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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
bhyde

Napa Fire

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

All the horse people I know have an evacuation plan, at least on the East Coast (hurricanes) and in Colorado (fires).   My Montana rancher friend just put his first evac plan together (in 50 years of ranching) after some rare fires hit this year.

True. I hope there was time.

Listening to KCBS this morning and hearing reports of up to 400 people missing. Let's hope its communications issues. One of the guys on the Napa fire said connectivity was the number 1 issue on that fire.

If PG&E is indeed to blame, as it's beginning to look, people should go to jail for a long time. Of course this will be handled just like the San Bruno gas pipeline BBQ they held for all those folks.

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45 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Okay....for those curious about structure ignition potential....the two links below will give you more information than anyone not in the profession or not considering building in the Wildland Interface could want. They are more contemporary studies than many available. The science of predicting and preventing structure ignition is ever evolving.

One item to call out of interest to me in the second study was the finding that accumulated embers/brands along the bottom sill of a wall can cause wall ignition. It is not clear in the study if wall covering material makes a difference although intuitively its easy to see a vinyl siding will ignite more readily than a stucco wall. Still I found that interesting.

NIST.SP.1198.pdf

GOVPUB-C13-8d055e87147343112afd8ca6d9b7a

Watching the vidoes of stucco homes with tile roofs burn to the ground made me shit my britches, especially since my primary home is a stucco house with a tile roof. One video shows what looks like a stucco/tile condo complex with a roof fire. There were no surrounding homes or piles of loose vegetation. How does an ember land on a tile roof and set the place on fire?

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12 minutes ago, bhyde said:

Watching the vidoes of stucco homes with tile roofs burn to the ground made me shit my britches, especially since my primary home is a stucco house with a tile roof. One video shows what looks like a stucco/tile condo complex with a roof fire. There were no surrounding homes or piles of loose vegetation. How does an ember land on a tile roof and set the place on fire?

Everything has an ignition temperature. Exterior non combustibles are great until the radiant heat gets to the stick frame construction.

Edited to ad, Exterior trim board, fascia under gutters, windows and doors are all points of compromise in a major fire.

 

WL

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3 hours ago, bhyde said:

Watching the vidoes of stucco homes with tile roofs burn to the ground made me shit my britches, especially since my primary home is a stucco house with a tile roof. One video shows what looks like a stucco/tile condo complex with a roof fire. There were no surrounding homes or piles of loose vegetation. How does an ember land on a tile roof and set the place on fire?

WL has it. The studies are pretty interesting to me as it tracks an evolving understanding of the ignition sequence related to urban fire spread - in other words, how 1) the fire communicates from the vegetation to the structure, then 2) how the fire communicates from structure to structure. There are SO MANY variables in the sequence that its hard to isolate a single variable in experimental observations. Additionally, the studies are largely observational - although with better lab efforts that is improving - and often retrospective which requires a lot of......."supposing"........combined with experiential discussions/interviews with people (firefighters) who are REALLY BUSY doing other things than simply observing. Thats one thing I REALLY enjoyed about promoting within the profession. At some point, my emphasis shifted from "doing"  which is an almost all consuming mental and physical effort to the strategy and tactical considerations that are available to you when you are "watching". I filled my mental slide tray pretty quickly when I was able to shift to strategic side. In the years I was on a interagency Fire Command Team one of the jobs I really liked was operational contingency planning. Out ahead of the fire evaluating and developing plans and resource needs for "what we'll do" if the fire hits pre-established (by me) "trigger points" or when a fire moves into a certain area. Its the perfect intellectual application of experiance, understanding fire behavior and the influence of weather fuels and topography. Most excellent job!!

Anyway..........instead of wandering to answer the question more directly, IF the origin was the roof and not under the eaves, under the gutters etc....the answer to your question likely has to do with the accumulation of embers under the tiles (assuming you mean a composite tile of some sort). One of the studies does a good job of distinguishing between Smoldering Ignition (SI) and Flaming Ignition (FI). The SI is somewhat insidious as it sits under there and no longer requires the heat from the ember to sustain the smoldering process. Eventually it can result in "burning" through the roof sheathing and dropping into the attic where supplied with a fresh bed of combustible materials and oxygen.....it bursts into flame and is off and running.

increasingly we are discovering that the things we experientially thought were most responsible for fire spread - convected and especially radiated heat - are much less of a threat than wind driven firebrands or embers.

 

 

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Sister's house still there!   Police escorts to house and 10 minutes to grab some things.  Evac order stays till Monday.   Neighhborhood thrashed, some houses incinerated, others partial and some lucky ones have gotten this far intact.   I gotta believe that beyond luck her house sitting at a 30 deg angle down below road level and the back yard facing on a golf course fairway w/o many trees near her house played some part in this.  Looking at the direction the fires came from it seems like much of it was blowing over the houses below street level.

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1 hour ago, blunderfull said:

Sister's house still there!   Police escorts to house and 10 minutes to grab some things.  Evac order stays till Monday.   Neighhborhood thrashed, some houses incinerated, others partial and some lucky ones have gotten this far intact.   I gotta believe that beyond luck her house sitting at a 30 deg angle down below road level and the back yard facing on a golf course fairway w/o many trees near her house played some part in this.  Looking at the direction the fires came from it seems like much of it was blowing over the houses below street level.

Yay!. Let's hope her house stays safe! And not being snarky here, but..... Golf courses do have a place in society today, aside from the obvious....

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2 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Sister's house still there!   Police escorts to house and 10 minutes to grab some things.  Evac order stays till Monday.   Neighhborhood thrashed, some houses incinerated, others partial and some lucky ones have gotten this far intact.   I gotta believe that beyond luck her house sitting at a 30 deg angle down below road level and the back yard facing on a golf course fairway w/o many trees near her house played some part in this.  Looking at the direction the fires came from it seems like much of it was blowing over the houses below street level.

Great news. Glad to hear. Your description gave me a weird visual of a residential crown fire. That would be some scary shit! Hope all news continues to be good for you and others there.

 

WL

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Maybe fire resistant construction methods will now take into effect.. Cali has strict building codes for earthquakes they should also include fire.

They are scrambling to finish the grape harvest ... Smokey Wine ?

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On 10/14/2017 at 8:46 PM, captpiratedog said:

They are scrambling to finish the grape harvest ... Smokey Wine ?

 

....hope it doesn't become a 'thing'.  :mellow:

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WASHINGTON, DC — U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Acting Director Tom Homan confirmed on Thursday that a man arrested in connection with setting a fire in Sonoma County Wine Country is an illegal alien from Mexico who has been twice returned to his “home country.”

Homan also confirmed that ICE has issued detainer requests for Jesus Fabian Gonzalez five times now in the past year alone, including the one issued on October 16 in relation to his most recent arrest on suspicion of arson. All of the arrests were made “by Sonoma County on various felony and misdemeanor charges,” according to Homan.

Sonoma County is considered a sanctuary jurisdiction and does not fully cooperate with federal immigration officials. That includes not honoring ICE detainer requests. “ICE was never notified of Mr. Gonzalez’ various releases,” Homan wrote in the statement regarding Gonzalez.

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2 hours ago, the_abandoned_brane said:

WASHINGTON, DC — U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Acting Director Tom Homan confirmed on Thursday that a man arrested in connection with setting a fire in Sonoma County Wine Country is an illegal alien from Mexico who has been twice returned to his “home country.”

Homan also confirmed that ICE has issued detainer requests for Jesus Fabian Gonzalez five times now in the past year alone, including the one issued on October 16 in relation to his most recent arrest on suspicion of arson. All of the arrests were made “by Sonoma County on various felony and misdemeanor charges,” according to Homan.

Sonoma County is considered a sanctuary jurisdiction and does not fully cooperate with federal immigration officials. That includes not honoring ICE detainer requests. “ICE was never notified of Mr. Gonzalez’ various releases,” Homan wrote in the statement regarding Gonzalez.

You're an idiot and an asshole. Eat My Fuck. People actual were killed in this fire and you decide it's a good idea to spread some BS Infowars/Breitbart story. Again, fell free to go fuck yourself you incredible slimly piece of shit. 

Edit: http://www.sfgate.com/local/article/North-Bay-fires-cause-drug-cartels-theory-Sonoma-12288046.php

 

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You're a disgrace. Gonzales had nothing to do with the Napa fires. Go back to PA.

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