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kawalski

Which Smock to buy

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I'm in need of some new offshore gear. Doing Hobart race and some other stuff.

I'm going to be on a wet boat so I'm looking at getting a smock with a drysuit seal.

The option I am torn between are 

1. Zhip Isotak 2 Reziseal https://www.zhik.com/isotak-2-reziseal-smock.html

2. Musto MPX Race Lite Smock https://www.musto.com.au/collections/sailing-jackets-smocks/products/mpx-gore-tex-race-lite-dry-smock-black

3. Gill OC1 Smockhttps://www.gillmarine.com/au/activity/ocean/oc-racer-smock.html

4. Helly Hansen Aegir Smock https://www.hellyhansen.com/en_ie/aegir-race-smock-33870

 

Now I'm torn between the first 2 options with no collar and the 2nd 2 with collar. My feeling being having the collar would be more restrictive. But would the added warmth/protection of it outweigh that? Or would I be just as good without collar and have a hat/gaiter for when it gets cold?

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If you're gonna be doing a hobart. Go for the one with a collar. 

 

Stuff like pac-cup/tpac you're fine without but for fastnet/hobart/middle sea race go for something with a proper collar.

 

You won't realize how much you missed it until you have it.

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Kind of depends somewhat on what your primary position on the boat will be.

Legs out hiking or foredeck you'd be better off with no collar.

Legs in trimming main or driving the collar is nice.

Either way by the time you get to Hobart your going to be wet and smelly.

I used a hooded smock over a 2 piece drysuit with seals and was still asked to wait outside (as was the rest of the crew) while the owner checked us in at the at the hotel.

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How fast is your boat? Are you spending 3 hours sitting on the rail or grinding the whole time?

If no collar - I'd be thinking of some sort of neoprene diving hood or similar -- but if you're from Ireland, maybe you're tougher than us and like being doused in cold water for four days.

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8 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

How fast is your boat? Are you spending 3 hours sitting on the rail or grinding the whole time?

If no collar - I'd be thinking of some sort of neoprene diving hood or similar -- but if you're from Ireland, maybe you're tougher than us and like being doused in cold water for four days.

Fast. Fast and wet. I presume all crew are going to be having turns on the pedestal.

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I have a Musto HPX smock with collar and a HL Phoenix dry top with neck and wrist gaskets. HPX for the really heavy, cold stuff and the HL for the warmer trips but with lots of green water!

 

My 2c.

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11 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

here's a fast 60 from a year or so back.  I see hoods, :) and most are deployed.  This was off the NSW South coast in the middle of the day; it gets colder, wetter and windier.

 

SYHO15sg_04475.jpg

You make a pretty convincing argument!

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Look at Mustang Survival.  Love my new stuff from them.  Top quality Mil-spec gor-tex.   

Might be tough to find and it's pricey. Way better than the Musto stuff I've had. 

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If you can bring a 2nd lightweight jacket or top, I'd do that.  Spray top or jacket for light stuff, and heavy kit w/ big collar for night time 40 kts and driving rain.  Sitting on the rail in 40-50 kts in a rain storm without a hood physically hurts your face.  

On the grinder, you're going to bake.  But you could be in anything more than shorts and a t-shirt and you'll bake.  Such is life. 

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On 10/24/2017 at 7:01 PM, Sarcoma said:

If you're gonna be doing a hobart. Go for the one with a collar. 

 

Stuff like pac-cup/tpac you're fine without but for fastnet/hobart/middle sea race go for something with a proper collar.

 

You won't realize how much you missed it until you have it.

How many Hobarts and Fastnets have you done? 

 

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17 minutes ago, A-NU-START said:

How many Hobarts and Fastnets have you done? 

 

None, but I have sailed in conditions like what you could potentially find in those races. Again, I'm able to use my brain and recognize that 30 knots upwind in a big seaway is going to be far more pleasant with a hood and collar. 

  • Downvote 1

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4 hours ago, HerrrVorragend said:

Zhik will have a new line of kit out in time for the Sidney Hobart, including a smock with zip-off collar and hood:

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Latest-Zhik-Isotak-X-arriving-in-time-for-Rolex-Sydney-Hobart/158236

 

I have one of these and it's the real deal.  Nothing else like it on the market.  Dong Feng and Akzonoble teams are loving theirs.

 

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8 minutes ago, lamorak said:

I have one of these and it's the real deal.  Nothing else like it on the market.  Dong Feng and Akzonoble teams are loving theirs.

 

Is the weight comparable to HPX or is it lighter?

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3 hours ago, lamorak said:

 Dong Feng and Akzonoble teams are loving theirs.

 

'tis interesting to note that the VO guys seemed to have moved away somewhat from the no-hood latex neck smocks of last time round.

Or am I imagining things?

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10 hours ago, HerrrVorragend said:

Zhik will have a new line of kit out in time for the Sidney Hobart, including a smock with zip-off collar and hood:

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Latest-Zhik-Isotak-X-arriving-in-time-for-Rolex-Sydney-Hobart/158236

 

While that looks amazing I don't think I can stretch to $1500 for a smock.

I can pick up the HH Aegir or Zhik Reziseal for $550ish.

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1 hour ago, duncan (the other one) said:

'tis interesting to note that the VO guys seemed to have moved away somewhat from the no-hood latex neck smocks of last time round.

Or am I imagining things?

 

The zhik ones have removable hoods (so far haven't seen it with the hood) and the musto teams (TTOP and Vestas) are still rolling with the no hood latex HPX smocks. 

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17 hours ago, Sarcoma said:

Is the weight comparable to HPX or is it lighter?

Lighter weight with 4X the durability 

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16 hours ago, Sarcoma said:

 

The zhik ones have removable hoods (so far haven't seen it with the hood) and the musto teams (TTOP and Vestas) are still rolling with the no hood latex HPX smocks. 

Here's what the hood looks like - http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Latest-Zhik-Isotak-X-arriving-in-time-for-Rolex-Sydney-Hobart/158236

You'll probably see the Volvo guys wearing theirs once they turn south...

 

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21 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

FMD.

$1500 is 50% off ?

Read it properly mate, buy the smock and get 50% off a pair of seaboots.

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It looks like fantastic gear for full on ocean racing. While not having worn the longer type ocean smock it just doesn't appeal to me. I feel it would be a bit of a mission to move about in.

And I like to be nimble like a tree frog.

I am leaning towards the Zhik Isotak II as without the collar I will get more use out of it with normal round the cans wet stuff and shorter coastal stuff like Sydney-Southport and Brisbane-Keppel

 

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37 minutes ago, kawalski said:

It looks like fantastic gear for full on ocean racing. While not having worn the longer type ocean smock it just doesn't appeal to me. I feel it would be a bit of a mission to move about in.

And I like to be nimble like a tree frog.

I am leaning towards the Zhik Isotak II as without the collar I will get more use out of it with normal round the cans wet stuff and shorter coastal stuff like Sydney-Southport and Brisbane-Keppel

 

Some suggestions

  • round the cans - use a dinghy smock.  I like my Rooster stretch one with fleece lining, except if its hot (but then I don't need a smock so much)
  • Sydney Southport -- you'll want a collar for the warmth.

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14 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

FMD.

$1500 is 50% off ?

Zhik rep says price point will be $999 once fully released.

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Zhik kit is absolutely awesome- second onlybto their customer service- 

everything I own of theirs is kick ass, the isotak 2 line is the best gear I’ve ever had, lightweight, durable, ergonomic, fully adjustable, well thought out gear- 

I’d have no issues dropping a grand on this smock because I trust it’ll work better than expected and if it somehow fails, the folks at zhik will make it right  

 

 

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8 hours ago, Sarcoma said:

Zhik rep says price point will be $999 once fully released.

That would be in the USA. In Australia the 'fully released' price point is $1499.00.

The Isotak 2 smock is great for the more active races but i find i needed another layer underneath when sitting on the rail getting wet for hours on end.

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20 minutes ago, angles said:

That would be in the USA. In Australia the 'fully released' price point is $1499.00.

The Isotak 2 smock is great for the more active races but i find i needed another layer underneath when sitting on the rail getting wet for hours on end.

Do you think the Isotak 2 would cut it offshore if i had thermals/soft shell underneath and gaiter/hat above?

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3 minutes ago, kawalski said:

Do you think the Isotak 2 would cut it offshore if i had thermals/soft shell underneath and gaiter/hat above?

There is two types of Isotak 2 smocks.

The Offshore Smock and the Reziseal Smock.

The Offshore one has a hood and collar. You would def. need these for the Hobart and the Southport.

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How about a smock with seals, nothing too heavyweight for the light/hot sections then a jacket with collar to go on over the top when you need it, you stay dry and have the flexibility to suit the conditions/job you are doing.

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16 hours ago, FromTheRail said:

How about a smock with seals, nothing too heavyweight for the light/hot sections then a jacket with collar to go on over the top when you need it, you stay dry and have the flexibility to suit the conditions/job you are doing.

Do not double up waterproof fabrics. You will sweat, get wet, and get cold

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22 hours ago, kawalski said:

Do you think the Isotak 2 would cut it offshore if i had thermals/soft shell underneath and gaiter/hat above?

Yes. I wore an Isotak 1 smock across the Atlantic in 2015 while racing. I'm a jack of all trades which usually means 'go forward and fix that big ass CF the last watch created'. My only issue with the Isotak 1 line was related to durability and some material issues that have all been fixed in the 2 range and Zhik took care of me in the 1 range. I have a Gill pair of Salopettes that I wish were Isotak as the latter is soooo much lighter.

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I have Musto MPX.  It cost a mint.  Once you get past that, it's worth every penny IMHO.  It breathes well,  and stands up for rhe wear of the textured gel coat deck in my boat.  I'm an active club/regional racer on the Great Lakes.  

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Compare apples to apples. A Zhik Isotak 2 offshore smock is $725. The Musto MPX Offshore Race Smock is $799.

The Zhik Isotak X at $999 compares directly with the Musto HPX Pro Series Smock at $1100.

Zhik are winning on cost and on the product. The VOR guys wouldn't ditch their trusty Musto HPX kit without a good reason.

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1 hour ago, samc99us said:

Compare apples to apples. A Zhik Isotak 2 offshore smock is $725. The Musto MPX Offshore Race Smock is $799.

The Zhik Isotak X at $999 compares directly with the Musto HPX Pro Series Smock at $1100.

Zhik are winning on cost and on the product. 

Agreed, but the prices vary across markets.

MPX and Isotak 2 are roughly on par. price-wise for Oz retail... but Musto can be picked up much cheaper either from the UK or by those with connections (like 30% or more cheaper).

HPX and that Zhik being discussed are both 2x that price point (~$AU1500 in Oz)

I stand by my statement that I can get a MPX smock for 30% that latter price.

They're level-pegging on cost - I have no idea of the quality, as I haven't worn either HPX or top of the line Zhik stuff.

1 hour ago, samc99us said:

The VOR guys wouldn't ditch their trusty Musto HPX kit without a good reason.

Its called marketing.  They wear what they're told.

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4 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

 

Its called marketing.  They wear what they're told.

+1  I've heard some horror stories about some of the gear they've had to wear. 

I saw some of the prototype Zhik kit this summer.  It looked well thought out and well made, and it's wearer was pleased, though we didn't have terribly inclement weather.

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11 hours ago, Sarcoma said:

Do not double up waterproof fabrics. You will sweat, get wet, and get cold

Can't be any worse than the old Line 7 PVC days.

I've done a couple of Hobarts doing the dinghy smock & jacket combo and found it worked really well. It gives you way more options while still keeping you dry. A dinghy smock rolls up into fuck all space so why not take one as well. Also helps to keep the green ones from going down your neck if you aren't wearing the hood on your jacket.

It's offshore racing, you are still going to sweat, get wet and get cold no matter what you wear.

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9 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Agreed, but the prices vary across markets.

MPX and Isotak 2 are roughly on par. price-wise for Oz retail... but Musto can be picked up much cheaper either from the UK or by those with connections (like 30% or more cheaper).

HPX and that Zhik being discussed are both 2x that price point (~$AU1500 in Oz)

I stand by my statement that I can get a MPX smock for 30% that latter price.

They're level-pegging on cost - I have no idea of the quality, as I haven't worn either HPX or top of the line Zhik stuff.

Its called marketing.  They wear what they're told.

Yes I know about marketing. Zhik kit can be had cheaper too for those with connections.

I'll say this about the MPX: It did fail on ~day 13 of the transatlantic crossing, still some 700nm to go. The only kit that didn't fail was my Isotak 1 smock (and the 2 is much better), the HPX drysuit (tops seam did fail but that was a user situation) and a Gill drysuit. If you are looking for kit that lasts more than 2 or 3 Hobarts, you are looking at higher end ocean gear is my main point, and use with care and caution for other events (i.e coastal racing only if the forecast is crap, otherwise bring the cheaper stuff to reduce wear and tear on the high end kit). I have a pair of Gill OS1 Salopettes whose fit is very large on me, but they held up find for the 2016 Newport-Bermuda race and I expect they will do just fine for 2 or 3 more races.

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What the fuck were you doing on a boat that you killed a smock in 13 days? Breakdancing in the cockpit? 

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If anyone wants a large HPX dry smock with the hood/collar removed I will let it go for $250 bucks. Bristol condition. Pm me

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Yeah, man up and go old school Line7.  (just kidding)  In the PNW back in the day that was the go to gear. Used to say if it can breathe out it can breath in.  Loving Slam gear here now but not sitting on the rail on the big water so much anymore.

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Really like where Mustang is going with their smock and other items.

Focus group one - it would have nice to have built in a hood and face guard on that, as well as a gasket neck. Personally not a fan of draw string closures. Dry is supposed to mean completely “dry.” Also, I don’t like the feeling of a string cutting into my neck. 

Colour is another one. Yes the murdered-out look is mean and technical, but I want to be seen, especially at night. A couple of badges of flashing don’t achieve that IMPO.

Hope they keep at it though. A good start...

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42 minutes ago, Next Level said:

So what's the consensus on MPX vs HPX for Hobart? Will MPX be enough or shall I invest in HPX?

I've decided on MPX. The dry smock and saloppettes. 

I think it will keep me as dry as HPX and I will get a lot more use out of it post Hobart.

It just may not survive as many miles as the HPX

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On 11/6/2017 at 9:59 AM, A-NU-START said:

What the fuck were you doing on a boat that you killed a smock in 13 days? Breakdancing in the cockpit? 

Owners MPX. We were sailing in  35kts minimum (regularly 40kts+ on the anemometer) for 7+ days straight. Following seas but steady 12-15 footers with breakers on top of that, flooded the aft cabin twice. Getting gear on in the middle of the night 10 days into an ocean crossing on a boat that is constantly moving for non pro sailors is tough on gear.

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