JBE

Which autopilot?

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5 months away in the Pacific....lots of little issues and fixes ,one only problem I couldn't beat was with the raymarine autopilot.st 6002.

It switches to standby by itself. Might be 1 hour, might be 12 hours, might be 20. Not normally much of an issue but in some circumstances it has the potential for drama. Reading up about it ,it seems like an extremely common issue with this product.

Don't want mfd. What completely stand alone ,independent ap should I be looking at?

Simple course ,perhaps wind would be nice,already have a lecomble and Schmitt electric/hydraulic drive so I just need the computer.45 ft ketch.

One that can be trusted.

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Course master out of Aus, used one for 6 years around the pacific

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Look at the Pelagic autopilot.  I put one on my Olson 29 and it works great, most to the SHTP racers use this pilot.

My YouTube has short videos of it working (look up Olson 29 Ronin on Youtube).  

Just a happy customer, not affiliated with the company in any way.

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Love my Simard AP20.  Several control heads available, hook it up to any drive.

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4 hours ago, JBE said:

It switches to standby by itself. Might be 1 hour, might be 12 hours, might be 20. Not normally much of an issue but in some circumstances it has the potential for drama.

You sure voltage sag is not the problem? What Course Computer model do you have?

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Ray's older AP's had many problems. Cheap (or, if you prefer, cost effective), but not very reliable. 

The new models, Evo xx are much improved both from navigation and electronic building pratice point of view.  Suggest you take a look on these. 

There's one aspect one has to look out for: Ray has now changed their way of acting, issue new updates annually. To update requires a Ray mfd ... OTOH, software for the EVO is quite stable now. If you go along that route see to that you get the latest software, or reasonably new.

//J

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NKE, love it to bits.

Except for a wee problem that has now reared it's head where it kicks in by itself and  tries to turn the boat hard. Only happens once per outing, an hour after we leave dock. Hasn't  happened DW yet, only going  upwind thankfully. (Am thinking it's a crew MOB transmitter battery going flat, but no MOB alert...sigh...electronics...) 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Jaramaz said:

Ray's older AP's had many problems. Cheap (or, if you prefer, cost effective), but not very reliable. 

Not too sure about that.. the SG series Course Computer was both expensive and reliable and there is a lot of them still doing the job well considering their age.

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The Ray autopilots' response to any fault or glitch is to revert to standby. Typically, a significant fraction of the "issue with the product" is due to improper installation and/or poor maintenance. The 6002 uses SeaTalk, which is generally pretty robust and easy to troubleshoot. Have you checked the Seatalk connections to make sure everything is in good shape and that you're not driving too many devices from your Seatalk network controller (likely the autopilot course computer)?

There's a common mistake people make with the three pin "bent straight" seatalk connector where they don't insert it fully. There's a ridge on the connect that's supposed to act as a seal once fully inserted into the mating socket but a lot of people think it's a stop and never fully seat the connector. Unfortunately, this is enough to establish the electrical contacts but it leaves the connector prone to backing out over time. It actually needs to be inserted another 1/8" or so, at which point the seal is made and there's enough friction that it'll never back out. 

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Not too sure about that.. the SG series Course Computer was both expensive and reliable and there is a lot of them still doing the job well considering their age.

+1. I've got an S3G and it's been bulletproof.

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
52 minutes ago, Jaramaz said:

Ray's older AP's had many problems. Cheap (or, if you prefer, cost effective), but not very reliable. 

Not too sure about that.. the SG series Course Computer was both expensive and reliable and there is a lot of them still doing the job well considering their age.

 

13 minutes ago, IStream said:

+1. I've got an S3G and it's been bulletproof.

Stream I think that is the AutoHelm DNA. All the subsequent owners recognised that and didn't fuck with AP releases unlike a lot of their other offerings. I think they even went to the trouble of future proofing them by ensuring all new Control Heads and MFD's could drive them.

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14 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

Stream I think that is the AutoHelm DNA. All the subsequent owners recognised that and didn't fuck with AP releases unlike a lot of their other offerings. I think they even went to the trouble of future proofing them by ensuring all new Control Heads and MFD's could drive them.

Guys, the OP has a ST 6000. It is those that are under discussion. Shape up, will you?

 

//J

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9 minutes ago, Jaramaz said:
14 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

Stream I think that is the AutoHelm DNA. All the subsequent owners recognised that and didn't fuck with AP releases unlike a lot of their other offerings. I think they even went to the trouble of future proofing them by ensuring all new Control Heads and MFD's could drive them.

Guys, the OP has a ST 6000. It is those that are under discussion. Shape up, will you?

 

//J

Autohelm is the original. Autohelm > Raytheon > Raymarine. My Raymarine AP is labeled "Autohelm Series".

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Thanks Ish you are far more polite than I.. and 

Jarhead it is 6002 not 6000 and that is only the control head dickhead. The OP is keeping his course computer a secret.

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thanks Ish you are far more polite than I.. and 

Jarhead it is 6002 not 6000 and that is only the control head dickhead. The OP is keeping his course computer a secret.

Jack, your are always so ... nice. A lot of meaningless post you have produced, just trying to provoce. 

Now, if you want to go to details ST 6000 is of course the series. If you look at Rays AP in the 4000 / 6000 they are about the same, sharing many parts. Quality of these are not the best. Many owners have problems with these.

When it comes to the OP computer he is stating that in his first post. Suggest you read again. 

//J

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1 hour ago, Jaramaz said:

When it comes to the OP computer he is stating that in his first post. Suggest you read again. 

Enlighten me. What Course computer does he have?

1 hour ago, Jaramaz said:

A lot of meaningless post you have produced, just trying to provoce. 

Really? Discussion between stream and I was about the.S series course computer. Have a guess what series Control head that computer was usually packaged with?

As for a lot of meaningless post (sic) and provoce (sic) well pounds to peanuts he has a voltage sag issue which I had already posted. I would put data source ie GPS or wind drop out next and EMF interference from maybe a recent electronics instal in the neighbourhood or cable change next. Faulty unit I would put last as they were not problematic units contrary to your post. 

Your post offered no solution and indicated you have no experience at all with the OP's product or problem.

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Why spend bandwidth discussing which Raymarine and how it specifically each one fails? 

Depending on your level of kit and wallet:

B&G H5000 pilot with sensors for wind, speed, GPS, rudder angle, heading, 3D motion.

Don’t need MFD, though it plays nicely with them. 

It was pretty standard on Vendee, and works just fine on my old 40’ yawl at much less challenging speeds. 

Auto tack, auto gybe, gust response and tunable/learning response. https://bandg.com/product/h5000-autopilot-computer/

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I don't remember what the box is but I  take the point of checking through the systems and connections. I did do some of that while away but didn't dig too deep, the idea was to keep it going and not disturb it or make it worse.

That worked. Now we're back on the marina I  can start back checking through the systems. There was a change made to the sea talk network by a marine electrician relatively recently  before we left and the problem  emerged and that may have contributed. It's still pretty old though .

Yes B&G seem well represented here,  that's on the list to investigate.

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Here's another vid of the Pelagic on the Olson 29, a two sail reach at 8.5-9 knots.

 

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Couple comments,

This is based on my exp personally on my boat and at work on commercial boats. As well as research for myself.

A stand alone pilot system minus drive properly installed is most likely going to be fine as long as it's from a reputable manufacturer.  A networked pilot pulling 0183 data properly installed will also be issue free for the most part but will add some component cost.  This is what 99% of commercial vessels are using just bigger stuff.  And lastly from my own exp that of friends and talking to techs, a N2k networked pilot on the main backbone is going to be problematic.  Not something that can't be overcome but be prepared for mystery issues, I would probably include seatalk in this but I have no personal exp just stuff I read.  Bottom line N2k is gettinng sorted out still at the cost of the consumer.  

 

That said after about six months of trial and error and lots of bs I very much like our Simrad pilot we have the NAC 3 driving a Jeffa electric drive, and two ap44 control heads.  I was very hesitant to try the newer pilot as I really liked the Robertson based older Simrad pilot, but they will not be supporting these much longer according to them.

After much bs we determined our Garmi  GND 10 nexus to Nema converter for our annometer was kicking out something that would randomly drop the pilot offline.  This may have been fixed in a firmware update we are not sure as we just received the warranty GND10.  Worse case we lose wind to the pilot or have to get the data there filtered through something like a Yachtsystems device.

The Simrad stuff is very easy to instal and easy to commission and setup.  They will even let you address instances for other devices.  Tech support has been very good as well.

I believe there are little or no differences between Simrad and BG other than packing but am not sure.

Comnav was a alternate brand that was recommended other than Simrad but I have never used them.

 

If I had to do it over I think I would stay with a 0183 network and the older Simrad unit, but I'm in too deep to go back now.

 

 

 

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On 2017-10-16 at 4:30 AM, jack_sparrow said:

Enlighten me. What Course computer does he have?

Really? Discussion between stream and I was about the.S series course computer. Have a guess what series Control head that computer was usually packaged with?

As for a lot of meaningless post (sic) and provoce (sic) well pounds to peanuts he has a voltage sag issue which I had already posted. I would put data source ie GPS or wind drop out next and EMF interference from maybe a recent electronics instal in the neighbourhood or cable change next. Faulty unit I would put last as they were not problematic units contrary to your post. 

Your post offered no solution and indicated you have no experience at all with the OP's product or problem.

Oh well, Jack. No "dickhead" this time?  You are otherwise an expert in addressing others in such language. That is certainly provocing. 

For the computer issue the OP said in his first post: 

"raymarine autopilot.st 6002"  ... "Simple course ,perhaps wind would be nice,already have a lecomble and Schmitt electric/hydraulic drive so I just need the computer.45 ft ketch."

I have had Ray 4000 and 6000 series AP:s. Both series was bad designs (minmizing manufacturing cost) resulting in faulty behavior. As is reported on many places at internet. They are simply not reliable. 

And yes, I did offer a simple solution. Read again. I will not repeat. And yes, I have experience of these products and of OP:s problem. 

As it is rather worthless to try to discuss with you as we have seen in multiple threads I stop the discussion with you here. 

//J

 

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I had a look at the above deck connections and slave control head yesterday. one maybe less than perfect connection . I'll  persevere for this season and see if it continues to drop out, I  won't know until we do a day run ,or maybe 12 or 20 hours.

Thanks for the video ronin.  

Thanks Jake.I  was aware simrad and b and G are the same now.

Thanks jaramaz, I still haven't dragged the manuals out or crawled up the tunnel past 5 months of cruising cap to look at the box, one of the old control heads was in fact an st 6000+  and was replaced by the 6002 at some stage. It's a pretty old pilot but reliable until it was connected into the plotter via Seatalk. It ran fine that way for a while but of course opens up a lot more possibilities for bad connections etc as you guys say.

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19 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Couple comments,

This is based on my exp personally on my boat and at work on commercial boats. As well as research for myself.

A stand alone pilot system minus drive properly installed is most likely going to be fine as long as it's from a reputable manufacturer.  A networked pilot pulling 0183 data properly installed will also be issue free for the most part but will add some component cost.  This is what 99% of commercial vessels are using just bigger stuff.  And lastly from my own exp that of friends and talking to techs, a N2k networked pilot on the main backbone is going to be problematic.  Not something that can't be overcome but be prepared for mystery issues, I would probably include seatalk in this but I have no personal exp just stuff I read.  Bottom line N2k is gettinng sorted out still at the cost of the consumer.  

 

That said after about six months of trial and error and lots of bs I very much like our Simrad pilot we have the NAC 3 driving a Jeffa electric drive, and two ap44 control heads.  I was very hesitant to try the newer pilot as I really liked the Robertson based older Simrad pilot, but they will not be supporting these much longer according to them.

After much bs we determined our Garmi  GND 10 nexus to Nema converter for our annometer was kicking out something that would randomly drop the pilot offline.  This may have been fixed in a firmware update we are not sure as we just received the warranty GND10.  Worse case we lose wind to the pilot or have to get the data there filtered through something like a Yachtsystems device.

The Simrad stuff is very easy to instal and easy to commission and setup.  They will even let you address instances for other devices.  Tech support has been very good as well.

I believe there are little or no differences between Simrad and BG other than packing but am not sure.

Comnav was a alternate brand that was recommended other than Simrad but I have never used them.

If I had to do it over I think I would stay with a 0183 network and the older Simrad unit, but I'm in too deep to go back now.

 

This is interesting, I tend to agree to a large extent:

One my latest boat I started with a NMEA 0183 based installation. The GPS/ Plotter had N2K for the GPS but thet was easy to separate in a specific very thin network. No problem. 

Then I up-graded, had to move most into N2k, with equipment from more than one manufacturer. Did not work well. Changed so allparts came from one manufacturer - everything works! Can even mix N2k and 0183. Works fine that too. 

One could suspect propritary messages on N2k which cause problems. 

 

//J

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4 hours ago, Jaramaz said:

For the computer issue the OP said in his first post: 

"raymarine autopilot.st 6002"  ... "Simple course ,perhaps wind would be nice,already have a lecomble and Schmitt electric/hydraulic drive so I just need the computer.45 ft ketch."

Ogh dear. 6002 is control head and L&S is the drive. The course computer is not nominated. The closest the OP has got to identifying it is calling it the box

4 hours ago, JBE said:

, I still haven't dragged the manuals out or crawled up the tunnel past 5 months of cruising cap to look at the box,

and

4 hours ago, Jaramaz said:

I have had Ray 4000 and 6000 series AP:s.

 

On 15/10/2017 at 11:54 AM, Jaramaz said:

The new models, Evo xx are much improved both from navigation and electronic building pratice point of view. 

It would seem you are on your 3rd Ray autopilot and still don't know what a course computer is. And your simple solution, go out and by a new model Evo.

 

4 hours ago, Jaramaz said:

And yes, I did offer a simple solution.

Matey you fail what is known as the sniff test, and I have to say it is pretty strong smell you are giving off.

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That was 6 down votes from the same gutless troll in this one thread and many more in anothers in the space of a minute. I'm so glad you're wasting your time dickhead, then again you probably have plenty of time on your hands. Don't forget this one now Mr Idiot.

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^^^So glad you didn't miss that down vote..somehow I don't think you're a digital detective though.

PS and you got this one too...pure genius..what do you use to cover up your footprints??..your shoes??

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Soft target Jar..you really are not very bright.

PS. So the fools jumps in. Hint idiots go check your IP addresses and your email address and those of any sock you may have if you want to keep this up. 

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NKE if you can afford it. Not sure what's wrong with shaggy's but IME once set up, they just work even if you are a bit overpowered in cross seas. 

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CPT probably hasn't changed their brains in 30 years. Good choice for a wheel mounted robust drive for a Hans Christian 38, but not for any performance boat. Modern pilots with rate gyros steer so much better.

Hmm - maybe they have changed.

Does the CPT use a fluxgate compass?

The CPT uses an electronic heading sensor which uses gyro, acceleration and magnetic sensors to determine the compass heading.

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On 10/17/2017 at 9:12 PM, Jaramaz said:

Oh well, Jack. No "dickhead" this time?  You are otherwise an expert in addressing others in such language. That is certainly provocing. 

For the computer issue the OP said in his first post: 

"raymarine autopilot.st 6002"  ... "Simple course ,perhaps wind would be nice,already have a lecomble and Schmitt electric/hydraulic drive so I just need the computer.45 ft ketch."

I have had Ray 4000 and 6000 series AP:s. Both series was bad designs (minmizing manufacturing cost) resulting in faulty behavior. As is reported on many places at internet. They are simply not reliable. 

And yes, I did offer a simple solution. Read again. I will not repeat. And yes, I have experience of these products and of OP:s problem. 

As it is rather worthless to try to discuss with you as we have seen in multiple threads I stop the discussion with you here. 

//J

 

For whats its worth Ive been using Segatron autopilots for decades.   Never a failure.  This Is expensive equipment .. the company is well established

if you see them at a boatshow or trade fair , have a chat .

 

 

IMG_7789.PNG

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