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7 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

145 people on team. $eem$ like a lot. How many did OTAUS have?

Probably about as many since, like ETNZ this time too, their boatbuilders were also employees. I think GD said they peak at around 120 this time.

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10 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Probably about as many since, like ETNZ this time too, their boatbuilders were also employees. I think GD said they peak at around 120 this time.

but are AM boatbuilders employees? Seems like a lot if not.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

but are AM boatbuilders employees? Seems like a lot if not.

That is what he said, it includes all of the boat builders, designers/engineers in Spain, etc.  They will not be bringing all of them to NZ.

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So far, AM had put a lot of hours on the water in NZ since they have been free to sail.  How many hours has NZ B1 been on the water since it's world cruise?

Combine that with the 90+ days in the Mule and 40+ days in Defiant and you have a team that will be putting a lot of hours on the water.

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4 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

You sure have gotten whingey lately. What's up with that?

You sure have gotten cunty lately what’s  up  with that? 
 

btw alchy, stop being a pussy with the down vote button, don’t like my comments then fucking block me . rather than the snide running around with the clicky finger on stuff that’s nothing to do with you

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

And now an interesting photo, have a look at how they depower with the top of the sail.

 

Capture2.PNG

Twist? Inversion? Revolutionary... it’s been a thing for a long while, the mule showed it very early on 

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24 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

You sure have gotten cunty lately what’s  up  with that? 

I usually just give back to others what they give - in the same proportion. I don't remember squalling with you directly - which is why I asked - so I can't really say. But if you want to be cheery - let's go.

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23 minutes ago, Hawke said:

ETNZ were good at it in Bermuda as well.  Better than Oracle at least.  Ashby is an a supremo at main manipulation and I'm picking he will be all over it this time.  I would guess that ETNZ haven't shown their hand with this aspect of boat control yet.

I was referencing soft sails, it was done in San Fran too,  oracle we’re better at it than TNZ it could be said do it doesn't follow automatic continued supremacy of the tech.

 

team MAGA have some very good guys with extensive soft sail twist experience so they may have something in the rig and sail set up others have missed/not developed.  They also post and read this board, in between pissing himself laughing 

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

So far, AM had put a lot of hours on the water in NZ since they have been free to sail.  How many hours has NZ B1 been on the water since it's world cruise?

Combine that with the 90+ days in the Mule and 40+ days in Defiant and you have a team that will be putting a lot of hours on the water.

That didn't help any of the teams in Bermuda. Hours on the water are irrelevant if someone builds a faster boat than yours

 

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

You sure have gotten cunty lately what’s  up  with that? 
btw alchy, stop being a pussy with the down vote button, don’t like my comments then fucking block me . rather than the snide running around with the clicky finger on stuff that’s nothing to do with you

Who is the cunt here ? Did Smack, The Alch or me attack you before ?

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3 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

So far, AM had put a lot of hours on the water in NZ since they have been free to sail.  How many hours has NZ B1 been on the water since it's world cruise?

Combine that with the 90+ days in the Mule and 40+ days in Defiant and you have a team that will be putting a lot of hours on the water.

When you say “a lot of hours”, do you mean the three days when they spent most of their time stopped, calibrating shit?

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Looks like a Code Zero day in Auckland

Very mild spring-like day. Bloody traffic is still appalling though. ;-(

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4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

but are AM boatbuilders employees? Seems like a lot if not.

Team size is not a great measure of anything since teams will, to varying degrees, outsource a lot of things. 
 

The only real interest in this cycle might be if they are ‘officially’ AC Team employed, for visa and so NZ-entry requirement purposes. 

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Team size is not a great measure of anything since teams will, to varying degrees, outsource a lot of things. 
 

The only real interest in this cycle might be if they are ‘officially’ AC Team employed, for visa and so NZ-entry requirement purposes. 

 

4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

but are AM boatbuilders employees? Seems like a lot if not.

Many are... As I understand it most were not in Fla and were building stuff in Newport during covid locked down and now in NZL with the team.

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Well that was weird!

I watched Defiant drift down the harbour for an hour or so, in bright sunshine and almost no breeze.

Half of that time she had a man up the mast working on getting the apparently jammed main up that last foot or so.

Interesting detail of the access pocket right at the top.

They did have the Code Zero set up but I never got to see it in action.

Just when the guy finally fixed the problem and come down, this freakish fog bank rolled in and they disappeared!

A beautiful sunny day and there was the crazy sight of fog creeping up off the water and over Mission Bay and Bastion Point!

So apologies, there was no point in any further photography and I just hope they find their way back to Base ....

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Multi-level fog brought to you by...

Amway_logo_2.png

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5 hours ago, Hawke said:

Yeah and as ETNZ proved last time un Bermuda you don't even have to spend time heaps of time on the course.

Pretty usual that the boat or anything that spends the least time on the course gets the silverware.

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2 hours ago, weta27 said:

Well that was weird!

I watched Defiant drift down the harbour for an hour or so, in bright sunshine and almost no breeze.

Half of that time she had a man up the mast working on getting the apparently jammed main up that last foot or so.
 

Whoa, hang on a sec! When Team New Zealand did this on their second day out, it was an unmitigated failure!

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8 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Who is the cunt here ? Did Smack, The Alch or me attack you before ?

Attack? Listen to yourself. I mean it’s cute the three of you running around doing the collective downvote on posts by me but honestly grow up. It’s like you are all each other’s sock friends.

as I said if you don’t like my posts and think I am a cunt, which you clearly do then block me.

you haven’t because you get off on the attention and interaction. 

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2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Whoa, hang on a sec! When Team New Zealand did this on their second day out, it was an unmitigated failure!

Didn’t you know... if ETNZ does it, it’s because Te Aihe is a dog, but if someone else does it, the whole class has “major design flaws”

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16 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

I don't need to prove anything to you. Look back through these threads and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

You're a newb. Do the work - so you look less foolish - or shut up.

A Newb? Really? Do tell Oh, Old & Crusty that you are. 

You know how yesterday you were struggling to understand why I said you were delusional.......

So 6+ years and 1300 posts, and way more understanding and appreciation of what is going on...... But you try to slur me with Newb.

Ah, Bless You SnowFlake! The heat of competition will be upon us soon enough, and you will melt and then evaporate........ but not be missed.

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4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Attack? Listen to yourself. I mean it’s cute the three of you running around doing the collective downvote on posts by me but honestly grow up. It’s like you are all each other’s sock friends.

as I said if you don’t like my posts and think I am a cunt, which you clearly do then block me.

you haven’t because you get off on the attention and interaction. 

You're missing the spinbit as well.

Just need to get these four a room of their own to chew the fat, and be collectively ignored rather than rendering any objective discussion pointless .

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4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Attack? Listen to yourself. I mean it’s cute the three of you running around doing the collective downvote on posts by me but honestly grow up. It’s like you are all each other’s sock friends.

as I said if you don’t like my posts and think I am a cunt, which you clearly do then block me.

you haven’t because you get off on the attention and interaction. 

I think Yur a cunt but your smell is becoming less objectionable amongst the din

Edit:P

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19 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Funny to see how you backtrack from your original pompous claims and now tell pretty much what I say. I guess you will also back pedal the same way onyour stupid derogatory statements regarding the AM boat.

It's not backtracking. Do not misrepresent my view points  and take those observations - and those same observations made freely by others here - as being constantly in effect.

That claim was Never made. 

Bow down upwind is regularly observed - but for the reasons of why that is beneficial upwind, does not necessarily apply downwind, nor when it is super light or very breezy.

It is only simple souls like you, who read bow down - then see a photo where bow down is not being performed - and then you jump up and down like an excited child having a borderline hysterical fit - shouting "Your Wrong! Your Wrong! Look Not Bow Down!" 

It's the same scenario you refer to above with the foil arm extensions. When I showed you that having the longest foil arm extensions was beneficial you rejected the notion. You could not accept that it would increase the RM. Then @Lickindip backed up my claims first suggesting c.10% increase

and then a second time with a technical drawing to show that it was in fact 9.34% increase in RM. 

Yet you still mistakenly believe that I was only proposing extending the Windward arm......... Good Fucking Grief.

You are just clueless, and here to troll only.

I will leave you with a quote from Nic Holroyd in an interview on Tip & Shaft:

The bustle on the Kiwi boat?
It is very smart. Theirs is a very clever boat. 

Chew on that morsel, and tell us how your opinion is greater and more relevant than his.

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waiting for TC to make claims about deliberate deception from Holroyd, you know to throw them off the scent..because all the teams really give a fuck what someone says in an interview about something that was designed and built months ago, on a test boat that wont contest the AC.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Forourselves said:

That didn't help any of the teams in Bermuda. Hours on the water are irrelevant if someone builds a faster boat than yours

 

So, would you rather they just visit you in your mom’s basement and get drunk on really cheap beer?

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22 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

And now an interesting photo, have a look at how they depower with the top of the sail.

 

Capture2.PNG

I went back and re- listened to the designer podcast discussions, very good.  One of the designers mentioned that since they will not be able to change foils for various conditions (like in the past) that they will have to learn how to control the sails to make up for it.

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8 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Attack? Listen to yourself. I mean it’s cute the three of you running around doing the collective downvote on posts by me but honestly grow up. It’s like you are all each other’s sock friends.

as I said if you don’t like my posts and think I am a cunt, which you clearly do then block me.

you haven’t because you get off on the attention and interaction. 

Don’t go trying to drag me into your love fest.  We have had some disagreements on some topics, but all of this mindless name calling and BS is all too childish.

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

...but all of this mindless name calling and BS is all too childish.

Hey! Who you calling "childish". Stop with the name calling and BS.

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Are the mast (mast tube or whole unit) and halyard locks supplied/spec? Southern made?  Looks like Future Fibre has the standing rigging contract.

Been a while since I read the whole rule. Seem to remember the mast tube is supplied but don't remember if the bits are like locks and such. 

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3 minutes ago, XPRO said:

Are the mast (mast tube or whole unit) and halyard locks supplied/spec? Southern made?  Looks like Future Fibre has the standing rigging contract.

Been a while since I read the whole rule. Seem to remember the mast tube is supplied but don't remember if the bits are like locks and such. 

southern is making all but one team's mast ... they are a one-design outer shell "D" shape,  the teams must specify/design the structure, internals and mechanics of twist

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33 minutes ago, Lickindip said:

southern is making all but one team's mast ... they are a one-design outer shell "D" shape,  the teams must specify/design the structure, internals and mechanics of twist

So the tube is one design on the outside measurements, but the tube layup and parameters are not. Interesting, so you can spec a tube that is more open to tipping off or twisting in the top section then say the bottom and have that built to your teams spec. by Southern NZL.

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39 minutes ago, XPRO said:

So the tube is one design on the outside measurements, but the tube layup and parameters are not. Interesting, so you can spec a tube that is more open to tipping off or twisting in the top section then say the bottom and have that built to your teams spec. by Southern NZL.

effectively ... yes

there are some minimum layup requirements but in general the team can spec the build so they get a desired twist/ flexibility they want

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7 minutes ago, Lickindip said:

effectively ... yes

there are some minimum layup requirements but in general the team can spec the build so they get a desired twist/ flexibility they want

Perfect - thanks... 

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15 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Is today a Sail Day? 

yep, Seppos heading out shortly. Prob one of the softest days of the year to go out yesterday. Mwahahahah....

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Just changing foresail off North Head. We’re foiling pretty quickly out of the inner harbour just before. 

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4 minutes ago, desprit said:

Got a guy up the mast. 

I bet the top 4m of those sail controls are complicated setups! 

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Going back to base by the looks of it. Has a tender alongside rather than being towed on the foils like yesterday. 

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4 hours ago, XPRO said:

So the tube is one design on the outside measurements, but the tube layup and parameters are not. Interesting, so you can spec a tube that is more open to tipping off or twisting in the top section then say the bottom and have that built to your teams spec. by Southern NZL.

Tube dimensions and rig restrictions as per the 2 diagrams and published class rule.

This gives the gist of it. In the Rig picture - note the spelling mistake - they wrote 400mm but meant 4000mm.

Unfortunately for "us", all the control systems remain hidden and unseen - and after the foils will probably be the most interesting technical developments to fall out of this cycle of the cup.

slwfa18_stl_technology-ferguson-1.jpg

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Well that was a quick morning. Defiant came foiling out of the inner harbour looking pretty good until it went through its first maneuver 

 

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Then it dropped the foils and did a very up & down turn towards Rangitoto

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And briefly got back out of the water before slowing down, hitting the water and coming to a stop with everyone looking at the sails. They soon pulled the sails and went home.

 

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14 minutes ago, Boink said:

Tube dimensions and rig restrictions as per the 2 diagrams and published class rule.

This gives the gist of it. In the Rig picture - note the spelling mistake - they wrote 400mm but meant 4000mm.

Unfortunately for "us", all the control systems remain hidden and unseen - and after the foils will probably be the most interesting technical developments to fall out of this cycle of the cup.

slwfa18_stl_technology-ferguson-1.jpg

slwfa18_stl_technology-ferguson-3.jpg

Super helpful. Thanks, this is what I needed. So it appears there is not a fixed primary location for the backstays. Maybe they need to be located on the shaded area. Will keep searching for that.

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30 minutes ago, 1995 said:

Then it dropped the foils and did a very up & down turn towards Rangitoto

DSC_1051.jpg

Is that a clue at the top of the main? Doesn't look right.

And that's back to the same main that they were using about 10 days ago when we were noticing problems turning and getting out of the water.

I wonder if it's a new control system that they are having problems with?

By the way, thanks for the great photos 1995!

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28 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Is that a clue at the top of the main? Doesn't look right.

And that's back to the same main that they were using about 10 days ago when we were noticing problems turning and getting out of the water.

I wonder if it's a new control system that they are having problems with?

By the way, thanks for the great photos 1995!

Here's a full shot, and thanks!

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1 hour ago, weta27 said:

Is that a clue at the top of the main? Doesn't look right.
 

Nah, the clew’s generally on the bottom. :D

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5 hours ago, 1995 said:

DSC_1067.jpg

That's a strange sail shape, all the twist happening mid height. It also makes one wonder if the mast is still straight but it's just an illusion.

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6 hours ago, Hawke said:

Don't tell Smack a Daddy that Deviant is broken.  Mind you he'll blame the class not the team.

He blamed the team when it was ETNZ. 

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43 minutes ago, Lakrass said:

That's a strange sail shape, all the twist happening mid height. It also makes one wonder if the mast is still straight but it's just an illusion.

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They’re not sailing at full speed there though, are they. 
 

Bonus points for yellow lines. 

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Bonus points for yellow lines.

It's been a while since the yellow lines made an appearance. Looking forward to the 'yellow fest' when B2s start to emerge... 

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25 minutes ago, NZK said:

It's been a while since the yellow lines made an appearance. Looking forward to the 'yellow fest' when B2s start to emerge... 

Kiwi etch-a-Sketch all poised and ready for Ineos B2 Banter. ;-)

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2 hours ago, NZK said:

It's been a while since the yellow lines made an appearance. Looking forward to the 'yellow fest' when B2s start to emerge... 

Don't forget this necessary bit of kit..

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11 hours ago, Hawke said:

Don't tell Smack a Daddy that Deviant is broken.  Mind you he'll blame the class not the team.

And dont show TC those pics of AM  going Bow Down whilst upwind.......

All the Toys will come out of the Pram.

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https://www.sail-world.com/news/230618/Americas-Cup-Rialto-Defiants-glamour-day?

Interesting commentary:

Defiant looked quite smooth coming out of the harbour doing a couple of good tacks before heading for the end of Browns Island, and disappearing from sight.

Her return in the NE breeze looked clean as well, staying foil-borne by eye and confirmed with zoomed images later.

 

The scow hull doesn't throw out the spectacular splashdowns that Emirates Team New Zealand's Te Aihe did in the early days, however we have yet to see Defiant in a solid sea breeze, or a 20kt plus SW breeze which puts up an awkward chop.

 

The New York Yacht Club team have been out sailing on every suitable day this week, and most days since they started sailing in Auckland almost two weeks ago.

Emirates Team New Zealand hasn't been out at all this week.

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31 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

I do have to admit that NZ B1 looks better under tow, maybe it is because of all the practice...lol

1923538650_ScreenShot2020-08-06at11_47_27AM.thumb.jpg.6575500b00dc9cd1c56a4c9a5943b6be.jpg

Holy shit.  I hope Dean's holding on tight there!

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

The scow hull doesn't throw out the spectacular splashdowns that Emirates Team New Zealand's Te Aihe did in the early days, however we have yet to see Defiant in a solid sea breeze, or a 20kt plus SW breeze which puts up an awkward chop.

I don't think the hull/bow shape itself has a whole lot to do with how "spectacular" the splashdown is. Te Ahmed's bow is 8 freakin' meters underwater when the Emiratis violently lose control as we've seen. That's spectacular.

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15 minutes ago, Hemi said:

New rudder? Very sharp anhedral

Did you notice the new white bustle running across the bottom? Four can tell you all about it.

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2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Holy shit.  I hope Dean's holding on tight there!

It is that bow down angle for more speed....  maybe they have more lift from the rudder without the crew back to balance it.

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

I don't think the hull/bow shape itself has a whole lot to do with how "spectacular" the splashdown is. Te Ahmed's bow is 8 freakin' meters underwater when the Emiratis violently lose control as we've seen. That's spectacular.

'8 meters?' Remind me not to anchor anywhere remotely near you in a bay, buddy. ;-)

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20 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

'8 meters?' Remind me not to anchor anywhere remotely near you in a bay, buddy. ;-)

Hey you got 2m left! Go fer it!

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27 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

'8 meters?' Remind me not to anchor anywhere remotely near you in a bay, buddy. ;-)

Just a guess...but that sprit is pretty deep in the mud with a lot of foredeck submerged right behind it....

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I don't have my Measuring Seagull handy. How deep would you put it?

 

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Boat in the water. Could be a few interesting squalls today with the NW rising and  possible t'storms. 

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13 hours ago, Indio said:

Don't forget this necessary bit of kit..

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Now that takes me back.

All we need now is a tent, a few concrete anchor blocks and some smart anarchist will produce a near perfect rendering of the defenders final boat. 

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It looked like they were having some flight control issues when on the port foil as they returned today. 

 

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Jeez has Dean been drinking!? :blink:

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10 minutes ago, uflux said:

Jeez has Dean been drinking!? :blink:

naaaa that's what a fast and stable boat looks like :lol:

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33 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

It looked like they were having some flight control issues when on the port foil as they returned today. 

They have the foil at max cant, even foiling that low the tip is throwing spray.

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10 minutes ago, RobG said:

They have the foil at max cant, even foiling that low the tip is throwing spray.

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This makes for really odd viewing...

The foils themselves didn't appear that different. But she was heeling and diving and turning all over the place...

Those two peeps in the 49er looked like they got a bit of a scare!

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Looked as if they were experimenting with cant angle. Maybe trying to reduce the amount of foil in the water yet stay aloft. Comparing speed differences from one tack to the other.

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54 minutes ago, mikenz2 said:

It looked like they were having some flight control issues when on the port foil as they returned today. 

 

Jesus! And people talk about Te Aihe having control issues! 

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1 hour ago, uflux said:

Jeez has Dean been drinking!? :blink:

 

The consequences of drink driving in New Zealand

The consequences of drink-driving can be life-changing. The amount you’ve had to drink makes no difference. Whether just over the limit or well over the limit, in the eyes of the law you are still a convicted drunk-driver and a criminal.

One drink before driving can:

  • impair your reactions putting you and others at risk of being involved in an accident
  • get you a criminal record
  • mean you’ll lose your licence for 6 months
  • land you a heavy fine
  • get your car seized
  • possibly put you in prison.

On a personal level, a drink driving conviction can:

  • lead to unemployment
  • cause you humiliation and guilt
  • negatively impact your relationships with family and friends.

Remember, if driving the day after drinking:

  • alcohol stays in your system longer than you think
  • the same consequences apply if you’re caught over the limit the next day.

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1 hour ago, I14RACER said:

Looked as if they were experimenting with cant angle. Maybe trying to reduce the amount of foil in the water yet stay aloft. Comparing speed differences from one tack to the other.

Honestly looks like they are trying to sail the boat far more bow-down, with less rudder in the water.

Given the new rudder it must be tough as this would be dropping the angle of attack on the mail foils by a couple degrees drastically changing the way the lift is generated, so my guess is one foil is setup pretty alright, the other poorly.

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3 hours ago, mikenz2 said:

It looked like they were having some flight control issues when on the port foil as they returned today. 

 

Jeepers!! Deano drives like he's DUI

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2 hours ago, Tropical Madness said:

Exactly what i thought. They must be testing something revolutionary...

Practising evasive manoeuvres in preparation for Ben Ainslie.

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