Barnyb

Team NYYC

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14 hours ago, Kiwing said:

I don't see the separation bulb or much other evidence of the twin skins (unless you are suggesting that that batten is evidence of twin skins?). but looking at the D section in previous image it appears to have just two male tracks?

But it is all so new and puzzling (for me) it will be fun trying to piece together the evidence to get near the truth.

Anyway it looks like a great round of experimenting and learning

Twin skin NYYC 11-11-18.png

Look at the shot from aft and look through the window. Twin skin sail which is separated far further back than the diagram above - unless shopped. 

 

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22 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The YT link for convenience:

 

Look at the mainsail window above. Either shopped or twin skinned. 

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43 minutes ago, Big Show said:

Look at the mainsail window above. Either shopped or twin skinned. 

That's a much bigger separation than I would have expected at the foot... No?

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1 hour ago, Big Show said:

Look at the mainsail window above. Either shopped or twin skinned. 

I still can’t figure out the point of that window on the main. I get it on dinghies, but a 38 footer where you’re huddled in cockpits for aero?  

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

I still can’t figure out the point of that window on the main. I get it on dinghies, but a 38 footer where you’re huddled in cockpits for aero?  

They won’t sheet out much and the boats won’t heel much so what’s the story on those windows? 

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

I still can’t figure out the point of that window on the main. I get it on dinghies, but a 38 footer where you’re huddled in cockpits for aero?  

it could be a future visual guide to align the twin sails when they begin to separate them, or just an aid for the sailors when crossing from side to side.

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7 hours ago, Somtam Cowboy said:

C  G  I                 :ph34r:

Not in the sailing sequence. Water is one of the 3 holy grails of cg, insanely expensive in 3d. These folk have other things to do. The blur on the UK footage on the other hand would be a simple 2d track, with no masking of the live plate. Still not sure wtf they would be hiding.

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Not in the sailing sequence. Water is one of the 3 holy grails of cg, insanely expensive in 3d. These folk have other things to do. The blur on the UK footage on the other hand would be a simple 2d track, with no masking of the live plate. Still not sure wtf they would be hiding.

and besides, other footage, posted here no less has shown the boat foiling and a member here who has seen it personally said it it was hauling ass. what possible reason would the AM have to spend thousands of dollars on making a CGI video of the boat foiling?

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33 minutes ago, frozenhawaiian said:

and besides, other footage, posted here no less has shown the boat foiling and a member here who has seen it personally said it it was hauling ass. what possible reason would the AM have to spend thousands of dollars on making a CGI video of the boat foiling?

+1 

It’s ridiculous and I suspect the Front Page was just making fun of the foolish BS that preceeded this video, about all the supposed ‘shopping of the original AM launch photos. Right up the back channel of the NZ fanboys here with their all the dumbassed Herbie conspiracy theories! 

Lmao

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8 hours ago, Big Show said:

Look at the mainsail window above. Either shopped or twin skinned. 

Is that a luff groove running next to the sail?

Screenshot_20181111-170645.png

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2 hours ago, See Level said:

Is that a luff groove running next to the sail?

Screenshot_20181111-170645.png

I was wondering that myself also looks like a really beefy boom for a boat of that size, attachment car for that batten also looks really beef. 

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7 hours ago, See Level said:

Is that a luff groove running next to the sail?

Screenshot_20181111-170645.png

Is that not just an overhead leach line? If you have this twin skinned sail you are going to need reasonable control of the leach for both parts... Some boats have some pretty nice block and tackles for the overheads...

Seems to me that the 'window' are for viewing the twin skins and their separation... 

Id love to have a good look at that sail on the loft floor!

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The front page is suggesting the footage was CGI... Personally I don't think they would go through the trouble but who knows with the amount of money thrown around in these cup cylces. I will say that the mast looks a hell of a lot taller than some of the original photos taken when she splashed. 

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So it turns out the foil wings are not 'dummies', not just there until the 'real ones with anhedral' turn up, they are apparently ballasted and they clearly work well.

So one more point to clear up - do they have flaps?

image.thumb.png.edd534b4d906a3cedfb5948f8896f684.png

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from https://www.sailingworld.com/confirmed-flight-for-american-magic

..

There are two individual aft cockpits for helmsman Dean Barker, who steers from a pair of small silver wheels he salvaged from Softbank Team Japan’s AC50. Seated in his swiveling go-cart style seat, Barker has his own control buttons and grip adjustments at hand as well as a clear view of the horizon that allows him to scan for changes in wind strength, as well as the lobster pots that dot Rhode Island’s Narragansett Bay. Hooking one of the Mule’s foils while flying at 30 knots is a major concern, says Barker.

..

As allowed by AC75 class rules, Individual mainsail tracks either side of the mast’s aft face hint of a double-surface mainsail concept, all of which is in very early stages of development.

..

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I wonder if the rules allow changing the angle of attack of the whole foil section, no flaps required then (I do think there is some rules around how big flaps can be, but how that would relate to the whole foil I don't know).

There is something going on at the back of the foil, you can see a white square where the foil meets the foil arm in the underwater shots.

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5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

from https://www.sailingworld.com/confirmed-flight-for-american-magic

..

There are two individual aft cockpits for helmsman Dean Barker, who steers from a pair of small silver wheels he salvaged from Softbank Team Japan’s AC50. Seated in his swiveling go-cart style seat, Barker has his own control buttons and grip adjustments at hand as well as a clear view of the horizon that allows him to scan for changes in wind strength, as well as the lobster pots that dot Rhode Island’s Narragansett Bay. Hooking one of the Mule’s foils while flying at 30 knots is a major concern, says Barker.

..

As allowed by AC75 class rules, Individual mainsail tracks either side of the mast’s aft face hint of a double-surface mainsail concept, all of which is in very early stages of development.

..

Interesting article.  They claim that it can take off in 9 knots of wind and the picture does show that the earlier pictures were photoshopped on the foils and a few other places.  you can clearly see the stays through the sail window and that second window indicating that it is a dual sail.

 

the-mule.jpg

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", a date dependent upon the arrival of supplied parts from overseas."

A bit of a pre winge perhaps? Bet there are some ovens cooking around NZ over Xmas, the 50's and the supplied parts and etnz's boats.

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On 11/13/2018 at 3:15 AM, nav said:

So it turns out the foil wings are not 'dummies', not just there until the 'real ones with anhedral' turn up, they are apparently ballasted and they clearly work well.

So one more point to clear up - do they have flaps?

Yes, but they may be small with the hinge in the darker part toward the trailing edge.

Perhaps this is the light wind setup, with bigger flaps and anhedral for heavier stuff. There are benefits to a straight foil when it's light and leeway isn't an issue. I'd guess it has a better lift/drag ratio than the heavily angled INEOS foils.

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On 11/11/2018 at 8:35 AM, Big Show said:

Look at the shot from aft and look through the window. Twin skin sail which is separated far further back than the diagram above - unless shopped. 

 

the batten... spar? near the foot of the main is... unusual... to say the least.

The horizontal line between the sets of tell-tales is almost certainly a join in the outer taffeta (falsely painted to match 3Di's appearance rather than adding any real benefit (other than off-anticipated-axis loading, aka "we don't know, but taffeta makes it ok-ish") - while T-Hutch and Dean are in this for real, the backing money is in this to promote a product) skin, and not a batten or shaping rib.

The issue I see with the diagram of the D-spare and twin luff sail as illustrated above (with the opposite skin joining around 1/4-1/3 of the cord), is that there is no sensible way to incorporate battens- unless the batten and car travel down a center groove making them unbiased per tack. This all sounds like a lot of added weight- which the Q team will already be behind the eight-ball on with the other teams siding in the 3Di camp, and therefore unlikely to be a production solution. 

More likely, the over-sized batten/spar near the foot, is a camber inducer of some sort, with the purchases going towards the main boom, driving camber into the lower section of the main twin skins.

When you think of a wing sail, the foil section shape is unchanged tack-to-tack. rather the pivot points, and rotation create the camber, and the surface shape is not 2d sail smooth as depicted in the illustration. Camber and twist are induced via controls limiting or invoking pivot in face of force applied to the particular section of the wing.

I would expect any real attempt of twin skin sail setups to be true uniformly twin skin from luff to leech with some camber and twist control battens or otherwise integrated throughout the span.

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1661724249_14.2-11-18TwinskinSRW.jpg.488692ebc4e5cf36104c0e46ff55fde2.jpg

Maybe the trailing edges is not fixed together to enable NYYC to have a better wing shape?

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5 hours ago, Herfy said:

Interesting article.  They claim that it can take off in 9 knots of wind 

Compared with 13 kts in AC75’s preliminary evaluation, IIRC. But are The Mule’s foils ballasted?

 

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4 hours ago, Xlot said:

Compared with 13 kts in AC75’s preliminary evaluation, IIRC. But are The Mule’s foils ballasted?

 

They must be...... no way could you sail that boat without ballast. And to get the numbers that have been thrown around they will certiny have needed some.

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"The Mule will be packed for transit to a warmer Florida venue where testing will soon resume..."

Well, that answers that question

"...as they await the launch of Boat 1 in late April or May 2019, a date dependent upon the arrival of supplied parts from overseas."

I had heard that one of the suppliers charged with supplying a common part to all competitors is running behind schedule, in which case this would impact all teams equally. 

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