Dave J

Pilothouse For Puget Sound, $40K Or Less

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Hi, this is my first post so hopefully it's in the right place.  While my sailing goal has been to work my way up to a Valiant 40, a wife, house, kids, their college and the dog have put a damper on that.  I've had various boats up to 30 ft and am ready to go pilothouse or at least something more comfortable.  I would still like some performance.  Boats I've considered are the Pearson 36 Pilothouse of the 365 line, Truant/Saturna, LM 30 and 32, Mariner 38, Tanzer 10.5 and Southerly 30 to 32.  I like the looks of the Gulf 32 and Fishers but don't think they would satisfy my sailing needs.  My philosophy is to get the smallest boat that meets my needs which seems to be around 30 to 34 ft with 6 ft headroom throughout, if possible.  A Gulf 27 or 29 is probably too small due to head room constraints.  Having decent forward visibility is sure a plus.   From other posts, larger boats may be necessary for that but those are not an option. The Pearson is near the top of the list.  Probably the top boat is the Valiant 40 pilothouse, or any Perry design, but too expensive for me.  So, any thoughts, specifically on the Pearson 36 pilothouse and Mariner 38, since both were for sale around here recently for under $40K?  Thoughts on the other boats I mentioned or any I haven't would be great, too.  I plan to daysail and also cruise the sound for a few days at a time with my wife, sometimes by myself, but would really like to get out of the weather at times.  If we can't find a pilothouse, other boats we like are the Nonsuch 26 and 30 and Freedom 30 for their simplicity, freestanding rigs, interior volume and performance.  I've had a Herreshoff America 18 and Marshall Sanderling 18 so could enjoy a larger catboat.   A dodger and cockpit cover could act as a pilothouse when needed. A daysailer like a Wayfarer 16 and a pilothouse with less performance if the price is right could work but having it all in one boat would be ideal.  I'm flexible...  Thanks in advance.

 

 

Good Old Boat Pearson 36.jpg

Yachtworld Mariner 38.jpg

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Dave:

Some of the V-40 PH models were blister boats. I would keep my eye out for one. Possible you could find one in your price range. Great sailing boat. I preferred it to the regular model.

One of my ex boat partners bought a Cooper. He was a very fastidious CPA type of guy. He really likes it, Kept it for years.

 

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Sceptre 36 - nice to look at, average at best sailing quality but no worse than most you've listed

Gulf 32 has a full keel underbody if I recall

Vancouver 32 (co-worker just bought one) - nicely executed but heavy. 

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Thanks for the info and suggestions.  There are a couple of Coopers for sale, one as low as $20K which I assume needs some work.  I was never sure if these were well made Canadian boats or related to the Bayliner US brand.  http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Cooper-Pilothouse--3106503/Port-hadlock/WA/United-States

I didn't think the Scepter 36 was built as a pilothouse.  I'll have to investigate.

I've read some info over the years about the blisters due to the fire retardant resin and have seen some with them.  I don't remember anything about the blisters being a safety issue that can lead to delamination or whatever osmosis blisters end up doing.  I haven't had much experience with them other than a few here and there.  Are the Valiant blisters mainly cosmetic and nothing to worry about from the cabin top to the keel?  Are they filled or hollow?  Just grind, fill and paint if desired or leave them alone and just enjoy a great boat?

This is probably one of the lowest prices out there, $25K in Texas for a V-40 pilothouse.  http://sailingtexas.com/201701/svaliant40102.html

I've also read that boats from hot, humid climates like Florida and Texas may have seen more than their share of sun and humidity damage?

 

 

Valiant 40PH Texas.jpg

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Not to split hairs regarding pilot houses..... but 

Most small boats advertised as Pilothouse models are in fact raised salons and in very little way a functional pilot house.  My point would be to refine your list of wants.  Do you want to be out of the weather underway, do you want to be able to drive and sail the boat inside, are you looking for a specific asthetic.  I would argue under 45' it's very hard to make a pilot house boat with full functionality and not loose your salon etc below.  This is of course not considering puritanical herishofy layouts. This is why most are some combination of a pilot house with verying levels of functionality and a raised saloon.  A spindrift is huge below and a decent compromise, would make a nice PNW boat.  I think the gulfs are perfect for a couple in the PNW who use there boat heavily year round. The Babas are nice but with all of them finding a non pos for that money might be tough. Adding 10-20k to your top end will open your market a lot.  

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Good ideas.  I was just going to reply that an Islander 36 Freeport would be another nice one with a great interior layout. This pic has been a favorite of mine showing two side by side at the Poulsbo marina a few years ago.  I read Yacht Design According to Perry and enjoyed his background info on them.  With no inside steering, I could use an autopilot remote for steering but a throttle would be handier. 

Anything with some headroom and a way to see forward would work.  It may come to putting more $ in the pot after ruling out lesser boats or even going back to a good dodger.

I have a question for Bob Perry.  About 15 to 20 yrs ago I went aboard a fairly narrow sailboat you designed that was for sale at Shilshole.  It was about 36 to 39 ft, the forward end of the cabin cut in on both sides by about a foot with small forward facing windows on each cut in.  The dealer commented about it being able to motor fast and possibly be trailerable for cross country trips.  It was yellow from what I remember.  I sure liked it.  Do you have any background info on it?

Islander 36 Freeports Poulsbo.jpg

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Dave:

You went aboard KIYI a custom 36' trailerable bat I designed for Dick Philbrick., bright yellow. I have been seeing it anchored up at Anacortes lately. Great boat.

 

KIYI and he Freeport 36 are very good sailing boats, the Freeport will surprise you, but I don't consider either true motor sailers because they don't have inside steering. The V040PH does.

37064375344_4207d5fe47_b.jpgKIYI by robert perry, on Flickr

37741644602_af7b8aff9d_k.jpgV 40 PH docker by robert perry, on Flickr

37103543913_00934f4d2c.jpgFreeeport 37 spin shot by robert perry, on Flickr

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Since you mentioned the Nonsuch 26, I though a couple pictures of friend's boat would be in order. I'm not showing this as a suggestion. Just as a curiosity.

(Well, actually, one picture due to the silly upload restriction. I'll post a picture showing the structure of his semi-permanent house when I'm allowed of the Group W bench.)  

He has pretty much pilot-housed his boat.

Nonsuch 26 1s.jpg

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Here is the second picture of the Nonsuch 26. You can see the SS supports and hard top of the "pilothouse."

Nonsuch 26 2s.jpg

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Yes, Bob, that's the boat.  I'll check out your blog.  There's just something about a Valiant.  Thanks.

Thanks for the Nonsuch info.  The Nonsuch is actually my wife's top pick and are in the price range.  A lot is being done these days with dodgers, cockpit covers and enclosures isn't it.

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There's a really cool looking Skookum 34 built with a pilothouse that's been on the Oly Peninsula craigslist for a long time.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/bod/d/34-ft-1981-skookum-34/6320646179.html

 

Personally, I think that looks like a great boat. I'm just not a full keel + wheel steering kind of guy.

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I've noticed the Skookum, too.  It does look like a nice one but I think the performance would let me down like you say.

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I was under the impression that Skookum built boats that would resist direct strikes by North Korean  ICBM's.  Fast? Hmm, maybe not so much, but beefsteak, for sure.  This is just me recalling years-old hearsay, though. I don't see the hogging,  the sheer looks OK to me, but that IS just one picture and you have a better eye for that stuff than I do, Bob.

The interior is nice, that boat is also on Yachtworld.  Personally, I like tillers and semi-balanced, detached rudders...though a big ole skeg don't bother me none.

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6 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

Here is the second picture of the Nonsuch 26. You can see the SS supports and hard top of the "pilothouse."

Nonsuch 26 2s.jpg

I dunno...

I was gonna say that this one should go in the 'ugly dodgers' thread, Utilitarian maybe, but I'm going with 'ugly' mostly....

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Veegs:

I'd go with "Utilitarian" rather than ugly. "Utilitarian" is one step better than "agricultural". It's not so bad but it for sure is not a motor sailer.

Blowing like stink here tonight. Gusts to 50 mph earlier. My Honda gen set, Toshiro Mifune, is in the on deck circle. Just in case.

Enjoying our new puppy.

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Utilitarian works...

No Honda genset but lost power for 4 hours this afternoon.... I had to do the 'cooking'----so Anthony's restaurant it was!

 

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53 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Veegs:

I'd go with "Utilitarian" rather than ugly. "Utilitarian" is one step better than "agricultural". It's not so bad but it for sure is not a motor sailer.

Blowing like stink here tonight. Gusts to 50 mph earlier. My Honda gen set, Toshiro Mifune, is in the on deck circle. Just in case.

Enjoying our new puppy.

New puppy? Getting ready for Chinese New Year? What flavour breed is it?

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i found the tolerance for "utilitarian" setups increases with the need for the shelter they provide.

or in other words: it's fucking october mate, let's talk about a better looking setup in march..

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1 hour ago, Simon75 said:

i found the tolerance for "utilitarian" setups increases with the need for the shelter they provide.

or in other words: it's fucking october mate, let's talk about a better looking setup in march..

The Nonsuch is sailed in WLIS, mostly in summer. I'm  not sure why the owner wants so much protection from the elements.

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1 hour ago, SemiSalt said:

The Nonsuch is sailed in WLIS, mostly in summer. I'm  not sure why the owner wants so much protection from the elements.

SUN

As much as I enjoy its benefits, I find I can tolerate less and less of it directly.  (my dermatologist would agree)

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17 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

Here is the second picture of the Nonsuch 26. You can see the SS supports and hard top of the "pilothouse."

Nonsuch 26 2s.jpg

I'm sorry, but that's both ugly and agricultural. Does the hard top really need to extend all the way forward to the end of the sliding hatch? Would it have killed him to cut a foot off the leading edge and cant the vertical supports back a bit? That and a little bit more coin for Makrolon instead of vinyl would've gone a long way...

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I'm with Simon on this one. The hard top has to do its job. How does it look when you are sitting under it?

 

For me, the fact that with a screw driver you can remove the entire structure in half an hour means that is carries very little aesthetic weight.

You don't like it? Take it off!

 

Ish:

We got another Portuguese Water Dog ("Porty"). This one is pearl and she is Ruby's niece. She's a pistol and very self confident. Ruby seems to be adjusting, slowly. Note the very carefully arranged photo background. Boomer will kill me! Pumpkin , our cat, touched noses with the pup yesterday and now they are buds. I'll go to the boatyard today so Ruby knows our schedule has not been disrupted by the pup.

 

37761795632_bffd035699_k.jpg013 by robert perry, on Flickr

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Nice little fella.  When we get a boat, I'll have to introduce our young dog to sailing.  I assume she'll just stay in the cockpit?  So far on paddle boards and rowing she's discovered she can swim with the seals anytime she wants.  Thank goodness for the handle on her life preserver.  Any suggestions?

I've been researching the Cooper 353.  Looks like they all have Saildrives.  Would you shy away from one due to the possibility of corrosion, the need to change zincs every 6 to 12 months and the hull gasket every 5 to 7 years at a cost of about $2K or more since the engine has to come out, from what I've read?  The 2nd and 3rd pics show the extreme where the Saildrive hadn't been touched in 4 years.  I assume it had to be replaced at a cost of about $5K for the unit plus labor.  Thanks to a GoPro and flashlight on a pole we could see it was solid muscles!

Steering.jpg

Saildrive 3 - Copy.jpg

Saildrive 2.jpg

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A bit bigger and maybe a bit more dough but one hell of a motor sailer, the Cheoy Lee 43 Long Range MS. Designed by my good friend bob perry. This one is in Europe and getting ready for a family circumnavigation. A bit too much crap on de back for me but I suppose it's practical if not beautiful. The lovely contours to the cabin trunk were crafted by my helper at the time Gary Grant. There is a lot of subtle complexity going on there. These boats will surprise you with their performance. Many years ago I went to the SFYC Stagg Cruise on a CL 43 MS. In the crew were designers Dave Pedrick and Frank MacClear. They were puzzled by how the boat could motor so fast. The only boat that passed us as we steamed up the Delta was a SC 50. I sent them the hull lines when I got home. It's a chunk of a boat with huge tanks. I think I started the design with the tank layout then wrapped a hull around it.

23943394018_a63a6da21c_k.jpgCL 43 MS at dock by robert perry, on Flickr

37764331322_90b6674207_k.jpgCL 43 MS 2 by robert perry, on Flickr

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That is quite the boat.  Speaking of great boats, about 34 yrs ago four our honeymoon, we charted a Panda 40, Decatur, for 10 days out of Anacortes.  I was in full keel mode so wanted to give one a try.  Loved the boat and its sailing manners but haven't seen it since.  Any idea where it is?

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Dave:

No, not sure where it is. I do remember the boat. A taiwanese owner just bought TOUCAN, a local boat, and sailed it back to Taiwan. He has nothing but praise for the boat after a demanding, heavy air passage. They are fabulous boats,,,,until you want to back up. Bow thruster recommended.  The PH version is one of my best designs. Great layout.

 

There are PH Tayana 37's around. A PH Baba 35 would suit you just fine as would a Tashiba 36 PH but they are hard to find.

37796591031_45d2d586a8_b.jpgBrigadoon 2 by robert perry, on Flickr

Tricky Pig and I raced with Donn and Keri in the Race Your House race. We finished second boat for boat in our class, beating a lot of bigger more modern designs. We kicked ass.

37764707772_873fa07b21_b.jpgBrigadoon race 1 by robert perry, on Flickr

37764589482_a762654445_b.jpgBaba 40 ph by robert perry, on Flickr

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That boat could last me the rest of my life.  At the UW many years ago one of my profs had a CT37 pilothouse, one of the few I'd seen.  He also had nothing but good things to say about it.  But, the Panda line really appealed to me.

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Dave;

Baba, Panda, Tashiba, all the same boat and a better quality build than the Tayana. But you pay a premium for them and they are rare. I think you could find a Tayana 37 PH if you looked at a reasonable price.

37087101624_276aa0fb28_h.jpgTy 37 ph by robert perry, on Flickr

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there was a pilot house version of a CT 41 ketch in Kirkland many years ago (early 80's anyway).  Dragon, maybe it was called.  Is that a version of one of your designs Bob ?  not well built, but lots of pretty teak inside.

 

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Je:

Nope, not mine. Hard to say who designed the CT 41 with all its iterations. Bill Garden was sure it was Bill Hardin's son. So with the Garden/Hardin similarity it was very common to see Bill Garden listed as the designer of the CT41 and all its cousins.

Not too well built and by now I would suspect a bit of rot may have set in throughout the deck structure.

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There was a Tayana 37 pilothouse that used to fart around in the Case Inlet a few years ago. My in-laws had a house on a little island there and I'd see it now and then. I remember rowing up to it when it was anchored off Harstene Island once and really admiring it.

On the subject of pilothouses that don't work.... I'm a big fan of the Pacific Seacraft 31.  However, slapping a house on top of that boat and calling it a 32 does NOT work, IMHO.

1994-Pacific-Seacraft-32-Pilothouse_3105

As an aside, Rawson 32 pilothouses are awfully popular in the PNW. I've only seen one, ever down here and it did look like a stout, comfy boat, but...slo-o-o-ow?

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We're going to look at a Cooper 353.  Any thoughts on Saildrives?

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I prefer a shaft drive, but my Volvo saildrive lives on with careful maintenance each year.

Try to avoid old Yanmar sail drives.

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Good to know.  The Cooper has a Volvo.  Thanks.

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Look for a North Sea 34. Built in Vancouver off a European design (Colvic Victor 34). They only built around 25 back in the late 70's/early 80's. 6'3 head room, true pilothouse, long cord fin keel, lightweight at 13,400. IOR sail plan with tiny main and big jib.

Here's mine with a recently added inner stay for making it a cutter rig.

 

 

231-3.jpg

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That looks like a very nice one.  I thought I saw one for sale a while ago but was probably mistaken.  Since then I'd completely forgot about them.  We like to walk the docks at the Cap Sante marina so I'll keep any eye out for it next time we do some boat looking.  Does it sail pretty well?  Looks like it would.

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Saildrive zincs- annually unless you have a hot marina.

Keep the leg painted with a good epoxy primer then copper free antifouling.

Change the rubber diaphragm - sometimes. Many of them are 15 years old and still going strong. You don't have to the pull an engine to change them, just the upper part of the drive where it bolts to the engine.

I'm not saying they are trouble free, but they aren't a deal breaker in most cases.

Good how to article here:

https://maxiowners.net/technical/engine/saildrive-gaiter-replacement/

 

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On 10/19/2017 at 11:33 AM, Alan H said:


As an aside, Rawson 32 pilothouses are awfully popular in the PNW. I've only seen one, ever down here and it did look like a stout, comfy boat, but...slo-o-o-ow?

 

As a Rawson owner I won't praise their sailing characteristics as being great (better than a Gulf) but all of the boats in this thread are SLOW!  Some a little better than others but not by much.  No replacement for LWL.  Last summer I shadowed a Catalina 40 downwind over the course of a 12 mile run.  Back at the dock her owner was real proud of beating me by about 5 minutes... yeah, um I mean yeah your boat is so much faster than mine;)  The Rawson does a pretty good job at keeping up with any of the bleach bottle fleet and will tick off 100-120 mile days without any special effort.  But overall most of the boats pictured in this thread will likely sail better in nearly all respects compared to  1959 Bill Garden design with concrete and iron for ballast, and a deck 1.5 inches thick.  If Gulfs and even Pacific Seacrafts are options I wouldn't rule out Rawsons.  Granted this was a newb created thread but for $40k or less there are a lot of $80k or more boats pictured... 

There is a Cooper at my dock owned by a very fastidious dude.  Looks like a nice boat.  Personally I have always like the Corbin 39 but those sell north of the OP preferred price.

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1 hour ago, sailak said:

but all of the boats in this thread are SLOW!

You see what you want to see.

Rawson 30's are a special kind of slow. I remember racing against them back in the early '60's.

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2 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

You see what you want to see.

Rawson 30's are a special kind of slow. I remember racing against them back in the early '60's.

Have they finished yet?

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Thanks for the saildrive info and article, Zonker.

My brother had a Rawson 30 many years ago that we enjoyed sailing.  While it's a completely different boat than the 30, it seemed well made.

We'll see how the upcoming Cooper looks that we're going to check out.

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4 hours ago, Bob Perry said:

You see what you want to see.

Rawson 30's are a special kind of slow. I remember racing against them back in the early '60's.

I wouldn't argue with that!  I wouldn't ever consider any sort of a bouy race as the tacking performance is pretty dismal, but improves significantly with the addition of diesel.   I didn't consider a  less than $40k pilot house thread would include racing, but hey why not?  In Seward the Island Packet crowd was talking about starting their own racing class...  pretty funny.

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Sailak:

An IP racing class is not so stupid. Funny? yes. But you stand the best chance of learning how to get the most out of your boat wit the least effort if you race. I would encourage it. I've raced El Toro's and enjoyed it. I encourage everyone to enter some informal races. Quickest way to learn to sail.

We raced the FD 35 PH model and came second boat for boat in class. Now that was a hoot! I think Donn, the owner, would tell you he learned a lot about the boats capabilities that day.

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Our racing covers Wednesday night buoy races and Saturday distance races. We do it for the fun of it after 25 years of racing more competitive boats. I am slowly rigging the boat the way I want so that I can take a slow boat and go a bit faster. We sail to the layline and tack or gybe. I try and nail my starts cuz that's still fun to do, even in a slow boat. With roller furling and cutter rig we roll the #1 halfway up for the tacks and it goes through smoothly. We have ab Asym in a sock that is easily managed.

Lots of little tweaks still to do.

 

A pilothouse in the NW just makes sense for us. Plus I enjoy eating my dinner at anchor and watching the world go by.

 

WL

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Trust me I have nothing against racing slow boats!!!  Certainly not stupid, or dumb, or anything like that... but the upwind leg is going to be.... well interesting!  If I was organizing it I would make sure it was reaching only, maybe a close reach, maybe a downwind finish.   If they get off the ground I would probably sign up.   Is there such a thing anywhere?   Getting the most from a boat/design is certainly one of the marks of a good sailor.  I sail around with tell tales affixed to my headsails and main, use outhaul, vang and change my genoa car positions for each tack, tune the rig.  Clean bottom is absolutely critical.   On a Rawson 30... yep. Keeping up with bleach bottles that do none of those things, generally not a problem.   Now what was stupid is when I tried to race my old O'Day 25 keel/center-boarder.  Got totally wiped out on the upwind leg.  All other points of sail were great but going up against Cals and Santanas with a vaguely foil shaped piece of iron or lead was a non-starter for that boat no matter how well it was sailed.  I had a decent set of sails for that boat too.  

 

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There have been plenty of races set up for multihulls with minimal upwind sailing required. 

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Looking forward to your review of the Cooper, Dave.

I saw these listed in your budget range.

This Calkins is really pretty, I thought. Has been kept up. https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rch/bod/d/1982-calkins-pilothouse-sloop/6343379250.html

I never heard of this model before, the Newport 33PH. Gary Mull. It might only be a DS. Same builder as the Gulf 32 ? http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/33-Newport-pilothouse-sloop_30481536

http://www.thunderbirdmarine.com/boat-info.php?ID=3764

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3289

Gulf 32 http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1265

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Thanks for the links, Norse Horse.  While the Calkins is an interesting boat, I'm not ready for a wood boat.  My brother has a 30 ft Bolger cat yawl that was designed and built for him about 27 years ago.  It's been pretty reasonable for upkeep but I'd really like to minimize that kind of maintenance at the moment.

I'd forgotten about the Newport 33 pilothouse.  With a raised saloon, it looks airy.  I do like Gary Mull designs.  Possibly an autopilot remote could work from the cabin.  I saw an ad for the 39 foot version of this boat for sale a year or two ago in California.  I think it started out at $110K and was working it's way down past $80K by the time I stopped tracking it.  Not too many were made from what I understand.  I'll have to do some research on the 33.

I've always liked the look of the Gulf 32 but hear varying reports on its sailing abilities.  I talked to an owner about 10 yrs ago that sold his Westsail 42 to a young couple in Alaska provided he'd accompany them on their trip with the boat back to Alaska.  His replacement boat was a Gulf 32.  He said on one stretch, they got into the roughest water he's seen and the Gulf seemed to handle it much better than the Westsail.  I guess that doesn't mean it sails well, though, since they were probably motoring.  Other articles have indicated how when rough, it can punch through the chop sailing where lighter boats slow down.  I guess that doesn't help with the light winds around here, though.

I looked at the Cooper 353 yesterday.  I didn't particularly care for it.  Probably more a case of this particular one.  It seemed too dark inside due to the dark woods, dark fabrics and small ports down below. I had the same feeling when going on an older Gulf 32 pilothouse a month ago. I wonder about spending time down there with our typical gray winter weather.  The lower edge of the forward facing windows were pretty high.  I don't think I'd be able to see anything low in front of the boat for maybe a mile out.  Cracks on the plexiglass side windows.  It also seemed to have a lot of freeboard and with my wife's knees, we broke out a ladder for her.   I wonder about docking in a crosswind with the freeboard and pilothouse height plus just the aesthetics.  It does make for a reasonably large interior.  I liked a raised cockpit platform behind the wheel to allow seeing over the pilothouse.  Unfortunately, the cockpit canvas was too low so I couldn't stand up without hitting my head.  I won't cross it off my list just yet, though.

 

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Hey Bob Perry, what's the height of the V40 PH from keel to cabin top for transporting purposes? 

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50 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Thanks for the links, Norse Horse.  While the Calkins is an interesting boat, I'm not ready for a wood boat.  My brother has a 30 ft Bolger cat yawl that was designed and built for him about 27 years ago.  It's been pretty reasonable for upkeep but I'd really like to minimize that kind of maintenance at the moment.

I'd forgotten about the Newport 33 pilothouse.  With a raised saloon, it looks airy.  I do like Gary Mull designs.  Possibly an autopilot remote could work from the cabin.  I saw an ad for the 39 foot version of this boat for sale a year or two ago in California.  I think it started out at $110K and was working it's way down past $80K by the time I stopped tracking it.  Not too many were made from what I understand.  I'll have to do some research on the 33.

I've always liked the look of the Gulf 32 but hear varying reports on its sailing abilities.  I talked to an owner about 10 yrs ago that sold his Westsail 42 to a young couple in Alaska provided he'd accompany them on their trip with the boat back to Alaska.  His replacement boat was a Gulf 32.  He said on one stretch, they got into the roughest water he's seen and the Gulf seemed to handle it much better than the Westsail.  I guess that doesn't mean it sails well, though, since they were probably motoring.  Other articles have indicated how when rough, it can punch through the chop sailing where lighter boats slow down.  I guess that doesn't help with the light winds around here, though.

I looked at the Cooper 353 yesterday.  I didn't particularly care for it.  Probably more a case of this particular one.  It seemed too dark inside due to the dark woods, dark fabrics and small ports down below. I had the same feeling when going on an older Gulf 32 pilothouse a month ago. I wonder about spending time down there with our typical gray winter weather.  The lower edge of the forward facing windows were pretty high.  I don't think I'd be able to see anything low in front of the boat for maybe a mile out.  Cracks on the plexiglass side windows.  It also seemed to have a lot of freeboard and with my wife's knees, we broke out a ladder for her.   I wonder about docking in a crosswind with the freeboard and pilothouse height plus just the aesthetics.  It does make for a reasonably large interior.  I liked a raised cockpit platform behind the wheel to allow seeing over the pilothouse.  Unfortunately, the cockpit canvas was too low so I couldn't stand up without hitting my head.  I won't cross it off my list just yet, though.

 

The Cooper 42 is dark inside as well. The headliner has a pin hole pattern material that is perforated and sometimes that does not age well. The 42 does feature a bath, haha. The windows might be tough to replace and require custom units. My friend considered double glaze custom units in that case. If the ports are old, larger ones could be used for replacement.

This Bill Garden Truant might be a consideration. New engine, diesel heat, up by Nanaimo...https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/boa/d/truant-33-pilot-house-sailboat/6353751222.html

Cheers

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Once upon a time someone told me that at least some of the  Cooper pilothouses were built by Bayliner. Or maybe I saw that on a forum somewhere.

Regarding the Rawson... yeah, you'll not spend nearly the $$ for a Rawson 30 PH that you will for a Pacific Seacraft. If 90% of your sailing is in a straight line for long periods of time, then that sounds good to me.

 

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I find the Truants/Saturna's interesting.  My favorite one was the 37 but that recently sold.  I don't see too many production boats with rounded transoms.  I wanted to sell my 20 ft fishing boat first, which I did a couple of weeks ago, plus I wasn't sure if I wanted to go that large when it was for sale.

My understanding is that Bayliner bought the molds from Cooper and produced them under their Bayliner US label.

Yes, this Cooper had the white perforated headliner, too.

We'd do a fair amount of tacking in our local waters so I keep shying away from full keels.  I may have to compromise for a pilothouse.

1981-truant-370-pilothouse--1.jpg

Truant Transom.jpg

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The Coopers I saw or sailed on,  (35 and 50), many, many years ago, we're, umm marginal.  They'd do the job but...   Ditto for the Newports.  The 30 and 41 had plastic thru hulls and I don't mean Marelon, I mean, like, cheap plastic!  The Truants are intriguing but I've never been aboard one.

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39 minutes ago, Veeger said:

The Coopers I saw or sailed on,  (35 and 50), many, many years ago, we're, umm marginal.  They'd do the job but...   Ditto for the Newports.  The 30 and 41 had plastic thru hulls and I don't mean Marelon, I mean, like, cheap plastic!  The Truants are intriguing but I've never been aboard one.

With that high bulwark and strong sheer, I don't think the sightlines from the PH are very good.

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11 hours ago, Ishmael said:

With that high bulwark and strong sheer, I don't think the sightlines from the PH are very good.

Probably true, I've seen VERY few so called pilothouse sailboats with more than minimal to downright marginal views forward.  A decent dodger is usually better but, we're now perilously close to drifting towards that other thread...

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4 minutes ago, Crash said:

Stole this from the Craigslist not mocking thread.  If you're not getting one of Bob's PH designs, that actually sail well, and are thinking coopers or rawsons, etc that don't...As you'll be motoring most time anyway,  why not just do this?   

http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/29350678?trending/4

Cool boat!

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The Forest service vessel looks perfect to me.  Heck of a price.. You sure don't want to end up with a boat that doesn't sail or motor well.

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6 hours ago, Crash said:

Stole this from the Craigslist not mocking thread.  If you're not getting one of Bob's PH designs, that actually sail well, and are thinking coopers or rawsons, etc that don't...As you'll be motoring most time anyway,  why not just do this?   

http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/29350678?trending/4

Pardon my "French" but oh FUCK, yes.  I have friends in Port Townsend with a 40's Monk cruiser and I love that boat. I'm not a big powerboat guy, but gorgeous is just gorgeous no matter what.

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the fisheries guys must thought they had the world by the tail!  rather than working in a commercial/fishing style steel-everywhere boat they were working on a yacht!

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Thanks for the measurement info, Bob.  I'm still thinking about that V40PH with blisters I mentioned earlier and having it trucked up here.

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On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 7:15 AM, Veeger said:

Probably true, I've seen VERY few so called pilothouse sailboats with more than minimal to downright marginal views forward.  A decent dodger is usually better but, we're now perilously close to drifting towards that other thread...

Not a great shot and an old one from when I kept the hard dingy forward of the mast in my first year with the boat. But the visibility forward in my pilothouse in quite good. Granted, at 6'4" I have great visibility everywhere I sit. ;)

Even the salon benches are elevated up so that my head almost hits the ceiling and everyone can see quite well from inside.

 

WL

 

221.3.jpg

Edited by White Lightnin'
add pic

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Sure is a good looking interior and view on your North Sea 34.  Have you tried sailing from inside and if so, any thoughts on it?

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How about Cascade boats?  I've read they're very strongly built.  Maybe somewhat narrower with less interior volume but with fin keels, they could be reasonably fast. Sounds like many have made ocean crossings.  My preference would be for a factory completed boat but some owners can finish off boats very nicely.  Has anyone heard of problems or negative traits?

 

Cascade 36 Pilothouse.jpg

Cascade 36.jpg

Cascade 36 Sailing.jpg

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On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 5:19 PM, Dave J said:

Sure is a good looking interior and view on your North Sea 34.  Have you tried sailing from inside and if so, any thoughts on it?

Actually I have. With the cabin roof hatch (24X24) I can see the main and even with the cutter rig I can still see both sets of telltales forward. I have not tried to do it for extended periods, but while making coffee or lunch it works very well.

I was planning on doing RTC next weekend but hernia surgery has scrapped my sailing plans for a month or so. I have been slowly (too slowly at times) getting the boat dialed in for distance racing. Not quite finished but close enough that RTC would have been a good test.

The boat seems to really like being cracked off of close hauled just a bit and tracks very well there. Close hauled she is a finicky as all get out and really requires your full attention. The close hauled groove is very small and the hydraulic steering has a few seconds delay, so you have to anticipate the changes.

Right now it has hydraulic steering at both helms. The winter plan is to pull the cockpit helm and put in the emergency tiller access and sail with a tiller before putting in the cable/chain pedestal. The hydraulic steering is a bit of a "dead stick" feel with no feedback from pressure on the rudder. I am not a fan of that.

 

WL

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This falls under the category that I am always lecturing my kids on

Just because you can, doesn't  mean you should!

 

WL

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I read something about Lyle Hess, when much younger, being anchored out on a very small boat as a large yacht slowly came by.  He overheard a man, dressed in a suit , looking down at the small boat say something to the effect that he'd rather be on that little boat than on the yacht.  A pocket cruiser could be a fun thing to explore shallow water around the sound.

On a little larger scale, I've heard about Nautilus 36 pilothouse sailboats being built on a C&C 37 hull.   They look pretty nice and must sail well.  This one is for sale for $30K in Wisconsin.  There are more for sale.  Thoughts?

 

Nautilus 36.jpg

Nautilus 36 Underbody.jpg

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On 10/19/2017 at 10:23 AM, Bob Perry said:

Dave:

No, not sure where it is. I do remember the boat. A taiwanese owner just bought TOUCAN, a local boat, and sailed it back to Taiwan. He has nothing but praise for the boat after a demanding, heavy air passage. They are fabulous boats,,,,until you want to back up. Bow thruster recommended.  The PH version is one of my best designs. Great layout.

 

There are PH Tayana 37's around. A PH Baba 35 would suit you just fine as would a Tashiba 36 PH but they are hard to find.

37796591031_45d2d586a8_b.jpgBrigadoon 2 by robert perry, on Flickr

Tricky Pig and I raced with Donn and Keri in the Race Your House race. We finished second boat for boat in our class, beating a lot of bigger more modern designs. We kicked ass.

37764707772_873fa07b21_b.jpgBrigadoon race 1 by robert perry, on Flickr

37764589482_a762654445_b.jpgBaba 40 ph by robert perry, on Flickr

You are welcome to see Brigadoon in Port Townsend this winter.

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That would be great!   My wife was just saying we should look at some pilothouse boats and narrow them down.  The downside to looking at Brigadoon is that any boat after that probably wouldn't cut it.  But, I'll take the risk...  Thanks.

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Reflex Sailor, do you mean any roller furling main or just this type external to the mast?  I suppose some area is lost due to no battens and the shape probably isn't the greatest.  The quickness and simplicity of roller furling is appealing, though.

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8 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Reflex Sailor, do you mean any roller furling main or just this type external to the mast?  I suppose some area is lost due to no battens and the shape probably isn't the greatest.  The quickness and simplicity of roller furling is appealing, though.

Hideous flow behind the mast with those things, they look like speed disruptors.

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If I had to have vertical furling main, I'd only ever go in mast, not an external furler.  But I'd get rid that as soon as I could in favour of stackpack, lazy jacks and full battens (different thread).

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That does sound like a good way to go.  Even though most pilothouses are cruising boats, it still fun to get the most performance you can.

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