Jet14

Hard vs soft dinghy

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3 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

Re power:weight in OB...

the Hobie Power Skiff. Go thou and Google. 

A friend had a Hobie Power Skiff, great boat. He would volunteer to be a mark boat at the YC's bigger regattas, I'd volunteer to be on the boat....spent many hours on that boat. Ideal boat for that purpose.

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7 hours ago, willp14335 said:

 

Those stern sections look a lot like the Portland Pudgy. 

 

WillP, William and John Atkin were great designers, be good to study them a bit. 

Here is listing of their designs.

  http://www.atkinboatplans.com

 

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I made a PT11 from the kit with a view to using it first on the Tennessee River and then as a nesting tender to a salt water yacht. It was quite expensive and took me about 18 months/600 manhours to build doing it exactly by the book, by myself, after work and most weekends - much longer than I had anticipated. It rows easily at 5 knots in flat water and sails well too. I haven't used it as as tender yet (my newly-acquired Bristol 45.5. came with an RIB) but I'm now doubting its suitability for this function. It can only take a 2 HP motor max and has limited capacity for people and stores. It also looks so pretty I'd hate to subject it to the abuse a tender must take.  

20171023_210124_1515981084410_resized.jpg

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I wish I could afford the weight penalty ‘cause that Hobie Skiff would have otherwise been the perfect dink. Handled really well, very nimble.  Did surprisingly well in shitty weather; got caught in a t-storm and the boat took it like a champ. 

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On January 14, 2018 at 8:45 PM, Mirror16 said:

I made a PT11 from the kit with a view to using it first on the Tennessee River and then as a nesting tender to a salt water yacht. It was quite expensive and took me about 18 months/600 manhours to build doing it exactly by the book, by myself, after work and most weekends - much longer than I had anticipated. It rows easily at 5 knots in flat water and sails well too. I haven't used it as as tender yet (my newly-acquired Bristol 45.5. came with an RIB) but I'm now doubting its suitability for this function. It can only take a 2 HP motor max and has limited capacity for people and stores. It also looks so pretty I'd hate to subject it to the abuse a tender must take.  

20171023_210124_1515981084410_resized.jpg

Nice work. Take it on the boat, not as your workhorse, but as your fun dink. I have an inflatable for chores - getting provisions, laundry, ferrying, all that shit. I also tow a Trinka 10 with the sailing rig for rowing and sailing fun. Guess which gets more use? Hint: it ain't  made of hypalon.

Where's the big boat live?

 

 

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On January 14, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Mirror16 said:

I made a PT11 from the kit with a view to using it first on the Tennessee River and then as a nesting tender to a salt water yacht. It was quite expensive and took me about 18 months/600 manhours to build doing it exactly by the book, by myself, after work and most weekends - much longer than I had anticipated. It rows easily at 5 knots in flat water and sails well too. I haven't used it as as tender yet (my newly-acquired Bristol 45.5. came with an RIB) but I'm now doubting its suitability for this function. It can only take a 2 HP motor max and has limited capacity for people and stores. It also looks so pretty I'd hate to subject it to the abuse a tender must take.  

20171023_210124_1515981084410_resized.jpg

Hello 'Mirror 16',

I am sorry you have doubts about your PT 11. Your experience noted here differs from most of the feedback we get. We hardly heard from you throughout your project and it would have been good for us to know if the build presented any problems. Build times vary wildly depending on a person's work style and confidence. Based on lots of feedback build times could be 180 hours and up. One woman finished a nicely built PT11 in 4 weeks and, yes, I was impressed. There are a lot of longevity details in the build that take extra time as our intention is to build value instead of a disposable dinghy. One of the more satisfying things for us about our business is that lots of our clients have really enjoyed the build process.  See a customer produced video of building one. (https://vimeo.com/187076801)

The PT 11 is designed to be a hardy tender and we have used our own prototypes a lot. For us, cruising is to slow down and enjoy ourselves, explore, go dinghy sailing, etc. We designed the boat with good rowing capability and prefer to discourage using a motor. We stuff a lot of gear and food into ours as well. The PT 11 is our personal ideal in a dinghy but we also know it is not everyone's ideal. I do hope you have a lot of fun in the boat.  You are always welcome to contact us. I think you know we value good service. More videos if anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/user/ptwatercraft            Sincerely, Ashlyn Brown - Port Townsend Watercraft

 

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Hey Mirror 16, I'll do you a big favor and take that PT 11 off of your hands for you! I'll even drive up and pick it up.

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On 1/16/2018 at 1:14 PM, Russell Brown said:

Hello 'Mirror 16',

I am sorry you have doubts about your PT 11. Your experience noted here differs from most of the feedback we get. We hardly heard from you throughout your project and it would have been good for us to know if the build presented any problems. Build times vary wildly depending on a person's work style and confidence. Based on lots of feedback build times could be 180 hours and up. One woman finished a nicely built PT11 in 4 weeks and, yes, I was impressed. There are a lot of longevity details in the build that take extra time as our intention is to build value instead of a disposable dinghy. One of the more satisfying things for us about our business is that lots of our clients have really enjoyed the build process.  See a customer produced video of building one. (https://vimeo.com/187076801)

The PT 11 is designed to be a hardy tender and we have used our own prototypes a lot. For us, cruising is to slow down and enjoy ourselves, explore, go dinghy sailing, etc. We designed the boat with good rowing capability and prefer to discourage using a motor. We stuff a lot of gear and food into ours as well. The PT 11 is our personal ideal in a dinghy but we also know it is not everyone's ideal. I do hope you have a lot of fun in the boat.  You are always welcome to contact us. I think you know we value good service. More videos if anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/user/ptwatercraft            Sincerely, Ashlyn Brown - Port Townsend Watercraft

Russell, I only just came across your post here other otherwise I would've responded sooner. I didn't mean to sound as critical of the PT11 as I evidently did. It rows and sails well, looks great (much interest and positive comments from others) and, as I still haven't actually used it as a nesting yacht tender, it may well be up to that task too. I'm sure it took me a lot longer to build than most people due to my work style and schedule. It wasn't because of any problems. Your instruction book is very clear and well-written, everything fitted as it should and the couple of times I asked you guys basic questions early on, you responded quickly. Here is a photo showing the removable wheels I fitted to launch it easily in one piece by myself at a boat ramp. 

Webp.net-resizeimage.jpg

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I am almost very happy with my Walker Bay 8. It's a great boat, very dependable for full time cruising. The only problem is that I cannot transform it in a nesting one. I cruise on a small sailboat and it would be great to be able to store the dinghy on the cabin top under the boom. Right now is where the WB lives while underway offshore but this prevent us from having a dodger as it extends on top of the companionway. Not a problem for the tropical weather we are in right now, but we are planning some higher latitudes trips so the dodger would come handy.

I decided to build a nesting dinghy using 1/4inch nidacore and fiberglass and I will use my WB as a jig/female mold because I really like the shape and performance. The idea is to place strips of nidacore follwing the boat curves, using strips of lumber as keel and stringers to hold in place the core following the curve of the hull. Once l laminate the inside I will flip it and laminate the outside. The result will be slightly smaller boat, which is ok for us. The opposite would be true if we would use it as a male plug, but even if that would make the work probably easier, we would love to keep the beam narrower rather than wider.

Despite having quite a good idea of the process, I couldn't find any information on the internet about similar experiences. Either because it's a terrible idea, or because people keep it under the radar.

I will start the project in few weeks, if anybody knows of any previous attempt, please send it this way.

Thanks

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3 hours ago, Cuntyhunk said:

I am almost very happy with my Walker Bay 8. It's a great boat, very dependable for full time cruising. The only problem is that I cannot transform it in a nesting one. I cruise on a small sailboat and it would be great to be able to store the dinghy on the cabin top under the boom. Right now is where the WB lives while underway offshore but this prevent us from having a dodger as it extends on top of the companionway. Not a problem for the tropical weather we are in right now, but we are planning some higher latitudes trips so the dodger would come handy.

I decided to build a nesting dinghy using 1/4inch nidacore and fiberglass and I will use my WB as a jig/female mold because I really like the shape and performance. The idea is to place strips of nidacore follwing the boat curves, using strips of lumber as keel and stringers to hold in place the core following the curve of the hull. Once l laminate the inside I will flip it and laminate the outside. The result will be slightly smaller boat, which is ok for us. The opposite would be true if we would use it as a male plug, but even if that would make the work probably easier, we would love to keep the beam narrower rather than wider.

Despite having quite a good idea of the process, I couldn't find any information on the internet about similar experiences. Either because it's a terrible idea, or because people keep it under the radar.

I will start the project in few weeks, if anybody knows of any previous attempt, please send it this way.

Thanks

Walker Bay and performance are two words rarely found in close proximity.

But on to more mundane matters. WHy on earth put yourself through the hassle of cloning a WB. WHy not build something like the Chameleon? You can sail rings around any WB and it will carry three in safety without any buoyancy tube. 

Chameleon plans

ANd yes I have rowed and sailed a Chameleon when I was loaned one when my OB crapped out.

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Graham Byrnes (B&B) has some good nesting designs too. I haven't rowed one, but I have rowed a Chameleon.  Graham's designs look like they would have less surface area & weight. That's all I know.

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8 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Graham Byrnes (B&B) has some good nesting designs too. I haven't rowed one, but I have rowed a Chameleon.  Graham's designs look like they would have less surface area & weight. That's all I know.

I've rowed and sailed all of Graham's dinghies in the non-nesting version. They're good little boats.

http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/purchase-plans/

I don't have any experience with the nesting versions so I don't know how much weight that adds. But it is partly dependent on design and partly dependent on good build to have the boat stay light & strong. It's both a science and an art...... that's what we love about boats, I guess.

I built my own 9' dinghy out of foam core instead of plywood, both to keep it light and to keep it from ever rotting. Due to my sloppy build skills, it came out heavier than it could have been but still a bit lighter than a similar-size ply boat (about 35lbs).

FB- Doug

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I built a Nesting 11' Spindrift from B&B last year. I don't have a bigger boat to yet so I haven't had the chance to use it as a tender but it sails well. The nesting version should only be about 10'lbs heavier than the standard version. The plans are less than $100 so it's a drop in the bucket compared to the entire cost of the build.

The nesting version should only be about 10'lbs heavier than the standard version.  I can actually move the heavier aft end of the dinghy around on land with out using my hands. I just stand up inside of it and the seats rest on my shoulders so I can walk around wearing the dinghy like a cape.

The primary reason I built a dinghy is I couldn't find any commercially built nesting dinghies. It was a ridiculous amount of work. But now that the memories and scars have started to fade I want to build another boat.

 

My Spindrift is the blue boat with the old guy in it in the attached picture.

 

 

 

spindrift.jpg

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Need a dingy?

A mariner near us in PT has a brand new Portland Pudgy for sale.

Basic rowboat with oars, bow bumper and boarding ladder.
White.

Normal price is about $3,500 with a few options and delivered.

He wants $2,500. I think that's a deal.

It's brand new. Never used.

I can pass along contact info. Send it to me at: donn.christianson@gmail.com

This is an awesome dinghy. I can speak in detail to it's characteristics.

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A Pudgy is a poor choice for a cruising dinghy. 

You need a longshaft outboard how many Tohatsu 3.3 long shafts have you seen? NB they do make them!

It is heavy

It is slow 

It needs to be fendered. 

Normal human beings can not get back into a Pudgy from the water. You need a ladder. 

I see large numbers of cruisers in the Eastern Caribbean. I have seen two Pudgys. Both were for sale.

It's only plus point that I can see is that it is resistant to impact damage.

 

 

Quote

 

Need a dingy?

A mariner near us in PT has a brand new Portland Pudgy for sale.

Basic rowboat with oars, bow bumper and boarding ladder.
White.

Normal price is about $3,500 with a few options and delivered.

He wants $2,500. I think that's a deal.

It's brand new. Never used.

I can pass along contact info. Send it to me at: donn.christianson@gmail.com

This is an awesome dinghy. I can speak in detail to it's characteristics.

 


 

 

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People I know who have them seem to be most attracted to the "it's a lifeboat too" aspect, so they don't need to carry or pay for a separate raft. I'm sure BJ or his son could give you a more in-depth perspective but the liferaft aspect aside, I think a Walker Bay gives you 80-90% of the Pudgy's benefits for 1/3 the price.

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One third?  Going rate for a WB8 around here is $200 - $300.  Cheap enough to "get creative" with one at risk of ruining it without much harm.  Still won't fit on the deck of a 30-footer though.

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On 4/26/2018 at 1:58 PM, Russell Brown said:

Graham Byrnes (B&B) has some good nesting designs too. I haven't rowed one, but I have rowed a Chameleon.  Graham's designs look like they would have less surface area & weight. That's all I know.

I built one of his Spindrift 10 nesting designs back in the mid 90's. It was our only tender on a 36' mono-hull with just the two of us cruising for two years. It was lovely to row, so we didn't have an outboard at all for that trip. When we went cruising 15 years later with two teenage kids and a catamaran, we replaced it with a RIB and a big outboard. Wouldn't change either decision even with hindsight.

5ae395edb5440_IMG_0548(2).thumb.jpg.11d0474375a561116883d02e3584f16a.jpg

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That's a pretty smart looking dinghy! I know Graham Byrnes and he's a pretty switched-on guy. I would like very much to get to row one of his dinghies, but haven't had the chance. I know that lots of people have built the Chameleon, but I wasn't personally impressed with the rowing characteristics or the aesthetics of it.

Can't agree with you about the RIB and large outboard. They make me froth at the mouth. Sorry.

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Oh boy..I am way behind..I need to review all the PT-11 posts to this thread! I have wanted to build me one of these bad for years now! I have too many projects. I must prioritize better.

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19 hours ago, chester said:

I think Will has praised the pudgy as a cruising tender several times.

He also collected and presented Pudgy Polars data, which will probably remain the funniest thing a kid has done with a boat for the rest of my life.

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On 4/25/2018 at 4:54 PM, TQA said:

Walker Bay and performance are two words rarely found in close proximity.

That's true. We should probably give one to willp.

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11 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

That's true. We should probably give one to willp.

I've seen my name, and decided to show up now that I'm no longer mired in dissertation work.  IMHO anything can go fast (at least for a moment) under the right conditions. I've had the Pudgy at 11.4 knots with the engine. :lol:

 

Also, with all due respect to previous posters, I'm going to point out a few things. Firstly, the Portland Pudgy is an unusual boat, with a very specific design brief. While I don't claim it is an excellent tender for a family (it's too small for that, at 10 feet it would be much more suitable), it is a good boat for up to three people. It is reliable, it won't puncture or deflate, it lasts longer than hypalon, it is self bailing, impact resistant, tows better than an inflatable and has inbuilt foam buoyancy. While it will never power as well as a rib, it sure rows a hell of a lot better when the engine inevitably dies, and it can also sail. IMHO, it also has a lot more character than an inflatable and is less ugly.

I make these comparisons because I have direct experience using both kinds of boat. If you don't have this experience any comparison you make will not be as meaningful. 

As for boarding and fendering, the company makes one product that solves both of those problems, and straps conveniently into the boat. Compared to a walker bay (which I have gotten a chance to row on and a few chances to sail against) it sails better in heavy wind and is more stable. It does not row as well, but feels a lot stronger and more reassuring than the Walker Bay which came off as a little flimsy when I tried it. 

This being said, I should also point out some of the boat's weak spots. In my opinion, while everything has been well thought out on the boat, some of the components have not stood up well to my destructive testing, such as the rudder and the mast. The manufacturer was very good about replacing these parts when they broke. The Pudgy is also wet motoring upwind into a chop, especially when heavily loaded. Under sail she is dryer, but does not sail well to weather. This is one reason I think a larger version would be better for multiple people. I have no problem with the weight, but I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs, so for smaller people I can see how a 128 lb. boat would be hard to drag up a beach or flip over. Price is another disadvantage, as a walker bay will do a similar job for a lot less. 


 

 

2017_0727_02254400.jpg

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52 minutes ago, willp14335 said:

This being said, I should also point out some of the boat's weak spots. In my opinion, while everything has been well thought out on the boat, some of the components have not stood up well to my destructive testing, such as the rudder and the mast. The manufacturer was very good about replacing these parts when they broke.

Hah! I think British understatement is rubbing off on you.

Lots of broken rudders have caused sailboats to withdraw from the Everglades Challenge. Some interesting design mods have resulted.

So how did the rudder fail and could it be improved in a cost-effective way?

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Hah! I think British understatement is rubbing off on you.

Lots of broken rudders have caused sailboats to withdraw from the Everglades Challenge. Some interesting design mods have resulted.

So how did the rudder fail and could it be improved in a cost-effective way?

I broke the pintles a few times, then the company came up with a new, stronger design. Then I snapped the plastic rudder blade between the pintles, so Portland Pudgy sent me a custom rudder with solid 4mm alloy plates bolted to either side. This version has not failed for several years now. You can see the plates added in this cropped picture. 

Capture.JPG

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4 hours ago, willp14335 said:

I've seen my name, and decided to show up now that I'm no longer mired in dissertation work.  IMHO anything can go fast (at least for a moment) under the right conditions. I've had the Pudgy at 11.4 knots with the engine. :lol:

 

Also, with all due respect to previous posters, I'm going to point out a few things. Firstly, the Portland Pudgy is an unusual boat, with a very specific design brief. While I don't claim it is an excellent tender for a family (it's too small for that, at 10 feet it would be much more suitable), it is a good boat for up to three people. It is reliable, it won't puncture or deflate, it lasts longer than hypalon, it is self bailing, impact resistant, tows better than an inflatable and has inbuilt foam buoyancy. While it will never power as well as a rib, it sure rows a hell of a lot better when the engine inevitably dies, and it can also sail. IMHO, it also has a lot more character than an inflatable and is less ugly.

I make these comparisons because I have direct experience using both kinds of boat. If you don't have this experience any comparison you make will not be as meaningful. 

As for boarding and fendering, the company makes one product that solves both of those problems, and straps conveniently into the boat. Compared to a walker bay (which I have gotten a chance to row on and a few chances to sail against) it sails better in heavy wind and is more stable. It does not row as well, but feels a lot stronger and more reassuring than the Walker Bay which came off as a little flimsy when I tried it. 

This being said, I should also point out some of the boat's weak spots. In my opinion, while everything has been well thought out on the boat, some of the components have not stood up well to my destructive testing, such as the rudder and the mast. The manufacturer was very good about replacing these parts when they broke. The Pudgy is also wet motoring upwind into a chop, especially when heavily loaded. Under sail she is dryer, but does not sail well to weather. This is one reason I think a larger version would be better for multiple people. I have no problem with the weight, but I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs, so for smaller people I can see how a 128 lb. boat would be hard to drag up a beach or flip over. Price is another disadvantage, as a walker bay will do a similar job for a lot less. 


 

 

2017_0727_02254400.jpg

Though I didn't and wouldn't buy a Pudgy for some of the reasons you cited, I do think it has its place. Just curious whether you tried the WB8 or the WB10? IMHO, the extra two feet makes a huge difference in strength, capacity, and performance. Other than sharing a name, they should be considered completely different beasts. 

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To clarify I sailed against the WB 10 but rowed the 8. The 10 is faster than me in light wind but not in heavy air. 

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8 minutes ago, willp14335 said:

To clarify I sailed against the WB 10 but rowed the 8. The 10 is faster than me in light wind but not in heavy air. 

Sounds about right. Once the 10 heels enough to drag a tube, it's over. It rows way better than the 8, though, at least to me.

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I rowed the 8 in a dead calm. I can imagine in wind it would be difficult to track, it is a little skittish feeling. In the light stuff I could easily get to hull speed though, and it tracked easily. The pudgy rows well through waves and chop and tracks well but takes a little more effort to get moving because it's almost twice as heavy. I wouldn't expect it to row as well as the 10. 

When I sailed against the WB 10 it seemed to have a tendency to sail bow down in heavy wind. The other sailor seemed to struggle to control it when it gusted over 15. I usually reef at 20 and will sail in wind up 30 knots in. After that it feels like I'm straining the boat for no good reason, and it's usually more pleasant to have a beer on the mother ship when it's that windy anyways. 

One thing I'd be interested to see how the boats fared under against each other under power. 

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6 hours ago, willp14335 said:

I broke the pintles a few times, then the company came up with a new, stronger design. Then I snapped the plastic rudder blade between the pintles, so Portland Pudgy sent me a custom rudder with solid 4mm alloy plates bolted to either side. This version has not failed for several years now. You can see the plates added in this cropped picture. 

Will, the PudgyCo should use you in a tongue-in-cheek advert, like this:

[Video: Pudgy being built] "Well build the Pudgy.  We build it tough".

"We have to.  Your life depends on it." [Video: happy families with kids and puppies]

"It's your life raft." [Video: panicked family as yot catches fire]

"Your Pudgy is your only means of survival when disaster hits your yacht." [Video: scared family in Pudgy as burning yot sinks]

"Pudgy keeps you safe  and gets you to land." [Video: happy family of Pudgy survivors reaches safe land via raging surf]

similar melodrama: small kids row Pudgy; crew use Pudgy to return to yot as its anchor drags towards rocks; etc.

"So Pudgy doesn't break." [Video: battered Pudgies, all still working]

"Or it didn't break. Until ... until Will" [Video: Will standing in row of dwarves, so he looks 20 feet tall]

"Meet Will.  He's a trainee naval architect .. " [Video: Will at CAD screen Will at tow test tank, etc] "... who specialises in breaking dinghies" [Video: Will plus  Pudgy in assorted extreme conditions]

"Will broke his Pudgy's mast" [Video: Will in dismasted Pudgy]

"So we gave him a new mast" [Video: happy Will receives new mast from Fedex woman]

"He broke that too"  [Video: smug Will in dismasted Pudgy]

"So we gave him another new mast" [Video: Will receives new mast from Fedex woman, who says "same again, Will"]

"He broke the third mast"   [Video: v smug Will in dismasted Pudgy]

"So we made a better mast" [Video: Will receives new mast from Fedex woman, who says "this is becoming a habit, Will"]

"Will can't break our new mast" [Video: Will sails Pudgy in storm ; Will jumps mast etc; Will gives up in disgust]

repeat with rudder, ending with frustrated Will unable unable to break new mega-rudder.

"We built it. The Pudgy that Will can't break" [Video: Pudgy with all the Will-proof bits]

"So how much extra for the Will-proof Pudgy?" [Video: pile of dollar bills]

"Zero" [Video: $0 animated] "Nothing.  Not a cent.  All new Pudgies are Will-proof" [Video: Pudgies leaving factory all stamped "Will-proof"]

"In case he comes for yours" [Video: CGI monster-Will strides towards dinghy ramp with hundreds of Pudgies]

fade

Caption: "Pudgy. Now even Will can't break it"

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36 minutes ago, Kirwan said:

That's a lovely ad.  But Will's already on the Portland Pudgy page; 

http://www.portlandpudgy.com/

I hadn't seen that.  All good, but they should uncage him out of those still photos and tell a story  ... even if it is less fictionalised than my version :D

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In it's defense, the Pudgy is not a disposable inflatable taking up space in a landfill and it will move at hull speed with the smallest outboard.

it is not normal and boring, it doesn't have a gas-guzzling outboard hanging off the back, and it actually could save someones life. I'm not saying that I would own one, but I'd surely have one before I had an inflatable.

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13 hours ago, willp14335 said:

I broke the pintles a few times, then the company came up with a new, stronger design. Then I snapped the plastic rudder blade between the pintles, so Portland Pudgy sent me a custom rudder with solid 4mm alloy plates bolted to either side. This version has not failed for several years now. You can see the plates added in this cropped picture. 

Capture.JPG

I like TwoLegged's tale but it sounds to me like they've gotten to the point where the next thing that breaks is really bad.

On older Hobie Adventure Islands like ours, the plastic rudder pins break. Hobie made slightly stronger ones but warned against putting something more sturdy, like a bolt, if you did not want to twist the stern right off the boat.

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On 11/24/2017 at 10:09 AM, RKoch said:

nota sounds like a Brent Swain sock. Same anger issues.

Could be Armpitdough's cousin.

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On 4/28/2018 at 12:24 AM, IStream said:

People I know who have them seem to be most attracted to the "it's a lifeboat too" aspect, so they don't need to carry or pay for a separate raft. I'm sure BJ or his son could give you a more in-depth perspective but the liferaft aspect aside, I think a Walker Bay gives you 80-90% of the Pudgy's benefits for 1/3 the price.

Sort of 1/3 the price - that's the base boat only. If you add the stability tubes one it near doubles the cost of the Walker Bay. I don't know if it makes it as stable as the Pudgy or not.

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7 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Will, the PudgyCo should use you in a tongue-in-cheek advert, like this:

[Video: Pudgy being built] "Well build the Pudgy.  We build it tough".

"We have to.  Your life depends on it." [Video: happy families with kids and puppies]

"It's your life raft." [Video: panicked family as yot catches fire]

"Your Pudgy is your only means of survival when disaster hits your yacht." [Video: scared family in Pudgy as burning yot sinks]

"Pudgy keeps you safe  and gets you to land." [Video: happy family of Pudgy survivors reaches safe land via raging surf]

similar melodrama: small kids row Pudgy; crew use Pudgy to return to yot as its anchor drags towards rocks; etc.

"So Pudgy doesn't break." [Video: battered Pudgies, all still working]

"Or it didn't break. Until ... until Will" [Video: Will standing in row of dwarves, so he looks 20 feet tall]

"Meet Will.  He's a trainee naval architect .. " [Video: Will at CAD screen Will at tow test tank, etc] "... who specialises in breaking dinghies" [Video: Will plus  Pudgy in assorted extreme conditions]

"Will broke his Pudgy's mast" [Video: Will in dismasted Pudgy]

"So we gave him a new mast" [Video: happy Will receives new mast from Fedex woman]

"He broke that too"  [Video: smug Will in dismasted Pudgy]

"So we gave him another new mast" [Video: Will receives new mast from Fedex woman, who says "same again, Will"]

"He broke the third mast"   [Video: v smug Will in dismasted Pudgy]

"So we made a better mast" [Video: Will receives new mast from Fedex woman, who says "this is becoming a habit, Will"]

"Will can't break our new mast" [Video: Will sails Pudgy in storm ; Will jumps mast etc; Will gives up in disgust]

repeat with rudder, ending with frustrated Will unable unable to break new mega-rudder.

"We built it. The Pudgy that Will can't break" [Video: Pudgy with all the Will-proof bits]

"So how much extra for the Will-proof Pudgy?" [Video: pile of dollar bills]

"Zero" [Video: $0 animated] "Nothing.  Not a cent.  All new Pudgies are Will-proof" [Video: Pudgies leaving factory all stamped "Will-proof"]

"In case he comes for yours" [Video: CGI monster-Will strides towards dinghy ramp with hundreds of Pudgies]

fade

Caption: "Pudgy. Now even Will can't break it"

They need to re-work this ad for it.

 

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16 hours ago, willp14335 said:

I've seen my name, and decided to show up now that I'm no longer mired in dissertation work.

Speaking of which...

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Thanks for the contribution here.

I am happy with the 8 ft walker bay. It rows well with up to two people and we tested in three adults with a 2hp outboard, doing a decent job.

I don't need a bigger dinghy than this. The Chameleon is a bit beamy and when I asked Danny Greene if it was ok to make it a little narrower he wisely discouraged the modification.

All I need is a robust yet light rowing dinghy that would fit my deck so I can also build a dodger for my 29 footer. Construction will start in a couple of weeks, we are hauling out the boat for paint jobs and I might be able to build the dinghy in  shed using the rainy days of May in Panama.

I have no experience so far with honeycomb core but all the people that worked with it gave me good advices and told me it's rather simple to work with.

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On 4/28/2018 at 8:29 PM, B.J. Porter said:

Sort of 1/3 the price - that's the base boat only. If you add the stability tubes one it near doubles the cost of the Walker Bay. I don't know if it makes it as stable as the Pudgy or not.

Yeah, but they're common as dirt on Craigslist. 

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On April 28, 2018 at 9:40 AM, willp14335 said:

I broke the pintles a few times, then the company came up with a new, stronger design. Then I snapped the plastic rudder blade between the pintles, so Portland Pudgy sent me a custom rudder with solid 4mm alloy plates bolted to either side. This version has not failed for several years now. You can see the plates added in this cropped picture. 

Capture.JPG

A local boatbuilder was having trouble with pintles repeatedly breaking on a 24' trailer sailer. I had the opportunity to observe the rudder going downwind in 20 knots shortly before a failure. The kick up rudder had fiberglass cheeks, which flexed badly between the pintles...basically the rudder bent the pintles back and forth until they broke. The fix was a couple of aluminum box beams bolted either side of the rudderhead.  I suspect a similar thing was happening with the pudgy rudder/pintles.  Rudders generate a surprisingly large load.

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That is probably what happened. The rudder does flex a bit under load, with the plates it flexes a lot less. 

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Here's what I did. I had a Walker Bay 8 which being made from recycled milk bottles is the most maintenance free thing I own that stays outside, boats included. I like to row and like someone earlier said, what else are you going to do with your time?  We sail in SE Alaska and after the first year I thought as a lifeboat it would be lacking so I looked into WB's inflatable water wings. Not only are they expensive $700 they offer the disadvantages they they can deflate. So being the cheap guy I am I laminated3 layer of 2" blue foam and covered it with snazzy looking Sunbrella. We have towed it all over SE and it has never flipped or caused any trouble. If I had it to do over again I might spring for the WB 10.

DSC00356.JPG.jpg

DSCN4034.jpg

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On 4/27/2018 at 7:18 AM, TQA said:

A Pudgy is a poor choice for a cruising dinghy. 

You need a longshaft outboard how many Tohatsu 3.3 long shafts have you seen? NB they do make them!

It is heavy

It is slow 

It needs to be fendered. 

Normal human beings can not get back into a Pudgy from the water. You need a ladder. 

I see large numbers of cruisers in the Eastern Caribbean. I have seen two Pudgys. Both were for sale.

It's only plus point that I can see is that it is resistant to impact damage.

 

 

 

Our experience aboard Brigadoon differs from your opinion.

I won't argue our reasons with a mind so made up.

 

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On 5/5/2018 at 7:55 AM, Quilbilly said:

Here's what I did. I had a Walker Bay 8 which being made from recycled milk bottles is the most maintenance free thing I own that stays outside, boats included. I like to row and like someone earlier said, what else are you going to do with your time?  We sail in SE Alaska and after the first year I thought as a lifeboat it would be lacking so I looked into WB's inflatable water wings. Not only are they expensive $700 they offer the disadvantages they they can deflate. So being the cheap guy I am I laminated3 layer of 2" blue foam and covered it with snazzy looking Sunbrella. We have towed it all over SE and it has never flipped or caused any trouble. If I had it to do over again I might spring for the WB 10.

DSC00356.JPG.jpg

DSCN4034.jpg

I like that solution to the deflated WB floats. I'm glad it works for you. It looks pretty clean.

 

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3 hours ago, blackjenner said:

Our experience aboard Brigadoon differs from your opinion.

I won't argue our reasons with a mind so made up.

 

You don't consider the other minds that might not have been made up yet.

I never understood people who raised their hand to abstain from voting on the motion...

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I've been contemplating towing a sea kayak on short cruises around the lower Chesapeake.  The sit-inside is dryer and more comfortable for distance paddling, but the sit-on-top creates less concern regarding capsize while being towed.  Both are capable of carrying a single-hander along with his gear and perhaps a four-legged friend.

 

FB_IMG_1472124617833.jpg

FB_IMG_1472124622895.jpg

20180511_191126_sm_800x480.jpg

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Well I keep an inflatable kayak stuffed down in the sail locker.  Just as kind of an emergency back-up tender without the hassle of carrying a tender.  

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1 hour ago, captain_crunch said:

I've been contemplating towing a sea kayak on short cruises around the lower Chesapeake.  The sit-inside is dryer and more comfortable for distance paddling, but the sit-on-top creates less concern regarding capsize while being towed.  Both are capable of carrying a single-hander along with his gear and perhaps a four-legged friend.

 

FB_IMG_1472124617833.jpg

FB_IMG_1472124622895.jpg

20180511_191126_sm_800x480.jpg

I tried towing a standard canoe on a week's coastal cruise one time. It towed very poorly and rolled over at least once daily. Real pita. At anchor it did make an ok tender, though obviously had to be careful boarding and exiting. Overall, a regular dink that towed well would be preferable. 

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I built a CLC wood duck for use as a tender. It is lighter than sit on tops, pretty stable, and with it's big cockpit and low center of gravity not too hard to board from the mother ship. I like that it is more protected to use than a sit on top and with a spray skirt keeps me dry. I put a towing eye low on the bow and have dragged it along in pretty choppy conditions with no problems. I could not find a decent photo of it completed, here it is standing on end while a plug of thickened epoxy dries in the bow to reinforce it for towing.

image.thumb.png.84dafc7e64def64318b554b8da4651d5.png

 

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8 hours ago, RKoch said:

I tried towing a standard canoe on a week's coastal cruise one time. It towed very poorly and rolled over at least once daily. Real pita. At anchor it did make an ok tender, though obviously had to be careful boarding and exiting. Overall, a regular dink that towed well would be preferable. 

I brought an aluminum canoe as a dinghy on several cruises.... you need a bow eye put down low on the stem, and I also put a line wrapped around & under the hull at the stern thwart to add enough drag to keep it towing straight and keep it from coasting forward and crashing into the boat.

Getting in and out was always a treacherous PITA.  But it was dryer and faster than a lot of small rowing dinks. And my grandfather HATED it which was important to me at the time  :rolleyes:

FB- Doug

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I brought an aluminum canoe as a dinghy on several cruises.... you need a bow eye put down low on the stem, and I also put a line wrapped around & under the hull at the stern thwart to add enough drag to keep it towing straight and keep it from coasting forward and crashing into the boat.

Getting in and out was always a treacherous PITA.  But it was dryer and faster than a lot of small rowing dinks. And my grandfather HATED it which was important to me at the time  :rolleyes:

FB- Doug

I had an eye partway down stem, but not way down. That would have helped. Didn't have a problem with it surging forward. The issue was that I could get it to tow ok at a constant speed by adjusting the towline, but when speed changed the wake changed causing the bow to dig in and over it would go. I considered throwing a few cinder blocks in the stern, but moving them every time I got in (possible rollover with me in it!) seemed like maybe a bad plan. The main problem was the really straight rocker on the canoe. A Kayak with a bit of rocker in the bottom might be alright.

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Straight rocker is one of them oxy things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Straight rocker is one of them oxy things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know straight rockers and gay rockers. 

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On 5/9/2018 at 6:35 PM, IStream said:

You don't consider the other minds that might not have been made up yet.

I never understood people who raised their hand to abstain from voting on the motion...

I'm all for answering questions. So far the Pudgy has met our needs and served us over 5 years and 1500 nautical miles of sailing.

I'm not here to argue about it.

 

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7 hours ago, blackjenner said:

I'm all for answering questions. So far the Pudgy has met our needs and served us over 5 years and 1500 nautical miles of sailing.

I'm not here to argue about it.

 

Thanks for killing the argument. :(

Now we'll have to look elsewhere for something fun to argue about

FB- Doug

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Bah, Pudgy shmudgy.  I'll take my free to me,ancient, semi flacid Avon.

P1010636.JPG

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3 hours ago, py26129 said:

Bah, Pudgy shmudgy.  I'll take my free to me,ancient, semi flacid Avon.

P1010636.JPG

I'll up that with my semi-flaccid AB AzBond Patch dinghy.

It's time for a new dinghy for us.

We're now doing the "Buy a Highfield before we leave Oz, or wait until we get to NZ and get an OC Tender" debate.  Which will rage for months before we leave mainland Australia, but hopefully no more patches after my last round of five. Scratch that, it still leaks after those patches, but fuckitall I'm sick of patching this fucking thing.

My tubes now have more of this than original material, I think:

45388_swiftmarine_inflatablehypalonpatch

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   There was a cruiser/liveaboard guy who took a job at Gold Coast in St Croix to replenish his cruising fund. He had an old inflatable transom dinghy that the 3 piece floorboards had just about given up. He got a few GC weekly checks in his pocket and order a new rollup floorboard inflatable dinghy with the newfangled slatted floor. The old beater laid around at the GC dinghy dock for a while until he decided that the flat bottomed slatted floor wasn't really any better other than quicker to deflate and stow. He was a surfer and the long haul out to the excellent breaks just outside Salt River were a long slow ride in the rollup dink. He and some of the other epoxy wizards came up with the idea to cut the leaky bottom skin of the old beater out but left a 4" perimeter as a bonding flange to the hull tubes. The old inflatable keel was scrapped. They took some 1/4 marine ply and cut a tapered gore down the middle to make a V shape at the bow that flattened out to the no deadrise at the transom. They then scribed it to match the tubes and placed it in the boat deflated and used the Hypalon flanges to bond all around to the tubes. A stout wooden cleat to fasten the new hard bottom to the wooden transom and some biax tape down the new keel inside out and it was better than new. Threw a 6HP on it and tossed it in the water and it was a real flyer!  It was a fraction of a comparable FG RIB and they added a couple of running strakes and got even better planing and top end speed and it became the dink of choice for the morning patrol and after work surf runs. Even with two guys and boards it was up to the task and the deeper (than RIB) deadrise in the bow handled the chop and seas much better. The little dink that could became christened the "SURF SACK" and of course others followed. Wish I had photos.

Image result for salt river surf St Croix

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5 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

I'll up that with my semi-flaccid AB AzBond Patch dinghy.

It's time for a new dinghy for us.

We're now doing the "Buy a Highfield before we leave Oz, or wait until we get to NZ and get an OC Tender" debate.  Which will rage for months before we leave mainland Australia, but hopefully no more patches after my last round of five. Scratch that, it still leaks after those patches, but fuckitall I'm sick of patching this fucking thing.

My tubes now have more of this than original material, I think:

45388_swiftmarine_inflatablehypalonpatch

It's time for dinghy Viagra here.  I'm planning to try a bottle of this stuff this season.  That will increase the total investment 60 fold to $60.

 

444679.jpg

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1 hour ago, py26129 said:

It's time for dinghy Viagra here.  I'm planning to try a bottle of this stuff this season.  That will increase the total investment 60 fold to $60.

 

444679.jpg

I need to drive my dinghy through that like it's a Krispy Kreme donut.

maxresdefault.jpg

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8 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

   There was a cruiser/liveaboard guy who took a job at Gold Coast in St Croix to replenish his cruising fund. He had an old inflatable transom dinghy that the 3 piece floorboards had just about given up. He got a few GC weekly checks in his pocket and order a new rollup floorboard inflatable dinghy with the newfangled slatted floor. The old beater laid around at the GC dinghy dock for a while until he decided that the flat bottomed slatted floor wasn't really any better other than quicker to deflate and stow. He was a surfer and the long haul out to the excellent breaks just outside Salt River were a long slow ride in the rollup dink. He and some of the other epoxy wizards came up with the idea to cut the leaky bottom skin of the old beater out but left a 4" perimeter as a bonding flange to the hull tubes. The old inflatable keel was scrapped. They took some 1/4 marine ply and cut a tapered gore down the middle to make a V shape at the bow that flattened out to the no deadrise at the transom. They then scribed it to match the tubes and placed it in the boat deflated and used the Hypalon flanges to bond all around to the tubes. A stout wooden cleat to fasten the new hard bottom to the wooden transom and some biax tape down the new keel inside out and it was better than new. Threw a 6HP on it and tossed it in the water and it was a real flyer!  It was a fraction of a comparable FG RIB and they added a couple of running strakes and got even better planing and top end speed and it became the dink of choice for the morning patrol and after work surf runs. Even with two guys and boards it was up to the task and the deeper (than RIB) deadrise in the bow handled the chop and seas much better. The little dink that could became christened the "SURF SACK" and of course others followed. Wish I had photos.

Image result for salt river surf St Croix

You don’t happen to recall what he used to glue the fabric flanges to the ply?

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12 hours ago, py26129 said:

It's time for dinghy Viagra here.  I'm planning to try a bottle of this stuff this season.  That will increase the total investment 60 fold to $60.

 

444679.jpg

I have used this stuff. Works and is cheaper than the above.

SLIME.jpg

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25 minutes ago, TQA said:

I have used this stuff. Works and is cheaper than the above.

SLIME.jpg

I have put that stuff in tires of wheelbarrows, hand trucks, etc.  Didn't work. 

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Olaf

 

Most of the work done in the shop was plain old Gougeon Slow resin. Being in the tropics we sometimes used the Gougeon Tropical but that was on large layups on the big cats that they built so I imagine it was just Slow with some Cabosil and milled fibers to give some body. The plywood bottom would have been well coated with plain clear slow resin first at least a couple of times and then sanded smooth. The important detail was to bevel the top edge of the ply so as to not have a hard edge that would wear against the hypalon of the tube. 

     Another novel idea I got from my old boss in New Orleans Bill Seemann was using two part foam to permanently inflate and seal such tubes. In his younger days he had heard from oil platform divers how much effort was spent disassembling the extensive manifolds that join the maze of offshore wells to the production platforms. If you look from the surface at the various drill and production platforms out in the shallow waters of Louisiana what you don't see is all those pipes and valves and  meters that link it all together and and it grows like a root system. They used to leave much of it in place after and area became non-productive but the cost to the net fishing and shrimping industry led to legislation to remove the old stuff. At first they just used explosives and blew the hell out of everything but all those pipes and manifolds had become home to dense concentrations of all sorts of sealife so further legislation led to laboriously disassembling in sections and raising those sections with big inflatable salvage bags and bladders. Of course any sailor knows how threaded fasteners tend to stay together after any time in the sea so even when they got the sections to the surface it mean't using cutting torches to further break the crap down for transport back to the steel recycling plants. Eventually the lift bags evolved into long sausages that permitted towing back to shore without breaking them up out on the Gulf to put on barges. Seemed like a good idea but chafe on the the bags and the strops made that an iffy proposition unless the weather was really calm. If you blow your bladder and lose the manifold you are right back where you started. Bill came up with the idea of blowing two part foam into the bladders which let them survive for a lot longer in more challenging conditions. I didn't get all the details of just how he managed to do that but I imagine that they used compressed air to get the load and bladders to the surface and did the mixing and injection of the foam into the still inflated bladders. I asked how one was able to get the foam distributed evenly in the long bladders without a whole series of valves in the bladder and he said that they would run the foam mix injection hose all the way to the far end of the bladder while still pumping air into it to hold the shape an then let the foam flow while slowly withdrawing it from the bladder. The foaming action would start at the far end and gradually progress to the valve which was left open to allow the excess to escape. He said there were some pretty spectacular blowouts in the beginning but eventually they got it all figured out and I think he made some pretty good money. 

    I asked what they did with the foamed bladders after the tow to shore and he said that they held up so well that they just loaded them back on the supply boats huge cargo back deck and then when back at a raising site would use air inflated bladders to accomplish the life and then swap out the rigid foamed bladders for the ensuing tow. Big savings there. When the guys who came out to inspect the emergency life rafts in cannisters on the platforms themselves saw this, they approached Bill about blowing foam into those rafts when their 'use by' date had come. They got Coast Guard approval for that use and then the CG started extending the life span of some of their big RIB's. 

    Bill let a friend and I blow an old small RIB in the shop and it was a good way to put an end  to chasing leaks like BJ wanting to run his inflatable through the Krispy Kreme icing machine! 

The rigs you see are just the tip of a steel iceberg!

Image result for offshore oil manifold salvage

Bags on a barge

Image result for offshore oil manifold salvage

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1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

    Bill let a friend and I blow an old small RIB in the shop and it was a good way to put an end  to chasing leaks like BJ wanting to run his inflatable through the Krispy Kreme icing machine!  

I know a guy who filled a RIB's tubes with foam. It extended the life of the boat, which was at an end. Not for all that long, as I recall, but I don't remember why.

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7 hours ago, RKoch said:

I have put that stuff in tires of wheelbarrows, hand trucks, etc.  Didn't work. 

15 year old hypalon dink with multiple seam leaks needed pumping on the hour.  2 qts of Slime and it would hold air for three four days. I got another 18 months from that dink. 

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A long time ago, I thought I wanted to build one so I got the building manual. I went Bolger instead.

vzMz1Bk.jpg?1

24boFdE.jpg

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

A long time ago, I thought I wanted to build one so I got the building manual. I went Bolger instead.

 

Which Bolger?

I've always admired this one but it 's a bit long & heavy for a cruising dinghy

44190874_6cbcea3e99_o.jpg

Phil Bolger, Spur II

FB- Doug

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59 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Which Bolger?

I've always admired this one but it 's a bit long & heavy for a cruising dinghy

44190874_6cbcea3e99_o.jpg

Phil Bolger, Spur II

FB- Doug

The Elegant Punt. I built it and the spars and leeboards over the course of a winter. Only ever sailed it once before I sold it.

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10 hours ago, Ishmael said:

The Elegant Punt. I built it and the spars and leeboards over the course of a winter. Only ever sailed it once before I sold it.

Fools build boats for wise men to sail. 

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47 minutes ago, TQA said:

Fools build boats for wise men to sail.  

Quite possibly. In my case I sold virtually everything when I gave up on the frozen tundra and moved to the coast so I could sail year round. That was one of four watercraft I had poured money and time into, and I don't regret it for a second.

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