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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Now "tippy"is completely different to having "major design flaws" next time, instead of dramatising the situation and putting words in peoples mouths that they didn't actually say, try and just stick to the facts, so that when you're asked to prove your point, you can actually do that.

We've only ever seen one capsize, just one. And that capsize resulted in no damage and the boat being able to continue with her testing 5 minutes later. Since then, no capsizes, boats being thrown around with relative ease, boats sailing in heavy breeze, light breeze, and everywhere in between, so are they "tippy"? yes. Are they difficult to sail? Yes. Is that part of the design brief? Yes. Did the designers take capsize into consideration as part of the design rule? Yes. Its doing exactly what it was designed to do. No Major design flaws to be seen.

 

End of conversation.  It is not worth the effort to explain it to you.  Just go back and read the comments from the boat designers and the sailors who have sailed it.  For example, Verdier says (you can find many others):

There are concerns these AC75s are going to be dangerous? 
We have to be super careful. We don’t allow the guys to go forwards of the foil. You are not allowed to go forwards of the foil when sailing, that is in the rule. And when sailing there will be a virtual diamond so they don’t get too close to one another but of course it is always scary to see boats going fast, the same as with the AC50. Going at these speeds in big boats like this you need to be careful.

Could you foresee a trickle down, scaled down grand prix monohull boat come on the market? Something like a TP52 size with this foil system?
That was the intention to start with, it was a bit of a dream but you would not be able to sail the Sydney Hobart for example on a boat like this. Yes, maybe on an inshore grand prix circuit but I don’t see the public being able to have access to something like this, you would always be obliged to have fixed ballast that gives you stability. It is a kind of strange boat, not very natural.

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17 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Is today a sail day for AM? 

Yup mast in and all go.

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17 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

you would not be able to sail the Sydney Hobart for example on a boat like this.

this part is just generalized to completely wrong

for sure you could not do it every time

not even most times

but enter every year and eventually ( now that 2-3 day weather forecasts are getting very accurate )

you will be able to navigate a course through the wind and sea states you can handle

that will be the race that the records all fall by a long way

same same for all offshore racing

akl to russell in ~ 2 1/2 hours

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

End of conversation.  It is not worth the effort to explain it to you.  Just go back and read the comments from the boat designers and the sailors who have sailed it.  For example, Verdier says (you can find many others):

There are concerns these AC75s are going to be dangerous? 
We have to be super careful. We don’t allow the guys to go forwards of the foil. You are not allowed to go forwards of the foil when sailing, that is in the rule. And when sailing there will be a virtual diamond so they don’t get too close to one another but of course it is always scary to see boats going fast, the same as with the AC50. Going at these speeds in big boats like this you need to be careful.

Could you foresee a trickle down, scaled down grand prix monohull boat come on the market? Something like a TP52 size with this foil system?
That was the intention to start with, it was a bit of a dream but you would not be able to sail the Sydney Hobart for example on a boat like this. Yes, maybe on an inshore grand prix circuit but I don’t see the public being able to have access to something like this, you would always be obliged to have fixed ballast that gives you stability. It is a kind of strange boat, not very natural.

In other words... you’re talking shit. At no time has anyone on any team said The AC75 has major design flaws. Just admit that you made up that line for dramatic effect.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Yup mast in and all go.

Any action? Sailing days could be precious. 

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Yup just consuming a sausage roll watching Amway reaching up and down the inner harbour 15 knot NE overcast with the usual following gaggle of gas guzzling tenders and spies.

Cant they just use drones and give the environment a break.

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7 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I guess you are speaking of the foil cant here ?

If yes it is an advantage has they can fly with more RM before touching the water in windy conditions, same in light conditions, they can have their foils more inward and diminish the RM to fly  earlier.

What we don't know is the comparison between this advantage vs the one of being able to use a small keel/bustle as a "central foil" when necessary, providing better stability but a small drag when kissing the water.

The teams must have the answer now but w'll have to wait B2 to know it. That said, the kwi test boat seems to do much better than the fat dog now in the shed. :)

And there you go.........

Changing your previous positions on both purpose and merit of stepped hulls and the merit of being able to fly the foil arm at different angles of immersion to suit.

You are the most irritating Troll here. When others (not just myself) suggested all this a long time ago, you were calling bullshit from your position of no understanding. Now that your comprehension has evolved to where others were at nearly a year ago, you sit there proudly typing all sorts of shit as if you had discovered these phenomena. Unbelievable.

You undo your renaissance by comparing the keel bastle to a "Central Foil" (Seriously ?!?!) ..... and then seal any perceived increase in intelligence to the toilet bowl, by suggesting that Te Aihe is a Fat Dog, by comparison to Te Kahu. Seriously, no commentator or scribe has any basis for data based comparison, so yours, amounts to barbs and trolling in true #Clown Pa style.

You can't take such firm positions without basis, and not get called out when you reverse those positions or when it bites you in the Arse. But that happened with the cycles in SF and more so in Bermuda - so it's unexpected and utterly unsurprising here........

But keep flaming on about Top speeds and straight line stability - because that is solely where these competitions are decided.

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Looks like they have stopped for a cuppa and a sausage roll too.

Was just doing the same thing at Mission Bay. 
well almost but Chicken and Leek Pie. 

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Not the greatest shots as they never that close and it was a pretty grey morning but good to see AM out there again. They did a few laps of the East course between Browns and Rangi and most of it looked pretty well handled. Wind was 10-15 knots.

 

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20 hours ago, NZL3481 said:

Stability with both training wheels down through that gybe was good though. Should be pretty good for towing up to Kawau as the party barge for a long weekend...

There's a reason why both were down, and its not because they need the stability. 

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1 hour ago, Boink said:

...suggesting that Te Aihe is a Fat Dog, by comparison to Te Kahu.

Aaahhhmmmmm....

He's right. Te Ahmed is a dog. A 3-legged dog that falls over a lot.

That's why it's in the shed...waiting for a sucker like S+S to come save it from being put down.

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4 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Aaahhhmmmmm....

He's right. Te Ahmed is a dog. A 3-legged dog that falls over a lot.

That's why it's in the shed...waiting for a sucker like S+S to come save it from being put down.

:D :D :D 
 

Great sense of humor

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

Great sense of humor

But a limited range of subject matter

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19 minutes ago, weta27 said:

But a limited range of subject matter

Just here. It's a very target-rich environment.

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Well I can confirm after watching her this morning that this American bird is slow and heavy-assed through the corners.

And she takes some time getting that fat ass back up out of the water ... 

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5 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Well I can confirm after watching her this morning that this American bird is slow and heavy-assed through the corners.

And she takes some time getting that fat ass back up out of the water ...

See? You've got bit of bite yourself!

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50 minutes ago, weta27 said:
53 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Great sense of humor

But a limited range of subject matter

you keep forgetting the purple font

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10 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Well I can confirm after watching her this morning that this American bird is slow and heavy-assed through the corners.

And she takes some time getting that fat ass back up out of the water ... 

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Come on weta, the observations are always welcomed, but the derogatory comments are unnecessary.

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1 minute ago, The_Alchemist said:

Come on weta, the observations are always welcomed, but the derogatory comments are unnecessary.

Dude, lighten up. He was just throwing a bit of shade back my way. I deserved it.

Quit being a tender KiWhingerTM.

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

Aaahhhmmmmm....

He's right. Te Ahmed is a dog. A 3-legged dog that falls over a lot.

That's why it's in the shed...waiting for a sucker like S+S to come save it from being put down.

A pregnant dog delivering her bustle in the shed ?

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All tongue in cheek Alchy, but there's nowhere to hide in the HairWacky ...

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7 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Come on weta, the observations are always welcomed, but the derogatory comments are unnecessary.

Weta's comments are always constructive not derogative, and AM already know.

It is good for us totally unbiased fanboys

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Well - there is the under it option Weta...

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Heh.

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7 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

Come on weta, the observations are always welcomed, but the derogatory comments are unnecessary. 

he has always commented on what he has seen

if they were accurate ,, and from the pics it seems it is

then its not derogatory as an intentional slur .. just descriptive

if there is any shortness perceived then you may have to look at your trolls as to why that might happen and their relentless if not accurate rants

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17 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

A pregnant dog delivering her bustle in the shed ?

Now that's funny.

Hey Foroursheikh - look! A cute litter of bustles!

Minature-Dachshund-5.jpg

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That bustle certainly appears to be working well.

Heaps of end plating ground effect grip going on there...

2715CE94-9D4A-438F-979F-1606DD4356A4.jpeg.46d8d4f559f7b20489e680c87d972972.jpeg

 

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16 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Now that's funny.

Hey Foroursheikh - look! A cute litter of bustles!

Minature-Dachshund-5.jpg

OK that had me laughing out loud

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Seriously, once she is up and running, Defiant looks very  impressive, but I have to say, to my eyes, she sometimes looks slow through transitions and seems slow getting back up on the foils.

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1 minute ago, phill_nz said:

he has always commented on what he has seen

if they were accurate ,, and from the pics it seems it is

then its not derogatory as an intentional slur .. just descriptive

if there is any shortness perceived then you may have to look at your trolls as to why that might happen and their relentless if not accurate rants

By all means, weta can say what ever he wants, just noting that comments like “fat ass” just reduce his credibility.  He has been a great contributor and is appreciated for all of his work.  Just would hate to see it deteriorate into the typical shit-show that the fan-boys throw around.  I was the first to ask him how AM looked getting up on the foils and how they compared to NZ.  We all want to see the action through his content and it is nice to hear honest observations. It is very early in the competition and all of the teams are still learning.

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9 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

By all means, weta can say what ever he wants, just noting that comments like “fat ass” just reduce his credibility.  He has been a great contributor and is appreciated for all of his work.  Just would hate to see it deteriorate into the typical shit-show that the fan-boys throw around.  I was the first to ask him how AM looked getting up on the foils and how they compared to NZ.  We all want to see the action through his content and it is nice to hear honest observations. It is very early in the competition and all of the teams are still learning.

Stop being so fucking precious.

Amway does in fact have a fat arse.

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Must be an American thing.

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5 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

By all means, weta can say what ever he wants, just noting that comments like “fat ass” just reduce his credibility.  He has been a great contributor and is appreciated for all of his work.  Just would hate to see it deteriorate into the typical shit-show that the fan-boys throw around.  I was the first to ask him how AM looked getting up on the foils and how they compared to NZ.  We all want to see the action through his content and it is nice to hear honest observations. It is very early in the competition and all of the teams are still learning.

FFS. Ken Read said Comanche had a fat ass too. Its not derogatory, its a term of endearment! Jesus some people are offended by everything!

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10 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

just noting that comments like “fat ass” just reduce his credibility.

ok

then be so kind as to provide the list of ( to you ) acceptable terms for broad rear end

im sure some will jump at the chance to comply

 

perhaps the Americanisms like .. junky trunk .. etc might be more bearable for you

just a suggestion mind .. i would have to go through the dictionary of jive talk to find others for submission

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Anyone who takes a crack at Rosco is fair game; Defiant was just collateral damage.

It's the question of the day:

"Do these foils make my ass look big?"

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Weta thanks for the pics.

Watching Amway today she sure throws a heck of a lot of water off those foils.

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standard answer to that

and i know it right cause i have never been asked again after giving it

" nope all the cream buns and donuts make your ass look fat .. the foils are fine "

 

i think its owed to george carlin .. not at all sure though

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the only one of the two i would ride

 

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2 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Which one is the horse?

 

No wonder Kanye has mental health issues.

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28 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Stop being so fucking precious.

Amway does in fact have a fat arse.

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Must be an American thing.

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I certainly see a strong resemblance. 

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Seriously, once she is up and running, Defiant looks very  impressive, but I have to say, to my eyes, she sometimes looks slow through transitions and seems slow getting back up on the foils.

Thanks for the great photos Weta.

I think I speak for the hive when I say we really appreciate your contribution. I doubt many others here have seen an AC75 in action as close as you have, so as far as I'm concerned your opinion holds more weight than most. Keep up the good work.

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Thanks, I'm no sailing expert, so it's nice to be able to contribute something to the discussion.

And I feel privileged to live so close to the action, so only too happy to share the view whenever I can.

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12 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Thanks, I'm no sailing expert, so it's nice to be able to contribute something to the discussion.

And I feel privileged to live so close to the action, so only too happy to share the view whenever I can.

Crikey Weta thanks to your sterling efforts here Smack has got something to wack off on Four has seen things we all have never seen and Alky has a burgeoning career ahead of him as a human radar detector no batteries required.

Take a well earned bow or fat stern you choice bro.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

I certainly see a strong resemblance. 

You mean at Christmas  time the other ones gonna get fucked on tape in a bid for fame and stardom too? 

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A comment from the Emirates Team NZ Fanpage on FB:

"Was watching Defiant practise today off Rangitoto and North Head. During execution of a gybe, the boat cartwheeled and was healed about 30 degrees. The bow was pointing to the sky. Needless to say, they stopped proceedings to let the crew change their underwear....It was very close to a capsize, am sure that Dean Barker had his heart in his mouth!! De JaVu San Fran"
 
 
 
 
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19 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

During execution of a gybe, the boat cartwheeled and was healed about 30 degrees. The bow was pointing to the sky.

ohhh nooo

say it isn't so

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

RG seems to corroborate Wetas observations

I was standing alongside him on the rocks for a while.

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9 minutes ago, weta27 said:

I was standing alongside him on the rocks for a while.

Should have done the sailing journalism community and the rest of us a real favour and given him a subtle but firm push :P

Stood next to Wussell the Rat on a pontoon one afternoon and the left hemisphere of my brain screamed out push whilst the right hemisphere remembered my wife’s sage words never ring her seeking assistance with matters concerning bail.

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I think he writes some good stuff.

He's a decent bloke managing to make a living out of something he loves.

Gotta respect that.

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25 minutes ago, weta27 said:

I think he writes some good stuff.

He's a decent bloke managing to make a living out of something he loves.

Gotta respect that.

Absolutely. He's probably the only real sailing journalist/ enthusiast giving us decent information right now. The trolls will dismiss what he says as "ETNZ fanboy rubbish"But Gladwell often writes good stuff.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

You mean at Christmas  time the other ones gonna get fucked on tape in a bid for fame and stardom too? 

See now that is genuinely funny! Hopefully stingers will eventually get it :-)

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4 hours ago, Priscilla said:

That bustle certainly appears to be working well.

Heaps of end plating ground effect grip going on there...

2715CE94-9D4A-438F-979F-1606DD4356A4.jpeg.46d8d4f559f7b20489e680c87d972972.jpeg

 

 

0FA81B7D-27DD-4BDF-9D14-7E360F425CA1.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Should have done the sailing journalism community and the rest of us a real favour and given him a subtle but firm push :P

Stood next to Wussell the Rat on a pontoon one afternoon and the left hemisphere of my brain screamed out push whilst the right hemisphere remembered my wife’s sage words never ring her seeking assistance with matters concerning bail.

I liked the push wuss.

RG hasn't sold any one out for $$$$$ yet

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6 hours ago, weta27 said:
  5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Great sense of humor

 

6 hours ago, weta27 said:

But a limited range of subject matter

Yup.that's our spinbot

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1 hour ago, Flippin Out said:

I worked it out the other day, they're the same person. No real surprise.

I think all the boats will have different foils and different configs for certain wind strengths, perhaps AM is moded for more pressure ATM? They will be well aware of where they're at and how the boat is performing strengths and weaknesses. Early days stay tuned for some changes to their boat.

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6 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I think all the boats will have different foils and different configs for certain wind strengths, perhaps AM is moded for more pressure ATM? They will be well aware of where they're at and how the boat is performing strengths and weaknesses. Early days stay tuned for some changes to their boat.

B1 for everyone is probing the design corners, looking for juicy bits. We had to wait ages to see good coverage of two, or one and a half, of this design sailing together on a regular basis. Three more long months and all the b2's should be hooning the harbour. Then we'll see some conclusions with personality. Right now it's just entertainment. Good entertainment.

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58 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

See now that is genuinely funny! Hopefully stingers will eventually get it :-)

Glad it raised a laugh. Fully expecting a downvote from the usual suspects.

thing is, three teams are all gonna get fucked that’s just the reality of it, Not picking on team merica.

 

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Quote

DSC_1134.jpg

This one really shows how far aft the crew is on AM.

Must contribute to the ass-dragging in transition.

There was a quote in one of the technical interviews (I forget which) where it was pointed out that fore-aft crew positioning has significant impact on righting moment, this is quite interesting relative to that.

 

Thoughts on the jib head/forestay fillet thing?

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There seems to be a menagerie of foiling kiters always about on the harbour. Weekdays. In winter. Lucky for some. I wasn't allowed one by wifey as no life insurance if I hit a tree. Or an expensive boat. 

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55 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

In other news

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The actual physics of what he describes make no sense. 

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4 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

The actual physics of what he describes make no sense. 

There doesn't seem to be any pics or video of this moment either.

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maybe they just used cartwheeled in a non traditional sense

the extreme lean and leaping up bow first we have seen on i think all the boats

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33 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

The actual physics of what he describes make no sense.  

Indeed.

Combined with the absence of pics makes one rather doubtful of the claim.

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12 hours ago, Boink said:

And there you go.........

Changing your previous positions on both purpose and merit of stepped hulls and the merit of being able to fly the foil arm at different angles of immersion to suit.

You can't take such firm positions without basis, and not get called out when you reverse those positions or when it bites you in the Arse. But that happened with the cycles in SF and more so in Bermuda - so it's unexpected and utterly unsurprising here........

^^ Amusing, I have from the beginning been mentioning the advantages and disadvantages of a bustle/keel and still does not know which one will prevail on B2 and you now support my points !

At the time you were harping on the bow down/windward attitude but after making the clown you remain pretty  silent about  it.

Instead of pissing your vinegar you should be happy, we live a fantastic period in boat design and the guessing game is fun. But your next rant will come soon, .....bow down. :)

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4 hours ago, hoom said:

This one really shows how far aft the crew is on AM.

Must contribute to the ass-dragging in transition.

There was a quote in one of the technical interviews (I forget which) where it was pointed out that fore-aft crew positioning has significant impact on righting moment, this is quite interesting relative to that.

 

Thoughts on the jib head/forestay fillet thing?

This makes total sense.  I bet B2 will move the crew more forward.   

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22 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Got a severe case of convenient memory syndrome there Four
The AC75 was touted as self righting.

If you watch the video of the Q+A follow up, Ray Davies and Dan Bernasconi discuss the self righting aspect. It depends on the conditions and where the boat is positioned relative to the wind. The boat may have to be turned into the wind to assist in self righting. But it will self right.

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What ever your opinion of AM, it is clear that Defiant has more than a few issues. Light breeze, speed through maneuvers and acceleration seem to be a few areas.

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8 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

What ever your opinion of AM, it is clear that Defiant has more than a few issues. Light breeze, speed through maneuvers and acceleration seem to be a few areas.

That narrows it down to being everything except going in a straight line when the breeze is up. It better be bloody fast I guess.

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1 minute ago, Ex-yachtie said:

That narrows it down to being everything except going in a straight line when the breeze is up. It better be bloody fast I guess.

The video so far supports that. They have no problems being fast in a straight line, but all the boats will be fast in a straight line.

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15 hours ago, weta27 said:

Seriously, once she is up and running, Defiant looks very  impressive, but I have to say, to my eyes, she sometimes looks slow through transitions and seems slow getting back up on the foils.

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How much of it has to do with they haven't sailed the boat in 5 months?

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10 minutes ago, trimfast said:

How much of it has to do with they haven't sailed the boat in 5 months?

I’m sure a good amount.  Then there is config of the boat. How is what they tested in FLA work in NZ. Then crew composition, types of sails.  Haven’t been following a lot of the foul discussion but the ones on the boat now look a little big for the reporter wind conditions in my uneducated opinion.  

Ultimately, if they look like what is reported now towards the end of the year with B2 then Casper is destined for a similar showing to the last AC cycle he was involved with, Artemis in AC34.  Minus the tragic loss of life hopefully. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

If you watch the video of the Q+A follow up, Ray Davies and Dan Bernasconi discuss the self righting aspect. It depends on the conditions and where the boat is positioned relative to the wind. The boat may have to be turned into the wind to assist in self righting. But it will self right.

Said it before Jimmy will be back in Herne Bay banging Mandy well before Deano can raise himself from a lie down on the Waitemata.

 

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40 minutes ago, WetHog said:

I’m sure a good amount.  Then there is config of the boat. How is what they tested in FLA work in NZ. Then crew composition, types of sails.  Haven’t been following a lot of the foul discussion but the ones on the boat now look a little big for the reporter wind conditions in my uneducated opinion.  

Plus, the foils they are sporting may not be optimal for in the light. 
 

Wish we had a better idea of what foil sections the different teams are running with. 

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1 hour ago, trimfast said:

How much of it has to do with they haven't sailed the boat in 5 months?

What do you think?

The fact that the KiWhingersTM around here are breathlessly making comparative critiques against AM shows the fear they have that AM is way further along than they thought. Everything you're seeing with the Emiratis right now - which I will grant show some very good maneuvers - is after a hell of a lot of time on the water. And they are STILL having serious control issues in between those maneuvers. And as you can see, they are no longer even trying it with Te Ahmed - just sticking with their midget.

Look at AM right now - in their big boat - and imagine the improvement you'll see in a few months of solid water time.

No one knows what the B2s are going to bring to the table - but I think if DEFIANT and Te Ahmed squared off on a proper course today - DEFIANT  would win as Te Ahmed dove to the bottom at every other turn.

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29 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Said it before Jimmy will be back in Herne Bay banging Mandy well before Deano can raise himself from a lie down on the Waitemata.

 

Mandy is not that stupid. 

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33 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Is it another Sail Day? 

No; shed is shut up against the rising NE. 

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28 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Is it another Sail Day? 

It was quite breezy overnight but has dropped a bit this morning.

The crane is up ...

 

1 hour ago, trimfast said:

How much of it has to do with they haven't sailed the boat in 5 months?

Video of their turns from Pensacola looked smooth and very horizontal so I'm picking they were trying something new out yesterday. As RG mentioned, they were spending a bit of time between runs mucking around with the foils or foil arms, guys climbing out onto the arms.

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2 hours ago, trimfast said:

How much of it has to do with they haven't sailed the boat in 5 months?

I don’t know if “not sailing” is an excuse, is it?

This is a friendly competition between nations. I know which nation appears to be winning at the moment. 

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