Barnyb

Team NYYC

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4 minutes ago, RumLine said:

I know for a fact that NYYC was meeting with Botin and planning on foiling monohulls as early as September, prior to any announcement.  Knowing some of the people involved, these are people that do their homework and aren't interested in fucking around or catching up.  There's certainly going to be a learning curve for every team, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out for every syndicate, but I wouldn't count anyone out just yet.

Noted, thanks

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49 minutes ago, RumLine said:

It seems to me that you guys are spending a lot of time talking out of your ass...I don't spend a lot of time in the AC forums, but I feel a certain connection to this thread.

I know for a fact that NYYC was meeting with Botin and planning on foiling monohulls as early as September, prior to any announcement.  Knowing some of the people involved, these are people that do their homework and aren't interested in fucking around or catching up.  There's certainly going to be a learning curve for every team, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out for every syndicate, but I wouldn't count anyone out just yet.

The 52 Super Series may not be the best trainer for the next AC Class, but it's a great marketing tool and an important stepping stone to building the right team.

Welcome to your nightmare - SAAC.

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14 hours ago, 2Newts said:

"There will be work to do in the sailing team too. Hutchinson and his crewmates will do training camps in the Moth, a one-man hydroplaning dinghy, to learn the art of foiling."

OK, so, the NYYC team is learning how to foil. Meanwhile the ENTZ team has already done it REALLY WELL for two cup cycles based in part on LR experience and technology and even crash-em-up Ben has some hard earned experience in boats WAY bigger and more complex than Moths. 

There is no way the NYYC team becomes competitive to win if this is the starting point. 

Not a "starting point", a part of the whole. More than a few AC sailors have incorporated Mothism into their programmes, including some guy called Burling http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11897022

 

 

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9 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Not a "starting point", a part of the whole.

That's not what he said. He said, quite clearly, that the team will be doing training camps to learn the art of foiling. He could have used other words. He could have said "we will be sailing Moths intensively to keep our skills sharp and learn new techniques." But he didn't. 

He said his team is going to learn the art of foiling. 

That may have been a slip of the tongue, or it may be mis-reported. But it certainly implies that his team is FAR FAR FAR behind all three of the of the other teams in terms of knowing what makes a large, crewed, fully-foiling machine go faster and higher than another similar large, crewed, fully-foiling machine. 

 

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15 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Funny, there was a quote in a German article by Carsten Kemmling recently that I may not have posted, where he quoted John Boyd (Seahorse Magazine) saying about the AC75:

’It looks like it is about to come out of the water, crawl up the beach and lay eggs.’

Yeah laugh it up - hey and do you remember the fun everyone had with those fake photos when ETNZ tried to con the world that they had an AC72 completely airborn in Auckland - OMG, those jokers eh.....

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Love this team but who is going to beat ETNZ at their own game? Not a contest until someone at NYYC starts lose some serious sleep rather than worry about their pay cheque.!

 

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46 minutes ago, 2Newts said:

That's not what he said. He said, quite clearly, that the team will be doing training camps to learn the art of foiling. He could have used other words. He could have said "we will be sailing Moths intensively to keep our skills sharp and learn new techniques." But he didn't. 

He said his team is going to learn the art of foiling. 

That may have been a slip of the tongue, or it may be mis-reported. But it certainly implies that his team is FAR FAR FAR behind all three of the of the other teams in terms of knowing what makes a large, crewed, fully-foiling machine go faster and higher than another similar large, crewed, fully-foiling machine. 

 

Well, if anything TH's consistent: remember how he went to an A-Class training camp to learn cat sailing at the onset of AC34?

 

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On 10/29/2017 at 2:54 PM, ~Stingray~ said:

JD Power is all about surveying the customer. RepairPal (full disclosure: I work there) uses repair data. Results are pretty similar, but RP has more data and detail. https://repairpal.com/reliability

 

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Was this the meandering thread where TC has posted some ‘other’ kinds of flying? Anyway, nice one here - cool venue scenery too, I climbed Table Mountain a few times some years back, it’s gorgeous.

 

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Mr. Fauth and Terry spoke at the NYYC annual meeting last night, reported lots of progress, still lots more to do but very encouraging.  Overall concept is “win and defend,” meaning create a multi-generational team that both wins the current edition and seamlessly rolls in to defending the next.  Some very exciting announcements coming up that will broaden the team and its base of support.  Club is all-in and I think the team will soon start attracting support from the broader US sailing community.  

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2 hours ago, Annapolis 105er said:

 I think the team will soon start attracting support from the broader US sailing community.  

Only if it ain't a kiwi fest aboard

 

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11 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Only if it ain't a kiwi fest aboard

 

Totally agree!

It really wasn't that long ago an all USA team could/did work

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^

Full of fine sentiments,  low on specifics. If they are serious, good for them. However it will take longer a single Cup cycle to really make a difference.

 

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

What is Roger Penske's (he of car racing fame?) role in BMQR?

Bingo, that must be the Roger that was referred to, as being on the Board along with Hap Fauth and Doug de Vos.

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7 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

Bingo, that must be the Roger that was referred to, as being on the Board along with Hap Fauth and Doug de Vos.

Wasn't aware he's also a sailor. References?

Edit: googled it, and guess what

 

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Really impressed with the Bella Mente Quantum guys talking yesterday.

T Hutch is professional through and through, always known him as one of the good guys in the sport with real ethics in what he does.

This team could be a powerful challenge and seems well financed.

I am a Brit and never thought I would be so pleased to see a strong American team!

 

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11 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Deans back!

 

Really glad for Dean. Wishing him all the best...

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Informative presentation.  Hearing Roger Penske is one of the principles is exciting and I am already making plans to be in Newport in a couple years and maybe SE Florida if that happens for pre-regatta's.

I am optimistic for a good showing from Casper and his crew after watching their keynote presentation but they have a long way to go to pull it off.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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23 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

They are welcome to him. The irony is that there will be little in the way of close racing/ match racing in the next AC. It will be a design contest.

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11 minutes ago, dorydude said:

They are welcome to him. The irony is that there will be little in the way of close racing/ match racing in the next AC. It will be a design contest.

Its always been a design contest. Always.

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

Its always been a design contest. Always.

Correct, but much more so this time - first AC in a totally new class.

Teams would be much better served by a Superfoiler campaign than TP52s. They need creative thinkers and fearless test pilots creating and sailing bizarre experimental craft. ETNZ won the last Cup by thinking waaay outside the box in a restricted class with a lot of one design components. The innovation opportunities for the next contest are endless. At the moment, just about every major component on the boats will be unlike anything that currently exists in sailing.

Winning the Med Cup and/or Congressional Cup will achieve little towards an AC win.

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34 minutes ago, dorydude said:

Correct, but much more so this time - first AC in a totally new class.

Teams would be much better served by a Superfoiler campaign than TP52s. They need creative thinkers and fearless test pilots creating and sailing bizarre experimental craft. ETNZ won the last Cup by thinking waaay outside the box in a restricted class with a lot of one design components. The innovation opportunities for the next contest are endless. At the moment, just about every major component on the boats will be unlike anything that currently exists in sailing.

Winning the Med Cup and/or Congressional Cup will achieve little towards an AC win.

No one knows what the actual opportunities are until the Class Rule is published next month, and no one, including the teams know what the ideal class to train and test is yet. Grant Simmer stated they had been looking around for a suitable test class/ platform which would be ideal for a testing/ training program, but they still hadn't found it. 

Winning anything including a Medcup/ Congressional Cup would be a great starting point if for nothing more than to prove your team works together well as a group. 

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

No one knows what the actual opportunities are until the Class Rule is published next month

Seriously - You don’t think that ETNZ already knows?

The rumor about them already (!) testing a new ‘wing’ on a trimaran somewhere in NZ rings true to me, reputable sources don’t just make up stuff like that. 

But agree with the value of ‘team’ training, BAR and LR and QR are for sure gettting deep into that part starting now.

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30 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Seriously - You don’t think that ETNZ already knows?

The rumor about them already (!) testing a new ‘wing’ on a trimaran somewhere in NZ rings true to me, reputable sources don’t just make up stuff like that. 

But agree with the value of ‘team’ training, BAR and LR and QR are for sure gettting deep into that part starting now.

i wouldn't be surprised if they are just holding it back for a month for some easy gains

probably sharing some info to luna rossa too for good measure hahaha

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

The rumor about <x team doing y> rings true to me, reputable sources don’t just make up stuff like that. 

replace x with ETNZ, OTUSA, ALINGHI etc

replace y with secret wing test, cheating in AC34, punching puppies etc

See? You're better than that mate...

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4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Seriously - You don’t think that ETNZ already knows?

The rumor about them already (!) testing a new ‘wing’ on a trimaran somewhere in NZ rings true to me, reputable sources don’t just make up stuff like that. 

But agree with the value of ‘team’ training, BAR and LR and QR are for sure gettting deep into that part starting now.

Once the Class rule is finalized, ETNZ will know like everyone else will. 

"The rumor about them already (!) testing a new ‘wing’ on a trimaran somewhere in NZ rings true to me" If it is indeed true, due diligence means you test something to ensure it works and meets all objectives. Perhaps Oracle should've done that before they released the AC62 rule. 

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2 hours ago, inebriated said:

i wouldn't be surprised if they are just holding it back for a month for some easy gains

probably sharing some info to luna rossa too for good measure hahaha

I wouldn't be surprised if you're surprised by anything, because you don't know shit hahaha

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14 hours ago, rh2600 said:

replace x with ETNZ, OTUSA, ALINGHI etc

replace y with secret wing test, cheating in AC34, punching puppies etc

See? You're better than that mate...

23m92de.jpg

WetHog  :ph34r:

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COR/D announced they would be exploring alternative wing/sail concepts. Someone has to test them before one of them can be decided on and included in the rule.

Naturally that makes it tin-foil-hat-time for the spinboy - anything for spite.....

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1 minute ago, nav said:

COR/D announced they would be exploring alternative wing/sail concepts. Someone has to test them before one of them can be decided on and included in the rule.

This late? Maybe.

My point was more along the lines of the new rig being a possibly-large development area and that, yes, ETNZ may be getting a head start on it.

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There is no question that ETNZ is getting a head start if they are doing anything beyond conceptual modeling. Empirical testing at this stage would be a huge advantage.

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2 minutes ago, Xlot said:

At this stage, rig tests not fully shared with other teams would be unconscionable

A bit premature to claim that. For all we know, the data from any "rig tests" are being incorporated into the AC75 Class Rule to define design and performance parameters of the rigs.

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

At this stage, rig tests not fully shared with other teams would be unconscionable

Agreed, although it’s possible that other teams have the same opportunity - IF they have the same insider final-Rule intention-intuition. 

It’s possible the reason for the recent change to the Prot to include multihulls > 40’ as being illegal, was insisted on by team(s) other than ETNZ when they got wind of the plan. TE did not reveal the source of the rumor but imo it is less likely to have been ETNZ-based than from in QR or BAR circles.

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On 2/21/2018 at 11:44 PM, Stingray~ said:

Agreed, although it’s possible that other teams have the same opportunity - IF they have the same insider final-Rule intention-intuition. 

It’s possible the reason for the recent change to the Prot to include multihulls > 40’ as being illegal, was insisted on by team(s) other than ETNZ when they got wind of the plan. TE did not reveal the source of the rumor but imo it is less likely to have been ETNZ-based than from in QR or BAR circles.

What 'plan' is it that you invented in your head now that allows you to take yet another dig at ETNZ?

Even for you that ^ is garbled - mud (is it mud?) flying in all directions....

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On 2/23/2018 at 6:25 AM, nav said:

What 'plan' is it that you invented in your head now that allows you to take yet another dig at ETNZ?

Even for you that ^ is garbled - mud (is it mud?) flying in all directions....

Invented in my head, or an exclusive scoop heard via a reputable source, TE at Sailing Illustrated?

Bite it.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/101711195/team-new-zealands-breakthrough-sail-design-for-next-americas-cup

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Oh dear spin-boy, yet another of your anti-kiwi conspiracy theories burned. Nothing to see here :lol:

As I said it would be.......the article states (and GA confirms in the video) that they are testing the concept before deciding how to write the final rule.

Bummer for you eh, maybe spend a little more time finding a decent team to support before coming out with the next angry Pinot inspired talking point?

1519467299745.jpg

 

 

1519467299745.jpg

ETNZ

 

 

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2 hours ago, nav said:

that they are testing the concept before deciding how to write the final rule.

You don't see that in any way as giving ETNZ a huge advantage. By the time the rule is published, ETNZ will have a 6 month head start on all the other teams. When Alinghi did that, Grant Dalton said it was unfair and was very detrimental to all challengers.

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3 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

You don't see that in any way as giving ETNZ a huge advantage. By the time the rule is published, ETNZ will have a 6 month head start on all the other teams. When Alinghi did that, Grant Dalton said it was unfair and was very detrimental to all challengers.

What would you prefer? They write in an untested innovation as the rule? So that the boats don't actually work?

Then you'd just lay into ETNZ for being incompetent and fucking the cup.

If it's one design at the end of the day its pretty much moot anyway.

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It's the first time I can remember a defender actually testing ideas ahead of a rule release. I believe that if they are so uncertain about it that they need to test it, there is no need for it in the cup. What team wouldn't like a 3 month lead on all the other teams when it comes to an innovation nobody else has tried.

ETNZ have always set a higher standard than others when they have been the defender and they have always played fair as a challenger, but it's hard not to notice that when Oracle became the defender they asked an outside company (M&M) to write the rule for a brand new and untested class without tying them into the team but now ETNZ are doing all the rule development and testing in house, giving them an advantage. While I understand that as defender they can do whatever they want and they are breaking no rules, the optic isn't great and I am surprised they want to be seen working to a lesser standard than Oracle in any area.

Quote

If it's one design at the end of the day its pretty much moot anyway

It would be pretty stupid making an undeveloped innovation one design. Soft wings are in their infancy and need to be properly developed.

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45 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

It's the first time I can remember a defender actually testing ideas ahead of a rule release. I believe that if they are so uncertain about it that they need to test it, there is no need for it in the cup. What team wouldn't like a 3 month lead on all the other teams when it comes to an innovation nobody else has tried.

ETNZ have always set a higher standard than others when they have been the defender and they have always played fair as a challenger, but it's hard not to notice that when Oracle became the defender they asked an outside company (M&M) to write the rule for a brand new and untested class without tying them into the team but now ETNZ are doing all the rule development and testing in house, giving them an advantage. While I understand that as defender they can do whatever they want and they are breaking no rules, the optic isn't great and I am surprised they want to be seen working to a lesser standard than Oracle in any area.

It would be pretty stupid making an undeveloped innovation one design. Soft wings are in their infancy and need to be properly developed.

What makes you think they are so uncertain about it? Anything new has to be tested. That much is obvious. 

The reason ETNZ are doing all the testing and simulation themselves is because NO ONE, even themselves has sailed anything close to what they have come up with. The Optic is great, as it proves, and continues the reputation ETNZ has of being able to introduce a brand new, unique and innovative concept. There's no doubt ETNZ have always been the one team to innovate more than anyone. No one has been as continually innovative as Team New Zealand, in whatever iteration they have been involved. 

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Yeah, the innovative nature kind of makes development and testing of the sail a necessity. Maybe they could make their findings more open and share it all with the world?

im Not really sure what’s best, but it would be a mistake to push the innovation so hard without any testing. 

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Bloody brilliant concept in my view.

No need to crane the rig in and out daily and that is a huge saver of both time and money.

No boom? is a real game changer and the concept would not be out of place in the sport boat market.

 

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Bloody brilliant concept in my view.

No need to crane the rig in and out daily and that is a huge saver of both time and money.

No boom? is a real game changer and the concept would not be out of place in the sport boat market.

 

I have almost exactly this reaction. I imagine that many have thought of something like this. I have. But to make it work, that is very awesome, and if it works in the AC, that is wicked awesome! The no boom thing I think was Ian Farrier, among others. I wonder if that tri is a Fariier 22?

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On 2/22/2018 at 10:20 AM, Xlot said:

At this stage, rig tests not fully shared with other teams would be unconscionable

Agreed. I have to say that ETNZ are making me pretty nervous right now.

I hope they intend to remain righteous. 

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4 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

 

ETNZ have always set a higher standard than others when they have been the defender and they have always played fair as a challenger, but it's hard not to notice that when Oracle became the defender they asked an outside company (M&M) to write the rule for a brand new and untested class without tying them into the team but now ETNZ are doing all the rule development and testing in house, giving them an advantage.

Similarly the IACC rule was developed by a group of leading designers, not exclusively by SDYC.

Less ethical than Larry would not really be such a great place to be. I guess they could share their design work with other teams up to the point of rule publication. I'd guess they won't.

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43 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Similarly the IACC rule was developed by a group of leading designers, not exclusively by SDYC.

Less ethical than Larry would not really be such a great place to be. I guess they could share their design work with other teams up to the point of rule publication. I'd guess they won't.

I honestly don’t see where LE was unethical. I think he and his team did a great job of creating a level playing field with extraordinary new boats in two successive cups, which is born out in the results: AC34 was the closest in history, and a challenger won AC35 with a second team (Artemis) that IMO had a real shot at beating OR had they made it to the final.

I also don’t think what we’re seeing here is unethical behavior - in reality, ETNZ have really put themselves in a design space corner by simultaneously insisting that the cup can only be ‘legitimate’ if sailed in monohulls with soft sails, yet that the performance will equal that of the AC 50s. So here we are with a completely untested boat concept - basically a trimaran with articulated negative buoyancy foil amas that vaguely looks like a ‘monohull’, and now an attempt at a wing that looks somewhat like a ‘sail’. Rather than looking at this testing as ETNZ trying to ‘get a leg up’, look at it as them being very conscientious about trying to really deliver on their promises.

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LE and his minions ended up doing practically everything of which they accused EB, with the one exception that they used a deed-legal club through which to defend. Ethics, morality, hypocrisy?  Whatever one's choice of words, it was a singularly unattractive spectacle.

Having positioned themselves as the new white knight here to save the Cup, ETNZ needs to live up to that. Awarding themselves a six month design lead isn't a great start. Team GBR has pointed out that in the LE era, rule design work was contracted out. I've remarked that SDYC did the same for the IACC rule. ETNZ is unique in performing that work in-house, hence giving themselves a major design lead.

 

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^ Not disagreeing with any of that - my point was that (IMO) this is driven more by desperation to deliver on their very optimistic promises in an extremely tight timeframe rather than straight up self-serving malice.

The optics still aren’t good, to be sure.

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LE did pretty much everything he hated with EB, are we going to see the same with GD ? the first being a protocol where competitors others than the CoR are nothing, the second being the huge tech advance regarding the sail ?

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Which really shows beauty is in the eye of the beholder. AC33 was a farce and AC34 wasn't much better. AC35 was actually quite good but nothing has been "epic" for me since Fremantle. I'm not actually all that interested in the boats, I am interested in the sailing and in the economics and the "politics".

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I grew up seeing the cup in Newport - we sailed my dad’s boat up there in the 70s - kind of drifted away from it when it moved (seemingly permanently) to the Southern Hemisphere, and then the multis and wingsails brought me back.

For me, SF was mind blowing -  I was there, on the water for some of it, and the AC72s were the J boats of the new millennium. I grew up in a house that overlooked sandy hook bay, where the Js were originally raced, as a kid I used to dream about that era, and then here it was, back again in some futuristic form - seeing those boats with 130’ wings blasting past the SF cityfront at 45 kts was as cool as sailing gets. But as awesome as the boats were, it was also obvious that class was unsustainable, especially once they started foiling. So I was ok with the 50s, and to me the racing in Bermuda was great, especially the semis.

 

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1 hour ago, surfsailor said:

^ Maybe that’s what it takes to make a great cup? I dunno - I wasn’t super impressed with AC33, but the last two were epic.

I actually thought 07 was an excellent event despite Ernie being a total sack of shit and that 95 was as epic as 87.

13 and 17 were pretty fucking shit though, even though we won the 17 event.

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why does everyone shit on the 17 cup so bad??

it was in a beautiful location with objectively awesome boats

sure, the racing in the match was not the closest, but the LV cup was amazing racing and it's not like the cup match is often very close, look at all the previous scores of the matches,, the losing boat is usually on 0 or 1

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6 hours ago, inebriated said:

why does everyone shit on the 17 cup so bad??

it was in a beautiful location with objectively awesome boats

sure, the racing in the match was not the closest, but the LV cup was amazing racing and it's not like the cup match is often very close, look at all the previous scores of the matches,, the losing boat is usually on 0 or 1

Boats were shit. (The 72's were cool, but far too expensive adding to the "rich mans sport" reputation the Cup was trying to leave behind) Boats were too small, with too less crew, who weren't even sailing as such, just pumping oil around the boat. Too many one design components making the boats all look the same (Except ETNZ). All angles of sail looked the same (no sail changes) in other events we always saw sail changes upwind/ downwind. Not enough match racing, it was all just banging the corners. Courses were too short due to TV schedules, no race village dock out ceremony as we saw in every other Cup. Not enough competitors (especially in 2013). The commentary was terrible. They had no personality, and no passion for what was happening, and were struggling to understand the technical aspects of the boats, and how they worked, which was exactly what everyone wanted to know. At least PJ Montgomery knew what was happening when he was commentating the Cup. The commentary between him and Chris Law in San Diego and Auckland was fantastic! PJ had the personality, and Chris Law knew his stuff technically in regards to the boats and how they worked, and how they worked the course. 

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2 hours ago, sclarke said:

The 72's were cool, but far too expensive

This is really funny. You do realise that most think this new design for the next AC will cost just as much as the 72's

Quote

All angles of sail looked the same (no sail changes) in other events we always saw sail changes upwind/ downwind. 

Again, you haven't understood what is going on. If the new boats are going to be anywhere near the speed of the AC50's as claimed, the big kite isn't going to be used except in very light winds (say sub 6-7 knots). These boays will use the same sail configuration upwind and down in most conditions

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17 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

This is really funny. You do realise that most think this new design for the next AC will cost just as much as the 72's

Its funny how in 2013, everyone bagged Onorato when he withdrew sighting financial concerns, then they did the same when the Oatleys did the same. There was the "If you don't have the cash, get out" and "If you can't stand the heat, get outta the kitchen" and "Oh well, its a billionaires sport anyway not a millionaires sport" and "Oh well see ya later then" now suddenly, its a big thing, even though there are obvious areas where ETNZ has already saved cash. No cranes, no big launch crew, and even though ETNZ (the guys who actually know whats going on) have actually stated the costs of building a boat are relatively small, its the people that are a big part of the team budget, which is an area where costs are already being reduced. Where are those same calls that you all gave Onorato and the Oatleys? Dalton has continually been able to raise enough cash to compete. If New Zealand can compete, so can everyone else. 

Again, you haven't understood what is going on. If the new boats are going to be anywhere near the speed of the AC50's as claimed, the big kite isn't going to be used except in very light winds (say sub 6-7 knots). These boays will use the same sail configuration upwind and down in most conditions.

But the option is there, unlike last time, and given the time of year the Cup will be sailed (which is generally a light air time of year for Auckland) the use of Kites may be more useful than you think.

 

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11 hours ago, sclarke said:

Boats were shit. (The 72's were cool, but far too expensive adding to the "rich mans sport" reputation the Cup was trying to leave behind) Boats were too small, with too less crew, who weren't even sailing as such, just pumping oil around the boat. Too many one design components making the boats all look the same (Except ETNZ). All angles of sail looked the same (no sail changes) in other events we always saw sail changes upwind/ downwind. Not enough match racing, it was all just banging the corners. Courses were too short due to TV schedules, no race village dock out ceremony as we saw in every other Cup. Not enough competitors (especially in 2013). The commentary was terrible. They had no personality, and no passion for what was happening, and were struggling to understand the technical aspects of the boats, and how they worked, which was exactly what everyone wanted to know. At least PJ Montgomery knew what was happening when he was commentating the Cup. The commentary between him and Chris Law in San Diego and Auckland was fantastic! PJ had the personality, and Chris Law knew his stuff technically in regards to the boats and how they worked, and how they worked the course. 

I have to say we are on the same page here , how crazy is that ? 

 

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On 2/25/2018 at 8:49 AM, sclarke said:

Boats were shit. (The 72's were cool, but far too expensive adding to the "rich mans sport" reputation the Cup was trying to leave behind) Boats were too small, with too less crew, who weren't even sailing as such, just pumping oil around the boat. Too many one design components making the boats all look the same (Except ETNZ). All angles of sail looked the same (no sail changes) in other events we always saw sail changes upwind/ downwind. Not enough match racing, it was all just banging the corners. Courses were too short due to TV schedules, no race village dock out ceremony as we saw in every other Cup. Not enough competitors (especially in 2013). The commentary was terrible. They had no personality, and no passion for what was happening, and were struggling to understand the technical aspects of the boats, and how they worked, which was exactly what everyone wanted to know. At least PJ Montgomery knew what was happening when he was commentating the Cup. The commentary between him and Chris Law in San Diego and Auckland was fantastic! PJ had the personality, and Chris Law knew his stuff technically in regards to the boats and how they worked, and how they worked the course. 

Seems telling that you say too expensive, too small, too one design all in the same paragraph.

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14 minutes ago, nroose said:

Seems telling that you say too expensive, too small, too one design all in the same paragraph.

Those criticisms are not mutually exclusive. Agree or disagree, but that IS his opinion, and it is an opinion that bears no internal inconsistencies. 

I happen to disagree with him on the cost, size, and design restrictions. I think all those were fine. But I absolutely agree with him on a few other points. 

1. Pumping oil around the boat as one of the key differentiators between is boring to watch and not interesting to me as a sailor. 

2. The courses WERE too short, and too narrow. I think that had less to do with the tv schedule and more to do with the size constraints of the setting, but whatever the cause, the result was an inability of the teams to really play shifts or currents. Think about how cool it would have been if the boats had to deal with SF again. Or for that matter if they had the space to set a big course off Valencia, or San Diego. Sure, the "stadium seating" aspect would have suffered but believe me you could not see much from the stadium anyways. 

3. The commentary was fair, at best, and probably better described as sclarke's "terrible." I actually think that had a lot to do with how difficult it was for the commentators to see the race. They were sitting in the grandstand and had the same shit view the spectators had. 

I think that if you kept the basic platform but somehow reduced the reliance on oil, and held the races somewhere that the boats could really stretch their legs, more people would miss those boats more. 

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2 hours ago, 2Newts said:

 

I think that if you kept the basic platform but somehow reduced the reliance on oil, and held the races somewhere that the boats could really stretch their legs, more people would miss those boats more. 

^ This. Add stored EV power to the AC50s (just like they are with the AC75s), and send them out on a more challenging course with a much larger playing field - in terms of pushing all the right buttons (for me at least) it would've been game, set  match.

Bermuda is a stunning place, and the Great Sound offers epic sailing, but the AC50s at 30-46kts just use up too much real estate. I could see having one event there as part of a larger series tho.

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11 hours ago, 2Newts said:

Those criticisms are not mutually exclusive.

Uh...  In general, bigger is more expensive. And less OD is more expensive. And bigger OD is more expensive. And generally it's harder to do OD if you go bigger, because more of the stuff that isn't OD can be very different in engineering. Sure, not "mutually exclusive", like playing professional American Football and professional baseball, as Bo Jackson did for 4 seasons, are not "mutually exclusive", but they are generally at odds with each other.

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Silvio Arrivabene has now joined BMQR as Production Manager. He held a similar position with Alinghi - I met him in Venice for the ACWS presentation and he told the quite entertaining story of A5's famous helo lift across the Alps, including tactful negotiations with an admiral for conflicting pier occupation with a submarine, as the second (longer) spar was finally arriving after a weather delay. Good guy, and wise move by BMQR as TH might otherwise be distracted by the simultaneous build of a TP52, a 72' even before the first Cup boat

 

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Maybe these guys ^ will be involved in something I forgot to post after hearing TE this week at Sailing Illustrated.

TE has heard that BMQR has tentative plans to build one or more non-surrogate foiling yachts, probably after details of the DR are firmed up, based on MC38’s - which fall just short of the 12m limit.

https://www.mcconaghyboats.com/mc38

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