional

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Crikey you Yankees are a touchy lot boat in the shed and a stolen election what's next...

Nope. You have a history on here of being a troll. Trying to get a rise out of people. Also of being someone who thinks he knows it all. I wanted to make sure I pointed that out.

I haven’t lost any sleep over this and never will.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Somewhere I read that the bowsprit is not actually a legal requirement if the weight can be relocated elsewhere.

From RG
While it is not compulsory for teams to have a bowsprit, it is one of the items specified in the Class Rule. If not present, the boat must carry a compensating ballast weight in a specified place.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/225640/Americas-Cup-ETNZ-gives-Code-Zero-a-work-out

 

Interesting, what's everyone's guess as to how many sprits actually go racing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites