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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Jet14

Hard vs soft dinghy

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I have a small sailing gunkholer in the San Juans that is kept on a buoy.  We take a ferry to visit it and use the dinghy like a commuter car with a portable EPcarry motor.  We use a Minto dinghy kept in the water at a local restaurant dock.  Had to bottom paint it.  Not as stable as an inflatable but- any inflatable owners have a similar use case?  I like the stability of an inflatable but am concerned about beaching on rocks, swings in temp causing it to feel too tight in the day and then soft in the evenings, punctures, fowling over extended periods in the water etc.  Looking for opinions and suggestions.

Thanks, Joe

 

epcarry.jpg

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Do you tow it or leave it on the mooring when you sail the big boat?

I'd suggest a RIB but they are heavy and a big towing load.

Anything left in the water will accumulate growth - doesn't much matter what material it is.

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I've used both hard and soft dinghies as a full time cruiser. In your case I'd stick with the hard dinghy. It does what you want even if it's not as stable as an inflatable.  Add these if stability is your big worry:  https://www.ghboats.com/2017/06/the-new-dinghy-dogs/  

#1 - Nesting, 2 piece 11' rowboat. Made of 1/4" ply, stitch and glue. Rowed like a dream. Tough. Easy to assemble on the foredeck (my own design). Eventually after many  years use we got an outboard for longer dinghy excursions. Still it was a displacement hull so a 3.5 HP would sink the transom almost at full throttle. Full speed was around 5 knots.

#2 - Fast planing 10' hard dinghy (another of my own designs). 15 HP motor, hung on a stern arch. Very roomy. Fast as hell, hard on the mothership's topsides until I got a better fender. Tough on beaches. Stable enough that I could stand in the stern and piss off the transom and not worry about flipping it. i.e. almost as stable as a big inflatable

#3 - 10' RIB, 15 HP motor, hung on stern arch. Not as roomy. Fast. Stable. Kept getting tiny punctures. Heavier than #2. Pain to get barnacles off and had to use special costly inflatable bottom paint (o.k. not really)

 

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OP: You don't complain about your current tender's speed, payload capacity or banging into topsides (which to me are major benefits of inflatables & RIBs), and you express concern about beaching on rocks, bottom fouling, and losing air. Yes, yes, yes...those are real issues. I'm not a PNW guy, but it sounds like you've already got what works for you. In the Bahamas and Caribbean, we want the ability to take the dinghy out to a reef 2-3 miles away for a little snorkeling, then bounce down to town 3-4 miles the other way, buy some limes and get back to the boat for lunch. Few hard dinghies can do that.

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2 hours ago, sugarbird said:

OP: You don't complain about your current tender's speed, payload capacity or banging into topsides (which to me are major benefits of inflatables & RIBs), and you express concern about beaching on rocks, bottom fouling, and losing air. Yes, yes, yes...those are real issues. I'm not a PNW guy, but it sounds like you've already got what works for you. In the Bahamas and Caribbean, we want the ability to take the dinghy out to a reef 2-3 miles away for a little snorkeling, then bounce down to town 3-4 miles the other way, buy some limes and get back to the boat for lunch. Few hard dinghies can do that.

I hear you, but for exkursions farter than a mile, instead of rowing, i take the "big" boat and anchor near/on/off that reef.

 

but i am a die hard rower, since years before i got into sailing. I am also a lover of small, responsive and simple sailboats. The only reason I "upgraded" from a 32' to a 35'' cruiser was it allows a hard dink stowed on deck. ;-D

My current boat came with an 8' RIB that I quickly 'converted to a RIP) aka ( sold it) with a 15 hp.

They have their advantages, well known, and disadvantages, also well known, but for me they are just so poor in the way of design.

An inflatable is so freaking inefficient as design. Bob Perry, help me on this one. 

When  you need a 15 horse to move  some 200 kg/450lbs of freight/crew it's terribly inefficient. It also smells gas and exhaust and certainly makes about the worst possible carbon footprint for a dinghy. For a hard dinghy/skiff those 15 hp would be sufficient for a 20-25' boat.

 

 

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Yes, I tow it everywhere.  I do like the Minto and we deal with the tenderness pretty well but we'd just like more stability.  Other thing is that we end up making multiple trips to transport stuff and people.  I am thinking a bigger version of the same thing would work for us.  Anything is too big for our deck anyway.

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I'm personally partial to hard dinghies, they last longer than inflatables and aren't prone to deflation. They are also more boat shaped. That being said, it's hard to beat a rib for practicality. 

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The Minto is pretty unstable as far as hard dinghies go. It has a very round hull shape.  I used one for a while, but am happier with my Gig Harbor Ultralite which rows and tows beautifully and has a wider waterline beam that makes it more stable.  They also go for about half of what a Minto does on Seattle Craigslist. 

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I detest inflatables.  They're only good with a motor so no sailing or rowing.  I swore I'd never have another one.  Buuuutttt, it looks like I will.  I bought an 8' little fiberglass hard dinghy to hang off the stern on davits.  Virtually everyone says "What a cute dinghy!" when they walk by--but I've fired it.  Just haven't replaced it yet.  It holds 1 1/2 people whereupon it then rows poorly.  Great for one person but I don't single hand very often.  I'm limited to just less than 10' overall length to be able to hoist it between my hulls (mothership is a catamaran) and weight is always an issue.  My awl grip paint job doesn't really like a hard dinghy either.  The new aluminum RIBs of 9' or so weigh less, carry more and, well, they're just better for utility.  I think I'll get a Torqueedo for it though.

Still, I'd prefer something stable and that looks like a boat... woe is me!  JET14, it's the Law of Compromises in play when you talk dinghies and you will NOT achieve all your goals.....

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Veeger: just going up a foot makes a big difference in carrying capacity since the extra length is in the beamiest part of the boat.  I had the same design in 8' and 9', and the 8' one was great with one, miserable with 2, and unsafe with 3.  The 9' one is great with 1, good with 2, slow but safe with 3.  It's a huge difference.

I owned a few sub-8' hard dinghies to try and keep as much space free on the foredeck as possible, but the 9' one isn't that much worse (carrying either on the foredeck is a pain) and is so much nicer to use.

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I absolutely love my RIB. It is an Avon 340 - about 11 feet long - that is incredibly stable and does about 17-18 knots with my 15 HP outboard. It can haul an incredible load if needed and go a long way. My record is 34 miles round trip. It has never got a puncture in the rubber, but I did patch the fiberglass near the bow once where it was worn from being dragged up on the beach. I can tow kids on a tube on plane or tow the mothership if needed. It stays in the water March-November every year and yes, you have to use bottom paint.

Only downsides is it will not fit on the boat and it is a lot of drag to tow. So far it has been worth it, but YMMV. Oh.......almost forgot, it sucks to row it.

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1 hour ago, Alex W said:

Veeger: just going up a foot makes a big difference in carrying capacity since the extra length is in the beamiest part of the boat.  I had the same design in 8' and 9', and the 8' one was great with one, miserable with 2, and unsafe with 3.  The 9' one is great with 1, good with 2, slow but safe with 3.  It's a huge difference.

I owned a few sub-8' hard dinghies to try and keep as much space free on the foredeck as possible, but the 9' one isn't that much worse (carrying either on the foredeck is a pain) and is so much nicer to use.

This. I love my 10' Walker Bay RIB. Me, my wife, three kids, and the dog fit great and it's totally stable. The 8'er version of the same boat is a totally different animal in the worst possible way. 

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10 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

Zonker 

 

how much did Option 2 weigh?

Should be able to build something pretty  rugged under 100 lbs. Under 75 is possible if handled delicately. 

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6 hours ago, Alex W said:

The Minto is pretty unstable as far as hard dinghies go. It has a very round hull shape.  I used one for a while, but am happier with my Gig Harbor Ultralite which rows and tows beautifully and has a wider waterline beam that makes it more stable.  They also go for about half of what a Minto does on Seattle Craigslist. 

But the shape makes it a great rowboat, especially with decent oars.

A set of inflatable tubes like the ones on the Walker Bays would help stability if it was loaded up, or used a small outboard.

CA65A9E6-CFBA-41D8-8114-F9AFC1B59BE8.thumb.jpeg.11666fddfb126b99d6f868d716873a2b.jpeg

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9 hours ago, SpittingSpume said:

I hear you, but for exkursions farter than a mile, instead of rowing, i take the "big" boat and anchor near/on/off that reef.

 

but i am a die hard rower, since years before i got into sailing. I am also a lover of small, responsive and simple sailboats. The only reason I "upgraded" from a 32' to a 35'' cruiser was it allows a hard dink stowed on deck. ;-D

My current boat came with an 8' RIB that I quickly 'converted to a RIP) aka ( sold it) with a 15 hp.

They have their advantages, well known, and disadvantages, also well known, but for me they are just so poor in the way of design.

An inflatable is so freaking inefficient as design. Bob Perry, help me on this one. 

When  you need a 15 horse to move  some 200 kg/450lbs of freight/crew it's terribly inefficient. It also smells gas and exhaust and certainly makes about the worst possible carbon footprint for a dinghy. For a hard dinghy/skiff those 15 hp would be sufficient for a 20-25' boat.

 

 

 

You don't need 15hp to power anything. 8hp will give plenty of power to move a dinghy up to 12 ft size.

The most practical dinghy is a RIB which combines the best of both worlds and is always faster than any roll up or air floor.

 

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I dislike outboards and I like to row. A nesting dinghy like a PT11 nests small enough to fit under the boom of my 38' kruzer and a set of narrow 7.5' spoons will go upwind in chop with a heavy load with moderate effort.  I've not tried it off a beach with shore-break, but it surfs well. 

35990498633_225d5b9f34.jpg

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I simply row a tiny inflatable soft-bottom dinghy. What else am I going to do with my time? I completely waste those 5 minutes a day and stay in shape. But I only need to haul the sexy wifey and a few supplies. Have a 2.5hp outboard if I get lazy. But then, being a proper cruiser, I don't zip ashore twenty times a day for the dog, Starbucks, kids, internet, kids, dog, internet, kids, wine, dog. Now that I have the wifey there is no need to row a 'date' back in at dawn either...so far.

A hard dinghy will not store below. My rigid belief system will not allow for one shipped as deck cargo, or towed for more than a few miles. Davits, heh, no.

It's quiet, clean, cheap. I don't disturb anyone with 15hp of wake or noise. But that is just my contrary odd-ball minimalist opinion.

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I can't make an inflatable last longer than 4 years with out major re-gluing somewhere. Just ripping the transom off the back of a 2 year old hyplon mercuy last week.  Maybe the glue dosen't like Mexico heat?

20 hours from finishing a PT-11. If sailing and rowing it is as pleasant as building it, I think I'll be happy.

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Later, at the beach bash, he'll be yakking about how much he loves cruising ... the quiet, the solitude, ... hell, just being outside in the sun.

image.png.da00dad91acf61f9a380f8cafa0ed55e.png

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5 hours ago, rustylaru said:

I can't make an inflatable last longer than 4 years with out major re-gluing somewhere. Just ripping the transom off the back of a 2 year old hyplon mercuy last week.  Maybe the glue dosen't like Mexico heat?

20 hours from finishing a PT-11. If sailing and rowing it is as pleasant as building it, I think I'll be happy.

My Avon is 15 years old now and seems good for plenty more. I had a Bombard that was constantly falling apart and popping leaks before, so this is a huge improvement.

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7 hours ago, savoir said:

 

You don't need 15hp to power anything. 8hp will give plenty of power to move a dinghy up to 12 ft size.

The most practical dinghy is a RIB which combines the best of both worlds and is always faster than any roll up or air floor.

 

If I didn't care about planing speeds, I wouldn't even need 8 HP. A cheap and light old 3 hp 2-stroke will move a dinghy around just fine at 4-5 knots. I had a 2.5 HP Honda for years that moved various dinghies just fine. I wouldn't get another one though, the lawnmower sound sucked compared to a water cooled engine.

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19 hours ago, sugarbird said:

In the Bahamas and Caribbean, we want the ability to take the dinghy out to a reef 2-3 miles away for a little snorkeling, then bounce down to town 3-4 miles the other way, buy some limes and get back to the boat for lunch. Few hard dinghies can do that.

I did exactly that for years with an 11 Whaler. The tiller version, so only rated for 10 hp. I put a 15. When that died, I put a 25. The hull is rated for that much power if you have a steering wheel to hang on.

It was fine with 2 people, marginal with 3, using the 15 hp. The 25 was the right engine. You could load it until it was almost awash and still plane.

sidevieww.jpg

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Another factor (for me, anyway) is volume.  An 8' inflatable has far less internal volume than an 8' hard boat because the tubes take up all of the room.

A 9' Avon Redcrest is actually better than a 9' West Marine with a hard transom and tubes sticking 2' beyond the transom. It's lost length and volume.  I recently purchased a fiberglass 8' Howmar Hauler at a charity auction.  Rows quickly with minimal effort, absolutely flies with a 35lb. thrust electric trolling motor, tows without shipping a drop of water even in rough weather, and has enormous internal volume for transferring gear and provisions compared to a similar sized inflatable.

Sisterboat:  http://www.reefroof.com/RinkyDink.htm

The only trade-off (which is not insignificant), is that the Howmar isn't nearly as stable as an inflatable. The Howmar rows well even in a choppy anchorage but debarking via the stern ladder of a bouncing mothership is pretty sketchy.  I've discovered that boarding at the center gate of the mothership is much safer and more stable.  The Plastimo fender-ladder protects the topsides from the dinghy and allows easy egress.

One more thought on hard dinghy stability-  Some folks have mentioned tube stability kits. Another thing you can do, is ring the gunwhale with small fenders. They sell them in various sizes and colors to fit your application:  http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|2276155|2276169|2276170&id=67246

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Our cruising dinghy is a two man inflatable kayak. It takes 15 minutes to inflate and it paddles almost as well as a hard kayak. It is quite stable. When not in use, if folds up and drops into a lazarette.  I detest towing things or having them block vision on deck.

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As a nod to my advancing age, I've ringed my great-rowing, roundish-bottom FG 8'er with largish fenders mounted low enough so I can now stand in the dink to cast while fishing. This cost me around $40 for the used fenders rather than $375 for the new dinghy dogs. It's still slightly tender as the fenders aren't in the water but hardens up fast. Sold my 3.3, 2 stroke that I hadn't bothered to use in forever.

Horses for courses.

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10 hours ago, olaf hart said:

But the shape makes it a great rowboat, especially with decent oars.

The Minto does row nicely, but so do the more stable Gig Harbor designs.  It isn't hard to find both around the PNW, so try them both. If you ever see me around (my dinghy is bright orange and hard to miss) I'll be happy to let you take it for a test row. 

The hard chine Dyer Dhow Midget that I owned previously was perhaps even more stable but didn't tow that nicely. It was fun to sail. 

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When we were cruising full time (many years ago) we carried a 10' Novurania planing inflatable (not rib) with a 9 hp for diving and getting groceries, carrying water jugs and long trips; an 8' Sabot sailing dinghy for the kids; an 8' rowing dinghy (came with the boat) and a hard kayak (also the kids).  

The Sabot was used a bit, the kayak and rowing dinghy almost never and the inflatable every day we were not underway. The Novurania had very good puncture resistance but we saw several other brands (especially the PVC cloth ones) get damaged on rocky beaches or rough docks.  For local PNW use where you're not using the dinghy for >one mile trips your hard dinghy sounds like the answer. In Mexico almost everyone we met who had started with a hard dinghy wound up buying a planing inflatable because of the distances you want to cover without having to relocate the big boat. 

It helped that our boat was a trimaran so the dinghies lived in the nets between hulls while underway.

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My answer to the rubbing problem was 2" PVC reinforced suction hose wrapped around the rubrail.

rubrail.jpg?resize=336,239&ssl=1

That's not dirty. It's sunburned. It turns black and gooey in the sun. It's pretty cheap and easy to replace though. That one was replaced not long after the pic was taken. It would leave horrible black marks on a boat if rafted alongside in that condition. A new one doesn't leave marks and absorbs shocks well.

And for rubbing on rocky beaches:

keel-protect.jpg?resize=336,178&ssl=1

That's an extremely tough strip of vinyl or something. It's made for jetski's that routinely hit beaches. It has a pressure-activated cement that held on for years.

I sold the boat before finding out how much fun it is when it finally does wear out and must be removed. We have no dock at our boat ramp so that boat was driven onto the shore regularly. The gelcoat was gone and the fiberglass was going. It always made me wince until I got that thing.

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3 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I did exactly that for years with an 11 Whaler. The tiller version, so only rated for 10 hp. I put a 15. When that died, I put a 25. The hull is rated for that much power if you have a steering wheel to hang on.

It was fine with 2 people, marginal with 3, using the 15 hp. The 25 was the right engine. You could load it until it was almost awash and still plane.

sidevieww.jpg

I've seen lots of bigish MoBo's with 11' whalers on power cranes to the top deck - always thought it looked like the ideal choice for that situation.

A bit heavy to drag behind most of our sailboats though. :D

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7 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I've seen lots of bigish MoBo's with 11' whalers on power cranes to the top deck - always thought it looked like the ideal choice for that situation.

A bit heavy to drag behind most of our sailboats though. :D

Spring break decades ago I cruised 10 days in a 30'er with several friends, towing a 13.5 Whaler. In anchorage or port, it was great. We were very popular in Dry Tortugas riding out a cold front...peep would attempt to row (or have tiny motors) and blow out towards the reefs. We'd make a lap around the harbor rounding them all up and towing them ashore. Towing that whaler was a real big PITA, though.

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11 hours ago, Elegua said:

I dislike outboards and I like to row. A nesting dinghy like a PT11 nests small enough to fit under the boom of my 38' kruzer and a set of narrow 7.5' spoons will go upwind in chop with a heavy load with moderate effort.  I've not tried it off a beach with shore-break, but it surfs well. 

35990498633_225d5b9f34.jpg

I have owned a lot of dinks, both inflatable and hard sided.

The PT-11 Nesting dink from PT Watercraft I recently acquired is the best one ever.

She rows so well I have not bothered to try out the 2hp Honda on her.

And disassembled, each half is an easy single handed carry.

She is super easy to assemble and disassemble.

Just a GREAT all around dink.

http://ptwatercraft.com/ptwatercraft/PT11Home.html

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I just tow and tow and tow, and never stow(too big). This has been the best all around dinghy we've owned, now 20 years. When we get to wherever it is we're going, then we just row and row and row. It's a simple system that works for us. 

21910344375_c67bdc4a4a_h.jpg

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I like that ^^^ Cringle. I wish I could somehow get something like that below for open sea passages. Plenty of room below but no way thru the hatches.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Spring break decades ago I cruised 10 days in a 30'er with several friends, towing a 13.5 Whaler. In anchorage or port, it was great. We were very popular in Dry Tortugas riding out a cold front...peep would attempt to row (or have tiny motors) and blow out towards the reefs. We'd make a lap around the harbor rounding them all up and towing them ashore. Towing that whaler was a real big PITA, though.

I have a 13 foot Whaler, but have no intention of using it for a dinghy. Having it surf on a wave from astern and come at you is no fun.

I love the look of that nesting dinghy. I could see making one of them for a fun project :D

If I even need to take a dinghy offshore, this one looks decent and I can buy 2 in case one leaks B)

http://www.boatstogo.com/inflatable-boat-am365.asp

 

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Back here in Tassie we use the ubiquitous Purdon 10 glass dinghy, it’s an awesome tender, stable, rows well, tows well, good volume and fine for rocky beaches.

I also have a Tinker foldaway RIB dinghy, I treat it like gold. It is saved for offshore trips where we need to carry rather than tow. It’s not bad for rowing if you discard the supplied oars for decent 7’ ones.

http://www.tinkerowners.org.uk/p05.htm.sv_pre_deletion_____20120105

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Olaf,

What about that nesting dinghy you showed me that had that had that neat locking joint? Can you refresh my memory: make, size, experiences??

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17 minutes ago, Anomaly2 said:

Olaf,

What about that nesting dinghy you showed me that had that had that neat locking joint? Can you refresh my memory: make, size, experiences??

Swanson Snug 8’ folding dinghy , sold it with the old boat , probably a mistake

Rowed, folded and carried well.

I have some pics but they are all over the 1 meg limit

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5 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

I just tow and tow and tow, and never stow(too big). This has been the best all around dinghy we've owned, now 20 years. When we get to wherever it is we're going, then we just row and row and row. It's a simple system that works for us. 

21910344375_c67bdc4a4a_h.jpg

you know your boat has a great "row away factor"  when even your pups can't stop looking!

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11 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

If I didn't care about planing speeds, I wouldn't even need 8 HP. A cheap and light old 3 hp 2-stroke will move a dinghy around just fine at 4-5 knots. I had a 2.5 HP Honda for years that moved various dinghies just fine. I wouldn't get another one though, the lawnmower sound sucked compared to a water cooled engine.

 

Oh well FWIW my dinghy is a 10ft Walker Bay RIB and the outboard is a 4 hp Tohatsu. I get 9 knots which is fast enough. The whole dinghy + motor only weighs 200 lbs. If I was regularly carrying 4 people I would have to move up to 8 hp.

 

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If you carry 4 people in a 10' Walker Bay, you'll have to move down to a 2.5 hp. With that load, any more than 5 kts and you'll get spray over the bow in anything but glassy water. 

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I've seen lots of bigish MoBo's with 11' whalers on power cranes to the top deck - always thought it looked like the ideal choice for that situation.

A bit heavy to drag behind most of our sailboats though. :D

That one was dragged around the Bahamas behind a CSY 44 (barely noticed, maybe half a knot), an Express 37 (noticed a bit more and almost punched a hole in the boat with that fancy cleat on the bow), and an Island Piglet 30. The poor little piglet did struggle with it. Cost us about a knot.

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3 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Swanson Snug 8’ folding dinghy , sold it with the old boat , probably a mistake

Rowed, folded and carried well.

I have some pics but they are all over the 1 meg limit

Thanks (great pic). I think that joint is the best I've seen of any of the nesting/folding dinghies-- simple and effective.

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56 minutes ago, savoir said:

 

Oh well FWIW my dinghy is a 10ft Walker Bay RIB and the outboard is a 4 hp Tohatsu. I get 9 knots which is fast enough. The whole dinghy + motor only weighs 200 lbs. If I was regularly carrying 4 people I would have to move up to 8 hp.

 

I doubt the Walker Bay would plane with 4 people and 8 HP, so it would save you some money to just stick with 4 HP.

 

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We use an ancient Avon from the mid 80s with a 3.3hp outboard. The drink and the motor were given to us and work.  No need to change anything. 

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1 hour ago, Anomaly2 said:

Thanks (great pic). I think that joint is the best I've seen of any of the nesting/folding dinghies-- simple and effective.

There are more pics of the joint, but they are over the 1 meg limit for posting here.

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I'm struck by all the different use scenarios.  Some people like speed and others row.  Others want a small motor that can be easily stored and passed down to the dink like ours.    We don't want to make waves or noise at an anchorage and just want to get the dog back and forth and have access to the beach etc.  I'm  leaning towards something like a Gig Harbor 10 footer or the 10' Walker bay.  Light enough to drag above the tide-line and stable enough and enough carrying capacity for a small family and gear.   I think a hard-shell dink is easier to wrap my head around.

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10 hours ago, kimbottles said:

I have owned a lot of dinks, both inflatable and hard sided.

The PT-11 Nesting dink from PT Watercraft I recently acquired is the best one ever.

She rows so well I have not bothered to try out the 2hp Honda on her.

And disassembled, each half is an easy single handed carry.

She is super easy to assemble and disassemble.

Just a GREAT all around dink.

http://ptwatercraft.com/ptwatercraft/PT11Home.html

I want one, even before the boat it would be the tender for!  A great little sailboat itself.

I would do a B&B Spindrift too, even if it's not as nice.

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As someone who has gunked around the San Juans in both a hard dingy (the same as Olaf's, actually the very same one since I sold it to him and some days want it back) and an inflatable (an Avon like Ajax's, but not the same one) I can say both work fine. For the orignal poster's use I would go with the hard. It sounds like it sits for long periods of time so UV and other abuses will take a toll on an inflatable, even the more expensive hypalon types. To get around this you could pump and deploy the inflatable every time, but the added hassle may not be  worth it. I now have only the Avon but part of the appeal is the ability to store it for long passages, rather than tow when he weather gets bad and current acts up. I am too lazy to store a hard dink on deck.

I do have a 35 year old 2hp Evinrude that works well enough to bring it on cruises, but not enough to trust it further than I can row. I would get a better motor but I can carry the old 2 cycle in one hand while I climb into the Avon from the mother ship. Any gas motor that you have to store on the boat or dock for long periods while you are away is a bad idea, better to row a hard dink.

If you go with an inflatable heed Ajax'a advice and look for a good used avon redcrest. They last much longer than a PVC boat and their shape is more space efficient. They pack small too.

Now that another "whats the best dingy" discusion is winding down I have some other questions. I have a boat with a tiller that I would like to convert to a wheel, and another with a wheel that might be better with a tiller, what should I do? I also need to buy six anchors, what's the best one? Halle Berry or Gwyneth Paltrow?  we need to know.

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14 hours ago, kimbottles said:

I have owned a lot of dinks, both inflatable and hard sided.

The PT-11 Nesting dink from PT Watercraft I recently acquired is the best one ever.

She rows so well I have not bothered to try out the 2hp Honda on her.

And disassembled, each half is an easy single handed carry.

She is super easy to assemble and disassemble.

Just a GREAT all around dink.

http://ptwatercraft.com/ptwatercraft/PT11Home.html

Yes, I never thought I would go for a kit boat, but from the first time I saw one I was convinced that was the ideal dingy for me. If I can only stop working on the boat long enough to build one. 

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6 hours ago, Jet14 said:

I'm struck by all the different use scenarios.  Some people like speed and others row.  Others want a small motor that can be easily stored and passed down to the dink like ours.    We don't want to make waves or noise at an anchorage and just want to get the dog back and forth and have access to the beach etc.  I'm  leaning towards something like a Gig Harbor 10 footer or the 10' Walker bay.  Light enough to drag above the tide-line and stable enough and enough carrying capacity for a small family and gear.   I think a hard-shell dink is easier to wrap my head around.

 

Not too many dinks come with a decent rubbing strip on the keel. You will probably have to glue one on. All dinks get bashed. That's just how it goes.

Whatever you get has to be capable of being dragged up a rocky beach, so don't go with one of those heavy center console things. They weigh 300 - 600 lbs without the motor.

 

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FYI - If getting dragged over rocks is a common thing in your area, if you go RIB get an aluminum hulled RIB for sure!

I read about a guy headed to the Bahamas that wanted a dinghy that could carry a good load and not be a theft target, so he got one of those 12 foot fiberglass Gamefisher boats Sears used to sell back in the day. He said it both worked great and was totally ignored by thieves :) I had a buddy that got the aluminum version and it was light and tough, but NO ONE wanted him rowing up to their boat until he got a big foam rub rail put on. I briefly used a Penguin for a dinghy. It actually rowed very well and sailed fantastic, but it was old and wood so we felt the strain of towing it in any kind of weather was too much.

Just FYI, when tying up at a dinghy dock I almost never see anything but RIBs. Air floor or wood floor roll up inflatables and hard dinghies are extremely rare. The large yacht people seem to have a "best dinghy" competition going to the point one boat had a tender about 30 feet long with *5* outboards!

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I had, for over three years, the original design (closed transom) TAKACAT. Air floor PVC catamaran dink, the 310 ‘Lite.’  72 lb IIRC. We loved that boat. Carried weight, the 2 hp Elgin pushed it well, the 8hp Johnson got it on plane with both us and some stuff onboard. Madame made covers for it and it lasted three years on the davits. The hulls began to pull from the outer floor and I thought it too difficult to try to fix. I now wish I had. 

 

The taka died as we waited for a weather window, so in haste we replaced with a 270 Walker Bay fiberglass RIB. It does the job. Ish. It’s lightish 73 lb, won’t quite plane with us both, and is wet as shit. The WB did, in its defense, rather wetly handle some 3’ chop in a squall and got us back to the boat so it will do what we need but the TAKA did a much better job. 

 

Some fart smeller in the US oughta remake that original Taka closed-transom design... the DUX are cool boats but are very heavy. BTW 100 lb is, to me, very heavy. Each of us should be able to handle the dink and engine alone if need be. 

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2 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

BTW 100 lb is, to me, very heavy. Each of us should be able to handle the dink and engine alone if need be. 

Amen to this.

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Max,  I've been eyeing those Takacats but the open transom seem to me to be a deal killer.  Might be ok in the tropics but here in the PNW, I really don't want wet feet all the time....

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3 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

BTW 100 lb is, to me, very heavy. Each of us should be able to handle the dink and engine alone if need be. 

Agreed, that is one of the other problems with the Minto (and Dyer Dhow) compared to other hard dinghies.  They are about 100lbs where you can find other options with similar capabilities that are closer to 60lbs.

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I have an 8ft portabote that I got second hand. It rows really well, is basically indestructable and then I store it on either the lifelines on the side of the boat or in shitty weather i put it below. I used to have a 10ft one but it was just a bit too large to easily assemble on the foredeck solo. Both were second hand.

If you do get one, don't get the canoe stern versions. I switched my 10ft one for one for a while and they are tippy death traps, the newer ones with the wide stern are way better. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Alex W said:

Agreed, that is one of the other problems with the Minto (and Dyer Dhow) compared to other hard dinghies.  They are about 100lbs where you can find other options with similar capabilities that are closer to 60lbs.

I think it depends on how you are set up to handle the dinghy. My Portland Pudgy is heavy, but she is lifted to the deck by a spin halyard connected to an electric winch which makes the weight a non-issue. She weighs 128 lbs and I have no problem pulling her up a beach or boat ramp or flipping her over on the deck by myself. I am young and 6' 4" though, so it probably depends somewhat on physical strength as well. Personally I've never come across a hard dinghy that weighs 60 lbs and can carry as much.  

17424821_1460872100672408_3466008269401140859_n.jpg

20525914_1605579132868370_1789802461277617734_n.jpg

21077769_1632875346805415_3285886800816292828_n.jpg

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29 minutes ago, alctel said:

I have an 8ft portabote that I got second hand. It rows really well, is basically indestructable and then I store it on either the lifelines on the side of the boat or in shitty weather i put it below. I used to have a 10ft one but it was just a bit too large to easily assemble on the foredeck solo. Both were second hand.

If you do get one, don't get the canoe stern versions. I switched my 10ft one for one for a while and they are tippy death traps, the newer ones with the wide stern are way better. 

 

Except for having to look at it.

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Will: The Pudgy is a really cool boat and something that I might consider if doing an around the world cruise.  None of the boats that I've cruised on around the Salish Sea have had an electric winch handy for getting the dinghy onto the foredeck.  The rocky beaches around here encourage me to walk the boat up instead of drag it too.

A 60lb Gig Harbor Ultralight 9' compares well in utility and capabilities to a 100lb Minto, but is a lot easier to manage.

 

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I love our Trinka 10 for sailing and rowing. Supposed to be great with a 2hp outboard but I have never tried it. Gorgeous as well. Heavy though. 

6712ECA5-8C31-447D-B52B-754121DA6411.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Alex W said:

Will: The Pudgy is a really cool boat and something that I might consider if doing an around the world cruise.  None of the boats that I've cruised on around the Salish Sea have had an electric winch handy for getting the dinghy onto the foredeck.  The rocky beaches around here encourage me to walk the boat up instead of drag it too.

A 60lb Gig Harbor Ultralight 9' compares well in utility and capabilities to a 100lb Minto, but is a lot easier to manage.

 

 

The pudgy has a wheel, and the keel is quite strong. Rocks are not a problem, the keel protects the rest of the hull from being scratched. You can hit the hull with a sledge hammer and it won't break. (Sorry for sounding like Brent Swain...)

17436261_1460872070672411_5092695214645106917_o.jpg

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My dinghy weighs 130 pounds I think or maybe 180, can't recall. I never lift it up, it goes in and out off a trailer. The weight really is no factor in daily use. The only time I feel it is flipping it over in the yard to paint the bottom.
Now the engine at 65-70 pounds or so..........no way would I have an engine that heavy if I had to take it on and off the boat more than once a year.

If anyone wants a Dyer, get the 9 footer or larger. The interior room and rowing ability gains are HUGE over the midget.

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5 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Except for having to look at it.

Oh yeah ugly as fucccccccccccccccck

 

Looks like a floating carboard box and have had people openly laugh at me in anchorages as I'm rowing around

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2 hours ago, willp14335 said:

 

The pudgy has a wheel, and the keel is quite strong. Rocks are not a problem, the keel protects the rest of the hull from being scratched. You can hit the hull with a sledge hammer and it won't break. (Sorry for sounding like Brent Swain...)

 

There was a guy selling rotomolded flats skiffs at a boat show here a few years ago.

Knowing no one would trust it to be as strong as fiberglass, he was literally standing there with a hammer getting people to take a swipe at his display boat, then asking them whether any of the fiberglass boat dealers would let them do the same.

There were no takers among nearby FG boat dealers, but it did get some annoyed looks. Pretty funny. They left us alone because we were selling sailboats.

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Oh, I forgot weights. The 10' hard dinghy was 110 lbs - but that was because I used a particularly heavy 1/4" plywood. Edensaw was all out of lighter okuome when I came to pick up the plywood. In okoume it would be about 85-90 lbs.

It hung in a stern arch across oceans. No drama - the bottom of the dinghy was well above the deck level.

With a 15 HP motor, we took the motor off for overnight passages and stowed it in a stern locker. One person hoisted it with the main halyard, dinghy lashed fore and aft alongside. 1 person (me) in the dinghy to guide it up, and then lower it into a locker. It's less than a 5 minute process once you've done it a few times. Much better than hanging all the weight on the stern arch in rough seas. For day passages the motor stayed on the dinghy.

The 10' AB glass hulled RIB was about 140 lbs. Heavy beast but a more comfy ride as the tubes deform over chop. I didn't mind the ride in the #2 dinghy but my wife's back didn't like it as much.

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16 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

There was a guy selling rotomolded flats skiffs at a boat show here a few years ago.

Knowing no one would trust it to be as strong as fiberglass, he was literally standing there with a hammer getting people to take a swipe at his display boat, then asking them whether any of the fiberglass boat dealers would let them do the same.

There were no takers among nearby FG boat dealers, but it did get some annoyed looks. Pretty funny. They left us alone because we were selling sailboats.

Rotomoulded plastic is interesting, because it scratches fairly easily, but is really difficult to break because it deforms under load. It's heavy but I think it makes a good material for a work horse kind of boat. 

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2 hours ago, willp14335 said:

Rotomoulded plastic is interesting, because it scratches fairly easily, but is really difficult to break because it deforms under load. It's heavy but I think it makes a good material for a work horse kind of boat. 

I have a few rotomolded kayaks. The oldest one I bought out of a rental fleet about 20 years ago.

Prior to the purchase, a friend of mine rented that boat. They got it off the rack and gave it a mighty shove down the concrete ramp. SOP.

It has a few scratches.

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Due to various legacy boats, I have a Bombard 340 with a 10hp, a Bombard 290 with a 2.3hp, and two Avon Redcrests. The 340 is a RIB, and rows perfectly adequately as well as doing 13kts on the plane with 250kg on board, but the boat I use the most is one of the Redcrests, which paddles easily, carries 4 at a pinch, and I can lift it up on one arm and carry it onto the tramp or onto the car roof. I can put the 2.3hp on it, but haven't bothered yet. I try to avoid long commutes, but if I have to I use the 340. The 290 is the worst of both worlds, too heavy to lift around, too slow to do a long distance, hopeless to row, no room inside.

I've tried towing the 340, but above 15kts it bounces so much that the fuel tank flipped and spilt fuel, so I won't be doing that again. I lift it onboard using the boom and the topping lift, plenty of room on the tramps for such a little boat, but a pain compared to the Redcrest. I have a rigid hull boat nearly ready, but not sure how it will go as a tender. We'll see......

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The Pudgy is the worst dinghy ever made. Ugly heavy slow and needs the rare long shaft baby outboard.

The Walker Bay needs the flotation collar to be safe when loaded in a chop. It is also difficult to get back in one when in the water. This applies to most if not all 8 ft hard dinks

Aluminium RIBS are light but there have been a number of corrosion related failures. Google aluminium rib corrosion problems

If you are going to row get a lightweight gig type at least 11 ft long it is the thing to have. Shame they are such a pig to stow. 

The cheapest DIY dinks are based on the skeleton of a 9 or 10 ft RIB with plywood sides. If you are going to fit a heavy motor you need pods extending back from the transom. A sheet of 8x4 WBP ply and some epoxy plus a couple of mornings and bingo 

My grp rib is a workhorse. with 18hp I can anchor 2 - 3 miles away from dinghy dock and get there in a reasonable time. More importantly. I know that I am safe in conditions that would swamp a Pudgy or Walker Bay. It is easy to get back on board from the water using a rope ladder. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, TQA said:

The Pudgy is the worst dinghy ever made. Ugly heavy slow and needs the rare long shaft baby outboard.

The Walker Bay needs the flotation collar to be safe when loaded in a chop. It is also difficult to get back in one when in the water. This applies to most if not all 8 ft hard dinks

Aluminium RIBS are light but there have been a number of corrosion related failures. Google aluminium rib corrosion problems

If you are going to row get a lightweight gig type at least 11 ft long it is the thing to have. Shame they are such a pig to stow. 

The cheapest DIY dinks are based on the skeleton of a 9 or 10 ft RIB with plywood sides. If you are going to fit a heavy motor you need pods extending back from the transom. A sheet of 8x4 WBP ply and some epoxy plus a couple of mornings and bingo 

My grp rib is a workhorse. with 18hp I can anchor 2 - 3 miles away from dinghy dock and get there in a reasonable time. More importantly. I know that I am safe in conditions that would swamp a Pudgy or Walker Bay. It is easy to get back on board from the water using a rope ladder. 

 

 

 

I've sailed my pudgy in 30 knot winds and 6' waves, off the coast of Grenada. In the BVIs I took it up to a beach through breaking surf with no problems. It was originally designed as a life raft,  is very buoyant  and it doesn't swamp easily. It is also self bailing with less than 35 lbs on board. 

 

Worst dinghy ever made? Not by a long shot, it does what it was designed to do. 

17342741_1460872010672417_4424264108434286225_n.jpg

17352300_1460872090672409_5162516036509759431_n.jpg

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On 28/10/2017 at 8:20 AM, Zonker said:

Here's the 10' planing dinghy plans (disclaimer I designed it and get a piece of the action)

https://bateau.com/studyplans/GV10_study.php?prod=GV10

It holds a LOT of kids. This was the second run which was not as full as first run.

 

kids.jpg.0b2de1ac130c9590449552647c549812.jpg

 

Which other boats did you design for them?

I built their Scilly Gig, it was a nice two rower boat.

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Started with the Nesting FB11, GV10, GV11, then GV 13. The three sea kayaks, HMD19, Maia24, MM21.

Jst going to start on another soon.

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Interesting.

there is a gap for something with a bit of shelter, around 18’ to 20’, and designed to plane under 20 knots in a chop with lowish power, like the latest  light four stroke suzukis, the 25 and  30.

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If going rib, then the 5m Naiad (4WD of the sea) has a cuddy version. They suggest 40hp upwards. If you want shelter then you need some horses to push her through the air as well as the water. If you want 5-6m and cuddy for only 25-30hp you might plane alone, but not if you've got any mates or beer, let alone both. 

 

IMG_1050.JPG

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We ski behind this 3.8m with 20hp - just. One driver, one observer and deep water starter at ~80kg skier takes a little bit of time, or very dicey double ski beach starts. No slalom/single starts but can drop a ski once up. Need to clear the wildlife first...

 

IMG_1642.JPG

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20 hours ago, hump101 said:

Due to various legacy boats, I have a Bombard 340 with a 10hp, a Bombard 290 with a 2.3hp, and two Avon Redcrests. The 340 is a RIB, and rows perfectly adequately as well as doing 13kts on the plane with 250kg on board, but the boat I use the most is one of the Redcrests, which paddles easily, carries 4 at a pinch, and I can lift it up on one arm and carry it onto the tramp or onto the car roof. I can put the 2.3hp on it, but haven't bothered yet. I try to avoid long commutes, but if I have to I use the 340. The 290 is the worst of both worlds, too heavy to lift around, too slow to do a long distance, hopeless to row, no room inside.

I've tried towing the 340, but above 15kts it bounces so much that the fuel tank flipped and spilt fuel, so I won't be doing that again. I lift it onboard using the boom and the topping lift, plenty of room on the tramps for such a little boat, but a pain compared to the Redcrest. I have a rigid hull boat nearly ready, but not sure how it will go as a tender. We'll see......

My 340 rib is towed everywhere in all kinds of weather. The fuel tank is bungee-corded to the two fittings on the floor under the seat and stays put. Also FYI I cut an access port near the stern so I can pump out the inner hull if I need to without hauling the boat.

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13 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

My 340 rib is towed everywhere in all kinds of weather. The fuel tank is bungee-corded to the two fittings on the floor under the seat and stays put. Also FYI I cut an access port near the stern so I can pump out the inner hull if I need to without hauling the boat.

I had mine bungee'd into the boat inside a plastic bucket, but it still flipped, and like an idiot I hadn't closed the vent. I've never had any water inside the hull, didn't realise it was hollow? There's no bung in mine so I'm pretty sure it isn't. Is yours the folding transom version?

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I have always had Zodiac Cadet inflatables ,older original Frog made not the Chinese crap ones.

Total turd to row any distance but will tootle along well enough with a 2hp Yamaha.

Deflates easily and not too heavy plus packs down to a handy size to stow on my 32ft sloop.

All practicalities aside I secretly hanker after one of these Townson designed gems.

Weighs the same as the inflatable.

cJsIRPY.jpg

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23 hours ago, HFC Hunter said:

We ski behind this 3.8m with 20hp - just. One driver, one observer and deep water starter at ~80kg skier takes a little bit of time, or very dicey double ski beach starts. No slalom/single starts but can drop a ski once up. Need to clear the wildlife first...

 

 

My parents used to ski behind this skiff powered by a 1961 10 hp Johnson, including deep water slalom starts, but you should have seen what they used as a slalom back then. Like a wooden surfboard with boots.

alum-boat-coquina-ramp.jpg

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We found some old skis like that and tried them for shits and giggles. Almost no fin made them as skittish as an actress around Weinstein. Terrifying bindings as well. 

It's good fun steering the boat from 30' behind it. :)

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