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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

I think maybe 'easing the main' at that point could exacerbate the impending capsize in an AC75. Apparent wind has rocketed aft at stall speed, so the last thing you'd need is more power in the rig. But what the fuck would I know?

Yeah. The dynamics of that situation are not something I understand.

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Just now, Zeusproject said:

Soon as the gust hits if there’s no ease it’s over.    There was quite clearly an effort to ease but the runner impedes 

Have to keep the boat under the rig.  If not game over 

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Yeah at 2:47:30 they start turning basically on the "2" part of the count. Whoever's voice was that didn't want to make the turn that quickly. Unless it was DB and then that's confusing. 

 

I remember thinking live that the coms messed up and that was why it was out of sync. Weren't the commentators talking about how it seemed like no one could hear DB? Or something?

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Rewatching the crash you can hear an audible crack when the foil touches back down after being airborne (unless that's something slapping the water)

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2 minutes ago, jsn7821 said:

 

Yeah at 2:47:30 they start turning basically on the "2" part of the count. Whoever's voice was that didn't want to make the turn that quickly. Unless it was DB and then that's confusing. 

 

I remember thinking live that the coms messed up and that was why it was out of sync. Weren't the commentators talking about how it seemed like no one could hear DB? Or something?

Hundreds of millions of greenbacks trashed because of a flat battery in the earpiece....

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14 hours ago, sosoomii said:

I’m not so familiar with decimal odds, but does that mean you can place equal money on all the challengers (US, UK and Italy) and provided NZ don’t win you’ll still make a profit?

Very close to the same profit you'd make if you put a challenger's worth of money on ETNZ and it won.

 

edit...Oops, in one case only, otherwise  a load of rubbish, disregard.

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On 1/16/2021 at 6:38 AM, Rennmaus said:
On 1/16/2021 at 6:29 AM, Enzedel92 said:

Look Terry and Deano make an awful tactical combination..  Goes all the way back to the 2007 America’s Cup.  Hutch and Deano REFUSED to take the right off the starts.  Race after race they allowed Alinghi the right and Alinghi bludgeoned them tack after tack and reduced ETNZ to a pile of rubble.  
 

They don’t make the best sailing decisions, been like that for years..

Exactly my thought when I heard that both are in the same team again.

Hell yes. I've bitched about TH calls in Valencia right here before

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Just doesn’t look like the best position to be as a tactician whilst doing 40 + knots.

TH smacks a bit of Lord Daltons efforts in San Fransisco.

9E1A846A-3D5E-444F-B484-BEF9F1DCC6EA.thumb.jpeg.9dbdb2737c93649571b88a5e013243a4.jpeg

 

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3 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Just doesn’t look like the best position to be as a tactician whilst doing 40 + knots.

TH smacks a bit of Lord Daltons efforts in San Fransisco.

9E1A846A-3D5E-444F-B484-BEF9F1DCC6EA.thumb.jpeg.9dbdb2737c93649571b88a5e013243a4.jpeg

 

Bloody stupid idea, the Brits are doing it better with a dedicated tactician 

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4 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Just doesn’t look like the best position to be as a tactician whilst doing 40 + knots.

TH smacks a bit of Lord Daltons efforts in San Fransisco.

9E1A846A-3D5E-444F-B484-BEF9F1DCC6EA.thumb.jpeg.9dbdb2737c93649571b88a5e013243a4.jpeg

 

Except Daly’s wasn’t calling tactics. Davies was wasn’t he 

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6 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Except Daly’s wasn’t calling tactics. Davies was wasn’t he 

Putting him back on the boat is not a bad idea we need a dedicated technician on ETNZ. Just tell the grinders they have to work harder

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17 minutes ago, Zeusproject said:

Except Daly’s wasn’t calling tactics. Davies was wasn’t he 

Based on what was seen today Casper can’t multi task nor should he being no spring chicken his wattage output would not exactly be optimum the sunglasses went west in a desperate search for clarity and he was oh so quiet.

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Decent lead, one leg to go, squall coming, go high risk?

Make American Magic Great Again

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Something definitely broke off when it hit.

You can see it floating in the wake, I thought it was a crew-member at first.

Might be something from the cockpit but I'm betting hinge cover from the timing.

 

Edit:

Just popping up here above the USA

5OpaXdV.png

Edit2: the floating bit Nav points out in the foreground

v0yX0fs.png

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Saw something (black carbon) further out to stb just as the first chase boat came in

2:49:16

 

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11 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The US Coast Guard ordered that. 

BS as Rennie (resident Cup Historian) pointed out

Save the spin...

11 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

TV schedules are more important than wind conditions since the AC in SF.

YouTube 24/7!!

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THE JUMP:

image.png.5a85c470ac2833a6f5e8e70d2ede5551.png

The port foil telemetry seems ok, so the mechanism might be intact:

image.png.8729d9e6fbe36462f26e7ace03bfd2d7.png

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Make America Float Again

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The should give Core Builders Composites in warkworth a ring, there excellent at this sort of work

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2 minutes ago, mako23 said:

The should give Core Builders Composites in warkworth a ring, there excellent at this sort of work

No 8 wire and some kiwi boat builders will have that fixed by Tuesday, earlier if you don’t mind the paint not matching

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1 minute ago, mikenz2 said:

Quite a hole :-(

1240327-03.jpeg

No wonder it nearly sank

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That looks nothing like the bit that was delivered to the base earlier

 

BA3F2B5D-9922-4FBA-A26D-16C8493719F0.jpeg

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What a job list

pull out all the internals ( Hydraulics and electronics)

fix the hole or holes

fix the internal systems

test the internals

reinstall internals 

test boat

 

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Hadn't realised the floaty bit & its landing had already been posted on the Prada Cup thread :o

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5 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

Showing more of the extent, forward and aft of the hole.

P1240290 (2).JPG

Crikey, looks like the integrity of most of the hull has been compromised.  My optimism level has just plunged.

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Yep, stick a fork in Patriot its cooked.

Defiant or withdraw.

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22 minutes ago, Tropical Madness said:

i wonder if there was something left in the sewer that had some weight... which became inertia and punched this massive hole?

I’m guessing it was a hydraulic ram sheering off it’s mounts then continuing through the side of the boat.

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2 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

I’m guessing it was a hydraulic ram sheering off it’s mounts then continuing through the side of the boat.

Ram for what?
 

Foils seem to be in the down position

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Just now, Rushman said:

Ram for what?
 

Foils seem to be in the down position

Gravity will do that without a ram holding them up.

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2 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Gravity will do that without a ram holding them up.

Sorry.. in the down position while sailing, not in the fully down position when on the cradle

FCS rams still connected IMHO

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10 minutes ago, hoom said:

Yep, stick a fork in Patriot its cooked.

Defiant or withdraw.

If they haven’t destroyed the mold for Patriot they could rebuild the port bow section and fly it out to NZ 

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They'll have to rebuild nearly the entire hull.

You can't do that in 4 days.

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3 minutes ago, mako23 said:

If they haven’t destroyed the mold for Patriot they could rebuild the port bow section and fly it out to NZ 

It would not be hard to fill the hole up paste a load of car bog over the cracks and fair it out. You could then take a flash molding off the hull to make a new section from. I fear its the systems that will take the real time. The hull only needs to be strong enough to deal with normal loads and keep the water out. If you can replace  the systems and make them reliable. You can make it look pretty after next weekend.   

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2 minutes ago, Status quo said:

It would not be hard to fill the hole up paste a load of car bog over the cracks and fair it out. You could then take a flash molding off the hull to make a new section from. I fear its the systems that will take the real time. The hull only needs to be strong enough to deal with normal loads and keep the water out. If you can replace  the systems and make them reliable. You can make it look pretty after next weekend.   

It's not the hull that takes the bulk of the loads, it's the internal framing. If they are damaged as well, it may be game over. :(

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7 minutes ago, Status quo said:

The hull only needs to be strong enough to deal with normal loads and keep the water out

Well... and hold the fcs in place. Not trivial. This isn't like filling a hole, it's likely a crucial structural join point.

Putting a plaster over it and sending the boys out again on Friday won't exactly inspire confidence.

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4 hours ago, Zeusproject said:

True but in the end the wheel is turned by who.    The skipper

The skipper is TH, DB is the helmsmen.  I think they need to free up Goddison to do a role like Giles.  I am beginning to see that INEOS has played a blinder with their crew set up. The after guard is more important than any other AC race in history.  You get into even the slightest wrong part of the course the opposition can make 500 m.  I was also wondering why they removed a hatch when it was on its side after the capsize...Did that cause the water ingress? Or is it hull damage?  Ah just seen a fridge shaped hole. eddited

Edited by dullers
might as well old chap. Had an after thought.
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21 minutes ago, hoom said:

They'll have to rebuild nearly the entire hull.

You can't do that in 4 days.

I guess they have until the Prada semis which is 11 days, but it looks like a HUGE job. I think it might be curtains for AM, which is a real shame for the event.

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9 minutes ago, marlowe said:

I guess they have until the Prada semis which is 11 days, but it looks like a HUGE job. I think it might be curtains for AM, which is a real shame for the event.

It is sad because in those conditions she was 2-5 knots faster. 48 knots at one point.

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1 minute ago, dullers said:

It is sad because in those conditions she was 2-5 knots faster. 48 knots at one point.

Yes, no problem with speed, AM is a fast boat. I hope they can repair it in time for the semis. Otherwise there'll be no racing until a INEOS v LR Prada final. It's a shame because today's racing was some of the most exciting since one or two of the San Fransisco final races in 2013.

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24 minutes ago, marlowe said:

I guess they have until the Prada semis which is 11 days, but it looks like a HUGE job. I think it might be curtains for AM, which is a real shame for the event.

they can do it in 11 days.

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4 minutes ago, dullers said:

they can do it in 11 days.

This is a bit more than some bog and paint.

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Sheared carbon seen immediately as the boat leans to its side in slo-mo. Pic from daily higlights video.
Sorry for them. They will bounce back.

 

am2.png

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10 minutes ago, ct800 said:

Sheared carbon seen immediately as the boat leans to its side in slo-mo. Pic from daily higlights video.
Sorry for them. They will bounce back.

 

am2.png

Good pickup.. perhaps that square thing in the water was the projectile?

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Well that thing was floating, so not much mass to it. I'd guess that was the hull section, while the projectile went straight down to the bottom

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Not much is lost if AM if they pull out of the cup. They where in the “thanks for also showing up and give the big boys someone to race against” category. Making up the numbers really

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Just now, underperformer said:

Not much is lost if AM if they pull out of the cup. They where in the “thanks for also showing up and give the big boys someone to race against” category. Making up the numbers really

Just three days ago they were the favorite among the challengers...

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1 minute ago, underperformer said:

Not much is lost if AM if they pull out of the cup. They where in the “thanks for also showing up and give the big boys someone to race against” category. Making up the numbers really

Why do you say that? 

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5 hours ago, Liquid Assett NZ said:

Agreed rushed and panicky and one guy wasn't keen at all. Not a word from the Skipper TH

I think he had comms problems.

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14 minutes ago, underperformer said:

Not much is lost if AM if they pull out of the cup. They where in the “thanks for also showing up and give the big boys someone to race against” category. Making up the numbers really

Very cute the noobs turning up when there 's someone to be ridiculed. Fuck off, noob, and don't show us anything anymore.

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15 minutes ago, underperformer said:

Not much is lost if AM if they pull out of the cup. They where in the “thanks for also showing up and give the big boys someone to race against” category. Making up the numbers really

Short memory - already forgotten the ACWS?

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*Not much is lost if AM if they pull out of the cup*

No one in the true sailing community wants to see AM drop out, which is why everyone down there will help them to dig themselves out of this set-back, best they can.

“It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might as well not have lived at all. In which case, you fail by default…”

[Fingers crossed we see the Yanks back out on the water]

It’s a lesser field without them.

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47 minutes ago, TPG said:

This is a bit more than some bog and paint.

They have some of the best engineers and maint people in the business.  I dont count them out for 3 days either. They wont be working 9 to 5 it will be night and day so you could say that have 6 working days to fix this or 22 if they go the other final playoff route. 

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5 minutes ago, dullers said:

They have some of the best engineers and maint people in the business.  I dont count them out for 3 days either. They wont be working 9 to 5 it will be night and day so you could say that have 6 working days to fix this or 22 if they go the other final playoff route. 

Again, you seem to think they're just going to fix the hull and be on their way. It sunk. It was full of water, everything has to be pulled apart, inspected and possibly replaced.

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4 minutes ago, Marinatrix447 said:

*Not much is lost if AM if they pull out of the cup*

No one in the true sailing community wants to see AM drop out, which is why everyone down there will help them to dig themselves out of this set-back, best they can.

“It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might as well not have lived at all. In which case, you fail by default…”

[Fingers crossed we see the Yanks back out on the water]

It’s a lesser field without them.

^ ++ Ran out of likes for the day. Quite agree, will be sad if AM are out after this.

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1 minute ago, TPG said:

Again, you seem to think they're just going to fix the hull and be on their way. It sunk. It was full of water, everything has to be pulled apart, inspected and possibly replaced.

I know that and have said it in another post about the other things to fix. They are not in a bulk standard boat yard.

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Just now, dullers said:

I know that and have said it in another post about the other things to fix. They are not in a bulk standard boat yard.

I think most people are overlooking this, if they stripped parts off of Defiant to build Patriot, and now need to replace all the electronics alone, that will be a big task.  

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I feel gutted for the Americans. I hope they make it back, but at this stage it's 5050. 

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This is just horrible.  This is a well run/organized effort.  Not some kind of "shoe string" Stars and Stripes bullshit deal showing up at the last minute using someone'd discarded development rig.

My only comment is this.  With a high speed platform of this nature that requires second by second decision making and decision changes the tactician has absolutely NO  BUSINESS being put in a heads down position on a grinding pedestal or anything else.  WTF people....

I hope they can get her back together.

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3 minutes ago, XPRO said:

I think most people are overlooking this, if they stripped parts off of Defiant to build Patriot, and now need to replace all the electronics alone, that will be a big task.  

You are correct. Do they have the spares? You would have thought so but if you have to use Amazon then that may be an issue.

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The hole, I am told, was caused by the FCS battery dislodging and flying through the hull on splash down. 

My take on the communications: Terry might have liked the left hand side, but if the main trimmer doesn't think they can cope with the power, then you follow his advice (he is after all, a 3 time moth world champion) Dean needs to listen to his crew, they are very good. Ultimately, they had a commanding lead and didn't need to take risks. Could it have worked if the backstay had eased? Maybe, but it was never worth the risk in the context of the racing scenario.  

I really hope they can recover, because they have a good boat and the team rolls / decision making problems are easy to fix. 

 

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4 hours ago, mako23 said:

Putting him back on the boat is not a bad idea we need a dedicated technician on ETNZ. Just tell the grinders they have to work harder

I really like the grinder set up on INEOS.  They are able to actually see whats going on with the boat.  Well at least half of them are depending on what tack/gibe they are on and the leeward side grinders can at least see half of whats happening.  Same as the "bikers" could on the ETNZ cat in the last version.  These boats require everyone on board to be able to keep their heads up.  Can you imagine sailing a foiling moth around a course having to look down all the time?

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1 minute ago, Mozzy Sails said:

The hole, I am told, was caused by the FCS battery dislodging and flying through the hull on splash down. 

 

THIS would make a lot of sense.

The shape and location of the hole in the hull would be in agreement with such an explanation...

Such a deceleration for 30-50kg heavy battery could certainly cause quite a bit of damage...

Now the question is who designed the fixing for the battery...?

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11 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I feel gutted for the Americans. I hope they make it back, but at this stage it's 5050. 

Yeah, feeling much the same. Been expecting them to bounce back into the thick of things... now this.

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2 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

It's not the hull that takes the bulk of the loads, it's the internal framing. If they are damaged as well, it may be game over. :(

Yes but this looks like the batterys left the boat at speed, not a structal failier. 

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4 minutes ago, MastaVonBlasta said:

THIS would make a lot of sense.

The shape and location of the hole in the hull would be in agreement with such an explanation...

Such a deceleration for 30-50kg heavy battery could certainly cause quite a bit of damage...

Now the question is who designed the fixing for the battery...?

Dean Barker. Not really he is being unfairly slagged when the issue is more to do with how the after guard is set up.

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1 hour ago, ianz said:

Well... and hold the fcs in place. Not trivial. This isn't like filling a hole, it's likely a crucial structural join point.

Putting a plaster over it and sending the boys out again on Friday won't exactly inspire confidence.

Sorry but I was refering to cosmetics not structure. You make a quick mold from what you have, make a replacment pannel . Cut out the damaged area and graft in the new pannel. Possible in four days. The sysems and stress testing should take min two weeks and thats the challange. 

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I feel a bit like when Vestas hit the reef. Helpless, disbelieving and sometimes still in denial.

Poor chaps on AM.

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Chatting with some of the boys, we are thinking through this, all those planning , design, management, shipping logistics and sailing hours for what , three years.  If you do a linear timeline they all stop at the point that the runner failed or someone did not do their job of release as they were looking down course. Also interesting is that they did a tack/bear-away with the main trimmer and helm on the low side...  

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20 minutes ago, XPRO said:

I think most people are overlooking this, if they stripped parts off of Defiant to build Patriot, and now need to replace all the electronics alone, that will be a big task.  

I cant see AM having only bought one of each part. Cabling wont be an issue as they will have drums of it.

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1 minute ago, Status quo said:

Sorry but I was refering to cosmetics not structure. You make a quick mold from what you have, make a replacment pannel . Cut out the damaged area and graft in the new pannel. Possible in four days. The sysems and stress testing should take min two weeks and thats the challange. 

My guess is that the stress testing will be done on the run,

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Just now, dullers said:

I cant see AM having only bought one of each part. Cabling wont be an issue as they will have drums of it.

it took them 8 days to transfer parts, that is a lot of stuff to commission Patriot. 

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5 minutes ago, Status quo said:

Yes but this looks like the batterys left the boat at speed, not a structal failier. 

OK, I'll keep my fingers crossed that it was the battery, and that it made a "clean" exit. The hull alone would certainly be fixable with some Kiwi help.

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Just now, XPRO said:

it took them 8 days to transfer parts, that is a lot of stuff to commission Patriot. 

Yes but that 8 days, what hours were they working. This will be a full on war mentality to get it fixed.

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7 minutes ago, dullers said:

You are correct. Do they have the spares? You would have thought so but if you have to use Amazon then that may be an issue.

We know none of the teams have the personnel to run a 2 boat program.  I'd imagine due to budgets they don't have a 2nd fully loaded boat just sitting on a cradle.  However, I'd like to think the electronic systems are encapsulated to protect them from possible salt water ingress.  I know the old Sail Comp systems were sealed.  I was on a fully submerged J29, (Hurricane Hugo) and the sail comp displays were functioning with an alarm ringing.  Then we did something stupid and unplugged the displays while they were still under water and the water went right in...    

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19 minutes ago, Status quo said:

Yes but this looks like the batterys left the boat at speed, not a structal failier. 

Whatever punched that hole did it at speed!

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Gutted for the team. Not gutted for Dean Barker. Why is this guy at the helm again? So much talent out there and they're paying Deano some crazy amount of money to sink the boat. Good riddance.

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24 minutes ago, Status quo said:

Yes but this looks like the batterys left the boat at speed, not a structal failier. 

Apart from the bit of structure that was supposed to keep the battery in place, you mean?

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16 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Whatever punched that hole did it at speed!

Got to wonder if the accumulator for the FCS also went pop, with the diagonal stripes and cracks spreading far out from the hole it looks more than just a battery exiting stage left.

My money is on whatever held the battery in place being the casualty of an exploding pressure vessel 

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