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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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44 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

You think Onorato is going to lose a chance to get his son racing for the Cup in Auckland?  And that Azzurra or Eduardo Recchi is going to allow Bertelli - or worse yet Onorato - to get all the italian press?  I think this thing is taylor made for an italian team to go and make some impressions.  None of them will win though!  Whoever has Guillaume Verdier will be fighting against whoever wins between the team with Marcelino Botin and the team with VPLP, and Italy doesn't have any of them.

That's my form guide 3.6 years out. Mark it down!

For posterity so

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23 minutes ago, nav said:

It's only half a shit load, if he was talking Kiwi dollars.

He was talking Euro. "Some one will pay 160 million to win it". I thought he was talking about Lazza!

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53 minutes ago, 33jesus said:

Has anyone (formally) signed up Botin and VPLP yet?  I know they did the TP52's so I'd naturally assume NYYC has them?

Interesting to see which way the go, the TP is Botin but Bella Mente is Judel/Vrolijk

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56 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Dennis Conner: New York Yacht Club will bring big budget to America's Cup

"The event is going to be spectacular and everyone is looking forward to seeing how it's going to work out," Conner said.

"I think it's wonderful. The event needs to have a few competitors that are strong and can challenge Team New Zealand. Because they are so good we need an exciting challenge. The New York Yacht Club being part of it will add to the drama. I suspect the money generated from the New York Yacht Club and the DeVos team Quantum Racing, they'll be a big budget group similar to Prada [Italian syndicate Luna Rossa]. They'll give Prada a good run for the right to win the Prada Cup.

"We all look forward to see how they develop the new boat with the wing and sail and mainsail and the possibility of them flying downwind will be very interesting. Certainly be more interesting than watching a couple of catamarans race around in Bermuda. It's wonderful to see the cup getting back to its roots."

"The New York yacht club has been part of that and they'll do a good job. The Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron will get along with them. It's all good, good, good."

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11930120

NYYC's entry alone is worth all the heartache of the last 3 editions, and would have been one consideration for Dalton in going back to monohulls. That it also delivers one big public bitch-slap across Ellison's face is a bonus!

What was looking like an LR cruise through the CSS has now become a tough elimination series...

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Ok hoggie.  given the way online discussions have devolved into nicknames and political wars are characterized by idiots calling people stupid nicknames, i recoil at the laziness of calling people by silly names.

 

Hmmm

"Alan, please meet Terence. Terence meet Alan"

Or

"Clean meet Casper"

 

Yeah....sorry...Im with Hog. Casper just works better.

Anyway......Terence has been called a whole lot worse than Casper when he was a screaming redhead on J24s.  I remember one name that stuck for a while.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

NYYC's entry alone is worth all the heartache of the last 3 editions, and would have been one consideration for Dalton in going back to monohulls. That it also delivers one big public bitch-slap across Ellison's face is a bonus!

What was looking like an LR cruise through the CSS has now become a tough elimination series...

Yep agree. LR and NYYC is a massive boost for this edition of AC.

I say bring it on, bring your best, TNZ are up for the challenge!  - (and that is how AC should be)

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I could see the financing and coming effort behind this NYYC Challenge putting some prospective teams off. Even the other two, LRBAR and LR must be doing a pretty hard swallow.

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

'Casper' is plenty cool.

Warning - thread drift:

Q: What's the difference between Michael Jackson and Casper?
A: One is pale and scares kids and the other is a friendly ghost.

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1 hour ago, Barnyb said:

Dennis Conner: New York Yacht Club will bring big budget to America's Cup

" It's wonderful to see the cup getting back to its roots."

"The New York yacht club has been part of that and they'll do a good job. The Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron will get along with them. It's all good, good, good."

 

 

Monohulls

New York Yacht Club

Drunken quotes from DC

Getting the Americas Cup back to it roots

 

Why do I get this sinking feeling?

Please NZ, dont let this slip back into the yawn fest of yesteryear.

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6 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Warning - thread drift:

Q: What's the difference between Michael Jackson and Casper?
A: One is pale and scares kids and the other is a friendly ghost.

I remember an interview where in part of it he did actually joke about all the sunscreen he uses - it was good natured and very friendly. He would find Casper a funny nick.

Shoot, 'DogZilla' was coined on SA and the name found its way from team members on up and even into the NY Times.

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25 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

I could see the financing and coming effort behind this NYYC Challenge putting some prospective teams off. Even the other two, LRBAR and LR must be doing a pretty hard swallow.

I can see it being motivation. The difficulty of winning, versus the glory of triumph is a huge motivation for entering. Guys like Ainslie thrive on the challenge of beating the best the world has to offer. There is NO WAY LR as CoR will think twice about anything. This is going to be the best AC since 95.

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5 minutes ago, sclarke said:

I can see it being motivation. The difficulty of winning, versus the glory of triumph is a huge motivation for entering. Guys like Ainslie thrive on the challenge of beating the best the world has to offer. There is NO WAY LR as CoR will think twice about anything. This is going to be the best AC since 95.

LR is for sure locked in, although there's very little in the Prot to describe what if anything they would owe if they dropped out - despite all the sponsorship rights written into it. It's also a fact that Prada stock has been plummeting for years (GFC) but it's been taking a real beating even this past quarter. Still, I think P$B will drop some amount on it and try make a go of it.

USA-wise, the reason for the (BMQRA? BMQR? BMQ? Can we please make it Q? :) ) announcement this early will likely set off a race for Design and Build talent; any other USA team better act fast or fuggedaboutit.

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Will the helmsman be an American, and is there any chance it would be Bora or Morgan?

So much good talent in America, I really hope there is a large % of Americans, and Americans driving the bus and calling the shots.

Make the America's Cup Great Again!

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2 hours ago, 33jesus said:

Has anyone (formally) signed up Botin and VPLP yet?  I know they did the TP52's so I'd naturally assume NYYC has them?

I would be quite surprised if Devos did not have him signed-up a while ago, he has done the last 3-4 Q boats, maybe all of them.

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3 hours ago, WetHog said:

Oh come on.  You are not new to this.  A big challenger stable would be fabulous but it doesn't matter how many teams want to challenge on October 5, 2017, it matters how many are on the start line in January 2021.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

Sub OTUSA for NYYC and it looks like one less than what was interested in the beginning of AC35.

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13 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

I would be quite surprised if Devos did not have him signed-up a while ago, he has done the last 3-4 Q boats, maybe all of them.

Good reason for ETNZ to opt for a canter: as I recall Botín wasn't too successful with that ...

 

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I have fond memories of TH sailing for Old Dominion Univerisity as a supporter of that young sailing program in Norfolk. I feel some pride that the CEO of the next American challenger is from my small school and that I can get behind an American entry for the first time in far too many years!

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5 minutes ago, Chainlocker said:

I have fond memories of TH sailing for Old Dominion Univerisity as a supporter of that young sailing program in Norfolk. I feel some pride that the CEO of the next American challenger is from my small school and that I can get behind an American entry for the first time in far too many years!

Nice!

Good to see you back with us, CL.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Anyone have the current crew lists for BM and for QR, maybe with the common sailors hilited?

That's a good question.

Haven't looked at crew makeup of either boat for ages but Terry has a lot of loyal and top level Kiwi mates who regularly sail with him.

It's no inconceivable that a few Kiwi blokes will be doing a reverse commute to establish residency in some attractive and convenient SoCal sailing town in order to qualify as American crew under the new Protocol.

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7 hours ago, Paddy said:

So Amway founder Rich DeVos returns to the America's Cup fray three decades after his first run at it.

   "Richard DeVos was the chairman of the New York Yacht Club's America II syndicate,
    which fell just short of the semifinals in the 1987 challenger eliminations in Perth, Australia."

Also worth noting in passing, both NYYC and RNZS have released well-written and informative announcements.

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

Good reason for ETNZ to opt for a canter: as I recall Botín wasn't too successful with that ...

 

GD professed his displeasure with combustion engines on a boat.  With that in mind how do you cant the canter?  ;)

Cyclors of course.  Never mind.  :lol:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

NYYC's entry alone is worth all the heartache of the last 3 editions, and would have been one consideration for Dalton in going back to monohulls. That it also delivers one big public bitch-slap across Ellison's face is a bonus!

What was looking like an LR cruise through the CSS has now become a tough elimination series...

Serious question with no agenda. Why is NYYC entering a bitch-slap in the face for Ellison. That statement makes no sense to me. They couldn't have entered the cup during the "Ellison Era" because GGYC was the defender and you cannot have a club from the same country as a challenger. Even if there had been defender trials, it would have been for the right to represent GGYC and NYYC wouldn't have had anything to do with it. It seems totally logical that once GGYC lost the cup that a club like NYYC might launch a challenge, so why is it a bitch-slap. :unsure:

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

NYYC's entry alone is worth all the heartache of the last 3 editions, and would have been one consideration for Dalton in going back to monohulls. That it also delivers one big public bitch-slap across Ellison's face is a bonus!

What was looking like an LR cruise through the CSS has now become a tough elimination series...

Yeah because the last two times the NYYC challenged they provided fierce competition.

fcifx4.jpg

Maybe Casper calling the shots will change NYYC's fortune, but it can be argued the last time the NYYC was competitive in the Cup was in 1983.

WetHog  :ph34r:  

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

LR is for sure locked in, although there's very little in the Prot to describe what if anything they would owe if they dropped out - despite all the sponsorship rights written into it. It's also a fact that Prada stock has been plummeting for years (GFC) but it's been taking a real beating even this past quarter. Still, I think P$B will drop some amount on it and try make a go of it.

USA-wise, the reason for the (BMQRA? BMQR? BMQ? Can we please make it Q? :) ) announcement this early will likely set off a race for Design and Build talent; any other USA team better act fast or fuggedaboutit.

"if they dropped out" and "try make a go of it" aren't applicable. They are as much in the Americas Cup as the sun is likely to rise tomorrow. 

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29 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Yeah because the last two times the NYYC challenged they provided fierce competition.

fcifx4.jpg

Maybe Casper calling the shots will change NYYC's fortune, but it can be argued the last time the NYYC was competitive in the Cup was in 1983.

WetHog  :ph34r:  

We're in the 21st century...

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33 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

Serious question with no agenda. Why is NYYC entering a bitch-slap in the face for Ellison. That statement makes no sense to me. They couldn't have entered the cup during the "Ellison Era" because GGYC was the defender and you cannot have a club from the same country as a challenger. Even if there had been defender trials, it would have been for the right to represent GGYC and NYYC wouldn't have had anything to do with it. It seems totally logical that once GGYC lost the cup that a club like NYYC might launch a challenge, so why is it a bitch-slap. :unsure:

"We have confidence the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron, represented by Emirates Team New Zealand, will host a world-class regatta that honors the spirit, tradition and majesty of this great event," said Commodore Philip A. Lotz .

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3 minutes ago, sclarke said:

"if they dropped out" and "try make a go of it" aren't applicable. They are as much in the Americas Cup as the sun is likely to rise tomorrow. 

They have not yet concluded financial considerations with ETNZ. That could get interesting, behind the scenes anyway.

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2 minutes ago, Indio said:

We're in the 21st century...

So was this:

fcifx4.jpg

And this:

4 minutes ago, NZL4EVER said:

529771916.jpg

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

(BMQRA? BMQR? BMQ? Can we please make it Q? :) ) 

I say we follow Clean's lead, Green Donut or The Donut Challenge.  :lol:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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So the question was who is on BM and on QR.  Source is BellaMenteRacing.com and 52 Super Series Quantum Racing page.  Bold text are sailors on both QR and BM.

Quantum Racing Bella Mente
Doug DeVos – Helsman Hap Fauth – Helmsman
Bora Gulari – Helm/Strat Adrian Stead – Strategist
Terry Hutchison – Tactician Terry Hutchinson – Tactician
Michele Ivaldi – Strat Mike Sanderson – Offshore Helm
Ian Moore – Nav Ian Moore – Nav
Lorenzo Mazza – Trimmer Sean Clarkson – Trimmer
Warwick Fleury – Main Trimmer Morgan Trubovich – Trimmer
James Dagg – Upwind Trimmer Skip Baxter – Trimmer
Greg Gendell – Bow James Dagg – Headsail Trimmer
Jared Henderson – Mid Bow Michele Cannoni – Bow
Rodney Ardern – Pit Sean Couvreux – Bow
Romolo Ranieri – Grinder Keats Keeley – Bow
Piet van Nieuwenhuijzen – Grinder Matt Smith – Pit
Sean Clarkson – Runner Joe Fanelli – Grinder
Rodney Daniel – Runner Frederico Giovanelli – Grinder
James Lyne – Coach Brian MacInnes – Grinder
  Craig Monk – Grinder
  Rob Ouellette – Grinder
  Joe Spooner – Grinder
  Jim Turner – Grinder
  Romolo Ranieri – Grinder/Floater
  Pete Henderson – Runners
  Whitney Curtin – Floater
  Ollie Dickens – Floater
  Piet van Nieuwenhuijzen – Floater
  James Lyne – Coach

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Also keep in mind the Quantum Racing "Junior" team - Gladiator has the following Bella Menters.

Ed Baird
Morgan Trubovich
Sean Couvreux
Joe Spooner

 

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36 minutes ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

Also keep in mind the Quantum Racing "Junior" team - Gladiator has the following Bella Menters.

Ed Baird
Morgan Trubovich
Sean Couvreux
Joe Spooner

 

I'd be surprised if Ed Baird is not involved in some way.  He was the last helmsman to win the cup in monos.

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2 minutes ago, Bad Andy said:

I'd be surprised if Ed Baird is not involved in some way.  He was the last helmsman to win the cup in monos.

My guess would be a coach or boat 2 driver, outside chance primary driver. He & THutch worked well on the Q boat.

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With all the resources and experience behind both Bella Mente and Quatum, the NYYC Challenge is going to be a very formidable competitor.

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6 minutes ago, Indio said:

With all the resources and experience behind both Bella Mente and Quatum, the NYYC Challenge is going to be a very formidable competitor.

Or to quote a4...a loser, no hoper team...

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

With all the resources and experience behind both Bella Mente and Quatum, the NYYC Challenge is going to be a very formidable competitor.

I agree. I personally have a hunch the Kiwis are good enough to defend successfully, but i'm at least more excited about Team USA than in the last few cups!

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46 minutes ago, ronnie_simpson said:

I agree. I personally have a hunch the Kiwis are good enough to defend successfully, but i'm at least more excited about Team USA than in the last few cups!

Great to see more Americans engaging with a Challenge they can identify with. With their Maxi72 experience, I'd imagine they'd have accumulated a lot of test data which could effectively put them ahead of the pack - including the CoR and Defender. There hasn't been this level of early anticipation and excitement in the AC for quite a while - and we're only 3 months past the last one.

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58 minutes ago, ronnie_simpson said:

I agree. I personally have a hunch the Kiwis are good enough to defend successfully, but i'm at least more excited about Team USA than in the last few cups!

This.

I rooted for the Kiwis to take the cup from Larry and good on them for what they're doing.

I'm now back to being a USA fanboy.  Would love to see another team or two from the West coast.

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11 minutes ago, Indio said:

Great to see more Americans engaging with a Challenge they can identify with. With their Maxi72 experience, I'd imagine they'd have accumulated a lot of test data which could effectively put them ahead of the pack - including the CoR and Defender. There hasn't been this level of early anticipation and excitement in the AC for quite a while - and we're only 3 months past the last one.

Yep I am fizzing about the NYYC entry.

Their early indication of entry has provided the regatta a real boost. 

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The issue isn't going to be the sailors. Good ones help, but the real challenge is setting up an AC team from scratch which is very different from anything any of them have done before. There is a whole level of organisational problems you don't get with a normal big boat campaign. At a guess, Hutch will go from a sitiation where he might be managing say 20 people on a big boat campaign to managing 100 people on an AC team.

Even more difficult is setting up a design team from scratch. Even with top class designers, the team that wins this time will only need to develop their own proprietary software just like ETNZ and others did last time around. Without the benefit of wind tunnel and tank tests, this cup will be won inside of the computer. The software alone cannot win, because you need the design ideas to analyse, but without it you are stuffed. So few have this sort of software and nobody has it outside of the AC world there is a real premium on the design team. Any current software is already out of date for what will be needed this time around. The more I have learnt about this the more I realise why first time teams are at such a disadvantage. I expect that ETNZ has a significant advantage in this area that will make them hard to beat.

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14 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 i recoil at the laziness of calling people by silly names.

OK Clean.

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8 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

I would be quite surprised if Devos did not have him signed-up a while ago, he has done the last 3-4 Q boats, maybe all of them.

Botin has done all Q-boats, but Hap (BM has had JV the last 2 boats (don't forget, JV was designer for all Alinghi boats).

However Botin was also lead designer for the ETNZ IACC v4 & v5 boats as well as the ETNZ TP52 & VO70...

That said, Botin is doing the 2018 TP52 for DeVos/QR

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3 hours ago, Barnyb said:

 

3 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Because it is not really a good pic without those yellow lines!

 

fcifx4.jpg

ROFL.

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7 hours ago, Indio said:

Great to see more Americans engaging with a Challenge they can identify with. With their Maxi72 experience, I'd imagine they'd have accumulated a lot of test data which could effectively put them ahead of the pack - including the CoR and Defender. There hasn't been this level of early anticipation and excitement in the AC for quite a while - and we're only 3 months past the last one.

You know something is afoot when Indio is saying nice things about American's or an American Challenge.  <_<

Be vigilant.  :lol:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Bob Fisher on New York Yacht Club’s America’s Cup challenge

What triggered the challenge, according to Commodore Lotz, was the confidence the club held in the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron to host a world-class event in the spirit and majesty wherein it has been held in the past.

 

Fauth, the owner of the 72 foot Bella Mente, has been sailing most of his life, but put the sport on hold while he created a career in finance.  Now he races regularly in the Mini-Maxi 72 class. De Vos, the President of the Amway Corporation has sailed all his life and among his interests is a stakeholding in Quantum Sails. He has previous history with the Cup – as Chairman of the NYYC’s America II syndicate in the 1987 Cup in Fremantle.

.....

It is firmly believed that the New York YC’s challenge is only the first of at least three challenges from the USA, with one from California (not from the Oracle camp) and the other from the Great Lakes.  Others are brewing elsewhere in the world – the Land Rover BAR challenge from the Royal Yacht Squadron will be among the early clubs to declare and a second Italian one from Vincenzo Onorato’s Mascalzone Latino syndicate is already indicated.  Many more are waiting in the wings for what promises to me the best since 2007.

http://www.yachtsandyachting.co.uk/americas-cup/bob-fisher-new-york-yacht-clubs-cup-challenge/

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Bad Andy said:

I'd be surprised if Ed Baird is not involved in some way.  He was the last helmsman to win the cup in monos.

and AARP could step up as a sponsor.

The problem with US entries is that we havent seen whether any US Mega Wealth is going to back a US challenge under the current protocol. Devos money, real estate millionaires etc all have limited means. All of Amway's public quoted stocks have been going from top left to bottom right. The US business is a closely held private corporation but you got to suspect that their pyramid business model is being crushed by Amazon. They face difficult times.

Dont get me wrong...the Devos family are very wealthy and can easily afford their private yacht racing....but their business is facing huge challenges and I wonder if that affects their big budgets.

The Mega private wealth (public companies have a hard time justifying hundreds of millions on a niche sport) in America is in tech and e-commerce. There are plenty of tech' billionaires who sail.  But does a "blue blazer" retro event interest them?  

It may do. Jim Clarke likes super fast monohulls but he is also typical in liking to play around at the leading edge of the technology of the sport (Foiling cats intrigue him).

 

Now, to be fair, if they stay out of the AC during its "back to the future" era, that may level the playing field for the other nations. If Sergey (or the other Larry) decided to sponsor an AC entry, everyone else would be outspent.   So perhaps its a good thing if they yawn and stay away.

 

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32 minutes ago, IPLore said:

the Devos family are very wealthy and can easily afford their private yacht racing....

I see, their money comes from MLM. I didn't know. So now it isn't just their politics I can despise.

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2 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Bob Fisher on New York Yacht Club’s America’s Cup challenge

http://www.yachtsandyachting.co.uk/americas-cup/bob-fisher-new-york-yacht-clubs-cup-challenge/

Quote

It is firmly believed that the New York YC’s challenge is only the first of at least three challenges from the USA, with one from California (not from the Oracle camp) and the other from the Great Lakes.  Others are brewing elsewhere in the world – the Land Rover BAR challenge from the Royal Yacht Squadron will be among the early clubs to declare and a second Italian one from Vincenzo Onorato’s Mascalzone Latino syndicate is already indicated.  Many more are waiting in the wings for what promises to me the best since 2007.

I hope Onorato is back challenging for the Cup simply because he is just the right guy to stir up the drama Clean has suggested would develop with 2 Italian challenges.  And his AC32 boats looked cool.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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I heard from a fairly reliable source that the NYYC team is going to tie Gary Jobson to the mast and have him blow hot air into a chute they're calling "The Whomper"

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

I hope Onorato is back challenging for the Cup simply because he is just the right guy to stir up the drama Clean has suggested would develop with 2 Italian challenges.  And his AC32 boats looked cool.

WetHog  :ph34r:

He might be held in high regard by some, but after recent events, many involved with the J70 fleet consider Onorato to be a cheat, liar and unwanted trouble maker. There is still a potential Rule 69 against him for his behaviour and also a potential law case for deformation by Onorato. Overall, assuming the reports were true, he showed himself to be a very nasty bit of work.

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looking at the NYYC challenge, Hap Fauth surely is not early as ostentatiously wealthy as the Devos or any of the Silicon Valley boys.. 

His family yacht, Whisper

WHISPER_PG_PHOTO_7.jpg?format=1500w

His racing yacht, Bella Mente

Bella-8320-lg.jpg

His little catboat and summer cottage in the background

13528804_10154231011985758_1447961899980

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at http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup---New-York-Yacht-Club-makes-a-smart-early-move/157816

(.......)

For New York Yacht Club and BMQRA, there was no point concealing their hand until January 2018. They are better to get their intentions out there and start attracting and signing the pick of available US America's Cup team talent.

The two other teams who have indicated to Team New Zealand that they will be entering, Land Rover BAR (GBR) and Groupama Team France (FRA) don't have the same issues.

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On 10/5/2017 at 3:47 PM, 2Newts said:

Right. At this point, talk is (relatively) cheap. There's no boat design brief to work off of, there's some uncertainty as to the location and therefore date of the match, there are a lot of details to be filled in on the "Prada Cup," and most importantly the entry fee is not yet due. At most, the expense is in nailing down lead talent. One could probably spend no more than $1,000,000 between now and Christmas and not fall (any further) behind the curve. 

When the dollars get real, expect some to beg off. I put Camas in that group. Probably Alinghi too. 

The real question will be, of the remaining interested teams, who can raise the necessary funds to win, and who can't. And of those who can't, who will go ahead with the campaign just to stay in the game (LRBAR maybe) and who might stay in recognizing that this round is just for learning more and preparing for the next. 

I hate to be Nelly Negative, but didn't Dalton say he thinks it will take $150 million for a winning campaign in his interview with Clean? That's a shitload of money. Not even the NYYC group is guaranteed of getting there. 

With the nationality rules the way they are...it will be expensive. Paying for competitors to move etc., paying for competitors to commit to a long campaign, then just the fact NZ is about as far away as you can get for most of the challengers.

I see less teams entering (part of the def strategy? less is better for them)

The ones who do take part will need a significant war chest backed by -i can only assume- a VERY healthy ego and net worth of some individual.

 

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30 minutes ago, oobilly said:

The ones who do take part will need a significant war chest backed by -i can only assume- a VERY healthy ego and net worth of some individual.

It's a bit disconcerting that DeVos even needed Fauth's help but perhaps it is for reasons beyond financial, like for the agreement helping to ease the sharing of Hutch and other sailing/design/admin talent.

The big old granddaddy of eye-watering sailing-interested wealth, by orders of magnitude, is the Larry with an E... precedeeded by about 60 B's. But for better or worse the comments made by RC today suggest RC has not been tapped yet, which strongly suggests LE has lost interest - instead of upping his interest three-fold as he could so easily have decided, on basically a just a whim. No reason at all for LE to go light this time, if he was 'revenge' minded.

Between ETNZ with their already-established systems and tech know-how and home-field lower costs and Emirates backing and guaranteed Match presence etc, versus Luna Rossa, BMQ and BAR who have little to none of any of that, it still looks reasonably safe so far for ETNZ.

So, agreed.. No really big shark in this yet unless EB gets all excited about his chances or some Russian chooses to unload a really big one on it.

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On 10/4/2017 at 5:27 PM, ~Stingray~ said:

I feel sorry as much for how some people pine for 30 and 40 yr old history instead of looking to the future.

Sadly for some, age and progression matters; DC still displays some wisdom but he's NOT going to be helming a boat off Fremantle any time soon.

Good prediction, since DC placed 14/21 in the 2017 6mR Worlds 2017 this September in Vancouver, BC, and DNF the regatta. He may have met his (ageing) Waterloo.

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15 minutes ago, Captain Gigi said:

Good prediction, since DC placed 14/21 in the 2017 6mR Worlds 2017 this September in Vancouver, BC, and DNF the regatta. He may have met his (ageing) Waterloo.

I happened to listen to a two-part podcast by DC yesterday about that event, it was kinda fun and interesting. Long story short, he had plenty of excuses - as he said with humor - for the result. A 70 yr old boat, and the fact the mast broke mid-regatta among them. His description of riding down to the boat on the dock using the King of Spain's golf cart was amusing too.

But agreed; we are not going back to AC helms from 4 effing decades ago! 

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20 minutes ago, Captain Gigi said:

Trump endorsed Conner's book, DeVos's relation is Betsy DeVos, who uttered such revealing lineage in "The New Yorker" today: DeVos Defends Trump: “Would a Moron Hire Me?”

It's easy to switch allegiances for thinking sailors.

Conner and Trump collaboration.jpg

The half-hull in that photo behind DC may be the same one as is on the wall in the Moron Office in Trump Tower. Interesting.

Trump had a casino north somewhere in NJ at the time (edit: probably financed by loan sharks in the Kremlin ;) ) with hopes of getting an AC Defense hosted at that venue, and he paid for the NY ticker-tape parade to draw attention to the AC and to DC's '87 Fremantle win-back, for that hoped-for promotional casino venue reason. 

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12 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The half-hull in that photo behind DC may be the same one as is on the wall in the Moron Office in Trump Tower. Interesting.

Trump had a casino north somewhere in NJ at the time, with hopes of getting an AC Defense hosted there, and he paid for the NY parade to draw attention to the AC and to DC's '87 Fremantle win-back, for that promotional reason. 

We just know it will only get too interesting from here on. Trump will re-brand the America's Cup, make it great again, his way. Just watch. And you do know that Trump bots read this "Sailing Anarchy" website, yes? An easy identifier is the exact usage of phrases and ideas taken right from anarchists' comments and appear in sound bites from the WH within hours or days. #WatchWhatYouSay

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So by all means dont let facts get in the way of your fucking whining, but in case anyone gives a shit

Dick DeVos is married to Betsy.

Doug DeVos is involved with Quantum Sails and the NYYC AC Challenge.  Dick <> Doug.

And take your fucking whining about Trump to PA.

Muppets....
MS

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1 minute ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

So by all means dont let facts get in the way of your fucking whining, but in case anyone gives a shit

Dick DeVos is married to Betsy.

Doug DeVos is involved with Quantum Sails and the NYYC AC Challenge.  Dick <> Doug.

And take your fucking whining about Trump to PA.

Muppets....
MS

Nuts away, Mr. Squirrel! Once a DeVos, always a DeVos, whether a Dick or a Doug or a Betsy. They're all related.

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^^ about the DC photo:  at https://www.google.com/amp/us.blastingnews.com/sports/2017/02/donald-trump-was-concerned-with-yacht-races-30-years-ago-today-001450951.amp.html

Lief mentions Trump late in the article: "Real estate magnate Donald Trump drew tentative plans for a Feb. 14 ticker-tape parade down Manhattan's Fifth Avenue. He also said he would ask Conner," the winning skipper of the America's Cup, "to hold the next America's Cup races in Atlantic City, N.J."

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3 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

^^ about the DC photo:  at https://www.google.com/amp/us.blastingnews.com/sports/2017/02/donald-trump-was-concerned-with-yacht-races-30-years-ago-today-001450951.amp.html

Lief mentions Trump late in the article: "Real estate magnate Donald Trump drew tentative plans for a Feb. 14 ticker-tape parade down Manhattan's Fifth Avenue. He also said he would ask Conner," the winning skipper of the America's Cup, "to hold the next America's Cup races in Atlantic City, N.J."

And we know what happened in Atlantic City. Also history, like the AC races of decades ago.

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24 minutes ago, Captain Gigi said:

And we know what happened in Atlantic City. Also history, like the AC races of decades ago.

Billions in debt and bankruptcies, in Atlantic City. US-based banks stopped lending money to the Trumpster starting soon after, he resorted to being in the Hok to other countries beginning around then.

That DC book-cover photo may be a touch PA but there's plenty that's AC and about NY and about AC history about it too, let alone the rest..

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Really like the book cover, huh, ~Stingray~? It wasn't a 'winner' for me, but, hey, each to her/his own. Me, I'm now off to do Sukkot on a sailboat. Shalom.

Sukkah on a sailboat 2017.jpg

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The half-hull in that photo behind DC may be the same one as is on the wall in the Moron Office in Trump Tower. Interesting.

Trump had a casino north somewhere in NJ at the time (edit: probably financed by loan sharks in the Kremlin ;) ) with hopes of getting an AC Defense hosted at that venue, and he paid for the NY ticker-tape parade to draw attention to the AC and to DC's '87 Fremantle win-back, for that hoped-for promotional casino venue reason. 

To clear some air here, DC went to Trump looking for backing, even proposing to name the boat 'Trump Card' and holding some races in Atlantic City, as they were getting pretty desperate for funding. He brought the model to Trump as part of his pitch and apparently he thought it was a gift from DC. He did not support the effort but did organize and fund the ticker-tape parade in NY. It was in DC's book 'Comeback' where he describes the whirlwind trip back from Freo to SD, to NY. He was given the big fur coat he wore during the parade from a supporter of the team, after noting how he really liked it, before the series. They guy told him that you win the Cup you get the coat. Promise fulfilled for the parade.

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7 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

He might be held in high regard by some, but after recent events, many involved with the J70 fleet consider Onorato to be a cheat, liar and unwanted trouble maker. There is still a potential Rule 69 against him for his behaviour and also a potential law case for deformation by Onorato. Overall, assuming the reports were true, he showed himself to be a very nasty bit of work.

Let me be clear, I want him to enter because he is an "un-wanted trouble maker" and his AC32 boats looked cool.  Thats it.  

I like fun AC drama.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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8 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

 and also a potential law case for deformation by Onorato

People do seem to be getting bent out of shape over this.

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8 hours ago, ezyb said:

The J70 affair is very much a he said/she said scenario.  Here's Onorato's view FWIW:

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/AUDI-J70-WORLD-CHAMPIONSHIP.pdf

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, who the hell wants someone around who'd write a letter like that, less alone make it public? Contemptible.

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

Let me be clear, I want him to enter because he is an "un-wanted trouble maker" and his AC32 boats looked cool.  Thats it.  

I like fun AC drama.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

I don't know Hog,there are already two challengers to whom I can only wish doom and unmitigated failure. Not sure I could handle a third.

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11 hours ago, ezyb said:

The J70 affair is very much a he said/she said scenario.  Here's Onorato's view FWIW:

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/AUDI-J70-WORLD-CHAMPIONSHIP.pdf

No its'not a he said/she said at all. Go have a look at the thread that covers this matter. I don't have any skin in the game, no affinity in any way and I was a fan of Onorato and his team. From all i have been told and have read, what I believe is that the letter is littered with falsehoods. He launches a personal attack against the organising club's commodore who he has a long standing personal vendetta against even though he had nothing to do with the decisions that went against Onorato. Those decisions were not made by the yacht club but by an independent organising committee and by an IJ. At the heart of the whole thing is the simple fact that Onorato spent a shed load of money getting his son's boat illegally modified, cried when he got caught out. It left the J70 fleet hoping never to see him again.

The personal attack in the last 2 paragraphs could well lead to both a deformation law suit and a rule 69 investigation against Onorato. You simply cannot launch a scathing personal attack on the commodore of an organising yacht club like that. Those last paragraphs have nothing to do with the matter at all.What Onorato is trying to do is to publicly humiliate somebody he has a problem with by raising things that are totally unconnected to the event, yacht club or the J70 class. Even if the allegations made earlier in the letter were true, the last bit totally destroys all credibility. What it really achieves is that it shows everybody what a thoroughly nasty man Onorato is and there is no place in sailing for that sort of thing.

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Remember the Dalton clause has gone so we need all the scoundrels, clowns, idiots, cheap talkers, and controversial players as possible. This is the AC after all, where most of the action takes place off the water between people with ego's too big, standing on their wallets, to prove that they have the biggest boom!

Bring it on!

There ain't no circus without elephants and clowns!

 

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On 10/6/2017 at 11:10 AM, A Class Sailor said:

Serious question with no agenda. Why is NYYC entering a bitch-slap in the face for Ellison. That statement makes no sense to me. They couldn't have entered the cup during the "Ellison Era" because GGYC was the defender and you cannot have a club from the same country as a challenger. Even if there had been defender trials, it would have been for the right to represent GGYC and NYYC wouldn't have had anything to do with it. It seems totally logical that once GGYC lost the cup that a club like NYYC might launch a challenge, so why is it a bitch-slap. :unsure:

 

On 10/6/2017 at 11:44 AM, Indio said:

"We have confidence the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron, represented by Emirates Team New Zealand, will host a world-class regatta that honors the spirit, tradition and majesty of this great event," said Commodore Philip A. Lotz .

I was 10 when NYYC lost the AC so I took you at face value. I got a very interesting response from somebody who raced in the AC back during the NYYC reign. His view is that NYYC went to the greatest lengths to totally screw over every single challenge, they bent, pushed and modified the rules whenever it looked like they might have a difficult challenge and they "owned" both the RC and the jury. Remember the famous quote "protesting NYYC in the AC is like complaining about your wife to your mother-in-law". They even tried everything to stop Australia 2 including trying to get the boat thrown out because of a claim the keel was illegal. People were unsure whether NYYC would even hand over the trophy and it is believed some club members attempted to persuade the club not to do so.

As my friend said, if the implication of NYYC was a bitch-slap to Ellison, it was a real case of pot calling the kettle black. 

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