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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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33 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Holy fuck that is the funniest thing I may have ever read in AC Anarchy.  They own yachts that cost more than an AC campaign.

 

Generously donated by poor, ignorant people scammed with the MLM pyramid scheme. At least, nobody could say that about Prada's handbags

 

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10 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

Mate!  Forbes estimates the real-time net worth today of Rich deVos,  patriarch of the family at $5.2 billion.  He alone could cough up the entire tab with no pain. The rest of the family, son and syndicate head Doug, his brother Dick Jr and sister-in-law, Betsy are all exceedingly well-heeled. Add Hap Fauth and you know this challenge will be well supported.

Of course this crowd prefers that others fund their fun and games. That's why they hang on to the big bucks. But make no mistake. The deVos clan will fund this challenge to the full extent needed.

THutch is one fortunate boyo.

True. I carefully said "have it raised or have a clear path to raising it" because it may end up that others don't WANT to fund their fun and games but they themselves are willing to go the full amount themselves. 

DeVos: "Hey Hap"

Fauth: "What's up, Doug"

DeVos: "You wanna win? Or just build some cool boats?"

Fauth: "And lose? To Italians? No one loses to Italians. Let's win!"

DeVos: "Ok buddy. What do you say we set the budget at $300 million and you and I split the shortfalls, whatever they may be?"

Fauth: "Agreed. But first we raise as much as we can from others. Only after exhausting every avenue, then we go public with this. Have you called Donald yet?"

DeVos: "Agreed. I haven't spoken to him but Betsy tells me he's good for $25,000. So we have that going for us."

Fauth: "Cheap son of a bitch."

 

Or maybe not. Maybe they actually will not put in more than a certain cap that they've no doubt discussed already. 

 

I think the only thing we know for sure is that Luna Rosa will be spending ungodly amounts of money to win this thing. 

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THutch also spoke in an earlier interview about the need to raise additional commercial and private funding, leaving an impression there is some limit deVos and Fauth are committed to; but you’d think even that limit will produce a reasonably lavish effort.

If the great white $hark LE enters as a Challenger, well that’s when you could see everyone else looking like goldfish, financial-effort wise. He could easily have a different agenda this time, one that is more like the no-holds-barred, balls-to-the-wall, gazillion-dollar AC33 game. What JS said in the RB interview may have beeen just RB’ish bravado but it could alternately be an accurate reflection of a conversation they’d had.

My guess now is that LE will fund both an AC Challenge, maybe even an OTAUS one, ~and~ an LVWS in AC45F’s and/or AC45T’s and/or AC50’s, crazy-expensive as all that may sound.

So far there are only 3 Challs but there could conceivably be 5 Challs with announced intentions by Xmas, same number as AC35 Bermuda but a stronger field overall.

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7 hours ago, 2Newts said:

I think the only thing we know for sure is that Luna Rosa will be spending ungodly amounts of money to win this thing. 

Fortunately however much of it will be spent on team uniforms.

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4 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Fortunately however much of it will be spent on team uniforms.

And they'll end up looking naff in silver jump suits too. 

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Silver jump suits are soooo 2013...

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10 hours ago, Nutta said:

Silver jump suits are soooo 2013...

Indeed.

2sacs5w.jpg

But lets keep one thing in mind, Prada is the title sponsor of AC36.  Prada will be plastered on everything and everything.  For that reason I fully suspect the outfit Sad Max is modeling above will be taken to a much higher level.  Like optional butt cheek and calf implants level for team members, support staff and race committee members.  Patrizio the Poodle has to go all out.  Unless he wins the Cup this is probably his last hurrah in the America's Cup.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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What’s with the subject in NZ news about limiting the ability of foreigners to purchase properties? Is it likely to have any effect on guys like TT buying and building bases like what he did in SF and in Bermuda?

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12 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

And they'll end up looking naff in silver jump suits too. 

 

Ha, ha (good one, though)

 

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25 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

What’s with the subject in NZ news about limiting the ability of foreigners to purchase properties? Is it likely to have any effect on guys like TT buying and building bases like what he did in SF and in Bermuda?

I think that's only residential, and from what I understand all of the land around the Auckland waterfront is leasehold so you can't technically "buy" it so it shouldn't be an issue

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20 minutes ago, ezyb said:

I think that's only residential, and from what I understand all of the land around the Auckland waterfront is leasehold so you can't technically "buy" it so it shouldn't be an issue

Then it shouldn’t effect TT or PB or whoever would lease land to put bases on. Assuming land is even available, a situation ETNZ has itself been squeezed into a tight corner out of. 

Where might syndicates go, if they wanted to secure large area waterfront leases ahead of time? North?

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On 10/27/2017 at 12:03 AM, rgeek said:

Like dangling off the lifelines for most of the race, prompting the question "what are they all doing??" from the uninitiated?

At least the uninitiated knew what everyone was doing with the cats, going for a bike ride....

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Then it shouldn’t effect TT or PB or whoever would lease land to put bases on. Assuming land is even available, a situation ETNZ has itself been squeezed into a tight corner out of. 

Where might syndicates go, if they wanted to secure large area waterfront leases ahead of time? North?

That's about the limit of my Auckland real estate knowledge from 9,000 miles away :D  I'm sure one of the locals will have a better idea as to whether there's any suitable spots outside of the city 

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9 hours ago, jaysper said:

And plush carpet.

Carpet? Why not go all-out Versace and just go with marble every fucking where? 

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41 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Carpet? Why not go all-out Versace and just go with marble every fucking where? 

Dude,  you are such a peasant. 

The marble goes UNDER the carpet.

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9 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

What’s with the subject in NZ news about limiting the ability of foreigners to purchase properties? Is it likely to have any effect on guys like TT buying and building bases like what he did in SF and in Bermuda?

Dear people not from NZ. I must apologise for the recently elected Govt in NZ. It is a hard socialist Govt made up of a selection of parties that didn't win the majority of votes. The coalition (Lab/NZF) actually have less seats than the centre right party (Nat) who are now in opposition. The coalition is supported in confidence by the Greens (who stand for poverty rather than green things)

For the last 9 years the National led NZ Govt and the NZ economy has been the envy of the world after being well managed through some big shocks (remember GFC). Now we have policies that say foreigners can't buy land, tax, a Prime Minister whose commercial experience is only working in a fish and chip shop, and some more tax.

Of course the left leaning press are going all ga ga over this and writing up really good stories on Paddles the cat (of the PM's) and that woman's rugby should be paid the same as the All Blacks (yea right!). The womans magazines are understandably having a fielday.

As far as AC is concerned the finance minister is also the minister of sport (which is good) but he has no experience in finance or actually running anything. His total commercial experience is zero. However, he is so hopeless that we just assume he will write out a cheque (check) to GD and Tindall.

But when you guys get here to race your boats the NZ economy may be running like say BAR  in BDA (off the pace but environmentally PC, and with a princess), and not like TNZ (winning).

Oh and also be prepared to pay lots of tax when you come down here!  

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8 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Dear people not from NZ. I must apologise for the recently elected Govt in NZ. It is a hard socialist Govt made up of a selection of parties that didn't win the majority of votes. The coalition (Lab/NZF) actually have less seats than the centre right party (Nat) who are now in opposition. The coalition is supported in confidence by the Greens (who stand for poverty rather than green things)

For the last 9 years the National led NZ Govt and the NZ economy has been the envy of the world after being well managed through some big shocks (remember GFC). Now we have policies that say foreigners can't buy land, tax, a Prime Minister whose commercial experience is only working in a fish and chip shop, and some more tax.

Of course the left leaning press are going all ga ga over this and writing up really good stories on Paddles the cat (of the PM's) and that woman's rugby should be paid the same as the All Blacks (yea right!). The womans magazines are understandably having a fielday.

As far as AC is concerned the finance minister is also the minister of sport (which is good) but he has no experience in finance or actually running anything. His total commercial experience is zero. However, he is so hopeless that we just assume he will write out a cheque (check) to GD and Tindall.

But when you guys get here to race your boats the NZ economy may be running like say BAR  in BDA (off the pace but environmentally PC, and with a princess), and not like TNZ (winning).

Oh and also be prepared to pay lots of tax when you come down here!  

Its sounds like you folk that fall on the right side of the political isle down there in NZ need someone to be your voice from the wilderness.  Someone to Make New Zealand Great Again.  I got just the man for you and us Yanks are itching for a place to send him.  Interested?  :lol:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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5 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Its sounds like you folk that fall on the right side of the political isle down there in NZ need someone to be your voice from the wilderness.  Someone to Make New Zealand Great Again.  I got just the man for you and us Yanks are itching for a place to send him.  Interested?  :lol:

WetHog  :ph34r:

We have a couple of aides for him here in GER, newly elected into our parliament. I'd gladly forward them an address in NZL where they can stay forever.

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2 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

We have a couple of aides for him here in GER, newly elected into our parliament. I'd gladly forward them an address in NZL where they can stay forever.

A kind offer Rennie, but no thanks. We borrowed your MMP system for electing our parliamentary muppets and it's not working too well.

But I do like my new VW!

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

A kind offer Rennie, but no thanks. We borrowed your MMP system for electing our parliamentary muppets and it's not working too well.

But I do like my new VW!

Since the thread is off the rails anyway (and can be brought back once there's something new to tell)...

I hope, it's not a Diesel... Not too happy about VW, as it's the main competitor in Ger for the company I work for, and it screwed the whole industry with their cheating.
The MMP system is one of the better electoral systems tho.

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1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

Since the thread is off the rails anyway (and can be brought back once there's something new to tell)...

I hope, it's not a Diesel... Not too happy about VW, as it's the main competitor in Ger for the company I work for, and it screwed the whole industry with their cheating.
The MMP system is one of the better electoral systems tho.

No. Not Diesel. Golf R-line. Couldn't afford the R sadly. 

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43 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

No. Not Diesel. Golf R-line. Couldn't afford the R sadly. 

I had a Golf once. Great car. It did 100 MPG (that's what the sales brochure said)

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

Since the thread is off the rails anyway (and can be brought back once there's something new to tell)...

I hope, it's not a Diesel... Not too happy about VW, as it's the main competitor in Ger for the company I work for, and it screwed the whole industry with their cheating.
The MMP system is one of the better electoral systems tho.

I had rather hoped that Dieselgate had caused VW to go bankrupt and all their executives go to jail, but alas it was not to be.

SBD is right about NZ and MMP though. We have one narcissistic prick that has repeatedly fucked NZ over with his lust for power. This is not a right vs left thing because he has formed Government with both sides over the years.

It's about the tail wagging the dog and the fact that he always extracts maximum benefit for himself. 

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11 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I had rather hoped that Dieselgate had caused VW to go bankrupt and all their executives go to jail, but alas it was not to be.

SBD is right about NZ and MMP though. We have one narcissistic prick that has repeatedly fucked NZ over with his lust for power. This is not a right vs left thing because he has formed Government with both sides over the years.

It's about the tail wagging the dog and the fact that he always extracts maximum benefit for himself. 

A system is as good as the people in it. The rules, may it be the electoral system, form of government or the Deed of Gift, are shaped by the persons that are (ab)using them. If they do not believe in the respective system, value it, and act in its spirit, every system becomes an easy victim of selfishness and greed of a few. These few will abuse the good rules to get their way and derail the actually good system. USA/Trump + banks and insurance companies, AC/Ernie + Larry + Russell, Germany/AfD + other undemocratic groups (Reichsbürger etc.) + banks + "the Markets", and the list goes on.

At least, I put some AC reference into my rant...

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Got my eye on a Golf R in a couple months as soon as I find a used one to my liking.  Love them cars. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Off track too (umm, file it under ‘nationality’?) i for a time drove a ‘92 Mitsubishi 3000GT and because the electronics were faulty I learned how to say a variety of very useful things, in Japanese. Like ‘Your door is ajar!’

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49 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Got my eye on a Golf R in a couple months as soon as I find a used one to my liking.  Love them cars. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

Meh, I'd never buy a car made by white people.

Japanese or Korean only. The quality stats for the likes of GM, Ford, Mercedes are really bad.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Off track too (umm, file it under ‘nationality’?) i for a time drove a ‘92 Mitsubishi 3000GT and because the electronics were faulty I learned how to say a variety of very useful things, in Japanese. Like ‘Your door is ajar!’

I remember lusting after one of those back when they were new, kind of weaned myself off of the whole performance thing so now it's a 94 Escort wagon, a Giant Fast Road SLR (bicycle) & an ORCA card (that's a bus pass), system works pretty well, the Ford has a mere 91 grand on the odo.

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41 minutes ago, animeproblem said:

I remember lusting after one of those back when they were new, kind of weaned myself off of the whole performance thing so now it's a 94 Escort wagon, a Giant Fast Road SLR (bicycle) & an ORCA card (that's a bus pass), system works pretty well, the Ford has a mere 91 grand on the odo.

It was a ridiculous car all around, much like my current one. I work from home and drive very few miles so it works regardless; you only go around once so why not go fun. 17K miles, still drives like new.

You live in Seattle’s Lake Forest Park, right? For many years living there I used the excellent Metro bus system whenever I couldn’t just bike the also-excellent Gilman Trail down to UW. I averaged about 20 mph riding, better on really good days. 

 

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Meh, I'd never buy a car made by white people.

Japanese or Korean only. The quality stats for the likes of GM, Ford, Mercedes are really bad.

Japanese not so much anymore according to my mechanic.  He swears by Kia/Hyundai. I still hold out hope my German friends can still build a quality car. Volkswagen folk that is.  I want to believe only working class Germans who still have pride in what they do make VWs.

 Regardless, I’ve had a hankering for a silver GTI since I was a kid But the GTI has been bastardized into multiple trim levels these days.  Used to be just 1 version of the GTI and then if you wanted trim levels you got a golf.  That’s why I want an R.  It’s the GTI of my youth.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Heaven & Hell

HEAVEN is where:

The police are British

The chefs Italian

The mechanics are German

The lovers are French

and it's all organised by the Swiss  

 

HELL is where:

The police are German

The chefs are British

The mechanics are French

The lovers are Swiss

and it's all organised by Italians!

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It was a ridiculous car all around, much like my current one. I work from home and drive very few miles so it works regardless; you only go around once so why not go fun. 17K miles, still drives like new.

You live in Seattle’s Lake Forest Park, right? For many years living there I used the excellent Metro bus system whenever I couldn’t just bike the also-excellent Gilman Trail down to UW. I averaged about 20 mph riding, better on really good days. 

 

If anything mass transit has gotten even better (despite the efforts of some to de-fund it) the addition of the bike racks across most systems makes the whole thing so much more flexible, & yes when worked I worked at UofW I often rode home (it's construction for me so a ride to work, not so much). As for the car thing I have to admit the Escort once shared the garage with a 69 Road Runner (383 four speed), so yes I certainly had some pure fun times.  

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57 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Japanese not so much anymore according to my mechanic.  He swears by Kia/Hyundai. I still hold out hope my German friends can still build a quality car. Volkswagen folk that is.  I want to believe only working class Germans who still have pride in what they do make VWs.

 Regardless, I’ve had a hankering for a silver GTI since I was a kid But the GTI has been bastardized into multiple trim levels these days.  Used to be just 1 version of the GTI and then if you wanted trim levels you got a golf.  That’s why I want an R.  It’s the GTI of my youth.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

I would agree with most of that.

I don't think Toyota is "all that" any more, Nissan,  Honda and Mitsubishi have turned to shit and Subaru have always had quality issues.

But I think probably Mazda are top of the heap (including Hyunkia).

But even the worst Japanese manufacturer is better than the best American manufacturer IMO. And I don't rate the European manufacturers much higher.

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39 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Heaven & Hell

HEAVEN is where:

The police are British

The chefs Italian

The mechanics are German

The lovers are French

and it's all organised by the Swiss  

 

HELL is where:

The police are German

The chefs are British

The mechanics are French

The lovers are Swiss

and it's all organised by Italians!

According to that recent study yiu quoted, surely us Kiwis belong as the Hell Lovers? :D

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3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Cheaper than the Swiss for sure :D

Ahem. I'm not sure size of the wallet was the problem, Stinger. B)

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12 hours ago, jaysper said:

I would agree with most of that.

I don't think Toyota is "all that" any more, Nissan,  Honda and Mitsubishi have turned to shit and Subaru have always had quality issues.

But I think probably Mazda are top of the heap (including Hyunkia).

But even the worst Japanese manufacturer is better than the best American manufacturer IMO. And I don't rate the European manufacturers much higher.

Because a lot of the Japanese manufacturers, and Germans, are building their cars in America, or Mexico.  For us US consumers at least. Us Yanks are to lazy to make sure the robust are performing their job efficiently. B)

I am with you in regards to Mazda.  My parents had a 1986 RX7 and I loved that car.  Especially when I was old enough to drive it.  120 MPH over the Chesapeake Bay Bridge wasn’t to smart but it was damn exciting. Then 10 years ago I bought a Mazda 6 5 door with the V6.  Loved that car.  Now my Mom is looking at a new car for her retirement years. 1st stop is the Mazda dealership to look at a Mazda 3 5 door and CX5.  Mazda’s have always treated me well over the years.  If I can’t find my used R I’ll look for a used Speed 6. ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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16 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Off track too (umm, file it under ‘nationality’?) i for a time drove a ‘92 Mitsubishi 3000GT and because the electronics were faulty I learned how to say a variety of very useful things, in Japanese. Like ‘Your door is ajar!’

Japan's Corvette.  You're consistent!

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15 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Japan's Corvette.  You're consistent!

True, pretty similar. I also tried the Supra but ended up buying neither one - got a little CRX instead - which was simple but a great car.

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Loved my old CRX with the headers and 4" pipe, shifter scraped from a Miata, and big fucking tires.  No slowing down for any corner...ever.

But my 3000GT killer was an 89 RX-7 turbo II tuned to put out around 500 hp at 11000 rpm.  Same power as the GT, 70% of the weight!

Supra was always a fat pig, but pretty as hell until the new body.  Remember the Celica Supra?  Was the first japanese econobox with a big engine shoehorned in.  That thing was sweet.

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3 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Loved my old CRX with the headers and 4" pipe, shifter scraped from a Miata, and big fucking tires.  No slowing down for any corner...ever.

But my 3000GT killer was an 89 RX-7 turbo II tuned to put out around 500 hp at 11000 rpm.  Same power as the GT, 70% of the weight!

Supra was always a fat pig, but pretty as hell until the new body.  Remember the Celica Supra?  Was the first japanese econobox with a big engine shoehorned in.  That thing was sweet.

Lol, fun stuff. My CRX was actually the HF (high fuel) model, a weakling, but I often beat 45 mpg and it was still sporty enough to be fun.

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6 hours ago, WetHog said:

Because a lot of the Japanese manufacturers, and Germans, are building their cars in America, or Mexico.  For us US consumers at least. Us Yanks are to lazy to make sure the robust are performing their job efficiently. B)

I am with you in regards to Mazda.  My parents had a 1986 RX7 and I loved that car.  Especially when I was old enough to drive it.  120 MPH over the Chesapeake Bay Bridge wasn’t to smart but it was damn exciting. Then 10 years ago I bought a Mazda 6 5 door with the V6.  Loved that car.  Now my Mom is looking at a new car for her retirement years. 1st stop is the Mazda dealership to look at a Mazda 3 5 door and CX5.  Mazda’s have always treated me well over the years.  If I can’t find my used R I’ll look for a used Speed 6. ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

So Mitsubishi decided to sell their soul about 20 years ago when they started trying to hide defects rather than making recalls.

And Honda got totally butt fucked by the fukushima incident.

But yeah, if you outsource your manufacturing without putting in place the culture and systems to ensure quality then you get precisely the same result as if you fail to do this stuff whilst manufacturing in house.

It IS possible to manufacture quality goods in China or Mexico as long as you set it up and manage it properly. Otherwise good fucking luck.

Last time I heard the BMWs we get here in NZ are manufactured in South Africa which hardly has a reputation for a skilled quality focused workforce.  

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4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

So Mitsubishi decided to sell their soul about 20 years ago when they started trying to hide defects rather than making recalls.

And Honda got totally butt fucked by the fukushima incident.

But yeah, if you outsource your manufacturing without putting in place the culture and systems to ensure quality then you get precisely the same result as if you fail to do this stuff whilst manufacturing in house.

It IS possible to manufacture quality goods in China or Mexico as long as you set it up and manage it properly. Otherwise good fucking luck.

Last time I heard the BMWs we get here in NZ are manufactured in South Africa which hardly has a reputation for a skilled quality focused workforce.  

And don't underestimate Chinese manufacturing of US or German engineering. The quality went from subterranean to stunning during the last 10 years. Especially, since the Chinese customer has a higher demand for quality than we, who grew up with second, third and fourth hand cars that squeaked and rattled their way through our first miles/kms.

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Just now, Rennmaus said:

And don't underestimate Chinese manufacturing of US or German engineering. The quality went from subterranean to stunning during the last 10 years. Especially, since the Chinese customer has a higher demand for quality than we, who grew up with second, third and fourth hand cars that squeaked and rattled their way through our first miles/kms.

Certainly don't Renny but from what I've observed they generally only produce high quality goods if an outside firm "transplants" it into them.

Toyota in Vietnam for example actually manufacture pretty good quality cars.

Not as good quality as the Japanese manufactured cars probably but way better than you'd expect. 

In contrast look at Great Wall or any of the truly domestic Chinese brands that have not received a "quality transplant" and they are pretty embarrassing. Perhaps not Lada-esque but pretty bad.

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Certainly don't Renny but from what I've observed they generally only produce high quality goods if an outside firm "transplants" it into them.

Toyota in Vietnam for example actually manufacture pretty good quality cars.

Not as good quality as the Japanese manufactured cars probably but way better than you'd expect. 

In contrast look at Great Wall or any of the truly domestic Chinese brands that have not received a "quality transplant" and they are pretty embarrassing. Perhaps not Lada-esque but pretty bad.

Yup, that's what I wanted to express with the USA/GER engineering. 

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^ My VW was built in Germany this year.

I have no complaints - except for the fake exhaust diffusers. WTF?

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7 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

^ My VW was built in Germany this year.

I have no complaints - except for the fake exhaust diffusers. WTF?

My new Ford was built in India, and it's still on its way to me. I am really curious about its quality.

My old one was built in Valencia, and its quality is less than stellar. At least it was my more or less reliable companion for 14 years, and hopefully will be for a couple of month more.

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

My new Ford was built in India, and it's still on its way to me. I am really curious about its quality.

My old one was built in Valencia, and its quality is less than stellar. At least it was my more or less reliable companion for 14 years, and hopefully will be for a couple of month more.

I would never buy an American vehicle.

I'm not a fan of European but American car manufacturers just seem to have the worst quality practices (well except for India and most of Asia).

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36 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Would be interested to see resolution statistics also.

I know that here in Australasia that VW, Ford, GM, Chrysler have just appalling track records when dealing with complaints. 

VW even went so far as threatening to get an Oz Government employee sacked because he used his work email address to lodge a complaint.

They claimed by using his work email that he was using "government influence" to get what he wanted and blackmailed him into dropping his claim for his car to be replaced. 

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On 28/10/2017 at 10:04 PM, Rennmaus said:

A system is as good as the people in it. The rules, may it be the electoral system, form of government or the Deed of Gift, are shaped by the persons that are (ab)using them. If they do not believe in the respective system, value it, and act in its spirit, every system becomes an easy victim of selfishness and greed of a few. These few will abuse the good rules to get their way and derail the actually good system. USA/Trump + banks and insurance companies, AC/Ernie + Larry + Russell, Germany/AfD + other undemocratic groups (Reichsbürger etc.) + banks + "the Markets", and the list goes on.

At least, I put some AC reference into my rant...

Yup.....

Well put.

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I don't care what you say I have owned Chevy's (and GM's) since the 70's and had excellent service out of them. I have an S10 Blazer and it has almost 209,000 miles on it and still running strong. Had a Ford once and swore I would never own another one. 

Chevy Bowtie.jpg

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5 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

And don't underestimate Chinese manufacturing of US or German engineering. The quality went from subterranean to stunning during the last 10 years. Especially, since the Chinese customer has a higher demand for quality than we, who grew up with second, third and fourth hand cars that squeaked and rattled their way through our first miles/kms.

to be fair it's all about which product.  The many chinese cars that end up in Cuba thanks to decades of embargo are rusted through in about 4 years.

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4 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

I don't care what you say I have owned Chevy's (and GM's) since the 70's and had excellent service out of them. I have an S10 Blazer and it has almost 209,000 miles on it and still running strong. Had a Ford once and swore I would never own another one. 

Chevy Bowtie.jpg

It's not about one car or even one hundred.

It's about them all.

There are even plenty of Fiats out there thatvhave given exemplary service, but on average they are total pieces of shit.

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12 hours ago, jaysper said:

It's not about one car or even one hundred.

It's about them all.

There are even plenty of Fiats out there thatvhave given exemplary service, but on average they are total pieces of shit.

Some were saying American cars were crap, etc. so responding to that. You are hard pressed to get a better sports car deal than a Corvette for the money, most are way more expensive for the same type of performance.

Now the Vega on the other hand, it was rather questionable although they made a great drag car with a little swapping around of components.

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Just now, ~HHN92~ said:

Some were saying American cars were crap, etc. so responding to that. You are hard pressed to get a better sports car deal than a Corvette for the money, most are way more expensive for the same type of performance.

Now the Vega on the other hand, it was rather questionable although they made a great drag car with a little swapping around of components.

My point is about the QUALITY of American cars and yes I was saying they are crap generally. You are referring to the GRADE (such as how fast it goes, how cool it goes or how many features it has).

Whereas the ISO9000 version of quality is essentially  the ability for the vehicle to continue performing it's operations without malfunction. 

So your point about grade and mine about quality are not mutually exclusive. 

If you want the best quality cars America is not the place to buy from. It's Japan or Korea and even then not all manufacturers.

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6 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Some were saying American cars were crap, etc. so responding to that. You are hard pressed to get a better sports car deal than a Corvette for the money, most are way more expensive for the same type of performance.

Now the Vega on the other hand, it was rather questionable although they made a great drag car with a little swapping around of components.

A new Mustang for those with a smaller purse :P

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1 hour ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Some were saying American cars were crap, etc. so responding to that. You are hard pressed to get a better sports car deal than a Corvette for the money, most are way more expensive for the same type of performance.

Now the Vega on the other hand, it was rather questionable although they made a great drag car with a little swapping around of components.

Best value performance car on the planet would have to be the Nissan GTR - blows off all the high-priced super cars for a fraction of their prices.

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2 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

 You are hard pressed to get a better sports car deal than a Corvette for the money...

Depends where you are mate... in the US, no doubt... In the UK? Europe? Japan? Australia? NZ?

Things get a bit more complicated... ;-)

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2 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Depends where you are mate... in the US, no doubt... In the UK? Europe? Japan? Australia? NZ?

Things get a bit more complicated... ;-)

I would guess it would make some difference with exchange rates, etc. Going by reviews and other writings most claim you have to get into the 6 figure range to get what a Vette does in the 5 figure area. Of course shipping, export duties, taxes, etc. add to the baseline.

I believe American quality has had to improve due to the imports that have moved-in since the 60's-70's where the imports were so much better on that front. While maybe not the top of the heap it is much better than what was coming out in the 70's & 80's. I don't think US automakers had any idea how to build a quality economy car for a number of years then they seemed to finally grasp what it takes, maybe from cross-pollination from some of the other brands or whatever. Somewhere along they line they seemed to figure something out.

Anyway, will we ever return to the NYYC team?

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5 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

You are hard pressed to get a better sports car deal than a Corvette for the money, most are way more expensive for the same type of performance.

That may well be true, when compared to other cars that qualify as Supercars.

I am most definitely not a track racer, or a gold-chains and tattoos kinda guy, or whatever the Vette-driver ‘image’ is. For me it was mostly practical: A comfortable car with comfortable seats, plenty of shoulder and elbow room, a soft convertible for going topless during treasured summer months up north here, and remarkably good gas mileage when you accelerate gently because the car is so light and the torque so effortless. I bought it used, paid half the $105k new price, with only 12K miles and a warranty still on it. Many, many cars around me, trucks and SUV’s, were more expensive, less comfortable, and are terrible gas guzzlers. No quality issues so far, just a couple minor warranty-covered recalls that get done at service time.

The Acura TLX Stingette drives is the best car I’ve owned, if I rate just comfort and ride. Different strokes; my plates may as well read NoKids:) and hers may as well read AndNoSilly:)

My next car will likely be electric.. unless passion for the coming-style mid-engine Vette gets to my heart!

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57 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Anyway, will we ever return to the NYYC team?

Given a total absence of press releases/news from them, I think you are expecting too much.

But that's ok, lets just temporarily re-label this the "talking shit about cars" forum and the problem is well solved) :)

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OK, I give...

As noted by SR several times over the years I prefer the classics of the muscle car era. The sports cars are neat and creative but I like the raw horsepower and the work that was going on in that arena from the 50's to the early 70's. Today's cars are all about how much they want to turn-up the wick. You could have 1,500 to 2,000 hp (or more) street cars if someone wanted to go that radical but they only put as much in it as they dare with the computer controls.

So, maybe one day when I get the old beater restored I may look at a Vette, but first things first.

 

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2 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

OK, I give...

As noted by SR several times over the years I prefer the classics of the muscle car era. The sports cars are neat and creative but I like the raw horsepower and the work that was going on in that arena from the 50's to the early 70's. Today's cars are all about how much they want to turn-up the wick. You could have 1,500 to 2,000 hp (or more) street cars if someone wanted to go that radical but they only put as much in it as they dare with the computer controls.

So, maybe one day when I get the old beater restored I may look at a Vette, but first things first.

 

There ya go! Soothes the soul, doesn't it?

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1 hour ago, ~HHN92~ said:

This is actually old news.

 

Back to car stories...

Just to humor you, my first cars were all 69’s - in order two Mustangs, a 442, then a Camaro. I did the whole trip into Muncy, Allison, tripods, Edelbrocks, 311’s, Micky T 50’s, etc. All great fun but was over it by age 19 when I got too busy with ‘better’ things, like needing to figure out how the hell to move out, pay for a nicer lifestyle, buy a home, and then eventually look into a newer car. My little brother still has a red 69 Vette Roadster and despite how crazy that damn car is to try drive - the big joy and relief is when you arrive at your destination and turn that f’ing monster off - I am actually very jealous of it.

Wish my history were more about sailboats but they have played a small part too, hopefully a bigger one not too long from now. A return to something ‘classic’ but in a PNW waters instead of Motor City Classics sense.

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Best (worst?) car I ever owned was a Mazda RX2 rotary. Scared myself shitless many times!

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Wifey has a srt jeep and loves it. I have a 1999 GMC Sierra reg cab truck and love it. Parts are all ordered on line from USA and most work is done myself, or through mates. When wifey was looking for a SUV we looked at the consumables for the euros like tuaregs and q7s and nearly shit my pants, the American stuff is so much cheaper even here, and it still runs brembos etc. 

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4 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Wifey has a srt jeep and loves it. I have a 1999 GMC Sierra reg cab truck and love it. Parts are all ordered on line from USA and most work is done myself, or through mates. When wifey was looking for a SUV we looked at the consumables for the euros like tuaregs and q7s and nearly shit my pants, the American stuff is so much cheaper even here, and it still runs brembos etc. 

European cars are outrageously priced and mediocre quality. I believe they actually panel beat them with gold leaf.

American cars are much cheaper but more mediocre in quality. 

Even some of the Japanese brands ain't great. 

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3 hours ago, jaysper said:

European cars are outrageously priced and mediocre quality. I believe they actually panel beat them with gold leaf.

American cars are much cheaper but more mediocre in quality. 

Even some of the Japanese brands ain't great. 

They have character though. I can't imagine trying to explain a cars character to German engineers. 

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10 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

They have character though. I can't imagine trying to explain a cars character to German engineers. 

They don't have a sense of humour, in my experience. For that matter, nor do the engineers. ;)

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6 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

They have character though. I can't imagine trying to explain a cars character to German engineers. 

Actually several of my friends are German and the younger generation don't seem to fit the stereotype like the older generation seem to.

But yeah, I could imagine trying to explain how cool a Ducati is to one of the older generation.

"It's like this see. It only starts on days with an 'R' in it but ain't it beautiful?"

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Actually several of my friends are German and the younger generation don't seem to fit the stereotype like the older generation seem to.

But yeah, I could imagine trying to explain how cool a Ducati is to one of the older generation.

"It's like this see. It only starts on days with an 'R' in it but ain't it beautiful?"

I've a lot of German friends too ;).
We're always in for an "emotional" car, even if the quality is shitty. The line should be drawn between people, who are passionate about something and those, who are indifferent towards cars, bikes, sailboats, anything...

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

I've a lot of German friends too ;).
We're always in for an "emotional" car, even if the quality is shitty. The line should be drawn between people, who are passionate about something and those, who are indifferent towards cars, bikes, sailboats, anything...

Does Rennman still race?

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Does Rennman still race?

No, he gave it up a couple of years ago. Several rallye drivers died that year, even professionals and people we knew, it was a bad year. The fun was gone. 
But of course, we're still interested, although messing around in boats is something too...

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6 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

I've a lot of German friends too ;).
We're always in for an "emotional" car, even if the quality is shitty. The line should be drawn between people, who are passionate about something and those, who are indifferent towards cars, bikes, sailboats, anything...

Actually  I must confess to being an (almost) strictly function/quality over form kind of person.

I love the way Alfa Romeos and Ducatis look, but I could never ever bring myself to buy one.

They are what I refer to as 9 to 5 vehicles. That's not the hours of the day they operate, but rather the odds that they will start tomorrow :D.

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5 minutes ago, rgeek said:

*wind blows through the branches, tumble weed rolls through the streets*

And the tumbleweed is faster than the Honda Civic Type R...

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