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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Second Row

Potential new Beneteau 36.7 Owner

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Starting to get a few at the NYC in Toronto and I am thinking of stepping up to join them...3 questions...

1) What to look for and what to avoid?

2) Why are there so few from 2006 to 2011 (when they went out of production, I think)?

Thanks for any info...

PS: Yes I'm a newbie, but I'm also an ugly old fart and you wouldn't want to see the tits of any woman willing to date me...just sayin'

 

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There's a facebook page for 36.7's, you can look for information there... see if I can link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BeneteauFirst36p7/

As far as I know, the only differences in the years relates to the steering pedestal.  

The boat has a molded grid below the floor; this adds stiffness, but can hide problems; I'd do some careful inspecting there on any candidate boat. 

I've been crewing on one for a few years (we'll have 8 out this weekend in SD) ... my thoughts:

- The cockpit is a bit cramped in front of the traveller, and it gets busy in there around the cans. 

- They respond to weight on the rail, I think the B/D is a little low.  I wouldn't want a shoal draft version.

- It's a 'main driven' boat, in heavy air, the mainsheet trimmer gets a workout with the traveller. 

- Despite having a large wheel, the feel of the steering is not great.  Otoh, it backs like a car.

- Personally I like symmetric spins, and this is about the max size for end-to-end gybes... but I'm an 'old school' kinda guy.  Having a CF pole helps.

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5 hours ago, Second Row said:

 

PS: Yes I'm a newbie, but I'm also an ugly old fart and you wouldn't want to see the tits of any woman willing to date me...just sayin'

 

We'll be the judge of that - putemup

Seriously, we aren't all that fussy

 

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What Kirwan said. The steering goes from "not great" (actually no feel at all) to "drop the traveler now please!" in the blink of an eye. B/D calculations in the design phase must have included the crew sitting on the weather rail. But nothing in that size range packs as much cruising accommodation in package that can, in the right hands, get up and go in race mode. Express 37s or J-35s  might be worth a look as alternatives.  

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Great all around boat. As Kirwan said, the Facebook group is very active and responsive to questions.

Welcome to the Class

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Thanks for the info...Given that the molded grid below the floor is so integral with the safety of the boat (and pretty much impossible to verify) you would think that Beneteau would have developed some kind of acoustic NDT to validate the bond between the hull and the grid.  But then again, maybe they didn't want to scare away potential owners with high variability in this key area.

Up here in Toronto we get a lot of light air so a narrow waterline and a transom clear of the water tend to be more important than righting moment for handicap success, both of which look decent in the 36.7.  In one-design, I'll just be following Zingara's transom around the course, hoping to learn something/anything... 

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I have a 2003 36.7 for sale in Charleston SC. It's the lowest priced one in the country. (Or should be)

Need to sell it to fend off medical bills an college tuition.

  

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Skippered one for a few seasons and got to say I thought they ticked a lot of boxes - one design (although several had different handicaps under different certificates) and with excellent established tuning guide.....and there's a few around to play with/against. All comments above ring true esp traveller work in a breeze. Mostly I liked that it was a very "manageable" boat from a crew work perspective - was reasonably forgiving in the crew development stages and were pretty unbreakable when pushed.....add to that there's room below to share a beer and a story in the after race debrief...and accomodation when visiting another club event and you've got a top package...have fun!

 

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On 10/6/2017 at 1:03 PM, echo said:

I have a 2003 36.7 for sale in Charleston SC. It's the lowest priced one in the country. (Or should be)

Need to sell it to fend off medical bills an college tuition.

  

Is this yours echo? http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2003/Beneteau-First-36.7-2597653/Charleston/SC/United-States#.Wdlcb_mPLmE

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I've owned mine new since 2004.  Great boat that does it all pretty well.  I've raced her around the cans, done 7 Mackinacs on the boat, and cruised her extensively.  The boat is a cost-effective 36-footer, and you'll be happy with the performance and the accommodations belowdeck.  Friends, family, and your wife will love the total package.

The only item that is somewhat bothersome is the water under the grid... it comes in through the mast, and makes its way underneath the grid.  You can suck it out, mostly, but It's been a manageable annoyance, IMHO.

The engine is great - quiet, and pushes her along at a good pace.  The performance uphill is just fine, and the boat isn't as tender as most people believe.  The chutes are a bit undersized downwind, but not a problem when racing OD.

Hulls 155 and beyond (starting in 2005) have a pedestal steering setup.  

If you ever find yourself out on your own, or with others that aren't totally into sailing, the boat is a perfect example of how things should be laid out for singlehanded sailing... you can drive, trim main, trim traveler, and adjust the jib without leaving the helmsman's area.  You can tack, gybe, and do it all on your own.  Really a great setup.

You'll love the boat, the price, and the all-around performance.

DG

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On 2017-10-06 at 3:47 PM, Second Row said:

Thanks for the info...Given that the molded grid below the floor is so integral with the safety of the boat (and pretty much impossible to verify) you would think that Beneteau would have developed some kind of acoustic NDT to validate the bond between the hull and the grid.  But then again, maybe they didn't want to scare away potential owners with high variability in this key area.

Up here in Toronto we get a lot of light air so a narrow waterline and a transom clear of the water tend to be more important than righting moment for handicap success, both of which look decent in the 36.7.  In one-design, I'll just be following Zingara's transom around the course, hoping to learn something/anything... 

Zingara?

Is he still rubbing hulls when pulling away from the raft...?

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Do it!  We have been having a blast with ours the past two years both racing and day sailing, and some of the most fun has been with delivery crew around the Great Lakes.

The boats are not perfect, but they do a heck of a lot extremely well.  With solid glass hulls they have the potential to be actively racing as a one-design class for several decades and we are very focused on keeping the fleets strong.  Please feel free to PM me any time with specific questions and for sure join the Facebook group.

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Feel of helm is an issue to some degree. There is a legal way to change the steering ratio. Described on the 367 website. IIRC it is 1.3:1 std and 1.1:1 mod. More feel with the 1.1:1.

Dog slow downwind and it is crushing on the racetrack. A Code Zero/3 Asym  hybrid is mandatory for sailing angles.

There are/were 2 boats on Long Island Sound that were dominate. One called Whirlwind owned by a fella named Bill Purdy which had the short course W/L down pat. The other was called Shooting Star owned by a fella named Steve Cain and had the long course Distance/Coastal stuff nailed. Both boats were yearly seasonal trophies winners for the better part of a decade. If I were in the market and these boats ticked all my boxes, I would reach out to these two owners and ask them the recipe for success.

 

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Sailed one for 11 years, good boat, struggled under IMS/ORC handicap but a nice boat anyway. She suffered upwind when waves (chop) got a bit big,

 

BTW, the first thing we did was changing the steering ratio, I did it my self and got all the info from this forum, but a don't remember much. I did contact the Edson guys in San Francisco for instructions.

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On 2017-10-05 at 6:08 PM, Second Row said:

Starting to get a few at the NYC in Toronto and I am thinking of stepping up to join them.

Not enough of those at NYC, or any other Toronto club, to permit regular one design racing.

If you're okay with sailing PRHF, the 36.7 is a nice boat, and will also allow you to do some cruising. But if you want to sail one design, Sharks would be a better (and cheaper) choice. 

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There are currently three 36.7's at NYC and at least two at RCYC and across the bay at the MCC.  Unlikely enough to get a one-design fleet for week-night sailing, but getting a start at local Lyra and other regattas should not be beyond the bounds of possibility.

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Would like to tap into the Wisdom of the crowd...Looking at "nearby", freshwater boats there are 2 categories on YachtWorld

Boats with an impressive racing pedigree.  This would include Carerra and Legend.  Carrera seems to have the better sail inventory and is priced $8K more as a result.  These boats would have been taken good care of in order to keep competitive, but have been raced hard on large bodies of water.

Boats with less racing.  This would include Sto Lat in Vermont and Predator (Sailboatlistings.com) in Stockton Lake Missouri.  Sot Lat has been fresh-water sailed since 2007 on a smaller lake.  It will need a sail investment, but they are asking $17K to $25K  less than the boats in the first category.  Predator has been fresh-water sailed on a small lake by one owner since new.  It has a trailer to make delivery easier and has likely had the easiest life.  Predator is priced similarly with Legend, but the owner might be flexible as it has been on sale since January and the owner has moved up to another boat already.

You would pick a boat from which group and why? 

Any first-hand experience or history with these boats would also be appreciated.

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Sto Lat is at our club. As far as I know, the owner has taken good care of her. I think he wants to move to a different size boat. The broker, Jeff Hill, is also a member of our club, and should be able to give you all the answers you need. He is a very trustworthy guy and experienced racer. Give him a call.

Cheers

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I've heard that Legend has been modified to the extent that it is no longer allowed to compete in the OD events...

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13 minutes ago, Streetwise said:

Sto Lat is at our club. As far as I know, the owner has taken good care of her. I think he wants to move to a different size boat. The broker, Jeff Hill, is also a member of our club, and should be able to give you all the answers you need. He is a very trustworthy guy and experienced racer. Give him a call.

Cheers

I can trade him for my J/22...  Just kidding.  Thanks for the Info.

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2 cents from the peanut gallery says you'll do better with the less expensive boat that leaves budget for new sails. Used racing sails are good for practice, but if you want to be competitive, you need fresh rags. 

 

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You'll need fresh rags with any boat for your big regattas. If you buy a boat that's had a strong rotation going, their good regatta sails are now your weekend sails and their weekend sails are now your beer can sails. If you buy a boat with just bed sheets, your crunchy new sails are going to be shit in a year from using them so much.

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5 hours ago, mike98gp said:

I've heard that Legend has been modified to the extent that it is no longer allowed to compete in the OD events...

It’s been a few years since I raced with the class, but AFAIK, Legend always got past the inspectors. They worked very hard to the letter, not the spirit of the rule and a number of the class didn’t care much for their approach but I don’t think they were ever ruled non OD. Tenacious, on the other hand, was found non compliant due to the keel shoe added to meet the Bermuda race stability standard. Lots of discussion as her modified keel was (or was not) within production tolerances that are pretty wide on the first series. It certainly was not “as delivered from the factory”.  Not a lot, but it was modified. 

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