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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
southerncross

VOR Leg 2 Lisbon to Cape Town

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54 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't understand

That about sums it all up very nicely :lol:

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5 minutes ago, mad said:

 

3 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

 

How can DF sail in a different wind when they are only seperated by 12 nm west to east? That makes no sense from you.

 

Dear God, you are a complete moron!!

 

Okay how about we all make our recommendations for a good book about wind for Alinghi to read. Probably best in his native tongue whatever that is.

He can then go away and not come back until he has assimilated the knowledge within.

On the other hand perhaps we will miss his inane comments and regret sending him away.

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51 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't understand why there can be such a big difference in Wind strength? Vestas must have really hit a hole.

 

11 minutes ago, DtM said:

In the real world, not your strange fantasy world, the wind can be different metres apart never mind miles.  FFS, how many times do you need to be told.  do you think the wind is the same across the whole Atlantic, really?

 

2 minutes ago, mad said:

Dear God, you are a complete moron!!

Dtees, Madfucker..I do think we all need to be collectively very understanding of the human condition here. I believe his issues stem from him honestly believing he criss crossed the Atlantic water-skiing behind his Grandfather's UBoat in WW2 and knows wind patterns back the front. Now is a time for understanding not cheap shots.

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

 

 

Dtees, Madfucker..I do think we all need to be collectively very understanding of the human condition here. I believe his issues stem from him honestly believing he criss crossed the Atlantic water-skiing behind his Grandfather's UBoat in WW2 and knows wind patterns back the front. Now is a time for understanding not cheap shots.

Compassion for the afflicted!

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22 minutes ago, mad said:

Dear God, you are a complete moron!!

God: "Hey, don't drag me in here too. I've suffered enough"1aa0828fd7a01ac1cba21110.L.jpg

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12 minutes ago, stief said:

A photo, not vid, but looks like the drone flying skills in heavier wind are improving.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/1632.html

(aside @Elisa: in case you missed SC's post upthread, selecting 'email' from the pic/vid generates a link that can be posted here)

Right, I've aimed to do exactly that, copied it from an email.... will work on my digital skills, 

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13 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Probably best in his native tongue whatever that is.

German actually..as per my UBoat post above Woger or are you on the piss again using free WiFi at the pub??...btw posting here with authenticty but without offending Herman and the Merkel crowd here are rules I will adhere to.

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4 minutes ago, Elisa said:

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/1629.html

New meaning of 'cruising along nicely' :)

Hope I got the link copying thing right this time, help me if not :wacko:

Yup, worked. Wished the RawContent page allowed posting direct links, like the tweets, but not yet. I usually have to wait until Rennie does his magic posting the pics. Cheers.

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Another update, explaining wind differences for boats close together in case somebody is interested.

 

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't understand why there can be such a big difference in Wind strength? Vestas must have really hit a hole.

I am sorry we don't have time to explain, because it would take a fairly big book, but you need to accept that there can be significant differences over fairly small distances even in the middle of oceans with no land interference. At the last update, according to the Volvo site, Mapfre and Vestas are about 2 miles apart and they are sailing in completely different wind, with Mapfre having almost half the wind strength and there is a 40 degrees difference in direction. Even if you don't want to get into some of the more detailed stuff beig posted, all you need to do is read the Volvo dashboard and you would see the wind differences that the boats are experiencing.

You wonder why people are so rude to you. This is a classic example. The information is easily available. You aren't even trying. You have been doing the same thing from the start, assuming differences in speed is down to the boat or sailors when the most likely explanation is that they are sailing in different winds. You make sweeping and obviously wrong statements and then defend them even though to the vast majority, who do seem to have some knowledge, keep telling you that you are wrong. When people try to tell you what is going on, you are simply rude. that is why so many react so negatively to you.

I would suggest you spend a little time learning from some of the very knowledgeable people on here and that you stop making sweeping statements about how different teams are performing until you are able to back your claims up with facts.

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56 minutes ago, stief said:

Gonzalo posted a pic of showing 8 years of VOR routes (Part of a discussion with Libby and others about virtual waypoints). 

 

Thanks Stiffler. Must be more than eight years history with those 2 eastern routes or does it include Rimas and the 2 Women/2 Dogs practising their Pacific drifting game in the Atlantic first?

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Hehe. I guessed it was all VOR boat tracks x 8 years. Groupama may have been one of the Easters, but can't recall the others. Hate that . .  . now that question will rattle around inside my head until the time I can gum my mashed potatoes full time. 

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't understand why there can be such a big difference in Wind strength? Vestas must have really hit a hole.

You are only looking at general gradient macroscale model outputs, but there is a reality out there. Even a small thermal developing cloud makes its own wind regime. Choose the wrong side of the cloud and you'll get stuck.

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Do you specialise in working with the mentally challenged?

Why, do you think I'd be good at it? :):):)

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Analysis of the drone footage of TTOP's gybe. Can't tell if the runner was left on deliberately or otherwise,

 

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^^^ Live is delayed for 20 minutes. 

Pending that will be interesting to hear their take on Dee getting a lucky hand to catch up in the Verdes Dash. Weather looks reasonably stable so other than some compression gains as leaders slow, it doesn't look too promising for plastic things not throwaway.

She will then need to be dealt a Joker and gifted with a Doldrums Door the others are too early for and missed to stay in this thing.

Day 4 clock just ticked over... will start seeing soon time sorting some crews and gear out.

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Thanks JS. Anyway, dropped the Live link and updated the caption above. Think I'll give up on embedding RaceExperts links etc here--they use up too much thread space.

Will still  post the link, since unsourced comments are irritating. 

Hmmm. Wonder if the forum have an option to show thumbnails for embedded links. That would save screen space but still allow readers to choose the thumbs they expand. /blather

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1 hour ago, DtM said:

In the real world, not your strange fantasy world, the wind can be different metres apart never mind miles.  FFS, how many times do you need to be told.  do you think the wind is the same across the whole Atlantic, really?

As in the start of this race at Lisbon for example.  

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17 minutes ago, stief said:

Analysis of the drone footage of TTOP's gybe. Can't tell if the runner was left on deliberately or otherwise,

My guess is that they leave the old runner on for a short while to keep the main in control in the beginning (like the commentator says), but were slow to ease it once they actually needed the main to go over.....

 

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1 minute ago, NORBowGirl said:

My guess is that they leave the old runner on for a short while to keep the main in control in the beginning (like the commentator says), but were slow to ease it once they actually needed the main to go over.....

Makes sense. The written comments suggest a mistake, the audio otherwise. Thanks.

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2 hours ago, stief said:

Gonzalo posted a pic of showing 8 years of VOR routes (Part of a discussion with Libby and others about virtual waypoints). 

 

Nice find, happy to see that we are in good company giving advice to RC and that Gonzalo did act on the various tweets. Missed the Libby thread, my tweets with the CV advice were a reply to the 09:00 positon update by RC.

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2 minutes ago, stief said:

Makes sense. The written comments suggest a mistake, the audio otherwise. Thanks.

Well it's just a guess :)  My experience is that when I'm told to wait a little before I do something, I tend to wait too long :huh:   (what's "a little", is it two seconds, 10 seconds, 1 minute....)

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2 hours ago, stief said:

Gonzalo posted a pic of showing 8 years of VOR routes (Part of a discussion with Libby and others about virtual waypoints). 

 

It would be nice to have the same a bit more centered on the doldrums, as even the eastern routes seem to have passed the doldrums quite west.

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27 minutes ago, stief said:

Analysis of the drone footage of TTOP's gybe. Can't tell if the runner was left on deliberately or otherwise,

Looked OK ..think Conrad is stalking my posts with that video analysis. :-) It ended abruptly which made me wonder if the drone ran out juice and is now fish bait.

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Ouch: Niall mentions losers, then switches to Hayles. This VOR is OK with 'blunt' (or some other word)

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

if the drone ran out juice and is now fish bait.

Or the drone was taken by a fish that wanted to get even.

drone-fishing.jpg

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5 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't need a Virtual Game. I will always tell how I see it and people need to get used to it.

Honestly, to me it seems that you have not discovered yet to push the slider back as many hours as you did sleep. And than have a look at the data developing in front of your eyes. Me and many here would be grateful if you just think before you type. Thanks.

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2 hours ago, rogerfal said:

Okay how about we all make our recommendations for a good book about wind for Alinghi to read. Probably best in his native tongue whatever that is.

He can then go away and not come back until he has assimilated the knowledge within.

On the other hand perhaps we will miss his inane comments and regret sending him away.

Image result for meteorology for dummies

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11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

That fishing with drones is weird. In Asia the younger generation use them to drop explosives...I think because the older fisherman all blew themselves up.

I hope so, when diving around Bali and the Gili Islands this summer you could see the devastation with the dynamite fishing below in the reefs. 

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https://twitter.com/888markturner/status/928264783689867264

Mark Turner Retweeted Ian Walker

Agree - needs to be World Sailing Team of year at same level of importance if @WorldSailing is to cover whole sport not just dinghy sailing

Mark Turner added,

Ian Walker @ADORSkipper
Congrats @peteburling for winning the @worldsailing sailor of the year award but surely it should go to @EmiratesTeamNZ ? Time this changed
 
 
 
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2 hours ago, DtM said:

In the real world, not your strange fantasy world, the wind can be different metres apart never mind miles.  FFS, how many times do you need to be told.  do you think the wind is the same across the whole Atlantic, really?

Dead right DtM. I remember the first time I really saw & understood that. I would have been about 14 or 15 (yeah, I know bloody long time ago) on a Sherewater catamaran about 4-6 boat lengths behind an Osprey (17.5'double hander) identical courses opposite tacks both with sails filled and drawing.

No wonder our sport keeps us interested for a lifetime :-)

SS

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@jack Thought you'd be asleep by now.

Conditions this year sure looked good for a Cape Verde slalom, but look like all the teams bailed on that option. Even Mark Chisholm felt it strong enough that it needed to be  refuted this (my) morning.

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Stief yeah once they continued west of Maderia it became more the Verde Latitude Dash. Hope the compression ahead gives the back 3 another crack at joining in.

PS Dad's asleep holding a beer..I'm his 6 yo son Parrot. I'm the brains of the outfit.

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From the Front Page for those who don't ever visit:  

Over There

This week is quite an amazing one for the sport of sailing. First you had the Volvo Ocean Race take off out of Lisbon in spectacular fashion. They rocketed down the Tagus River and out into a stiff northerly breeze in the Atlantic. A couple of hours into the race the boats were sustaining a steady 20+ knots of boat speed with some surfs into the low 30’s. Just terrific sailing as they make their way to Cape Town, South Africa some 7,000 nautical miles away.

Further to the north the Transat Jacques Vabre got underway an hour after the Volvo start. This is one of the most iconic French races and is held every four years. There are 38 boats competing including three Ultime trimarans each a hundred feet in length. The Transat Jacques Vabre, or TJV as it’s known, is a double-handed race that started in Le Havre, France and will end in Salvador, Brazil. The race traces the route taken by the great merchant ships of the 17th century which departed the coffee-producing countries like Brazil, and headed to Le Havre which was at the time France’s leading coffee harbor. 

The competitors in the TJV also had some brisk conditions to deal with as they took off on a close reach which soon turned into stiff headwinds. My friend Boris Herrmann aboard Malizia II reported that they were experiencing “very fast sailing, very wet, full moon and we can see the closest competitors even at night. We pass each other scary close.” The course to Brazil is 4,350 miles and Seb Josse, the skipper of the newly launched Ultime Edmond De Rothschild predicts that it will take him and his co-skipper Thomas Rouxel just eight days to get to Brazil. If that happens he will knock around two full days off the current course record.

Speaking about Ultime trimarans. On Saturday the French sailor François Gabart set off in his attempt to break the single-handed, non-stop circumnavigation record currently held by fellow French sailor Thomas Coville. The start and finish is an imaginary line between the Créac’h lighthouse on Ouessant (Ushant) Island, France, and the Lizard Lighthouse on the southwest coast of England. Gabart’s ride for the record attempt is the 30-meter trimaran Macif. 

The key to any successful record attempt is getting the weather right for the first few days. You want a slingshot ride down to the equator and if you set out and the forecast does not come through most choose to return to port and try again. Two days into this trip it looks like Gabart and his weather team have got it right. Gabart is already well over 200 miles ahead of where Coville was at the same time during his record circumnavigation. The conditions are perfect. Twelve to fifteen knots from astern. The massive trimaran is loping along at a steady 29 knots of boat speed. Fingers crossed for a safe (and fast) circumnavigation.

While all is this has been taking place let’s not forget that the Mini Transat is also underway. The fleet of 78 boats are five days into the second leg of the race from the Canary Islands to Martinique in the Caribbean. They are sailing in the exact same trade wind conditions as François Gabart on Macif. Champagne sailing it’s called but champagne or not crossing an ocean on a 21 foot boat is no easy task.

With all of this incredible sailing going on I have to ask the obvious question. How come it’s all going on “over there?” This side of the Atlantic things are all packed up for the winter. There is very little, if any, coverage of these events in the mainstream media and I guess that’s because there is very little, if any, interest from the public. Those hardened enthusiasts like myself are glued to the various race trackers and watched the Volvo Ocean Race and TJV starts streaming live so we are getting news but it’s a pity that the only bit of sailing news on TV here is about  those two lost ding dong’s and their dogs. – Brian Hancock.

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

From the Front Page for those who don't ever visit:  

Pretty good summary: even understated  (Actual's west about effort is also happening). The pressure to have a single tracker for all these races and media is getting stronger. Don't know how long all the parochial interests will be able to hold out. 

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11 minutes ago, stief said:

Too funny. Cape "Having Pete Buriing on your crew is like having Mick Jagger in your garage band"  and more 

Peter might be the world male sailor of the year.
Marit is female sailor of the year.
Only, she stays in Laser Radial and is not in the VOR.
5a03265da1eba_MaritBouwmeesterWorldSailoroftheyear.PNG.83bdb45749cf33848664ecb834c647d9.PNG
Interesting detail : Simeon Tienpont liked this tweet.
Do these skippers have nothing to do aboard?
Tweeting al the time like they are at home?

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

German actually..as per my UBoat post above Woger or are you on the piss again using free WiFi at the pub??...btw posting here with authenticty but without offending Herman and the Merkel crowd here are rules I will adhere to.

No, electrickery today - need to earn the beans for going to the pub.

Got the U-boat reference but I'm thinking he speaks some other language not known to most of us..

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3 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

Why, do you think I'd be good at it? :):):)

We'll see how your getting on after 6 months of trying to be polite to the village idiot.:lol:

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16 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

Peter might be the world male sailor of the year.
Marit is female sailor of the year.
Only, she stays in Laser Radial and is not in the VOR.
5a03265da1eba_MaritBouwmeesterWorldSailoroftheyear.PNG.83bdb45749cf33848664ecb834c647d9.PNG
Interesting detail : Simeon Tienpont liked this tweet.
Do these skippers have nothing to do aboard?
Tweeting al the time like they are at home?

Pray tell how would skippers access twitter offshore? 

Basically every team has a social media communications manager. They're the ones posting content and republishing information from the OA. No information goes to or off the boat without OA. It is basically a captive communication structure. 

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20 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

Marit is female sailor of the year.
Interesting detail : Simeon Tienpont liked this tweet.

Already known

Already covered long ago upthread. (search for  "Crew Communicator" in the tweets)

So, no point added.

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VOR:  Any chance of overlaying Gitana's track for a few days or so?  Approximately 160 miles behind Scally atm.

Screen Shot 2017-11-08 at 4.08.35 PM.png

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Heads up for those who like Volodia's work: he posted a link to an updated and approved plug-in in the tracker thread

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10 minutes ago, stief said:

updated and approved plug-in

Updated Nov 5.  I think I already have that one.

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Same here--Version: 1.0.4 (not sure if google automatically updates; didn't check before updating manually). Best news is  VOR approval.

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4 hours ago, rogerfal said:

Okay how about we all make our recommendations for a good book about wind for Alinghi to read. Probably best in his native tongue whatever that is.

He can then go away and not come back until he has assimilated the knowledge within.

On the other hand perhaps we will miss his inane comments and regret sending him away.

This is one brilliant idea. So here's the deal, @Alinghi4ever. Get this book, it's really good, it's in German, a language you should understand, and read it first to last page. And then read it again. And only then come back to this forum.

https://www.amazon.de/Wetter-auf-See-Ralf-Brauner/dp/3884124870/

And here's the special deal, just for you: I'll buy you this book if you follow your promise, which you did over in the AC forum, to bugger off of SA for good. Klingt verlockend?

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Direct off Team Brunel from skipper Bouwe Bekking:

After 3 days on the water we get more in the routine and some are catching up on some lack of sleep, not easy to wake up some  of them. Annie , Kyle and Carlo, you have to shake hard to get the any reaction. Most having big rashes around their neck's, because of wearing the entire time the foulweather gear who have tight rubber seals around neck and arms, but their bodies are dry! So several creams are coming out, it still seems the simple disenfection spray from katanteach is doing the best job. All our hands are now worn out and losing skin and first cracks start appearing. Also here different philosophies and tricks. From really fat sheep cream, to just washing hand in fresh water. Several style of gloves have appread as well, wait and see which track is going best. We have set ourselves west of the fleet, just scallywag a tiny more bit west. Over the next 24 hours the breeze will get lighter, lets see if our tactics if our tactics is paying off. WE JUST HAVE TO BE PATIENT!  Clouds are already coming into play, last night we had for two hours wind from 120 direction and down to just 12 knots. That are the moments where you know the next postion report can be painful, as others might still sail in same breeze. 


THE NEWS: Peter Burling wasn't very fuzzed about winning the trophy for sailor of the year, of course a great accomplishment, he is more occupied with how we can catch the others. Abby is busy sealing some leaks who have, the pumps for the hydraulics was pissing water through and as well one of the engagement button for the winches, that are often the areas  who after using them a lot start leaking, just means bailing a bit. As i speak a sudden drop to 7 knots of wind, have to go.

To Bouwe:  Channel Grease is the best.  Stays on for marathon swimmers doing triple channel crossings.

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Today's "From the boats".

Martin Keruzore/Volvo Ocean Race

13_02_171108_VEH_MTK_00613.jpg.6d50610f2fca1dc3d2b0f933e05745d5.jpg

Ugo Fonolla/Volvo Ocean Race

13_02_171108_MPF_UGF_00054.jpg.49d61bab0520fa9c13e55eb268db1db6.jpg

Jeremie Lecaudey/Volvo Ocean Race

13_02_171108_DFG_JRL_00105.jpg.c08db2304234b64fcf3d2a5818693530.jpg

Konrad Frost/Volvo Ocean Race

13_02_171108_SHK_KFR_00239.jpg.a5cc201afa61f84b6ef6f5f865cef25c.jpg

Let's see what the Caption Kings come up with...

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7 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Today's "From the boats".Jeremie Lecaudey/Volvo Ocean Race

13_02_171108_DFG_JRL_00105.jpg.c08db2304234b64fcf3d2a5818693530.jpg

"MRW when people think I look like Charles Caudrelier"

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4 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

What is the significance of the CAPE index please?

Convective Available Potential Energy. It measures the bouyancy of an air parcel. In other words: instability, thuntherstorms possibility.

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Read the Wikipedia page on CAPE.  The buoyancy / energy potential is what drives local wind variation (clouds / squalls).  The local wind is superimposed on the macro-scale / gradient wind (driven by the atmospheric pressure gradients) that you see in the GRIBs / Windy weather forecast. The forecast looks smooth across the playing field but the local / cloud driven wind creates all those holes, puffs and direction changes.

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14 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

What is the significance of the CAPE index please?

As Breitling and Kenny say. btw, you can also just click on the link (CAPE) in my post to play around with the different weather layers and times. Nice view of ocean currents too, if you want to see where a team might try to catch a boost across.  Cheers.

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26 minutes ago, Breitling said:

Convective Available Potential Energy. It measures the bouyancy of an air parcel. In other words: instability, thuntherstorms possibility.

Thanks.

So looking at the CAPE chart above I guess the grey areas are relatively stable. Buoyancy presumably refers to heated and rapidly rising parcels of air which also cool as they rise and therefore create the instability?

Perhaps I should get a copy of weather for dummies..

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7 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

So looking at the CAPE chart above I guess the grey areas are relatively stable.

That's right.  Cape index 0 - 2500 stable to moderate.  3500+ = bad.  Good for predicting lightning strikes.

Screen Shot 2017-11-08 at 6.30.38 PM.png

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Roger: almost, but the instability is due to the buoyancy potential, not air cooled and coming back down.  It's the fact that the warm / wet surface air is fundamentally instable, which means that once it starts to lift, it becomes even more bouyant due to the higher density (cool, dry) air above it.

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