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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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11 minutes ago, WetHog said:

You are a good story teller Clean.  Please share it with us.  Don't need specifics.  How about the Cliffs Notes version?

WetHog  :ph34r:

Let's just say I was at the final IACC event in history at La Maddalena just up the road from YCCS, an event that had more to do with Vincenzo doing a political favor for Berlusconi than anything about yachting.  That event is when the relationship went off the rails, and there is unfortunately nothing more I can say about that - unless we run into each other at a boat show or something.

And thanks for the compliment.  I try.

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Is the NYSC entering a team? They've got good funding and as much history in the cup as anyone else... 8)

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15 minutes ago, Nutta said:

Is the NYSC entering a team? They've got good funding and as much history in the cup as anyone else... 8)

The 50 paces clash between Clean and Jobson on the steps outside Cahn's NYSC court hearing in Albany was an absolute classic! :D

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9 hours ago, Monkey said:

I know NYYC pulled a lot of shitty moves to hold on to the Cup, but protesting the wing keel was perfectly reasonable. You’d have to be a fool not to challenge something radical that pushes the limits of the rule. 

Im glad the Aussies won though. That was when the AC finally became interesting. 

No. It was interesting long before 1983.

Who could forget Gretel and Dame Pattie? But things did go hyper after, Australia ll.

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9 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

If you knew the story, the letter wouldn't bother you much at all.

Yes it would. If you dislike a club so much, don't sail events there. Personal vendetta against clubs by public letter is not a classy move, even though it seems to be the SA way.

 

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Yes it would. If you dislike a club so much, don't sail events there. Personal vendetta against clubs by public letter is not a classy move, even though it seems to be the SA way.

 

Bullshit! A public letter is the best platform to present one's version of events in the face of potentially damaging misinformation and innuendo propagated into the public domain.

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18 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Let's just say I was at the final IACC event in history at La Maddalena just up the road from YCCS, an event that had more to do with Vincenzo doing a political favor for Berlusconi than anything about yachting.  That event is when the relationship went off the rails, and there is unfortunately nothing more I can say about that - unless we run into each other at a boat show or something.

And thanks for the compliment.  I try.

I get the jist and thank you.  As for if we run into each other, the list of things I would ask you, it would be a long list.  You probably don't want to run into me. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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9 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

No. It was interesting long before 1983.

Who could forget Gretel and Dame Pattie? But things did go hyper after, Australia ll.

Don't forget Gretel II, that was a classic.

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THutch is going to be good leading this team if the initial interviews are any indication, he has been good as a part of the Quantum TP52 team.

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2 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

THutch is going to be good leading this team if the initial interviews are any indication, he has been good as a part of the Quantum TP52 team.

Agree. I like his comments on bringing in the younger home-grown sailors into their AC36 campaign to build for the future.

Of the four competitors so far, none of them will have any problems complying with what is effectively the 100% (20% passport-qualified, 80% residence-qualufied) Nationality requirement which seems to have flown over most commenters' heads.

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I predicted foiling cats in the AC way before it happened but I never thought I'd live to see the New York Yacht Club back in the game-wow!

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3 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

THutch is going to be good leading this team if the initial interviews are any indication, he has been good as a part of the Quantum TP52 team.

Agree, he displays wisdom in both of those interviews.

Especially in the video's response to the nat question, my reading of it is that the move towards using US sailors will be emphasized more in a possible subsequent campaign, than in the coming one. That may also help explain him forecasting the team being in NZ starting 12 months ahead of AC36 instead of starting sooner; presumably they will have significant presence in the US before that, perhaps residing and training out of Newport and/or Charleston and/or Florida depending the season.

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

Agree. I like his comments on bringing in the younger home-grown sailors into their AC36 campaign to build for the future.

Of the four competitors so far, none of them will have any problems complying with what is effectively the 100% (20% passport-qualified, 80% residence-qualufied) Nationality requirement which seems to have flown over most commenters' heads.

Well said on both points, that man.

It does seem that the AC has lost/skipped a generation with Alinghi/CNEV and AC35 coverage debacles. All the potential competitors seem to be intent on not losing another and want to promote sailing, rather than the sad money making actions of Oracle.

 

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12 minutes ago, laser 173312 said:

Well said on both points, that man.

It does seem that the AC has lost/skipped a generation with Alinghi/CNEV and AC35 coverage debacles. All the potential competitors seem to be intent on not losing another and want to promote sailing, rather than the sad money making actions of Oracle.

 

 

I particularly like 6.2.d) eligibility requirement for YC's:

"6.2.d): it must operate as a yacht club and have objectives consistent with the furtherance of yachting activities..."

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On 10/8/2017 at 7:18 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

Let's just say I was at the final IACC event in history at La Maddalena just up the road from YCCS, an event that had more to do with Vincenzo doing a political favor for Berlusconi than anything about yachting.  That event is when the relationship went off the rails, and there is unfortunately nothing more I can say about that - unless we run into each other at a boat show or something.

And thanks for the compliment.  I try.

I hate to be fussy, but wasn't the Dubai event the last IACC regatta? 

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8 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

I predicted foiling cats in the AC way before it happened but I never thought I'd live to see the New York Yacht Club back in the game-wow!

Why? Were you expecting OR to hol;d the cup forever, or at least for your lifetime? NYYC couldn't get back in the game while GGYC was the defender, but once they lost, I had expected NYYC would have been the first club in the USA that anybody would have wanted to challenge through. Add to that the wealth of its membership and I think it would have been a surprise of there had not been a challenge through NYYC.

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26 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

Why? Were you expecting OR to hol;d the cup forever, or at least for your lifetime? NYYC couldn't get back in the game while GGYC was the defender, but once they lost, I had expected NYYC would have been the first club in the USA that anybody would have wanted to challenge through. Add to that the wealth of its membership and I think it would have been a surprise of there had not been a challenge through NYYC.

I don't think it was that predictable .. NYYC did not challenge when Alinghi held the cup.

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1 hour ago, Terry Hollis said:

I don't think it was that predictable .. NYYC did not challenge when Alinghi held the cup.

Don't think there's much reason to disbelieve TE when he suggests NYYC just wanted to take a step back and reconsider their approach after 2003 (Alinghi's first defence).

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at http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2017/10/09/terry-hutchinson-waving-usa-flag/

Terry Hutchinson: Waving the USA Flag

Published on October 9th, 2017 

Terry Hutchinson has accrued a track record of being a winner. He gets involved in big-time keelboat racing programs and makes them better. It is now through his work as tactician for Hap Fauth’s Maxi72 Bella Mente and Doug DeVos’s TP52 Quantum Racing that has brought these two successful owners together, alongside New York Yacht Cup, to challenge for the 36th America’s Cup. Here Terry discusses this new campaign.

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14 hours ago, rgeek said:

Don't think there's much reason to disbelieve TE when he suggests NYYC just wanted to take a step back and reconsider their approach after 2003 (Alinghi's first defence).

The club had spent a ton of dough on the AC since '83 and had not seen much out of it. 4 slow boats in '87, one sunk boat in 2000, and a second sunk non-competitive boat in 2003. THutch was involved in '03 also, something I did not know before looking it up.

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Looking over old threads about the Court Crap I ran into this post in a thread about Casper leaving ETNZ after AC32 (also some good insults directed at me in that thread):

Quote

It has long been rumored that his boss this week has been planning on doing an AC campaign with the Quantum logo behind it. Maybe this is the start of that relationship. Plus DVD has a boat that is similar in size to these boats that they can use as a test platform.

That and with all the other AC owners jumping into the Med Cup for season, DVD is already there. Makes some sense. just have to figure out who the driver would.

- Altered Egos

So Devos and the Green Donut have been rumored to be going for the AC 10 years ago.   Hopefully that will translate into a competitive campaign right out of the box.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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3 hours ago, WetHog said:

Looking over old threads about the Court Crap I ran into this post in a thread about Casper leaving ETNZ after AC32 (also some good insults directed at me in that thread):

So Devos and the Green Donut have been rumored to be going for the AC 10 years ago.   Hopefully that will translate into a competitive campaign right out of the box.

WetHog  :ph34r:

There's a world of difference between planning to be in the AC for 10 years and actually BEING in the AC for 10 years.

Whilst they might very well be competitive, you will IMO have to wait for the next cycle before there is a realistic shot at the cup itself.

But they have to start somewhere and it is certainly good news that they appear to be doing just that.

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

There's a world of difference between planning to be in the AC for 10 years and actually BEING in the AC for 10 years.

Whilst they might very well be competitive, you will IMO have to wait for the next cycle before there is a realistic shot at the cup itself.

But they have to start somewhere and it is certainly good news that they appear to be doing just that.

Sure there is a difference between planning and being in the AC for 10 years, but in traditional AC's 1st year teams like LR, America One, Oracle and Alinghi have had success in their 1st years as Challengers with Alinghi having the ultimate success.  I am hoping, with 10 years of planning, that The Green Donut is competitive on the level of LR, America One and Oracle at least. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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6 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Sure there is a difference between planning and being in the AC for 10 years, but in traditional AC's 1st year teams like LR, America One, Oracle and Alinghi have had success in their 1st years as Challengers with Alinghi having the ultimate success.  I am hoping, with 10 years of planning, that The Green Donut is competitive on the level of LR, America One and Oracle at least. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

I just hope they don't turn out to be the disappointment for you that Orifice did.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

I just hope they don't turn out to be the disappointment for you that Orifice did.

Meh, I enjoyed AC33, and AC34 had its moments, but yeah AC32 was especially frustrating.  I wasn't emotionally invested in AC35 so no big deal.  ;)

I am under no illusions.  The Green Donut winning the Cup this cycle is wishful thinking, but I can live with a respectable USA team that makes at least the PC semi's.  I hope it happens.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

Meh, I enjoyed AC33, and AC34 had its moments, but yeah AC32 was especially frustrating.  I wasn't emotionally invested in AC35 so no big deal.  ;)

I am under no illusions.  The Green Donut winning the Cup this cycle is wishful thinking, but I can live with a respectable USA team that makes at least the PC semi's.  I hope it happens.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Sure, but I was referring to their conduct.

If your sports team behaves in such a manner as you have to pinch your nose to watch them, then it makes supporting them and being emotionally invested in them difficult to imposible.

So, hopefully they conduct themselves with some honour.

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8 hours ago, jaysper said:

Sure, but I was referring to their conduct.

If your sports team behaves in such a manner as you have to pinch your nose to watch them, then it makes supporting them and being emotionally invested in them difficult to imposible.

So, hopefully they conduct themselves with some honour.

Oracle didn't get to the pinch your nose level for me until the AC34 wound down to the Cup match but then The Comeback acted like a cheap body spray which hid the bad BO Oracle was developing for me.  After AC34 no amount of smell good could of masked the stench coming off Oracle for me.

With Casper running the show I expect a USA Challenger that will conduct itself with honor, us folk from Annapolis are honorable people, so long as the NYYC lets Casper and his crew do their thing.  That, and hopefully there will at least one more USA Challenger.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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On 10/12/2017 at 9:06 PM, WetHog said:

Meh, I enjoyed AC33, and AC34 had its moments, but yeah AC32 was especially frustrating.  I wasn't emotionally invested in AC35 so no big deal.  ;)

I am under no illusions.  The Green Donut winning the Cup this cycle is wishful thinking, but I can live with a respectable USA team that makes at least the PC semi's.  I hope it happens.

WetHog  :ph34r:

So what are the challenges that team Quantum/BellaMente/NYYC (or whatever their formal name becomes), and how do they overcome them:

1. Great sailors who meet the nationality/residency requirements. It seems probable to me that TH can hire a great team. Unclear to me how a green card or visa holder would get counted in the math of it all, but that seems like a problem that can be overcome. And it sure would be nice if there were a larger cadre of recent Olympic winners to choose from. But this challenge should be surmountable. 

2. High quality, reputable construction facility(s). Not an issue in the US of A. 

3. Year-round practice in-country? Yes, if they need it, no problem.

4. The best designers. Since nationality does not apply to the design team, the best designers are likely to go to the highest bidders. Which brings up the next point:

5. Having enough money. 

So again, the prospect of having a respectable team comes down to money. And I suspect you are right that this round is not about winning for the US team, but rather about laying the groundwork to win next cycle. We will have a major clue as to whether it will be respectable or not when the design team is announced. 

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2 hours ago, 2Newts said:

So what are the challenges that team Quantum/BellaMente/NYYC (or whatever their formal name becomes), and how do they overcome them:

1. Great sailors who meet the nationality/residency requirements. It seems probable to me that TH can hire a great team. Unclear to me how a green card or visa holder would get counted in the math of it all, but that seems like a problem that can be overcome. And it sure would be nice if there were a larger cadre of recent Olympic winners to choose from. But this challenge should be surmountable. 

2. High quality, reputable construction facility(s). Not an issue in the US of A. 

3. Year-round practice in-country? Yes, if they need it, no problem.

4. The best designers. Since nationality does not apply to the design team, the best designers are likely to go to the highest bidders. Which brings up the next point:

5. Having enough money. 

So again, the prospect of having a respectable team comes down to money. And I suspect you are right that this round is not about winning for the US team, but rather about laying the groundwork to win next cycle. We will have a major clue as to whether it will be respectable or not when the design team is announced. 

Money isn't the only issue.  Being able to use that money efficiently and bring together all aspects of the Challenge into a well oiled machine capable of competing for a place in the Cup match is the tallest order, IMO.  Casper has his work cut out for him.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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I think the NYYC Challenge will be very formidable. The mere fact that two owners have agreed to collaborate for a common target implies they have accepted the likely chain of command and roles separation which will be required to succeed. The common denominator is clearly Hutchinson, and putting him in charge of the sailing operations while presumably the two owners concentrate on funding and talent-scouting, etc should allow Hutch to concentrate on assembling a sailing team and preparing them for the Challenge. This Challenge won't be doing sausage sizzles to raise funds - they'll buy the entire herd and ranch!!

Ten years stewing on the docks means the NYYC Challenge has a lot of dry powder for AC36. I would suggest that when it became apparent that ETNZ was going to yank the Cup from the cheaters, NYYC would have secured the designer(s) they wanted, while Hutch probably already had sailors he wanted on first-right-of-refusal preliminary agreements. The NYYC should provide a stabilising overwatch to minimise any potential egocentric contretemps.

I would not be at all too unhappy to have NYYC v LR in the CSS Final. I can see NYYC as CoR in AC37 if ETNZ defends successfully in 2021.

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On 10/16/2017 at 12:22 PM, WetHog said:

Money isn't the only issue.  Being able to use that money efficiently and bring together all aspects of the Challenge into a well oiled machine capable of competing for a place in the Cup match is the tallest order, IMO.  Casper has his work cut out for him.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Any guesses on who Casper will go after as AC helmsman candidates?

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Any guesses on who Casper will go after as AC helmsman candidates?

One thing is for sure. It sure as fuck won't be Barker.

Given its a new class of boat, I don't see why they couldn't do what ETNZ did and pick someone young with no previous AC experience.

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

One thing is for sure. It sure as fuck won't be Barker.

Given its a new class of boat, I don't see why they couldn't do what ETNZ did and pick someone young with no previous AC experience.

:) 

Let's see.. 

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6 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

:) 

Let's see.. 

I like Barker, I really do.

But he is dripping in the pungent aroma of failure and if they were to hire him for the boat, I think you could safely rule them out as a competitive challenger.

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On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 3:22 PM, WetHog said:

Money isn't the only issue.  Being able to use that money efficiently and bring together all aspects of the Challenge into a well oiled machine capable of competing for a place in the Cup match is the tallest order, IMO.  Casper has his work cut out for him.

WetHog  :ph34r:

The NYYC had a lot of money and were the first team in Freo back in '85, but it did not get them far. It has to be used smartly with innovation and a crew that knows how to use it. Ask LE about that now.

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10 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

The NYYC had a lot of money and were the first team in Freo back in '85, but it did not get them far. It has to be used smartly with innovation and a crew that knows how to use it. Ask LE about that now.

It seems to me that Orifice won in AC34 because they had such a massive advantage by challenging using a multi hull with wing in AC33 and even then, they didn't win by much.

However, roll around AC35 they were thoroughly out thought by ETNZ and it would appear by Artemis also.

So yeah, it seemed that post AC33 that Orifice were on a constant downward trajectory through lack of innovation that only ended up costing them the cup in AC35, but almost cost them it in AC34.

If Lazza decided to take the same team into a challenge in AC36, unless some major change of culture took place, I don't think they would have a reasonable chance at winning the cup.

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32 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I like Barker, I really do.

But he is dripping in the pungent aroma of failure and if they were to hire him for the boat, I think you could safely rule them out as a competitive challenger.

I don't know... I'd say never count him out until he decides so himself - perhaps he could take the crown from JS as the greatest come-back king... ;-)

He hung in there in the AC50s and the new monos will probably remove the alleged young/reaction advantage making him more competitive again - arguably he's greater prowess in monos, but his sailing in AC34 and AC35 proved he is still reasonably versatile.

Having said that I agree that we won't see him helming, because if he elects to join in, I think he'd want to be off the boat now... or maybe he has one more in him?

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37 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

I don't know... I'd say never count him out until he decides so himself - perhaps he could take the crown from JS as the greatest come-back king... ;-)

He hung in there in the AC50s and the new monos will probably remove the alleged young/reaction advantage making him more competitive again - arguably he's greater prowess in monos, but his sailing in AC34 and AC35 proved he is still reasonably versatile.

Having said that I agree that we won't see him helming, because if he elects to join in, I think he'd want to be off the boat now... or maybe he has one more in him?

Barker is a world class sailor in the sense that there are probably only a few hundred sailors with more talent than him.

But if you are spending $100 Million on a campaign, you are NOT after someone in the top few hundred. You are after someone COMFORTABLY in the top 50.

Burling clearly meets that criteria and likewise Outteridge.

Jimmy? Probably not and Deano definitely not IMO.

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

I like Barker, I really do.

But he is dripping in the pungent aroma of failure and if they were to hire him for the boat, I think you could safely rule them out as a competitive challenger.

DB's a bloody solid driver. And if the afterguard are up to it and the designers on the money, my advice would be don't bet against him.

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11 hours ago, jaysper said:

I like Barker, I really do.

But he is dripping in the pungent aroma of failure and if they were to hire him for the boat, I think you could safely rule them out as a competitive challenger.

TFE's Sailing Illustrated posted a notice that DB is going to drive the Q TP52 next season.

https://www.sailingillustrated.com/single-post/2017/10/18/AC36-One-hears-Dean-Barker-NZL-will-skipper-the-Quantum-TP52-in-next-summers-Super-Series-will-Deano-skipper-NYYCs-2021-challenger

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54 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Strong signal there. Interesting!

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12 hours ago, jaysper said:

It seems to me that Orifice won in AC34 because they had such a massive advantage by challenging using a multi hull with wing in AC33 and even then, they didn't win by much.

However, roll around AC35 they were thoroughly out thought by ETNZ and it would appear by Artemis also.

So yeah, it seemed that post AC33 that Orifice were on a constant downward trajectory through lack of innovation that only ended up costing them the cup in AC35, but almost cost them it in AC34.

If Lazza decided to take the same team into a challenge in AC36, unless some major change of culture took place, I don't think they would have a reasonable chance at winning the cup.

Team New Zealand suffered the same fate back in the beginning of this millennium.  Losing to Alinghi can be blamed on the Tight Five but in actuality TNZ's boats were shit.  It stands to reason Oracle or One World would of beaten TNZ if they made the Cup final instead of Alinghi.

No matter what sport it is its hard to stay at the top, at the championship level.  Competitors are constantly looking for ways to beat you but, most importantly, its very hard to keep teams motivated and on their toes year after year or AC cycle after AC cycle.  Especially when top talent is constantly pouched by people with deep pockets.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Interesting, but considering The Green Donuts regular professional helmsmen, Bora Gulari, recently lost 3 fingers in a sailing accident we probably shouldn't read to much into DB being named helmsman of The Green Donut's TP52 at this point.

WetHog  :ph34r:  

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

Interesting, but considering The Green Donuts regular professional helmsmen, Bora Gulari, recently lost 3 fingers in a sailing accident we probably shouldn't read to much into DB being named helmsman of The Green Donut's TP52 at this point.

WetHog  :ph34r:  

Nothing against Bora, he is a top talent, but he did not seem to gel with the team in the few events he drove. Maybe more time would have corrected that, there were race wins and relative good race bright spots, but something seemed off. We'll have to see how this develops, maybe with the Olympic campaign something was planned ahead of time anyway.

No matter what I hope he heals well and can get back on the water soon.

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5 hours ago, WetHog said:

Team New Zealand suffered the same fate back in the beginning of this millennium.  Losing to Alinghi can be blamed on the Tight Five but in actuality TNZ's boats were shit.  It stands to reason Oracle or One World would of beaten TNZ if they made the Cup final instead of Alinghi.

No matter what sport it is its hard to stay at the top, at the championship level.  Competitors are constantly looking for ways to beat you but, most importantly, its very hard to keep teams motivated and on their toes year after year or AC cycle after AC cycle.  Especially when top talent is constantly pouched by people with deep pockets.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

Hoggie! Their boats were shit because the tight five fucked off.

If they hadn't, they most likely wouldn't have lost the cup and certainly Ernie wouldn't have won it. You need to realise that up until '03, ETNZ boats all had HUGE input from the sailing team (i.e. the tight five).

So implying that their shitty boats had nothing to do with losing the tight five is like trying to say that Tiger Wood's decline has nothing to do with his age.

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6 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Oh well, looks like we might be able to completely write NYYC off real soon.

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3 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Nothing against Bora, he is a top talent, but he did not seem to gel with the team in the few events he drove. Maybe more time would have corrected that, there were race wins and relative good race bright spots, but something seemed off. We'll have to see how this develops, maybe with the Olympic campaign something was planned ahead of time anyway.

No matter what I hope he heals well and can get back on the water soon.

You would know better than me in regards to TP52 goings on.  Ultimately, I hope The Green Donuts Challenge, or any US challenge for AC36, has an American at the wheel.  The only twang on a US boat should be from the Southern US not the Southern Hemisphere, IMO.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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5 minutes ago, WetHog said:

You would know better than me in regards to TP52 goings on.  Ultimately, I hope The Green Donuts Challenge, or any US challenge for AC36, has an American at the wheel.  The only twang on a US boat should be from the Southern US not the Southern Hemisphere, IMO.

WetHog  :ph34r:

I think some "bloody foreigners" is ok Hoggie - after all we have Ashby.

But Orifice, Artemis and Japan were just ridiculous.

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The NYYC and Bella Mente Quantum Racing are very excited to announce an exclusive agreement with Botin Partners - Naval Architecture to be our yacht designer for the 36th America's Cup. Few firms, if any, have had more recent success with large monohull designs. Details on the Club website (nyyc.org) or click the link in the comments.

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36 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

The NYYC and Bella Mente Quantum Racing are very excited to announce an exclusive agreement with Botin Partners - Naval Architecture to be our yacht designer for the 36th America's Cup. Few firms, if any, have had more recent success with large monohull designs. Details on the Club website (nyyc.org) or click the link in the comments.

Follow-on link

https://nyyc.org/news/2222-botin-partners-signed-ac

From there:

"One important factor is proximity," said Botin. "The boats need to have similar speeds and be capable of engaging in typical match-race maneuvers. A fast boat is desirable, but it should also be reactive at lower speeds. We would like to see upwind starts with all the pre-start strategy that goes with it. A light displacement monohull would be the perfect platform for these situations."

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14 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Hoggie! Their boats were shit because the tight five fucked off.

If they hadn't, they most likely wouldn't have lost the cup and certainly Ernie wouldn't have won it. You need to realise that up until '03, ETNZ boats all had HUGE input from the sailing team (i.e. the tight five).

So implying that their shitty boats had nothing to do with losing the tight five is like trying to say that Tiger Wood's decline has nothing to do with his age.

I implied that TNZ would of lost AC31 regardless of who they met in the Cup final because their boats were shit.

Also, Tiger's decline had nothing to do with his age.  It had to do with Tiger's obsession with US special forces after the death of his father:

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/15278522/how-tiger-woods-life-unraveled-years-father-earl-woods-death

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

I think some "bloody foreigners" is ok Hoggie

Some out of towners is ok,  but after the debacle that was Oracle Team USA, with one American on the team and defending in Bermuda, the face of any US challenger moving forward needs to be an American face, IMO.

WetHog  :ph34r:  

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4 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Some out of towners is ok,  but after the debacle that was Oracle Team USA, with one American on the team and defending in Bermuda, the face of any US challenger moving forward needs to be an American face, IMO.

WetHog  :ph34r:  

Me, I wish the principal designer were American instead of Spanish. But since the Prot got that part wrong.. It’s likely a great move.

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An older DB quote, from http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11935010

"I have always remained loyal to Team New Zealand. I could have gone a number of other times, to go and work for other teams. I had an approach from Alinghi, Luna Rossa, but for me it's never been about working for another team. It's not about the money. It's about bringing the America's Cup back to New Zealand."

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"  A light displacement monohull would be the perfect platform for these situations "

 

As expected, no mention of foils. You'll be lucky to get a canting keel. Meh

 

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31 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

An older DB quote, from http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11935010

"I have always remained loyal to Team New Zealand. I could have gone a number of other times, to go and work for other teams. I had an approach from Alinghi, Luna Rossa, but for me it's never been about working for another team. It's not about the money. It's about bringing the America's Cup back to New Zealand."

And that is why I respect the man, despite thinking that his time was up after 2013.

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

And that is why I respect the man, despite thinking that his time was up after 2013.

I forgot him mentioning having been recruited by Alinghi and LR in the past. Those would have been premier positions too. 

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

Also, Tiger's decline had nothing to do with his age.  It had to do with Tiger's obsession with US special forces after the death of his father:

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/15278522/how-tiger-woods-life-unraveled-years-father-earl-woods-death

WetHog  :ph34r:

 

Actually, Tiger's decline had more to do with the depth in young talent making it onto the PGA Tour, meaning he was no longer competing against the aging Duvals, Micklesons (to whose credit he's still competitive!!), Singhs, Prices etc. but lining up against fearless youngsters who hit the ball as long and longer than him. His pursuit of length off the tee has led to his problems with his knee, back, etc as he became a gym monkey trying to keep up with the kids.

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41 minutes ago, Indio said:

Actually, Tiger's decline had more to do with the depth in young talent making it onto the PGA Tour, meaning he was no longer competing against the aging Duvals, Micklesons (to whose credit he's still competitive!!), Singhs, Prices etc. but lining up against fearless youngsters who hit the ball as long and longer than him. His pursuit of length off the tee has led to his problems with his knee, back, etc as he became a gym monkey trying to keep up with the kids.

Actually read the story I linked.  His body has broken down because he started running 10+ miles in combat boots and getting the shit kicked out of him while taking survival training from a guy who trains Navy Seals because he wanted to be close to his dead father.  Not because he fears young PGA players out driving him.  He stopped giving a shit about golf when his father died, 10 years ago.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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10 hours ago, Barnyb said:

The NYYC and Bella Mente Quantum Racing are very excited to announce an exclusive agreement with Botin Partners - Naval Architecture to be our yacht designer for the 36th America's Cup. Few firms, if any, have had more recent success with large monohull designs. Details on the Club website (nyyc.org) or click the link in the comments.

Here we go. Let the arms race commence.

Designers, start your super computers. Whoo hoo. :D

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5 hours ago, WetHog said:

Actually read the story I linked.  His body has broken down because he started running 10+ miles in combat boots and getting the shit kicked out of him while taking survival training from a guy who trains Navy Seals because he wanted to be close to his dead father.  Not because he fears young PGA players out driving him.  He stopped giving a shit about golf when his father died, 10 years ago.

WetHog  :ph34r:

He never stopped trying to chase down Jack's record 18 Majors, his self-admitted motivation - the field just became too deep and he wasn't intimidating the young guns. and his game went to shit. Whatever motivation he had for the SEALs distraction, the fact remains he won 4 more Majors after his father's death and could easily have caught Jack's record in 2009-2010 where he contended in all the Majors, before all the crap about his extra-curricular activities came to light - and his game went south.

He openly admitted that he changed his swing with Haney because he wanted to keep up with the young guns, but his swing from his amateur days and in the early days when he turned pro was so violent that many specialists were impressed he lasted as long as he did before he started having problems with his body.

He is the best golfer the planet has ever seen, and the PGA Tour can thank him for bringing in the multi-million $$ prize money which all of them are enjoying now. Hope he returns to the winner's podium but may have to wait for the Senior Tour to do so.

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9 hours ago, Indio said:

He never stopped trying to chase down Jack's record 18 Majors, his self-admitted motivation - the field just became too deep and he wasn't intimidating the young guns. and his game went to shit. Whatever motivation he had for the SEALs distraction, the fact remains he won 4 more Majors after his father's death and could easily have caught Jack's record in 2009-2010 where he contended in all the Majors, before all the crap about his extra-curricular activities came to light - and his game went south.

He openly admitted that he changed his swing with Haney because he wanted to keep up with the young guns, but his swing from his amateur days and in the early days when he turned pro was so violent that many specialists were impressed he lasted as long as he did before he started having problems with his body.

He is the best golfer the planet has ever seen, and the PGA Tour can thank him for bringing in the multi-million $$ prize money which all of them are enjoying now. Hope he returns to the winner's podium but may have to wait for the Senior Tour to do so.

Read the article.  The truth will set you free. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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22 hours ago, Barnyb said:

The NYYC and Bella Mente Quantum Racing are very excited to announce an exclusive agreement with Botin Partners - Naval Architecture to be our yacht designer for the 36th America's Cup. Few firms, if any, have had more recent success with large monohull designs. Details on the Club website (nyyc.org) or click the link in the comments.

I think I called that one weeks ago, good find on the announcement.

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5 hours ago, WetHog said:

Read the article.  The truth will set you free. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

Thought your IQ might have improved after several years...

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On 2017-10-05 at 3:15 PM, nav said:

....he could give a shit - Americans

....he couldn't give a shit - the rest of the English speaking world

sort yourselves out.

Nationality isn't the issue. Should read:

....he could give a shit (or "could care less"): illiterate fools

....he couldn't give a shit (or "couldn't care less"): everyone else

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On 2017-10-05 at 5:34 PM, IPLore said:

Monohulls

New York Yacht Club

Drunken quotes from DC

Getting the Americas Cup back to it roots

 

Why do I get this sinking feeling?

Please NZ, dont let this slip back into the yawn fest of yesteryear.

Dunno your age, but the above post sounds like it comes from one of those ignorant Millenials with an attention span of < 20 seconds. 

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On 21/10/2017 at 6:36 PM, Moonduster said:

IQ peaks around age 22.

 

Ahh I remember being 22, your smart as fuck but basically have no clue what going on most of the time!

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On 2017-10-07 at 7:32 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

Leaving the fun of your unintended spelling error alone

Clean, considering your earlier post in this thread you are hardly in a position to lecture people about spelling errors.

On 2017-10-05 at 3:34 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

 I think this thing is taylor (sic) made for an italian team to go and make some impressions.

 

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2 hours ago, Svanen said:

Dunno your age, but the above post sounds like it comes from one of those ignorant Millenials with an attention span of < 20 seconds. 

AD/HD brigade, in other words.

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48 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Hutchinson hits big-time with appointment as CEO and skipper of America's Cup syndicate

http://www.capitalgazette.com/sports/navy_sports/ac-cs-midweek-meanderings-20171023-story.html

from there,

Hutchinson is now working hand in hand with Fauth and DeVos to secure additional funding for the campaign. While the principal owners have deep pockets, their personal wealth is not nearly enough to cover the enormous costs of an America’s Cup campaign, which will probably be in the range of $200-300 million for the 36thedition, which will be held off Auckland, New Zealand in 2021.

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

from there,

Hutchinson is now working hand in hand with Fauth and DeVos to secure additional funding for the campaign. While the principal owners have deep pockets, their personal wealth is not nearly enough to cover the enormous costs of an America’s Cup campaign, which will probably be in the range of $200-300 million for the 36thedition, which will be held off Auckland, New Zealand in 2021.

Well, that's a MUCH bigger number than GD estimated in his talk with Clean. I do suspect, however, that this range is where LR will be spending, so maybe that is what it will take to be competitive. Maybe $100 - $150 gets you an also-ran campaign to build experience for the next cycle.

Whatever the number, Fauth and DeVos have until the end of the year to have it raised or have a clear path to raising it. That's about 9 weeks to raise up to $260 million ($300 top range estimate less the $40 thats already in). 

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That budget may include running a program like what the BAR Academy has going on. Also from there,

“When you talk about winning and then defending in the grand scheme of things, if we’re successful enough on the water this time around, the goal would be to have developed a team of younger sailors that can then defend it,” Hutchinson said.

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On 10/20/2017 at 4:07 PM, Indio said:

Thought your IQ might have improved after several years...

And after all these years you have forgotten the picture in my sig is dedicated to you.  Care for a mint?  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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14 hours ago, Boybland said:

Ahh I remember being 22, your smart as fuck but basically have no clue what going on most of the time!

Yep. Real smart.  Just focused on the wrong shit, mostly. ;)

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

And after all these years you have forgotten the picture in my sig is dedicated to you.  Care for a mint?  

WetHog  :ph34r:

Hahaha, I thought it was your wife :lol:

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

Hahaha, I thought it was your wife :lol:

Wow.  Real doozy there.  You sure put me in my place, Douche.  :rolleyes:  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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