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Looks like a chine and it runs back to the foil arms which makes sense if you were going to have one. 

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On 12/12/2019 at 12:29 AM, hoom said:

Even in this particular configuration (tied to the dock) - and chine or no chine - AM is pretty easily matching the speed of Ahmed's boat right now:

Screen Shot 2019-12-15 at 5.43.45 PM.png

 

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44 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Even in this particular configuration (tied to the dock) - and chine or no chine - AM is pretty easily matching the speed of Ahmed's boat right now:

Pretty damned impressive but may well be due to AM significantly reducing weight and windage by eliminating the rig and sails.

Farkin brilliant.

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1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

Emirates CEO His Highness Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al Maktoum

ahthanks

is this a thing or is spamdaddy just showing off that good ol' florida redneck racism?

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Chair of Emirates.

A term of affection maybe like I refer to Pyramid Scheme Exhust Fume Magic, or just Amway Carbon Footprint Magic.  

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9 minutes ago, weta27 said:

He thinks it's a way of pissing off the Emirates Team NZ supporters.

Which it is.

Yeah for some reason NYYC supporters are cool with references to the Amway business model, Devos affiliations, and lots of engines. 

Realize I am leaving out Fauth but asset management is hard to slur.

Edited by NeedAClew
Hap

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23 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Pretty damned impressive but may well be due to AM significantly reducing weight and windage by eliminating the rig and sails.

Farkin brilliant.

It is an interesting strategy - and seems to be working very well for AM.

The first day the Ahmedians get back on the boat they've been repairing for weeks from past mishaps - and assumingly "improving" as well - right back to bottom and then the shed. It must be really exhausting. My heart goes out to them.

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49 minutes ago, weta27 said:
1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Who's ahmed?

Someone's weak joke

Woah - is that really what you think of NZ's generous benefactor? That's pretty harsh.

Anyway, show me where I'm misstating anything. It's the truth...even if Clean's a bit slow on the uptake...per-ūsh.

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

AM is pretty easily matching the speed of Ahmed's boat right now

trolling again

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1 hour ago, phill_nz said:

trolling again

I'm loving all the photos and videos of AM sailing at the moment.

 

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4 hours ago, kenergy said:

I'm loving all the photos and videos of AM sailing at the moment.

 

Oh yeah, they sure are up there   Zzzzzzzzzz

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Fellow human beings from the Us of A.
Have you ever considered the name american magic is actuallly plagiarism?
Kiwi magic was the first new zealand campaign in 1987.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Louis_Vuitton_Cup#New_Zealand_Challenge_(New_Zealand)

I still like the look of the twelves altough they were slow.
1534683246_KiwiMagicKZ7.thumb.jpg.e7f5df6aaaa373d6a197e85bc2ec8d0a.jpg
kz-7.jpg.7ffc9215bc3ace377c5c051f311e1abe.jpg
 

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42 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

Fellow human beings from the Us of A.
Have you ever considered the name american magic is actuallly plagiarism?
Kiwi magic was the first new zealand campaign in 1987.
 

No I have never considered it and after you brought it to my attention my give a shit meter is at zero.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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6 minutes ago, WetHog said:

No I have never considered it and after you brought it to my attention my give a shit meter is at zero.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

Not hard to see the resemblence.
Kiwi magic, american magic?

Shit meter is at zero is good; no shit.

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6 minutes ago, sailman said:

L-1857-Magic.jpg  1870 America's Cup Defender "Magic" 

I like Magic,

That was the winner of the first cup wasn't it?
1024px-Schooner_Magic.thumb.jpg.6c64c23bbb5a0220d146ed0cafb54251.jpg
There are several angles to an obvious name.

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15 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

ahthanks

is this a thing or is spamdaddy just showing off that good ol' florida redneck racism?

This earlier proclamation of yours just becomes more and more funny as you keep following me around and humping my leg...

1145151539_ScreenShot2019-12-16at11_53_07AM.thumb.png.9a060d977495dd48140fdd30ed4f5796.png

You seem to embrace and embody both to perfection, Clean...the first full of the second and always ready to spray.

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3 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

, Clean...the first full of the second and always ready to spray.

It's a little gross to know that your creampie fetish website colors your posts here at SA.  CTRL-W please!

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11 hours ago, schakel488 said:

Fellow human beings from the Us of A.
Have you ever considered the name american magic is actuallly plagiarism?
Kiwi magic was the first new zealand campaign in 1987.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Louis_Vuitton_Cup#New_Zealand_Challenge_(New_Zealand)

I still like the look of the twelves altough they were slow.
 

I don’t think us Us of A er’s will be upset that the Kiwi’s plagiarized the Magic name.  We are typically good sports and look at it as a compliment that they called their first boat Magic.

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45 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

 We are typically good sports and look at it as a compliment that they called their first boat Magic.

We borrowed the name again for our boat in San Diego. Did the trick that time.

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On 12/15/2019 at 6:39 PM, NeedAClew said:

Yeah for some reason NYYC supporters are cool with references to the Amway business model, Devos affiliations, and lots of engines. 

Realize I am leaving out Fauth but asset management is hard to slur.

nice edit. now i see your angle. you mad!

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3 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

The big blue beast looks good. Top of the main is quite a bit broader than Te Aihe's.

A glimpse of the dual soft wing sail is revealed but no details about this revolutionary sail.
945127798_softwingsaildefiant2.png.775fdd87fd2e03e79b3533297775ef08.png

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12 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

A glimpse of the dual soft wing sail is revealed but no details about this revolutionary sail.

Still not running a deck sweeper main.

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30 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Still not running a deck sweeper main.

I liked that about the english boat, but how to get to the other side when tacking or gybing with a deck sweeper main?2099029514_decksweepermain.PNG.9e0ee6ec9763f50aaabfc05896e95bfc.PNG
They have to run to the aft.

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15 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

how to get to the other side when tacking or gybing with a deck sweeper main?

Have a look at the latest Te Aihe videos, they run around the back.

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14 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Have a look at the latest Te Aihe videos, they run around the back.

That's what I said, They have to run to the aft.
It's at the bottom of the post.
But thanks.

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3 hours ago, schakel488 said:

A glimpse of the dual soft wing sail is revealed but no details about this revolutionary sail.
945127798_softwingsaildefiant2.png.775fdd87fd2e03e79b3533297775ef08.png

Looks like they are rocking the big gap between leaches now.

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6 minutes ago, barfy said:

Looks like they are rocking the big gap between leaches now.

One might think that this gap gives turbulence that is not aerodynamic.
The advantage of the soft wing profile is much bigger.
I think the Cup has never seen these velocities.
Even not in the time of the so called superior hard-wings.

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1 hour ago, schakel488 said:

One might think that this gap gives turbulence that is not aerodynamic.
The advantage of the soft wing profile is much bigger.
I think the Cup has never seen these velocities.
Even not in the time of the so called superior hard-wings.

Based on what exactly?  

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

Based on what exactly?  

I do not know exactly, but is see the spray behind the foil, looks blistering.
On my eye the AC 75 monohull foilers are faster then the AC 72, 45 and 50's.
To wait and to measure is the only solution.

 

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16 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

I don’t think us Us of A er’s will be upset that the Kiwi’s plagiarized the Magic name.  We are typically good sports and look at it as a compliment that they called their first boat Magic.

Typically.

He really was an asshole.

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

He really was an asshole.

A sailing giant sure a tad abrasive at times but that goes with the room full of silverware.

The biggest arsehole was Fagan Fay.

 

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4 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Typically.

He really was an asshole.

Nah he always just had a knack for winding up notoriously thin skinned kiwis.

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8 minutes ago, eliboat said:

Nah he always just had a knack for winding up notoriously thin skinned kiwis.

Until I started posting in this particular forum, I had no idea just how thin-skinned they really are. It's quite impressive in a sad, crazy-ex-girlfriend kind of way.

Goodonya Dennis. Whaddayasay we do it again, NYYC?

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11 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

I had no idea just how thin-skinned they are

Smack the Poisoned Chalice has a religiously proportioned status here in the land of the long white cloud.

All religions attract zealots and the AC is no different but for some unfathomable reason where interest in the event has never ever been large on the international stage here it is firmly etched deeply in the national psyche.

Dennis was treated appallingly in a cheap shot juvenile interview by that twit Paul Holmes but returned with the Stars & Stripes campaign 2000 and 2003 also he is a three time NZ Etchell National champion having recently just parted with his waterfront property here in Auckland.

For me he is yachting royalty and he is more than welcome in my whare as the waka is sadly sold.

 

 

 

  

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19 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

 

Hard to get any speed readings from the first part of the clip when the boat is chasing Defiant.  At about the 1:55 mark the camera boat is mostly stationary while Defiant passes some high-rises.  At that point I measure the speed to be about 34.7 knots.  It feels like it was going faster than that earlier in the video.

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18 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Smack the Poisoned Chalice has a religiously proportioned status here in the land of the long white cloud.

All religions attract zealots and the AC is no different but for some unfathomable reason where interest in the event has never ever been large on the international stage here it is firmly etched deeply in the national psyche.

Dennis was treated appallingly in a cheap shot juvenile interview by that twit Paul Holmes but returned with the Stars & Stripes campaign 2000 and 2003 also he is a three time NZ Etchell National champion having recently just parted with his waterfront property here in Auckland.

For me he is yachting royalty and he is more than welcome in my whare as the waka is sadly sold.

Wasn't that notorious interview done just before the Appellate Courts reversal, showing Dennis (and more to the point SDYC) did not, in fact, "cheat" and owed an apology to no one? I suppose DC got the last laugh.

Cheers.

PS - did Holmes ever apologize to DC?

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18 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Dizzy Defiant..! 

Looks very stable, flies quite high, great to see some video, thanks

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12 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Wasn't that notorious interview done just before the Appellate Courts reversal, showing Dennis (and more to the point SDYC) did not, in fact, "cheat" and owed an apology to no one? I suppose DC got the last laugh.

Cheers.

PS - did Holmes ever apologize to DC?

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/holmes-the-first-episode-1989

Nope , Paul Holmes received a Knighthood and promptly popped his clogs.

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11 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Oof. The last few seconds of Holmes smugging, "Well, I thought some kind of apology was called for."

Yep - he represents the KiWhingerTM contingent very well. It's good to know the whole country is not like that, and that he took a few boots at home for it afterward.

I assume he did apologize to DC after the reversal? After all, he thought one was called for. Heh.

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46 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Hard to get any speed readings from the first part of the clip when the boat is chasing Defiant.  At about the 1:55 mark the camera boat is mostly stationary while Defiant passes some high-rises.  At that point I measure the speed to be about 34.7 knots.  It feels like it was going faster than that earlier in the video.

Does the thing get it's black nose and a new collar for Christmas?

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

before the Appellate Courts reversal, showing Dennis (and more to the point SDYC) did not, in fact, "cheat"

so one or 2 courts found he cheated

one or 2 courts found he didnt

and you call that definitive proof he didnt ??

 

so to parallel

trump will be guilty of basically treasonable acts for a month or 2 then he will be found innocent

by the highest and presumably most ethical courts in the land ( house and senate )

 

cue tui's ad

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34 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

so one or 2 courts found he cheated

one or 2 courts found he didnt

and you call that definitive proof he didnt ??

 

so to parallel

trump will be guilty of basically treasonable acts for a month or 2 then he will be found innocent

by the highest and presumably most ethical courts in the land ( house and senate )

 

cue tui's ad

trolling?

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21 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

 

 

This would be much better if the videographer hadn't tried to make up for a night of drinking red bull and vodkas by drinking a gallon of coffee.  Still cool though!

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5 hours ago, weta27 said:

Looks very stable, flies quite high, great to see some video, thanks

The first part of the video looks low and close to the water.

Screen Shot 2019-12-17 at 10.23.37 PM.png

Screen Shot 2019-12-17 at 10.18.48 PM.png

Screen Shot 2019-12-17 at 10.22.20 PM.png

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6 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

KiWhingerTM 

And yet you claim to not be trolling. 

You would probably be fun if you were any good at it. 

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18 hours ago, schakel488 said:

To wait and to measure is the only solution.

That is the most accurate one but not the only one and that's why we come to SA, to have the whole scale of estimates based on whatever evidence or non-evidence SA contributors can get. I am not so convinced by boat lengths measurement on screen and frame counting, but a bit more when the information comes from the teams themselves.

Not much numbers revealed by teams recently, but one of their supplier did. Here is what Honda is saying when supplying chase boats for Ineos (note, there is no question mark attached, pretty affirmative statement there):

Quote

The new America’s Cup boat is going to be reaching between 50 and 60 knots so for these support boats we should be seeing 60 plus knots which should enable us to keep up with them.

Full link here: https://www.hondaengineroom.co.uk/power/bringing-it-home-the-americas-cup/?utm_source=HondaUKPower&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2866475019_2866475021

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I tried a little calculation (which might be completely wrong) for  the last vid between those two points:

- 4"32.13 and 4"33.57 so 1,44 second

Considering that the second position (4"32.13) was corresponding to the point where the stem was viewed from approximately a 90° angle I tried to find the frame where the end of the bowsprit was presenting the same alignment with a point on the horizon (in this case it was two buildings) and found 4"33.57.

Not knowing what was the angle of rotation of the lens/cameraman, I had to neglected this aspect.

 

Based on the design rules that the boat is between 22,76 m and 22,86 m from TRP and bowsprit, I got those speeds:

30.72 knts - 30.85 knts

 

I assume that this calculation is completely bullshit

 

 

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12 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

Hard to get any speed readings from the first part of the clip when the boat is chasing Defiant.  At about the 1:55 mark the camera boat is mostly stationary while Defiant passes some high-rises.  At that point I measure the speed to be about 34.7 knots.  It feels like it was going faster than that earlier in the video.

How fast wil these boats be in stronger winds, windforce 5, 6, 7?
By the looks of the sea state in the video this might be beaufort 4. (11 -16 knots of wind)
(I do not see any crested wavelets)
Windforce 5 is17 to 21 knots
Wind force 6 is 22 to 27 knots.
Windforce 7 is 28 to 33
Source: Beaufort scale
I am pretty sure they do not sail in gales.
wind-at-sea.thumb.jpg.70ed9b7935d0d7bc3415d444b3b040d6.jpg
 

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On 12/17/2019 at 4:03 AM, schakel488 said:

I liked that about the english boat, but how to get to the other side when tacking or gybing with a deck sweeper main?2099029514_decksweepermain.PNG.9e0ee6ec9763f50aaabfc05896e95bfc.PNG
They have to run to the aft.

There are three tunnels through the hull under the wing. The tunnels are lit by improvised candles and called Tom, Dick and Harry respectively. You go through the tunnel on your chest on a sort of skateboard apparatus.

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3 hours ago, Lakrass said:

That is the most accurate one but not the only one and that's why we come to SA, to have the whole scale of estimates based on whatever evidence or non-evidence SA contributors can get. I am not so convinced by boat lengths measurement on screen and frame counting, but a bit more when the information comes from the teams themselves.

Not much numbers revealed by teams recently, but one of their supplier did. Here is what Honda is saying when supplying chase boats for Ineos (note, there is no question mark attached, pretty affirmative statement there):

Full link here: https://www.hondaengineroom.co.uk/power/bringing-it-home-the-americas-cup/?utm_source=HondaUKPower&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2866475019_2866475021

I wouldn't put much faith in a bit of PR fluff.  Otherwise, ETNZ's in trouble, since they're only claiming around fifty knots!  

NZ.PNG

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6 hours ago, Monkey said:

I wouldn't put much faith in a bit of PR fluff.  Otherwise, ETNZ's in trouble, since they're only claiming around fifty knots!  

NZ.PNG

Well they better start designing their super cavitation foils if the want to get to 60knots lol. Pity that they would be useless under 50 knots. Sounds like over enthusiastic marketing department 

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1 hour ago, uflux said:

Well they better start designing their super cavitation foils if the want to get to 60knots lol. Pity that they would be useless under 50 knots. Sounds like over enthusiastic marketing department 

I think it’s more of a misunderstanding. I think everyone expects the sailboats to be in the 50 knot range, plus or minus a few knots. It’d make sense to have chase boats that can go 60. 

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Well, this AC win is going to be way easier than I thought. Heh.

Dust off the shelf boys.

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That is really awesome to see the boat and crew working like this. Man they look solid...and fast...

2029536172_ScreenShot2019-12-20at3_57_29PM.thumb.png.c2b521ca081b8e202af3601f21b7f365.png

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12 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Was there a maneuver I missed?

so fast you couldn't even see it. Need an 8K monitor or it's invisible.

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Wow

What's wow about it? What's with the grinder fiddling with their crude looking main? They look way behind the other teams in this area.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Was there a maneuver I missed?

Actually it's the lack of bold "maneuvers" (e.g. - falling over, hurtling toward the bottom, etc.) that makes boats fast.

Hyperbole aside, what's most interesting about this video is watching the boat's lateral movements when the drone gets into the position above - and watching the crew's response to these pretty pronounced shifts. That's what is so educational...for those that care to learn something anyway. There's a lot of obvious work going on to simply keep this boat on her feet. I guarantee some other teams (at least the smart ones) are picking these specific "maneuvers" apart.

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28 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Actually it's the lack of bold "maneuvers" (e.g. - falling over, hurtling toward the bottom, etc.) that makes boats fast.

 

No offense intended spamdaddy but where did you acquire your knowledge of fast boats?  You've done - what - 1000 miles on cruising boats in the Gulf since you learned to sail a decade ago, right? 

My apologies if I am wrong about your sailing experience, but I'm pretty sure I remember your experience being almost nonexistent a few years ago. Did you get an A-Cat or something?

 

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

What's wow about it? What's with the grinder fiddling with their crude looking main? They look way behind the other teams in this area.

Not that often that we see such an agressive helming. In general it is not faster as each move of the rudder acts like a brake excepted if it allows foiling, as here.

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35 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Not that often that we see such an agressive helming.

Zipping along with the breeze up is all we've seen from AM. What are their manoeuvers like in light conditions? Have they used a code zero on Defiant? Watching a grinder tug on the foot of the main - give up, then go back to grinding didn't look great. Their main and control systems look very conventional compared to the other teams. Lots of unanswered questions about this program.

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7 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Zipping along with the breeze up is all we've seen from AM. What are their manoeuvers like in light conditions? Have they used a code zero on Defiant? Watching a grinder tug on the foot of the main - give up, then go back to grinding didn't look great. Their main and control systems look very conventional compared to the other teams. Lots of unanswered questions about this program.

I have to say I like their main and control because it is familiar to us, it looks like on our boat !

For the rest I agree with you, lots of unanswered question, and a lot less images or vids than TNZ who is very generous, mainly thanks to locals like Weta.

Those from whom we have seen the least are the italians. Waiting for Cagliari !

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i would be more worried by the hard lateral slips

there was no input from the helm to cause it by what i could see

certainly not stable by any interpretation

thats the sort of thing that breaks both boats and sailors

 

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7 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I like their main and control because it is familiar to us, it looks like on our boat !

With all due respect, I sure your main works well on your boat, but the sophistication required to be in with a shot in the next AC is going to need to be exponentially higher - and that's putting it mildly. Who knows where they are with their sail program though. They could be working on schmick stuff - we just haven't seen it yet.

12 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

a lot less images or vids than TNZ who is very generous,

We've seen them (ETNZ) sailing and manoeuvering in a broad range of conditions - and they look good. They're practicing going around cans in race like setup now - something we haven't seen from the others. All this says, is that they're further along their development path than the others, which is a reasonable assumption since they've spent the most time sailing. It's no wonder the Bookies have them at short priced favourites - at this stage.

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17 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

i would be more worried by the hard lateral slips

there was no input from the helm to cause it by what i could see

certainly not stable by any interpretation

thats the sort of thing that breaks both boats and sailors

That's exactly right. But the real question is - is it just DEFIANT that is having this issue in what appears to be pretty nominal conditions - or is the AC75 in general. My money is on it being the latter just due to the foil configuration. And if that's true, this video shows that AM is way ahead of the pack in controlling this tendency and maintaining the speed.

It would also go a long way to explaining the problems the Emeratis are having. This is the kind of thing you wouldn't necessarily deal with on a sim...but would get the feel for riding the donkey.

Time will tell. It's just great getting a much closer/detailed look at the behavior of the boat and crew while powered up.

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27 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

i would be more worried by the hard lateral slips

there was no input from the helm to cause it by what i could see

certainly not stable by any interpretation

thats the sort of thing that breaks both boats and sailors

 

Quite a twitchy critter with a lot of energy being squandered attempting to control it.

Thank god the races are only five minutes in duration or that crew will need a lie down and a cuppa between flights.

Quite aptly named though Defiant to sailing in a controlled manner.

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26 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

i would be more worried by the hard lateral slips

there was no input from the helm to cause it by what i could see

certainly not stable by any interpretation

thats the sort of thing that breaks both boats and sailors

 

It is clear that a stable boat is always faster.

Your observations are interesting, I watched the vid a couple of times and I see the wheel going left and right but difficult to know if it initiates or follows the move.

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3 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

is it just DEFIANT that is having this issue in what appears to be pretty nominal conditions

ineos had a mast problem .. with the 3d printed ball arrangement they made looking to me like it would create point loading ( always fatal for carbon fibre constructs )

perhaps they have fallen foul of the lateral stability problem as well

 

i havnt seen any vids of tnz doing it and lunar rosa is awol from any knowledge of its boat

maybe its a scow problem or maybe its a problem for all .. for sure some designs will make it worse others may mitigate it .. but thats speculation as to if or how

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25 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

i would be more worried by the hard lateral slips

It's certainly a different look than we've seen from Te Aihe, which doesn't seem to side slip or look nearly so twitchy ^^^ (Priscilla). I wonder how well the bulb foils are working?

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3 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I see the wheel going left and right but difficult to know if it initiates or follow the move.

check the helm movement direction .. is it going the way to cause it or save it

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6 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

check the helm movement direction .. is it going the way to cause it or save it

I do it sometimes with my boat to feel it, here could it be to deceive the other teams ?

 

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6 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I do it sometimes with my boat to feel it, here could it be to deceive the other teams ?

 

Ha ha ha.  Sure, they’ve deliberately published film that makes it look like they can’t keep their boat going in a straight line because.....?

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Not that often that we see such an agressive helming. In general it is not faster as each move of the rudder acts like a brake excepted if it allows foiling, as here.

Pretty sure that when I aggressively turn my foil it slows me down when compared to just going straight on a foil.