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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Question is do you need to get more oil than 6 can provide? And if your 6 are bigger fitter and better than their 8 and using a more efficient set up then it’s a one way discussion

there was an Instagram story that showed one of INEOS on a 20min grind test he averaged over 400w and the last 30 seconds was up at 475w. That suggests a significantly higher number could be produced in a burst in light wind to build pressure to pump the rig quickly 

That does not make sense.  If you can find 6 bigger, stronger grinders, then get 8 of them.  Grinders do not grow bigger and stronger in the UK then any place else in the world.  If you only need 6 to produce enough oil, then all of the teams will only use 6.  Grinders and winches have been around for a long time, it is not a new technology.   If UK has decided that they can get along with only 6 grinders, then that’s fine, but I doubt that they have discovered some amazing new technology that none of the other teams can’t figure out.

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9 hours ago, waterboy42 said:

You don't have a relative in Western Australia? 

Spotted tonight when I was out for dinner.. uncanny likeness.. ;)

20210120_233539.jpg

We are everywhere!

WetHog  :ph34r:

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51 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

So, reading some above posts it seems that AM has two possibilities: allow a longer ease of the runners or avoid tack + bear away in strong winds. Let's hope to see that soon.

I don't know about the other teams.

I'm still not convinced that either the backstay or the rudder losing control were the sole reasons for the capsize. Both just before and after the bearaway they looked to have control of the boat, despite the heel.

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11 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Yep, a slow news day

 

biden.jpg

Am not that big a fan of how ‘military’ the ceremony pageantry was but overall it was a very decently-done inauguration and several spoke (and some sang) beautifully. Go USA! 

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21 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I'm still not convinced that either the backstay or the rudder losing control were the sole reasons for the capsize. Both just before and after the bearaway they looked to have control of the boat, despite the heel.

Yes, but the heel was caused by more power than RM, so either they did not ease the sail enough or they did not bear away fast enough.

However, when the see the nice circle of the wake I don't think they could have made a shorter turn, they only remains 1) opening the sail or 2) having a short straight line after the tack to gain speed and bear away quickly, IMO.

It will be interesting to see how they proceed next time, and I don't think we will be alone to watch !

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8 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Yes, but the heel was caused by more power than RM, so either they did not ease the sail enough or they did not bear away fast enough.

However, when the see the nice circle of the wake I don't think they could have made a shorter turn, they only remains 1) opening the sail or 2) having a short straight line after the tack to gain speed and bear away quickly, IMO.

It will be interesting to see how they proceed next time, and I don't think we will be alone to watch !

Yep, considering that they still had control well after rounding the mark, picking up a bit more speed before the bearaway might have made all the difference. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. :D

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2 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

From AM facebook page

am.jpg

Any guesses about what’s going on in this photo? 

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3 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Any guesses about what’s going on in this photo? 

They're all rubbing the butts against the wall!! WTF do you think they're doing??

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^ Painting out the graffiti? Didn't it say, "Make America Great Again", or some such madman ramblings.

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48 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Any guesses about what’s going on in this photo? 

Making a mould?

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1 hour ago, MaxHugen said:

Yep, considering that they still had control well after rounding the mark, picking up a bit more speed before the bearaway might have made all the difference. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. :D

W'll know soon :)

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Any guesses about what’s going on in this photo? 

I don't know... but it doesn't look like the "Battery Gate" hole location...?!

One of the laminators does look like Jesse Pinkman, so I'm guessing they are glassing in the payload on the newly purposed fast drug runner.
Apparently the Trump Cartel needs a new income stream to feed Ivanka's Prada habit and The Donald being refused Legal Aid..

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Any guesses about what’s going on in this photo? 

Making a mold for the replacement of the delaminated section forward of the foil mounts

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Am not that big a fan of how ‘military’ the ceremony pageantry was but overall it was a very decently-done inauguration and several spoke (and some sang) beautifully. Go USA! 

Lets hope Donald will be back in 2024 for MAGA V2!

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1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

A few more

 

 

 

am3.jpg

Ouch, painful. Hammer and rusty chisel vs high-tech carbon composite... There weren't enough holes on the boat?

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You can see that the Yankee Doodles have plugged the hole. Just the installation of the FCS from boat B1. I wouldn’t be surprised if there in the water by Wednesday. 

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4 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

That does not make sense.  If you can find 6 bigger, stronger grinders, then get 8 of them.  Grinders do not grow bigger and stronger in the UK then any place else in the world.  If you only need 6 to produce enough oil, then all of the teams will only use 6.  Grinders and winches have been around for a long time, it is not a new technology.   If UK has decided that they can get along with only 6 grinders, then that’s fine, but I doubt that they have discovered some amazing new technology that none of the other teams can’t figure out.

I'd linked to another article about this a couple of days ago.

https://www.seahorsemagazine.com/161-content/november-2020/967-life-at-80-rpm

 

INEOS actually does have new grinder tech.

I know from personal experience that I can grind far more efficiently, by myself, in my preferred direction, at my preferred RPM. When big power is needed, then 2up.  But since they are moving oil. I could easily see 6 grinder stations operating at max efficiency out performing 4 grinder stations being driven by 8.

Also, if you watch AM, their grinders seem notchy.  I dont know how else to describe it.  Lots of start/stop sequences and lots of exertion required to get the handles moving again. The stops aren't long enough to be breaks.

 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Any guesses about what’s going on in this photo? 

image.png.3939fa555937e451294210a8dbe420a5.png

Looks like rolling dough for cookies. Either that or repairing the hull. Hard to tell.

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6 minutes ago, zillafreak said:

image.png.3939fa555937e451294210a8dbe420a5.png

Looks like rolling dough for cookies. Either that or repairing the hull. Hard to tell.

Looks like there is a whole other team of laminators on the other side of the mirror or is that a pigment of my imagination?  Kind of inside outy.

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2 hours ago, southseasbill said:

Lets hope Donald will be back in 2024 for MAGA V2!

Not from inside a cell..

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2 hours ago, erdb said:

Ouch, painful. Hammer and rusty chisel vs high-tech carbon composite... There weren't enough holes on the boat?

Well, at least I can say now that tools I use are on same level as ones used by Americas Cup teams.

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5 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

That does not make sense.  If you can find 6 bigger, stronger grinders, then get 8 of them.  Grinders do not grow bigger and stronger in the UK then any place else in the world.  If you only need 6 to produce enough oil, then all of the teams will only use 6.  Grinders and winches have been around for a long time, it is not a new technology.   If UK has decided that they can get along with only 6 grinders, then that’s fine, but I doubt that they have discovered some amazing new technology that none of the other teams can’t figure out.

There's some other footage featuring manifolds and hydraulics 

 

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4 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

A few more

am2.thumb.jpg.f29c53155d81773288615625e5f2360a.jpg

am5.jpg

am4.jpg

am3.jpg

Those AM boys should slow down a bit or the Italians will protest them for working too hard!!B)

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4 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

From AM facebook page

am.jpg

Typical youngsters.  They've missed the hole.

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1 hour ago, tDot said:

I'd linked to another article about this a couple of days ago.

https://www.seahorsemagazine.com/161-content/november-2020/967-life-at-80-rpm

 

INEOS actually does have new grinder tech.

I know from personal experience that I can grind far more efficiently, by myself, in my preferred direction, at my preferred RPM. When big power is needed, then 2up.  But since they are moving oil. I could easily see 6 grinder stations operating at max efficiency out performing 4 grinder stations being driven by 8.

Also, if you watch AM, their grinders seem notchy.  I dont know how else to describe it.  Lots of start/stop sequences and lots of exertion required to get the handles moving again. The stops aren't long enough to be breaks.

 

Honda have been refining their DCT since 2009

 

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15 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

Honda have been refining their DCT since 2009

 

I'm pretty sure it's not a dual clutch.  It sounds like the Harken is similar to a traditional motorcycle clutch,  actuated by electronics instead of a cable. 

The Dual in the one version of the Harken relates to the 2nd (Overdrive) gear.  Not a dual clutch.

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6 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

That does not make sense.  If you can find 6 bigger, stronger grinders, then get 8 of them.  Grinders do not grow bigger and stronger in the UK then any place else in the world.  If you only need 6 to produce enough oil, then all of the teams will only use 6.  Grinders and winches have been around for a long time, it is not a new technology.   If UK has decided that they can get along with only 6 grinders, then that’s fine, but I doubt that they have discovered some amazing new technology that none of the other teams can’t figure out.

It makes sense when there is a Max weight limit for the crew. 

but ok INEOS Have it all wrong, struggling for hydro through all the races and have inefficient grinding pedestals and positions.. 

Does that suit you? 

I wonder if Luca Devoti had it wrong too? An article on farevela discussing their set up. 

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Great to hear they are ahead of schedule..! We need all boats firing in this regatta IMO...! 

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6 hours ago, Indio said:

They're all rubbing the butts against the wall!! WTF do you think they're doing??

They're consolidators , they get the air out and make sure the resin is all the way into the cloth.  that looks like theyre making a mould to be to takeaway and make a bigger piece 

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6 minutes ago, Neverwas said:

They're consolidators , they get the air out and make sure the resin is all the way into the cloth.  that looks like theyre making a mould to be to takeaway and make a bigger piece 

Yes I buy that, I would even go further and say that it is just a choppy splash. The colour looks that way, the strands of glass on the laminators gloves, the guy wearing the mask to help against styrene etc.

Certainly not carbon fibre.

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5 hours ago, Don said:

Making a mold for the replacement of the delaminated section forward of the foil mounts

Delaminated?

Isn't that a bit of an understatement?

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6 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Delaminated?

Isn't that a bit of an understatement?

I think its one of those irregular verbs

My boat underwent a non-linear unintended reformation event

Your boat suffered some delamination

His boat got a bloody big hole

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Last night I rewatched the light airs race between AM and UK from the stern cameras. You do learn more about the boats from those views. One thing that I found interesting was that it was easier to pick up mistakes that the British crew made. The reason was because of the good aspects of the UK crew that everyone has talked about. They are so clear about what they are intending that when there is a mistake or it doesn't work you can tell. With the AM crew there is more of an aimless discussion so when they then do something you aren't really sure whether it was what they agreed or not. The Brits are far more concise and clear. Great to see.

One thing I found surprising on the UK boat was how little they seemed to adjust this magical new outhaul/inhaul. When they were tryin to get back up on the foils I was expecting them to power up the main but it stayed fairly flat all the way through. When foiling I would have expected it to be that flat, whereas from what I have seen of the NZ boat their main is always deeper, which seems to be right for getting up on the foils, but not getting max VMG when on there.

 

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7 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

^ Painting out the graffiti? Didn't it say, "Make America Great Again", or some such madman ramblings.

Make America Float Again

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9 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Any guesses about what’s going on in this photo? 

Dunno but it looks like Pete Burling's got himself in there helping again

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2 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Last night I rewatched the light airs race between AM and UK from the stern cameras. You do learn more about the boats from those views. One thing that I found interesting was that it was easier to pick up mistakes that the British crew made. The reason was because of the good aspects of the UK crew that everyone has talked about. They are so clear about what they are intending that when there is a mistake or it doesn't work you can tell. With the AM crew there is more of an aimless discussion so when they then do something you aren't really sure whether it was what they agreed or not. The Brits are far more concise and clear. Great to see.

One thing I found surprising on the UK boat was how little they seemed to adjust this magical new outhaul/inhaul. When they were tryin to get back up on the foils I was expecting them to power up the main but it stayed fairly flat all the way through. When foiling I would have expected it to be that flat, whereas from what I have seen of the NZ boat their main is always deeper, which seems to be right for getting up on the foils, but not getting max VMG when on there.

 

Agreed the side by side aft camera views are best to see the difference in crewing, trimming and flight control. I bet rival teams are heavily into studying the opposition techniques. 

You can see how and when the helm changes, with the audio "my wheel" occasionally. How quickly the boat is turned, the timing and the speed of the FCS up and down, the jib tack and set, the traveller movement, the twin skins of the main adjustment and of course the difference in the trim of the foot of the main with and without booms - and how messy (AM) and effective the foot of the sail is in sealing to the deck. 

 

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3 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

 

You can see how and when the helm changes, with the audio "my wheel" occasionally. 

 

That was one of the areas  that GB are so clearly much better IMO. Every time they tack there is a clear pattern of "my trim", "my wheel" etc. Really crisp, concise and precise. AM wasn't anywhere near as clear

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On 1/19/2021 at 9:18 PM, Sailbydate said:

Good work. Any secrets discovered, I wonder?

There will be a full debriefing after folding AM’s sail. 

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14 hours ago, waterboy42 said:

Like I mentioned, Nathan blurts out that the backstay wasn't released also, then continues commenting on it afterwards and he has plenty of AWS experience. Ken is President of the company that has supplied every AC Challenger and Defender for the last 30yrs with their sails, the last 10yrs or so of which have been Apparent Wind Foilers , so I think we should give him a little credit for knowing how they work... Note that they are not saying it wasn't released enough... but that it wasn't released at all.

I challenge anyone to watch that rounding and find a point where you can see that it is eased on the rounding. Many high performance dinghys don't have a backstay (maybe that's why the AWS sailors forget about them..)

The Italian guys that comment on the Cup sailing queried if there was a hydro method for releasing and that maybe it didn't release because they were down on power. This would seem very dangerous if you can't twist off or depower because you're out of hydro.

Not saying it is the one and only factor, but I believe it substantially reduced their chance of a successful rounding..

The problem with that theory is that hydraulics work the opposite way. It doesn’t require hydraulic pressure to ease the runners. 

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11 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

That does not make sense.  If you can find 6 bigger, stronger grinders, then get 8 of them.  Grinders do not grow bigger and stronger in the UK then any place else in the world.  If you only need 6 to produce enough oil, then all of the teams will only use 6.  Grinders and winches have been around for a long time, it is not a new technology.   If UK has decided that they can get along with only 6 grinders, then that’s fine, but I doubt that they have discovered some amazing new technology that none of the other teams can’t figure out.

It could be a matter of how you train your grinders. Do you train them for short bursts on intensity or train them for continues grinding? 1500m race vers 400m race sort of thing.

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10 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Any guesses about what’s going on in this photo? 

Rewiring the electrics? 

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5 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

It makes sense when there is a Max weight limit for the crew. 

but ok INEOS Have it all wrong, struggling for hydro through all the races and have inefficient grinding pedestals and positions.. 

Does that suit you? 

I wonder if Luca Devoti had it wrong too? An article on farevela discussing their set up. 

Do you have the link?

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

That was one of the areas  that GB are so clearly much better IMO. Every time they tack there is a clear pattern of "my trim", "my wheel" etc. Really crisp, concise and precise. AM wasn't anywhere near as clear

They are into doing "drills". Stays in the brain and the muscles. Drills take out you having to think about it. Which means you can use the ram to be thinking about other stuff.

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6 hours ago, Indio said:

Those AM boys should slow down a bit or the Italians will protest them for working too hard!!B)

So they had the circular rough service multi-pin connectors and then completely defeated any sealing properties by running additional cables through rubber grommets.  And the electronics aren't potted.  No wonder the dunking killed the FCS.

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I think too much emphasis is being put into the audible comms we can hear.  Some boats/teams are quiet and some chatty.

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Just now, sailman said:

I think too much emphasis is being put into the audible comms we can hear.  Some boats/teams are quiet and some chatty.

My comments were not at different amounts of chat, but of different quality of it

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3 hours ago, Redreuben said:

Make America Float Again

Based on recent pics and press release it looks like it's gonna happen.  Simply incredible....

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53 minutes ago, dullers said:

Do you have the link?

Its on face book, I  am not linking it from mine because there as some crazy as fuck stalker types here and I don't have face book on my computer 

but if you search Farevela  you will find it, its 2 days old

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29 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Based on recent pics and press release it looks like it's gonna happen.  Simply incredible....

This will be the come-back from hell if they get up and win the AC to reclaim the Auld Mug. The entire team will be feted for years and should be rewarded financially as well. 

I wonder if they're sneaking in some newer mods under cover of the repairs. Really looking forward to a successful re-launch of Patriot. 

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29 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Its on face book, I  am not linking it from mine because there as some crazy as fuck stalker types here and I don't have face book on my computer 

but if you search Farevela  you will find it, its 2 days old

Interesting. He seems fairly confident that the UK are (capable of) generating more power from 6/4 than the others are from 8/6.

As someone said, it doesn't matter who produces more power, as long it is enough. But doing so with fewer grinders leaving more people to sail the boat does seem to be working so far

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12 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

^ Painting out the graffiti? Didn't it say, "Make America Great Again", or some such madman ramblings.

Missed opportunity if they dont paint "ouch" or something similar to place of repair. Overused joke, but it is still fun every time.

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9 hours ago, tDot said:

I'd linked to another article about this a couple of days ago.

https://www.seahorsemagazine.com/161-content/november-2020/967-life-at-80-rpm

 

INEOS actually does have new grinder tech.

I know from personal experience that I can grind far more efficiently, by myself, in my preferred direction, at my preferred RPM. When big power is needed, then 2up.  But since they are moving oil. I could easily see 6 grinder stations operating at max efficiency out performing 4 grinder stations being driven by 8.

Also, if you watch AM, their grinders seem notchy.  I dont know how else to describe it.  Lots of start/stop sequences and lots of exertion required to get the handles moving again. The stops aren't long enough to be breaks.

 

It looks like anyone can use these winches, not just UK.  They have an "AC-75" sized model and the picture is of two grinders using the same pedestal.  I guess I didn't realize how crude the design of the typical winches were (I have not ever had the pleasure of sweating over one...).  

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13 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Am not that big a fan of how ‘military’ the ceremony pageantry was but overall it was a very decently-done inauguration and several spoke (and some sang) beautifully. Go USA! 

Not everything changed for better yesterday...

f18c9bd8-5046-4226-8cb5-b9ebb5fbee0d.jpg.e1a663f48a87729099f51c7987e29132.jpg 

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

The problem with that theory is that hydraulics work the opposite way. It doesn’t require hydraulic pressure to ease the runners. 

The runners are on hydraulic rams, and have a certain amount of throw. The runner was eased all the way, but with the trav all the way down before they tried to bear away when the main sheet (another ram) was dumped the mid-leech was pressed all over the leeward runner.

no one forgot to ease it, it was out as far as it would go.

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1 hour ago, enigmatically2 said:

My comments were not at different amounts of chat, but of different quality of it

Team dynamic and performance isn't about what you can what you can hear it is about how they work together.  Some require the input others do not, there is no right or wrong way, it is the results that matter.

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1 minute ago, sailman said:

Team dynamic and performance isn't about what you can what you can hear it is about how they work together.  Some require the input others do not, there is no right or wrong way, it is the results that matter.

Yes people are different, yes the best way to makes thing work can be different. That doesn't mean that any way is as good. Some are bad. And to me the current AM communication is bad. Though I agree the results matter- and with that evidence I rest my case

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An example of what I am talking about can be heard on day2 at the start. There was nothing said at all on AM about time to the line. You can argue that Deano doesn't need the input, but in that case I'd say he plainly does. He is sailing the boat. Someone else should be looking at their time and distance screens telling him he was early. But they didn't

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What input do you need if you are late, and you know you are late?

Do you need to say,  “ Late to the line in 3-2-1. Still late.”   

SHC

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3 hours ago, Norcal said:

The runners are on hydraulic rams, and have a certain amount of throw. The runner was eased all the way, but with the trav all the way down before they tried to bear away when the main sheet (another ram) was dumped the mid-leech was pressed all over the leeward runner.

no one forgot to ease it, it was out as far as it would go.

So the discussion between the guy setting up the runner system and the sailor was “ well how much travel do you want on this? Not much really, we only let the main out a bit at the windward mark, and it comes back in when we get back to speed”

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Sycophant. 

What does TE think? Any other has beens you could get an opinion from? What about you?

Count the chase boats, there's a red one, a black one, that's 2, ummm?.......

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9 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Delaminated?

Isn't that a bit of an understatement?

In the rocket business they call it a "rapid unscheduled disassembly" or RUD for short :lol:

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4 minutes ago, nav said:

What does TE think?

TE suggested during his Tuesday show that AM’s issues include hydraulics, supposedly that’s making ‘insider’ rounds. Which, as THutch already admitted, would make the rebuild a bigger challenge, if that was discovered. 

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1 hour ago, Steve Clark said:

What input do you need if you are late, and you know you are late?

Do you need to say,  “ Late to the line in 3-2-1. Still late.”   

SHC

Hahahaa. I miss you Steve.

Even down here in NJ there is a lack of truly genius snarky people

 

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2 hours ago, Steve Clark said:

What input do you need if you are late, and you know you are late?

Do you need to say,  “ Late to the line in 3-2-1. Still late.”   

SHC

But he was early to the box and plainly didn't realise until very late. A quiet word 30s out would have made a big difference

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

TE suggested during his Tuesday show that AM’s issues include hydraulics, supposedly that’s making ‘insider’ rounds. Which, as THutch already admitted, would make the rebuild a bigger challenge, if that was discovered. 

In other news water is wet and the sun is hot... 

What terrific insight. Was that Magnus giving his input? :lol:

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It still amazes me that some here can't accept that TE is full of shit and is not a source for  anything other than made up rumors "one hears". Give me more of the Italian-duo who actually provide some interesting analysis and theories in between all the umms and ahhs.

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Hydraulics were fine as a closed loop, Just need to be flushed. J-boxes, switch plates, panels and all wiring is being replaced, this is what will hold them back from on water testing. 

Wed-Thursday next week, we should see her out the door for a tow test. Hopefully sooner

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14 hours ago, Pertsa said:

Well, at least I can say now that tools I use are on same level as ones used by Americas Cup teams.

Somebody used some adhesive to bond something (like a hyd line?) to the underside of that lip? The best way to break that bond is to shear it with a sharp chisel typically.

And yes with the laminating, that's a splash.

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

In other news water is wet and the sun is hot... 

I saw you commenting during TE’s show, where else have you heard ‘inside scoops’ about AM’s hydraulics? It was not very specific but he’s spoken to several NYYC folks, two of them are yacht designers. 

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15 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

I saw you commenting during TE’s show, where else have you heard ‘inside scoops’ about AM’s hydraulics? It was not very specific but he’s spoken to several NYYC folks, two of them are yacht designers. 

That’s interesting firstly I haven’t commented on his senile ramblings for  weeks  secondly trying to out peoples identity on here comes with a lengthy ban.. you really want to go there? 

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6 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

That’s interesting firstly I haven’t commented on his senile ramblings for  weeks  secondly trying to out peoples identity on here comes with a lengthy ban.. you really want to go there? 

Oops, was for sure not wanting to ‘out’ you - my apologies. 
 

But my point remains, TE does have an entertaining show and has some decent inside-scoop contacts, it’s both good fun and informative, he knows the game far better than most any of us here. Funnily, the FB groups are now more fun than here too, although without some of the experience of SAAC posters. 

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^ classic..

If I had a dollar for every time you walk back some loose statement, then append your walk with "but my point remains", I'd be a lot richer.

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23 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Oops, was for sure not wanting to ‘out’ you - my apologies. 
 

But my point remains, TE does have an entertaining show and has some decent inside-scoop contacts, it’s both good fun and informative, he knows the game far better than most any of us here. Funnily, the FB groups are now more fun than here too, although without some of the experience of SAAC posters. 

And my point remains. I wasn’t commenting on his show.. 

 

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4 hours ago, Steve Clark said:

What input do you need if you are late, and you know you are late?

Do you need to say,  “ Late to the line in 3-2-1. Still late.”   

SHC

LOL....very funny.

 

Alternatively

TH " The screen you are looking at is telling you are late to the line"

DB : Copy That.

 

 

On a more serious note. Mozzy sails analysis was spot on about tactics and comms on AM vs Ineos. 

TH " I would not be opposed to a gybe here"  and DB kept going.  Mere suggestions.

 

GS " We want the right gate for that pressure ....."

BA " Copy that good pressure right"

GS is much more emphatic and clearly trusted

 

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8 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Its on face book, I  am not linking it from mine because there as some crazy as fuck stalker types here and I don't have face book on my computer 

but if you search Farevela  you will find it, its 2 days old

Thanks found it. It is a good site. 

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Just occurred to me that odd TH is to port, so when they are trying to cross a stbd tacker, both have instructed view. TH may be far enough fwd to see in the marginal case but still odd

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On 1/21/2021 at 5:53 AM, zillafreak said:

So ahh de Italians a thinka that a the hole isa fromma a large objecta thata was fell throughah de hull anda isa on a de bottom ofa the sea.  I think so too

 

Terry Hutchinson was on NewstalkZB this morning talking to Mike Hoskings and gave a clearer explanation for the hole than he did at the presser.

Earlier this week I got messages sent to me from someone who had got information from an "inside source" that the cause of the hole was the "flying battery" hypothesis.  I said that was BS and didn't make sense for a number of reasons and would infer that AM's Skipper Terry Hutchinson was lying.  I see that someone also posted a video from the two Italians saying it was the "flying battery."

My personal theory had been (the short version) that the forces exerted by the foot planting of the foil/foil arm transmitted considerable force upwards into the hull when the boat was coming down.  That energy would flex the hull.  When the foil went rapidly from the foot plant planing phase to digging in more forces were transmitted into the hull causing deflection of the hull.  Inwards aft of the foil arm and outwards between the arm and the bow akin to ripping a leg off a turkey.  Initially I didn't understand Terry's guillotine analogy in the presser where he mixed that analogy with the force of the water.  I couldn't see how the water acted as a guillotine.  

However on the radio this morning he talked specifically about the ribs in the boat acting as the guillotine(s).  That I understand and fits with the forces and where they would be transmitted to in the hull.  The ribs sliced the hull when the hull flexed be it on the outward flex or when the hull try to rubber band back into shape.  The "flying battery" "loose cargo" theory is crap.

Another analogy I drew was where you have a blister pack of lozenges.  If you consider each lozenge a panel in between ribs and the outside of the blister pack as the skin of the hull when you hold the blister pack at each end and flex in and out the skin will break but if you localise that flex at one lozenge (panel) then the lozenge also pops out.

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