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12 hours ago, meanermachine said:

Great shot of the Defiant rudder system on the AC Instagram

 

Looks considerably agricultural compared to this.
55D5ED89-11D0-47FE-85F9-F3E9056D2B97.jpeg.9f2bf910cfb6e1e339aabf8dd6a7bf82.jpeg

 

CF2CD79E-246F-4505-A5BC-3A72931C82BA.jpeg

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41 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Looks considerably agricultural compared to this.
55D5ED89-11D0-47FE-85F9-F3E9056D2B97.jpeg.9f2bf910cfb6e1e339aabf8dd6a7bf82.jpeg

 

 

It does look pretty tricky but, it is an aged design already. Evidence shows this by way of the mushrooms growing on it.

Photo credit: Salty Seacock.

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11 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Any sign of any sailing yet in Pensacola. The mule did not appear to be sailing much in Newport. Are their any local webcams to check out?

their FB page has a picture of them sailing in Pensacola on Jan 16th.

 

 

DF7BDA9B-ABA7-4D9A-B513-8BD77E2A33BF.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Looks considerably agricultural compared to this.

Yeah the composite work looks rough. Their foils looked a bit rough as well.

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Well it's only B1 so if they have to hack it about a bit it's not the end of the world, still you'd hope their CAD work got things a bit closer than this....

 

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Just got directed to this article from the latest Tip and Shaft newsletter

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2020/01/23/american-magic-on-a-mission-of-mercy/ 

1. Foil arm issues have been keeping Magic off the water since they got to Pensacola (maybe fixed now as there was an instagram post recently of them back out)

2. Deano and Andrew Campbell (and probably a few others) are using a computer game style simulator for match racing practice using performance characteristics taken from their sailing data

3. Sounds like Andrew Campbell runs flight control from the front of the cockpit rather than back with Deano and Goodison - first mention of this crew placement that I heard about, do we know if other teams are running a similar set-up?

4. Ray Davies was in town to get a first hand look at Defiant - interesting that Davies would be on-site himself rather than using regular spy footage and feedback. Was he sent officially as part of the foil arm issues or are there characteristics of Defiant that ETNZ are really interested in..?

 

Also - I'm still intrigued as to why Magic still don't appear to have adopted a deck sweeper main - given the over-riding agreement from pretty much every team and expert that it's beneficial plus the fact Magic have the same central cockpit fairing it must be on the cards at some point???

 

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1 hour ago, NZK said:

Deano and Andrew Campbell (and probably a few others) are using a computer game style simulator for match racing practice using performance characteristics taken from their sailing data

E127E6EA-38FE-4C00-A909-80A78FC47500.thumb.jpeg.ad934a78cea01ca1b6bc3101dac5cea3.jpeg

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^Let's hope the plastics pyramid scheme is still producing skip loads of quarters...

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“. The schedule on Pensacola Bay had been thwarted by foil arm issues, a situation Hutchinson sees all teams facing, “

????

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20 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

“. The schedule on Pensacola Bay had been thwarted by foil arm issues, a situation Hutchinson sees all teams facing, “

????

Presumably that is why Ray Davies from TNZ is visiting them!

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Is any other team “facing foil arm issues”? Not that I’ve heard, just a problem with the spar by ...?

 

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Just now, Xlot said:

Is any other team “facing foil arm issues”? Not that I’ve heard, just a problem with the spar by ...?

 

Ineos.

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6 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

The more I see of the Emiratis - the more I like AM's chances.

The only team who has won with a first time challenge is Alinghi, and that was only because Ernesto bought Team NZ

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18 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

The more I see of the Emiratis - the more I like AM's chances.

Are you saying you we're rating them highly at the beginning?

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46 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Are you saying you we're rating them highly at the beginning?

Well, obviously it's the Emiratis' to lose. That's the way this thing works. They've held all the cards in terms of the design, events, rules, etc. from the beginning. So they SHOULD be "highly rated" just by that alone...things are always stacked in the Defender's favor.

As for me, I've never really held the Emiratis in high regard - although I do give them credit for their decisive victory in Bermuda, allowing them to finally get back on the board after a very long drought...

1328587792_ScreenShot2020-01-30at11_38.01AMcopy.thumb.png.0cbb21a3d64c648e36cd122fc874a6a0.png

Obviously, that was an aberration judging by history. So, like I've said, I'm no huge fan of NYYC - but it will be nice to get things back to normal.

 

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

The only team who has won with a first time challenge is Alinghi, and that was only because Ernesto bought Team NZ

What's Terry's AC record again?

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7 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

What's Terry's AC record again?

0-4

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15 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

What's Terry's AC record again?

Always got a job

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Doubt Casper all you want but do so at your own peril!  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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I love Terry quite a lot and consider him a friend.  He is a great dad and a great racer, but he ain't had a lot of luck in the AC or in foilers.

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13 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I love Terry quite a lot and consider him a friend.  He is a great dad and a great racer, but he ain't had a lot of luck in the AC or in foilers.

Presumably one could have said similar things about Grant Dalton up until they won it. Is there something specific about these recent cups that you think doesn't suit Terry?

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29 minutes ago, buckdouger said:

 Is there something specific about these recent cups that you think doesn't suit Terry?

Past performance is the best indicator of future performance.

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Isn't it the other way around:

Past performance is no guarantee of future results?

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Only if we're talking about investments and those who peddle them. Also, not talking about 'guarantee'.

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19 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Isn't it the other way around:

Past performance is no guarantee of future results?

True.

 

94B4EA3A-261C-4203-A1BA-EF48C8E07505.thumb.jpeg.9658aa095b50e7738bf2c08892af9297.jpeg

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I love Terry quite a lot and consider him a friend.  He is a great dad and a great racer, but he ain't had a lot of luck in the AC or in foilers.

Same with Deano.  Maybe by combining their life forces they can get over the hump?  Would be a great story.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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18 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Same with Deano.  Maybe by combining their life forces they can get over the hump?  Would be a great story.

WetHog  :ph34r:

They already have. Deano was skipper in 2007, and Terry was his tactician. 

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19 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Same with Deano.  Maybe by combining their life forces they can get over the hump?  Would be a great story.

WetHog  :ph34r:

 Holy shit, Hoggie. Imagine that... Yeah, nah. Too cruel to contemplate. 

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

They already have. Deano was skipper in 2007, and Terry was his tactician. 

Never quite got over the hump though.

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28 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

They already have. Deano was skipper in 2007, and Terry was his tactician. 

Yeah forgot about that.  Never mind.  They both are fucked.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Is there any news from Pensacola that the mule has been sailing. At this rate they will run out if time as they need to pack up and head for Sardinia before too long.

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27 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Is there any news from Pensacola that the mule has been sailing. At this rate they will run out if time as they need to pack up and head for Sardinia before too long.

Word on the street is that they're testing new stealth technology. It seems to be working.

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7 hours ago, Raptorsailor said:

Word on the street is that they're testing new stealth technology. It seems to be working.

Does the protocol cover “invisibility”mode.

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It's not invisible, but I heard whispers that they are sailing faster than light, which is why nobody sees them. 

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It's not the speed, it's the special camouflage created by an SA poster and MIT grad who also worked on the F-35.

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10 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Is there any news from Pensacola that the mule has been sailing. At this rate they will run out if time as they need to pack up and head for Sardinia before too long.

If only one of their sponsors had a big new cargo jet they wanted to showcase.....

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4 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Does the protocol cover “invisibility”mode.

No, but sailors have to be 'human' apparently. 

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I have heard rumors locally that they have access through the Navy base to the new 'Space Camouflage' technology that Trumps Space Farce recently announced.

Looks pretty good on him...

6e4054abffd9b64e6a8e5dada82b1a10.jpg

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1 hour ago, SCARECROW said:

If only one of their sponsors had a big new cargo jet they wanted to showcase.....

I'll let you guys know if I see one of these flying over me house!

Image result for beluga airbus xl"

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That looks more like a RI shoreline in the pic as well..? Old photo that just got the OK for release?

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Geez, first you guys say bow down is fast, but when devosamente does it it's bad?

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12 hours ago, RMac said:

Geez, first you guys say bow down is fast, but when devosamente does it it's bad?

It was very fast. Then very not fast.

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Is it me or does it look like they re-worked the center section of the boat to “close-off” the gap on the boom and sail instead of making the sail go lower?

6C9E3643-661C-4146-9DE8-5ED023C2C544.jpeg

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3 minutes ago, nav said:

:blink: I wasn't expecting that....

It looks stupid.  Wonder what the appeal over a soft extension of the sail is? 

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28 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

Is it me or does it look like they re-worked the center section of the boat to “close-off” the gap on the boom and sail instead of making the sail go lower?

6C9E3643-661C-4146-9DE8-5ED023C2C544.jpeg

Either that or they have a new boom. Although the centre pod endplate thing looks different. 

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Same boom, but I think they might have gotten new runners. The old ones always looked like they were too long and hitting the deck trimmed on. 

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40 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

Is it me or does it look like they re-worked the center section of the boat to “close-off” the gap on the boom and sail instead of making the sail go lower?

6C9E3643-661C-4146-9DE8-5ED023C2C544.jpeg

The point is to eliminate the gap between the sail and the deck.  Either you extend the sail or you extend the deck.  This allows them to use their “traditional” boom and not have to mess with some sail fitting.  It actually is a simple solution, just depends on if it is as efficient.

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4 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

The point is to eliminate the gap between the sail and the deck.  Either you extend the sail or you extend the deck.  This allows them to use their “traditional” boom and not have to mess with some sail fitting.  It actually is a simple solution, just depends on if it is as efficient.

I understand why they did it. Just noticed thrust change as was looking affirmation.

I too think it’s a simple solution if it is efficient. Maybe it isn’t as efficient, but having a traditional boom is better at controlling the double skin sail?

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21 minutes ago, RMac said:

It looks stupid.  Wonder what the appeal over a soft extension of the sail is? 

Could be that having a traditional boom allows for better twin skin sail control. Also, simpler is sometimes better. KISS...Keep It Simple Stupid.

Everything design decision is a question of trade-offs. Efficiency, control, simplicity, etc...

I bet we’re seeing what they will try to accomplish with boat 2. Boat 2 could have it done in a more elegant manner than this after thought method.

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& with a couple of hinges & a latch you have great spot to stash a cooler full of beer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But that would be drinking & boating, which is dangerous or something.

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32 minutes ago, I14RACER said:

I understand why they did it. Just noticed thrust change as was looking affirmation.

I too think it’s a simple solution if it is efficient. Maybe it isn’t as efficient, but having a traditional boom is better at controlling the double skin sail?

Just look at the picture of Defiant sailing in Pensacola below (before the deck change).  Notice how the twins sails extend differently on the boom.  Also, notice how much the windows are out of alignment between the two sails.  That indicates that there is a major gap between the twin sails.  Do not underestimate the AM design.  They have been very quiet and are following Teddy philosophy of “speak softly and carry a big stick”.  NYYC says “we will be competitive”.

image.jpeg.bcd22e1e2f8979d036690305c0fda2f5.jpeg

 

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No shortage of BBQ in PCola. They have a whole Island dedicated to BBQ!

Image result for chistorra

 

    This looks like they have the BBQ wagon ready to load up on the big Airbus with both boats for the haul to Caligari...

00pensacolabbq.jpg

 

Some of those NYYC types need to put some 'South in Your Mouth'!

Image result for 'South in Your Mouth'! BBQ

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Just look at the picture of Defiant sailing in Pensacola below (before the deck change).  Notice how the twins sails extend differently on the boom.  Also, notice how much the windows are out of alignment between the two sails.  That indicates that there is a major gap between the twin sails.  Do not underestimate the AM design.  They have been very quiet and are following Teddy philosophy of “speak softly and carry a big stick”.  NYYC says “we will be competitive”.

image.jpeg.bcd22e1e2f8979d036690305c0fda2f5.jpeg

 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/opinion/104068007/on-the-fence-the-history-of-number-8-wire

 

John-Deere-Tractor.png

Edited by NZL3481

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

 Do not underestimate the AM design.  They have been very quiet and are following Teddy philosophy of “speak softly and carry a big stick”.  NYYC says “we will be competitive”.

Still very suspicious that they appear to have had so little time on the water.

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3 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Still very suspicious that they appear to have had so little time on the water.

Note use of the word 'appear'. NYYC have had and will probably continue to have the smallest media footprint of all the AC teams. 

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11 minutes ago, Raptorsailor said:

Note use of the word 'appear'. NYYC have had and will probably continue to have the smallest media footprint of all the AC teams. 

I think that’s the big key. They don’t seem to care about any pre-race PR to appease sponsors. We don’t really know what they’re up to. I’m not claiming that has them ahead in anyway, it’s just an unknown. 

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Strong like bull.  Smart like american tractor.

We do make nice tractors. 

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4 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

The point is to eliminate the gap between the sail and the deck.

They haven't totally eliminated the gap though. It looks like a bodgy add on and not part of a coherent design evolution. It's like someone verbalised a thought bubble whilst having a few beers, and they said - yeah lets do that....gets the composite team off their arses from browsing porn all day.

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

I think that’s the big key. They don’t seem to care about any pre-race PR to appease sponsors. We don’t really know what they’re up to. I’m not claiming that has them ahead in anyway, it’s just an unknown. 

They do not have large sponsors that are expecting extensive PR.  Airbus is mostly engineering support, not money.  The major cash is coming from the team members and NYYC.

Just because you don’t hear anything, don’t assume they are doing nothing.

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10 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

They haven't totally eliminated the gap though. It looks like a bodgy add on and not part of a coherent design evolution. It's like someone verbalised a thought bubble whilst having a few beers, and they said - yeah lets do that....gets the composite team off their arses from browsing porn all day.

Truly tragic then that they can't build a second boat which would benefit from testing something like that...

Oh wait...

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14 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

Truly tragic then that they can't build a second boat which would benefit from testing something like that...

Oh wait...

Exactly!

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10 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

They haven't totally eliminated the gap though. It looks like a bodgy add on and not part of a coherent design evolution. It's like someone verbalised a thought bubble whilst having a few beers, and they said - yeah lets do that....gets the composite team off their arses from browsing porn all day.

You really think it was just an after thought and they had no idea that they may want to close the gap?  Really, spend hundreds of millions of $’s and thousands of hours on developing a new type of boat and not even think about drag on the bottom of the sail?

The final design may be spruced up a bit, but it looks like AM thinks it is more critical to use the boom to get the proper control of the dual sails than to try and hide it inside the sails.  The small gap can be closed by a sweeper brush or flap.  The design is very simple in that the boom can easily move and keep a consistent gap.  Don’t forget that one of the major team members is a sail maker.

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5 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

The point is to eliminate the gap between the sail and the deck.  Either you extend the sail or you extend the deck.  This allows them to use their “traditional” boom and not have to mess with some sail fitting.  It actually is a simple solution, just depends on if it is as efficient.

Simple, exactly. Guessing that‘s also lighter than an articulated boom inside the sail. 

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16 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

You really think it was just an after thought and they had no idea that they may want to close the gap?

Umm yeah okay. Step 204558 build and install large plastic thing on the centre line ramp - check.

25 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

t it looks like AM thinks it is more critical to use the boom to get the proper control of the dual sails than to try and hide it inside the sails.

ETNZ/LR seems to have achieved both in their first iteration. Development time is short, why fuck about with a set up you know you're going to change later?

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24 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Umm yeah okay. Step 204558 build and install large plastic thing on the centre line ramp - check.

ETNZ/LR seems to have achieved both in their first iteration. Development time is short, why fuck about with a set up you know you're going to change later?

In fairness to them, ETNZ have probably had the best part of 6 months additional design time to spend on this detail stuff...

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46 minutes ago, flutter said:

Simple, exactly. Guessing that‘s also lighter than an articulated boom inside the sail. 

And a whole bunch cheaper.

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37 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Umm yeah okay. Step 204558 build and install large plastic thing on the centre line ramp - check.

ETNZ/LR seems to have achieved both in their first iteration. Development time is short, why fuck about with a set up you know you're going to change later?

Are you sure they have achieved both in their first iteration? All we have seen is some promo photos and videos. We don’t know if their sail shape and controls are the best until we see them race against others. All conjecture otherwise.

Im sure the engineers on AM have thought this all out. Perhaps they didn’t think the performance trade offs for a deck sweeper weren’t worth it.

You’ve seen the boats deck sweeper solutions up to now. They have aIl shape issues or gaps at the ends of their sails. AM’s have looked pretty darn good so far.

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3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

You really think it was just an after thought and they had no idea that they may want to close the gap?  Really, spend hundreds of millions of $’s and thousands of hours on developing a new type of boat and not even think about drag on the bottom of the sail?

The final design may be spruced up a bit, but it looks like AM thinks it is more critical to use the boom to get the proper control of the dual sails than to try and hide it inside the sails.  The small gap can be closed by a sweeper brush or flap.  The design is very simple in that the boom can easily move and keep a consistent gap.  Don’t forget that one of the major team members is a sail maker.

Nah I would suggest that the design team ran out of time or funds for their rig 2.0 before Sardinia. So this is the bodged version. I am sure they will get there :rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, I14RACER said:

Are you sure they have achieved both in their first iteration?

ETNZ/LR had deck sweepers from day one. Ben didn't have one straight away but fitted one pretty quick albeit a bit bodgy. ETNZ's test boat had a deck sweeper from the get go.

3 hours ago, I14RACER said:

Im sure the engineers on AM have thought this all out.

Yeah I wouldn't be worried, they look to be doing things a bit different - nothing wrong with that. As Jimmy said, they look good in their manoeuvers. They seem to be using B1 to get comfortable with sailing the new concept, and will fit B2 with all their go fast tweaks and features.

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3 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

eah I wouldn't be worried, they look to be doing things a bit different - nothing wrong with that. As Jimmy said, they look good in their manoeuvers. They seem to be using B1 to get comfortable with sailing the new concept, and will fit B2 with all their go fast tweaks and features.

Too bad about the skipper tho. Do they have a second? Like maybe have them both run a course and see who is faster?

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48 minutes ago, barfy said:

Do they have a second?

With their resources they'd be crazy not to have a backup helm - heck he might even be an American? Hutch and Deano have sailed a lot together so AM are probably comfortable with that setup. A poor performance in the ACWS might see that change. 

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

With their resources they'd be crazy not to have a backup helm - heck he might even be an American? Hutch and Deano have sailed a lot together so AM are probably comfortable with that setup. A poor performance in the ACWS might see that change. 

Bora Gulari?

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

Bora Gulari?

Is that the name of a sailor or an Italian sports car?

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38 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Is that the name of a sailor or an Italian sports car?

This is funny 

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12 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

In fairness to them, ETNZ have probably had the best part of 6 months additional design time to spend on this detail stuff...

Well, a deck sweeper is something that could be taken for granted under any Rule ...

 

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4 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Is that the name of a sailor or an Italian sports car?

More like a Turkish sports car.  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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