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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Editor

blooper time!

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sc-33-blooper.jpg

Or is it? Here's a question that at first has the obvious answer of "NO", and that is once we start sailing the Santa Cruz 33 Anarchy III (first race is the CRA Halloween Regatta October 28), do you think we should fly the blooper that came with the boat? 

Pictured here is the Santa Cruz 33 Freight Train sailed by Gary Swenson in the (we think) 1977 Santa Barbara to King Harbor race. It is obviously working in the pic, but would it today? If it does, we'll have a new one built!

Jump in and let the insults fly!

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Yes, fly that thing.  DDW is the only way to go with that 5ksb, and the blooper is the only way to keep it upright.  But you do need 20kts of breeze, which may be a limiting factor where you are.

 

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yer gunna have the SD rater-haters buying a bunch of these :o:o:lol::lol:

Image result for ph test kit

But the sailmakers are gunna Love you as what was Old becomes new/HAWT Again B)

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5 minutes ago, poopie pants said:

gramps thinks that is a ranger 33 possibly in the MDR to PV race

dude that is awesome but i don't think we had one. and it takes an old fuck to remember that race, you old fuck.

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Why knot?  Go for it. 

 Just fly it correctly and not like the picture.  The owner would have smacked my with a which handle.

Play the halyard and keep the foot just off water.

 

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If you're racing PHRF,  better make sure your local board allows bloopers.

We found  the blooper had a fairly narrow range of wind angles it was effective at and wind probably had be in at least the mid to high teens.  It was a quite effective sail in Swiftsure on the long run down Juan de Fuca Strait.  Not quite DDW so near ideal conditions

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2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

If you're racing PHRF,  better make sure your local board allows bloopers.

We found  the blooper had a fairly narrow range of wind angles it was effective at and wind probably had be in at least the mid to high teens.  It was a quite effective sail in Swiftsure on the long run down Juan de Fuca Strait.  Not quite DDW so near ideal conditions

Sea lawyers.... gotta love um. That rule would have to have some cute wording. Something like "no free flying jibs"

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Simon Torvaldsen (Blondie S&S34) re-invigorated the blooper a couple of years ago.  S&S34 on S&S34 it did give a couple of tenths downwind - as long as you have somebody who knows how to trim it.  Simon will tell you there were a couple of disasters.  But, when he had the right people on board in the right winds it worked better than having the 130& or 150% headsail half way up.

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12 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Hand built by Windward Mark, with input from some old guy...

its a bloody awesome sail in that little window it likes.  Almost set and forget, and stabilises the roll enough to be able to pull the pole more aft than would normally be comfortable in the upper end of its range.

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20 minutes ago, Last Post said:

Seen them do better than that at times but asking 189 gorillas for a boat with a 24ft waterline? Tell him 'es dreamin!

Ad says it cost $500k in 2009 $'s OUCH!

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8 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Have a look at that vid above -- constant 8's in fairly benign conditions.

 

For something a bit more exciting.. peak logged during some shenanigans at night.

14701077_125058351296198_429151772000177

Looked at video. Narrator said 7's. Very hard to get excited about 7's esp if you are flying 3 sails. 

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What's the old saying?....."Put it up and gain half a knot; take it down and gain half a knot." Ours only comes out of the bag every few years, and you need good crew who knows how to trim it, but when it works, it works great. It's a great sail to buy used from Bacon's or one of the other resale lofts. No need to put good dollars towards a new one.

DSCN5177.JPG

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42 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Have a look at that vid above -- constant 8's in fairly benign conditions.

 

For something a bit more exciting.. peak logged during some shenanigans at night.

14701077_125058351296198_429151772000177

scary...

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If it's not against the rules, and it might provide a performance benefit, then why not?

I'm sure you plan on making some test runs in a non-racing setting first, to see if it's even worth all the effort. Get someone to take photos.

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3 hours ago, RATM said:

Sea lawyers.... gotta love um. That rule would have to have some cute wording. Something like "no free flying jibs"

Many moons ago, I raced on an IOR lead mine that came with every trick sail that has ever been made. Jib Top, Genoa staysail, spinnaker staysail and yes, a blooper. At the time, nobody had asym kites. All those trick sails had one thing in common, they measured in as headsails there for max size was an LP of 150% of J. If someone wants to prevent someone else from using a blooper, they can't just say "no bloopers"

 

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57 minutes ago, RATM said:

 

like the blooper...the double head rig it certain conditions when dialed in worked well....double head rig offshore in particular,just was not practical lugging around that sail combo for that very narrow condition

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9 hours ago, Dawg_House said:

Why knot?  Go for it. 

 Just fly it correctly and not like the picture.  The owner would have smacked my with a which handle.

Play the halyard and keep the foot just off water.

 

 

This

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Just for fun we one time flew 2 chutes on 2 poles going dead down wind on an Ericsson 35 in about 12-15......that boat never went so fast

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Unlike many I enjoyed the IOR boats and the terrific competition of the time.  When I had a masthead boat flying a blooper was often faster and more fun.  On the Peterson 43 a tallboy staysail was often in the mix as well (everyone had a sail to trim or a winch to grind).  If the rule you are racing under permits a blooper by all means use it to determine when it works and particularly when it permits beating your polars.

Robin

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You should use it. Give the waaa, waaa's some thing to wine about.

I asked Chuck about sailing Juiced in the Halloween race and we all dress up like O.J. since he just got out of jail but just a little to much in your face.

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5 hours ago, Last Post said:

Seen them do better than that at times but asking 189 gorillas for a boat with a 24ft waterline? Tell him 'es dreamin!

Says he spent $500K to build a 50 year old 34' boat.

I doubt he'll listen to reason.

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1 hour ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Just for fun we one time flew 2 chutes on 2 poles going dead down wind on an Ericsson 35 in about 12-15......that boat never went so fast

Is this you? :D

 

Twin Spinnakers.jpg

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Of course fly it!!

Definitely Santa Barbara- King Harbor Race,  around 1980, Kindred Spirit in the background.

 

 

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It's a toss up.  Do you trust your knot meter or would you rather have a beer?  See if it's faster.  If there's some dick next to you that you want to beat, put down your beer and bust out the Blooper.

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The thing that was counter intuitive about bloopers is when it was really windy (20+), the blooper helped stabilize the boat from doing death rolls due to the small mains and big mast head spinnakers. 

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5 minutes ago, brourke said:

The thing that was counter intuitive about bloopers is when it was really windy (20+), the blooper helped stabilize the boat from doing death rolls due to the small mains and big mast head spinnakers. 

I was just going to say the same thing...but held back wondering...did it just seem like that...just as it seemed it made you faster running in normal conditions.... :-)...the puzzling part of bloopers is that sometimes they were faster and other times  not so much...still fun reeling in a boat ahead with a blooper when they did not  have one... can't think of any class racing in that time that had bloopers...mostly it was different handicapped boats

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A proper blooper can fly as high as 145-150 AWA, , so it's not just for DDW. Light air jibe angle is Prob a bit higher...you're not going to need a 'light-air' blooper. It doesn't take much practice to set and fly it...take notes and figure out what wind speeds and angles it's worth flying. Don't bother trying to figure out how to jibe it. There's no market for used bloopers, so a used sail emporium price for a 33' boat is dirt cheap....$100-200.  I wouldn't buy a new one unless forced to. A staysail is going to work on the boat also, def worth looking in to. 

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Scooter, I had a Santa Cruz 27 for a decade -- from 1975 (new from the factory) until I moved to Europe in 1985. Since my brother is a sail maker, I had every sail anyone could imagine, including bloopers. The first few years, most other SC27s also had bloopers, and we often had several well sailed SC27s in any given race.

After about a year or two of Wet Wednesdays and other high-frequency events, it was very, very clear that bloopers were slower. Whichever boats used bloopers were down positions or at least distance by the leeward mark, no matter which boats used or did not use bloopers. And we all sometimes used them, and sometimes did not. All these boats had good sail programs and good sailors. All the boats were new. Racing was very tight.

SC27 and SC33 have essentially identical hull forms, SA/D, SA/WS, D/L ratios, so I would be astonished if this lesson did not apply to your SC33.

So I would CERTAINLY fly a blooper, just because its fun and keeps the entire crew involved, and is appropriate for the era the boat was built. Like playing tunes by the Beach Boys in a '63 Corvette convertible, or Highway Star in a '71 Plymouth Cuda Hemi with a 4 speed.

But I no longer care about winning trophies: I threw away a dumpster full of them in 1985. If you want trophies (nothing wrong with that!!) then don't fly the blooper.

I'm turbo-ing the shit out of my Olson 40!  I could not care less what happens to my rating.

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21 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Scooter, I had a Santa Cruz 27 for a decade -- from 1975 (new from the factory) until I moved to Europe in 1985. Since my brother is a sail maker, I had every sail anyone could imagine, including bloopers. The first few years, most other SC27s also had bloopers, and we often had several well sailed SC27s in any given race.

After about a year or two of Wet Wednesdays and other high-frequency events, it was very, very clear that bloopers were slower. Whichever boats used bloopers were down positions or at least distance by the leeward mark, no matter which boats used or did not use bloopers. And we all sometimes used them, and sometimes did not. All these boats had good sail programs and good sailors. All the boats were new. Racing was very tight.

SC27 and SC33 have essentially identical hull forms, SA/D, SA/WS, D/L ratios, so I would be astonished if this lesson did not apply to your SC33.

So I would CERTAINLY fly a blooper, just because its fun and keeps the entire crew involved, and is appropriate for the era the boat was built. Like playing tunes by the Beach Boys in a '63 Corvette convertible, or Highway Star in a '71 Plymouth Cuda Hemi with a 4 speed.

But I no longer care about winning trophies: I threw away a dumpster full of them in 1985. If you want trophies (nothing wrong with that!!) then don't fly the blooper.

I'm turbo-ing the shit out of my Olson 40!  I could not care less what happens to my rating.

... I could care less what happens to my rating.

Best post ever.

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28 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Scooter, I had a Santa Cruz 27 for a decade -- from 1975 (new from the factory) until I moved to Europe in 1985. Since my brother is a sail maker, I had every sail anyone could imagine, including bloopers. The first few years, most other SC27s also had bloopers, and we often had several well sailed SC27s in any given race.

After about a year or two of Wet Wednesdays and other high-frequency events, it was very, very clear that bloopers were slower. Whichever boats used bloopers were down positions or at least distance by the leeward mark, no matter which boats used or did not use bloopers. And we all sometimes used them, and sometimes did not. All these boats had good sail programs and good sailors. All the boats were new. Racing was very tight.

SC27 and SC33 have essentially identical hull forms, SA/D, SA/WS, D/L ratios, so I would be astonished if this lesson did not apply to your SC33.

So I would CERTAINLY fly a blooper, just because its fun and keeps the entire crew involved, and is appropriate for the era the boat was built. Like playing tunes by the Beach Boys in a '63 Corvette convertible, or Highway Star in a '71 Plymouth Cuda Hemi with a 4 speed.

But I no longer care about winning trophies: I threw away a dumpster full of them in 1985. If you want trophies (nothing wrong with that!!) then don't fly the blooper.

I'm turbo-ing the shit out of my Olson 40!  I could not care less what happens to my rating.

Using a blooper in Wed night RTB racing, or any RTB racing would have been a complete waste of time - especially since in the 70s and 80s all RTB was triangles, so one downwind leg out 6.  There was a decent local fleet of IOR 1T and 2T at the time, and I don't recall any of them flying bloopers in RTB races.

We carried a borrowed blooper for a couple Swiftsures- and it proved it's worth the one time we hoisted it - but it was perfect blooper conditions high teens WS, about 160 AWA

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+1 . Was always easier to break out the staysail or the light air genny and fly that wing on wing around the cans.  

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8 hours ago, il1395 said:

What's the old saying?....."Put it up and gain half a knot; take it down and gain half a knot." Ours only comes out of the bag every few years, and you need good crew who knows how to trim it, but when it works, it works great. It's a great sail to buy used from Bacon's or one of the other resale lofts. No need to put good dollars towards a new one.

DSCN5177.JPG

ain't that the truth! i was kidding about getting a new one. i'm fuckin nuts, but even i have my limits.

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Skottt,

we could build one in my garage and put a blue label on it and call it the real name "streaker"

p

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Just now, poncho said:

Skottt,

we could build one in my garage and put a blue label on it and call it the real name "streaker"

p

wow....blast from the past...:D

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41 minutes ago, Editor said:

ain't that the truth! i was kidding about getting a new one. i'm fuckin nuts, but even i have my limits.

Plus, they don't make the proper Blooper colors anymore.  None of the required green, black, orange, pink combinations.  Sad.

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what's the use?  Ya can't use digital numbers anymore- guess they were too easy to cut and apply.

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21 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Iv'e been thinking today....perhaps the notion could be revisited in 2017 with today's materials and different shape

 

A Cuben Fiber Blooper?  

 

Sounds like a solution in search of a problem!

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23 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Iv'e been thinking today....perhaps the notion could be revisited in 2017 with today's materials and different shape

 

And that might work! No. wait! you might have to shorten your E to IOR type numbers.

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10 minutes ago, poncho said:

And that might work! No. wait! you might have to shorten your E to IOR type numbers.

ahh...this old ruler is ripe for exploitation...PHRF classes etc...drive the committees crazy....amusement purposes only... why am I thinking of a battened fat head ..something

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Hah.  I'll chime in as being on of the B dock bodies inChannel Islands (only the Ed and the Dawg would know what I am talking about ).  Gary was with Watts then.  SB-KH likely '77.  Crushed it in the PV race to come.  Miss those days and those peps.

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8 hours ago, brourke said:

The thing that was counter intuitive about bloopers is when it was really windy (20+), the blooper helped stabilize the boat from doing death rolls due to the small mains and big mast head spinnakers. 

And yet further irony about IOR boats - a rolling boat was a fast boat. We used one on the halfy Silver Shamrock a fair bit. It was the first one built for a frac rig in Aus at the time.

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20 hours ago, Editor said:

sc-33-blooper.jpg

Or is it? Here's a question that at first has the obvious answer of "NO", and that is once we start sailing the Santa Cruz 33 Anarchy III (first race is the CRA Halloween Regatta October 28), do you think we should fly the blooper that came with the boat? 

Pictured here is the Santa Cruz 33 Freight Train sailed by Gary Swenson in the (we think) 1977 Santa Barbara to King Harbor race. It is obviously working in the pic, but would it today? If it does, we'll have a new one built!

Jump in and let the insults fly!

Fly the friggin' blooper ! Back in the olden days I flew this beast off the halyard standing on the foredeck. Surrounded by all that sail and the sound of the bow wake echoing off the sails was just a great experience. Do it !!! That was with Timmy Woodhouse BTW. 

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13 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

And yet further irony about IOR boats - a rolling boat was a fast boat. We used one on the halfy Silver Shamrock a fair bit. It was the first one built for a frac rig in Aus at the time.

In my experience...the key to a white knuckle IOR offshore rolly polly was not to try and counter the coming round up by fighting the boat by horsing the helm down...but to steer the course and endure the rail to rail~~~worked best for me

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49 minutes ago, ovclampett said:

22062_1254648572556_3069180_n.jpg.d68be08d91651fceb816c4e746df2eca.jpgYes,Its worth it.Major Style points.Bloop Well Bloop Often.

 

Yep.

 

image.png.e5062bfe937fa65a4e9c8875715e3734.png

 

Kialoa III.jpg

Fred Again.jpg

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26 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

In my experience...the key to a white knuckle IOR offshore rolly polly was not to try and counter the coming round up by fighting the boat by horsing the helm down...but to steer the course and endure the rail to rail~~~worked best for me

Agree completely. The end of the boom and the end of the pole should spend equal time pointing at the sun.

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39 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

WTF...Kialoa....someone forgot to shake the reef out of mizzen....

I'm almost certain that the wind got caught further up the line. :D

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YES to the blooper!  I used them on IOR boats on the late 70s and on a Serendipity 43 in the Caribbean in the early 80s. For one thing, every time I looked up at the halyard, it was pulling forward.  In my book, that means the BOAT was being pulled forward.

And another thing: the halyard guy had to keep it flying low enough to just kiss the water, the sheet guy trimmed enough (yep, they worked the opposite way from normal sails, you trimmed it until it collapsed, then eased).  Two guys who were paying attention instead of drinking beer.

And as a bowman, they made jibes more interesting, with the dropping, throwing the halyard over the new sheet etc.

Asyms are faster, but the bow was more interesting before...

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2 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

WTF...Kialoa....someone forgot to shake the reef out of mizzen....

Some of those trenches in the ocean still haven't filled in.  

Let the boat roll, but then there came a time....Mast head goes left...steer left.  Sooner rather than later. 

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Really easy to get excited by 7's when the competition needs to finish next friday to beat you last tuesday. 

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(Yawning mightily).....SC33.....blooper......so yesterday (....you said "Let the insults fly")

But  boat restoration projects are fun and once completed, provide great satisfaction.  I bought a POS, totally wrecked Santana 525 in '04 and completely restored her- an enjoyable project and I still see her out sailing and looking good to this day.  And it's hard to resist because old boats can be had for little money

IMG_0001.JPG

IMG_0002.JPG

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15 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

WTF...Kialoa....someone forgot to shake the reef out of mizzen....

Given the leverage of a mizzen, you often times don't want it up DDW. 

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2 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

Given the leverage of a mizzen, you often times don't want it up DDW. 

I think the reef is to help the mizzen spinnaker fly....it's much bigger than the mizzen.

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On 10/12/2017 at 9:18 AM, SloopJonB said:

Is this you? :D

 

Twin Spinnakers.jpg

That is  some roomey looking Ericson 35!!

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20 hours ago, RKoch said:

image.jpg

great shot! What a cool boat WP was so far ahead of her time!

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On 10/11/2017 at 10:04 PM, Editor said:

sc-33-blooper.jpg

Or is it? Here's a question that at first has the obvious answer of "NO", and that is once we start sailing the Santa Cruz 33 Anarchy III (first race is the CRA Halloween Regatta October 28), do you think we should fly the blooper that came with the boat? 

Pictured here is the Santa Cruz 33 Freight Train sailed by Gary Swenson in the (we think) 1977 Santa Barbara to King Harbor race. It is obviously working in the pic, but would it today? If it does, we'll have a new one built!

Jump in and let the insults fly!

works much better if you dont suck it in behind the main. ease halyard 10 feet, please 

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On 10/12/2017 at 3:41 AM, duncan (the other one) said:

Have a look at that vid above -- constant 8's in fairly benign conditions.

 

For something a bit more exciting.. peak logged during some shenanigans at night.

14701077_125058351296198_429151772000177

I need clarification on this post...

Does the display show max boatspeed of 18 knots?

or max boatspeed of 5.9 knots in 18 knots of windspeed? :)

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5 hours ago, Trickypig said:

I need clarification on this post...

Does the display show max boatspeed of 18 knots?

or max boatspeed of 5.9 knots in 18 knots of windspeed? :)

max boatspeed of 18 kn logged during a race.  Picture is post-race (hence no headsail and flaked main)

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2 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

 

max boatspeed of 18 kn logged during a race.  Picture is post-race (hence no headsail and flaked main)

Yeah I could see it was post race... just 'aving a lend.

BUT 18 knots!!!! That's smoking for a 1960's IOR lead mine like an S&S34. You guys are having more fun than the sleds.

Nothing like the danger of crashing to make it more interesting.

 

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On 10/11/2017 at 10:04 PM, Editor said:

sc-33-blooper.jpg

Or is it? Here's a question that at first has the obvious answer of "NO", and that is once we start sailing the Santa Cruz 33 Anarchy III (first race is the CRA Halloween Regatta October 28), do you think we should fly the blooper that came with the boat? 

Pictured here is the Santa Cruz 33 Freight Train sailed by Gary Swenson in the (we think) 1977 Santa Barbara to King Harbor race. It is obviously working in the pic, but would it today? If it does, we'll have a new one built!

Jump in and let the insults fly!

Deke was driving.

 

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Saw the "back in black" photo.  Your sail number is 7096?

Is that a "vanity" number, or just the next one up for recylcing in SoCal? 

Windward Passage (1968) is 7099.  My little Ericson (1985) is 7093...

 

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On 10/16/2017 at 6:24 PM, pudge said:

Always loved flying our blooper, as a kid who didn' know any better...Tylaska ad from Sailing World, October 2017:

IMG_1579.thumb.JPG.7e12b1e124eff9865e48c859590c40e7.JPG

 

Love to see B3 in action. The best part about bloopers is they usually didn't change with the new paint job. I mean how often are you buying a new one.

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