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southerncross

VOR Leg 2 Lisbon to Cape Town

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25 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

and some more nudity. Enjoy

Speaking of nudity, I noted this on the daily show. A picture can say more than a thousand words. Seems like an all hands on deck pronto when grinding on bare feet and wearing only shorts and a bra. She did not mind what the Vestas crew or us thought of it, boat first. Hats off for her attitude!

 

Schermafdruk 2017-11-12 17.01.44.png

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11 minutes ago, Herman said:

Speaking of nudity, I noted this on the daily show. A picture can say more than a thousand words. Seems like an all hands on deck pronto when grinding on bare feet and wearing only shorts and a bra. She did not mind what the Vestas crew or us thought of it, boat first. Hats off for her attitude!

 

Kind of you to say Herman, but these are professional racers. I would not expect any different from these women. They are equal to the men and equally indifferent to their appearance on board. Just as it should be in my humble opinion. 

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35 minutes ago, Herman said:

Speaking of nudity, I noted this on the daily show. A picture can say more than a thousand words. Seems like an all hands on deck pronto when grinding on bare feet and wearing only shorts and a bra. She did not mind what the Vestas crew or us thought of it, boat first. Hats off for her attitude!

 

Schermafdruk 2017-11-12 17.01.44.png

It’s a sports top, not a bra :) so it’s not really underwear, and most girls are not very private about them. It’s more like a bikini top, but for sports. You could walk around the dock in it, but not with a bra. 

 

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7 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

It’s a sports top, not a bra :) so it’s not really underwear, and most girls are not very private about them. It’s more like a bikini top, but for sports. You could walk around the dock in it, but not with a bra. 

 

I’m beginning to wonder if some here have any interaction with women at all?

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8 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

t’s a sports top, not a bra :) so it’s not really underwear, and most girls are not very private about them. It’s more like a bikini top, but for sports. You could walk around the dock in it, but not with a bra.

It's a strange business which I can't pretend to understand :mellow:

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

It is easy to put aside leadership difficulties and inexperience when the team exceeds expectations. Two weeks in? Tired frustration lack of team building can really turn the boat toxic. 

Hope that isn't the case. Many boat crews have left or been left at the dock in Cape Town. 

 

1 hour ago, southerncross said:

That and introduction of different personalities.

 ...what puts these comments beyond the realm of speculguess?  :unsure:

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11 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

It's a strange business which I can't pretend to understand :mellow:

....#2 to 'meaning of the universe'.   :unsure:

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18 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

...what puts these comments beyond the realm of speculguess?

Nothing.  But what is being inferred?  What choices were made?

The OBR might have decided to just show Tienport and crew with the "Stay level, moving on"  attitude.  And that would have been that.  Clean, polished and scrubbed.  Instead he chose to include an opposing view and better demonstrated the current crew dynamic that was contibuting to their position in the fleet.

Hats off to this raw material. We would not have gotten such candid, realistic insight in the past. 

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2 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

....#2 to 'meaning of the universe'.   :unsure:

ultimately yes.. movin on...

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12 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

It's a strange business which I can't pretend to understand :mellow:

There must be some male garments we girls don’t get, also...

like, a man in my crew got his testicles turned the wrong way or something, after a bumpy race. Sounds like something that can easily happen so you have stuff to avoid it? 

Oh well. I was baffled. Maybe I haven’t interacted enough with men....? (To know about this particular problem)

 

 

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1 minute ago, Alinghi4ever said:

But wait....according to Mr jack_sparrow we are not in the Trades.

Once again he is wrong. Now who is the real cunt here. Mr. Clown Sparrow.

As predicted if the wind doesn't come directly from astern DF is losing out to MAPFRE. The Spaniards seem to have a better sail-configuration for these sort of conditions. That's what we saw in Leg 1 as well and that's what we will see throughout this Race.

They are asymmetrical. 

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1 minute ago, NORBowGirl said:

There must be some male garments we girls don’t get, also...

like, a man in my crew got his testicles turned the wrong way or something, after a bumpy race. Sounds like something that can easily happen so you have stuff to avoid it? 

Oh well. I was baffled. Maybe I haven’t interacted enough with men....? (To know about this particular problem)

It's not good when we sit on them awkwardly in the heat of battle hence the reason we also have sports underwear to keep it all safely gathered in..:lol:

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3 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

But wait....according to Mr jack_sparrow we are not in the Trades.

Once again he is wrong. Now who is the real cunt here. Mr. Clown Sparrow.

As predicted if the wind doesn't come directly from astern DF is losing out to MAPFRE. The Spaniards seem to have a better sail-configuration for these sort of conditions. That's what we saw in Leg 1 as well and that's what we will see throughout this Race.

Not being funny but do you have aspergers. 

In any case I think you will find the TWA is forward of the beam just now.

 

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1 minute ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Yes, but if you watched the Footage from the Leg 2 Start outside of Lisbon MAPFRE was the only Team who had 3 Sails up.

I pick MAPFRE to win this Leg.

They will crash gybe if th....oh, who am I kidding. 

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5 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Yes, but if you watched the Footage from the Leg 2 Start outside of Lisbon MAPFRE was the only Team who had 3 Sails up.

I pick MAPFRE to win this Leg.

You may well be correct to say MAPFRE will win the leg.

From subsequent footage and photographs you may have noticed that other boats have also flown three head sails at times.

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24 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

 

 ...what puts these comments beyond the realm of speculguess?  :unsure:

Nothing. Except there's been multiple videos of Nico looking down and Salter bitching and moaning. I can't speak for anyone else, but my exp with teamwork? Sometimes ppl need to vent, but you vent to the right person who'll either listen and keep it quiet - or a venting session amongst crew so it is in the open and can be resolved. Venting to OBR? Not my idea of a healthy relationship.

And to be frank, Brad, Salter and Joca go way way back, and keep returning to each other's company. You don't walk away from that Akzo situation in Alicante without processing it and it affecting you.

And as in prior editions, equator crossing legs are the ones where ppl get fired or walk away at the dock. It has always been that way. Navigators, bowmen, trimmers, even skippers.

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

Nothing. Except there's been multiple videos of Nico looking down and Salter bitching and moaning. I can't speak for anyone else, but my exp with teamwork? Sometimes ppl need to vent, but you vent to the right person who'll either listen and keep it quiet - or a venting session amongst crew so it is in the open and can be resolved. Venting to OBR? Not my idea of a healthy relationship.

 

And to be frank, Brad, Salter and Joca go way way back, and keep returning to each other's company. You don't walk away from that Akzo situation in Alicante without processing it and it affecting you.

Agree. And you vent and get over it.  Put it aside and move on with the race that requires micro movements to win.

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6 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Agree. And you vent and get over it.  Put it aside and move on with the race that requires micro movements to win.

Agree, easier said then done though, especially if contained on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic, will be interesting to see how they go on. 

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3 minutes ago, stief said:

^^ Funny. That was theme of the sermon this morning from the VOR

That's a nice one - thanks for posting.

I think every boat's personalities is being shown quicker with the OBRs - while in previous years you find out more at the docks or while talking to crew. There are always "manly men" who try to pretend boat emotions don't matter - but there's been boats I've been on, not even a week long event, where I wouldn't feel comfortable bluntly commenting/providing advice on trim, because the person currently working the winch is cranky and won't take any advice from anyone other than the skipper. And if I have to diplomatically work in the communication so the person gets it - that's just wasted time and lost yards.

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16 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I think every boat's personalities is being shown quicker with the OBRs - while in previous years you find out more at the docks or while talking to crew. There are always "manly men" who try to pretend boat emotions don't matter - but there's been boats I've been on, not even a week long event, where I wouldn't feel comfortable bluntly commenting/providing advice on trim, because the person currently working the winch is cranky and won't take any advice from anyone other than the skipper. And if I have to diplomatically work in the communication so the person gets it - that's just wasted time and lost yards.

Agree. Young rising stars vs old dog hanging in there competitions can be tough too. Adding gender to the mix, there's also the dynamic between Liz and Dee on TTOP. They were throwing around the word 'mutiny' a few days ago,  all 'in good fun' mode. Maybe? Wondered too if spanish machismo was going to be a problem Sophie (figured she'd already mastered the southern hemisphere version). 

Reading the gender discussion with great interest.  thanks to the skills of Elisa, Rennie and Norbowgirl.

Figured that was part of your legitimate  specuguessing. (Good term, couch). And thanks for taking the time to expand on your sources.

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59 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

But wait....according to Mr jack_sparrow we are not in the Trades.

Once again he is wrong. Now who is the real cunt here. Mr. Clown Sparrow.

As predicted if the wind doesn't come directly from astern DF is losing out to MAPFRE. The Spaniards seem to have a better sail-configuration for these sort of conditions. That's what we saw in Leg 1 as well and that's what we will see throughout this Race.

...please remain consistant with....

 1-- ignoring those you are ignoring.

2-- your medications.   :mellow:

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8 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Why has Dongfeng Race Team to lose all the time :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Not fair.

That's because they're not playing with the 'ready-about Lee ho' correctly :-)

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Wednesday ~12 UTC. Red dot is  25 south, 35 west. High pressure moving east right between low pressure system moving along the southern ocean. 

Gutsy move would be to turn left ahead of the high pressure, beat upwind briefly, and get ahead of the low pressure. Safe move is to stay west longer until the high pressure is eastward - and gybe downwind home - hopefully there isn't a high pressure sitting off Cape Town.

Looking at the weather reports for past 2 weeks, and looking ahead at predictions for a week - pattern is still 2-3 days between low pressure fronts, but every 4-5 days a high pressure sits off Cape Town. Have fun!

123.thumb.png.7887da22b754aab93aa0a7896725fe03.png

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45 minutes ago, southerncross said:

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/2104.htm

Vestas/SciFi lead boats firmly in the trades.

Yes progressively less pressure down the order.

SciFi explains the current situation well, specifically the transition from the ITCZ to the south east trades....

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12 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Why has Dongfeng Race Team to lose all the time :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Not fair.

Perhaps it's because they are trimmed for upwind sailing as per your previous post. I'm sure Charles would appreciate your analysis.

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I'm only here to see if Dee can beat Witty.  Looking good.

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TTOP (OBR Sam & Liz) using Facebook to get text off the boat Link 

Quote

Liz Wardley's pre-bed update (warning: she's in a dark mood)

I'm planted at my media desk and Liz is sitting next to me at the nav desk when I learn over and ask for an update.

"No," she says. "I'm in a dark mood."

"C'mon" I push.

"I'm going to bed." she says.

"Why are you in a dark mood?"

"I'm tired and I need to sleep. That's the truth... And we're just going through all these squalls. And it seems like we're not getting up to speed and I'm worried we're losing ground on the fleet."

Our polars are in the mid 90s and boat speed only in the mid 11s. Dee is on the helm and it seems no one wants to tell her.

"Also, we don't seem to be pushing as much for VMG," she adds.

"What else?"

"That's it. We've got 12 hours till we deploy the drifter buoy for NOAA. 24 hour to the equator. Herbie, our hydrogenerator is down and pumping in 12 amps. Barney's hemorrhoids have cleared up." She laughs. "And the inside of the boat smells like poo."

Regrettably true.

The mood onboard is subdued and there's a general bit of confusion about the doldrums. The wind is out of the Southeast now and we're sailing upwind on course- that's first giveaway that you're out and on the other side of the doldrums.

No one wants to jinx it, but are we out - and did we even go through them in the first place?

"Potentially we're out, but you never really know," says Dee.

Yesterday morning Dee remarked about how in the past on this leg you'd only need your foul weather gear for one, maybe two days of this leg. This time there's only been one or two days where we haven't needed them. At least it's been fast.

I'm told the next week of this leg is a bit like groundhog day. Straight upwind sailing in this exact breeze. The scientific drifter buoy and Neptune's visit will break that up a bit, but let's see if cabin fever doesn't strike by the end of the week.

Sam Greenfield

 

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1 minute ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Upwind or Downwind it doesn't matter. They are too slow for my liking.

You still haven't got your head around reaching yet........

Amazing that they have been in the lead for the past few days...

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3 hours ago, Elisa said:

^^ Energy very low on AN, by the look of it not so sure if Nico is the guy turning it around... he looks like he is counting the days till Cape Town and would really surprise me if he steps on board again for leg 3. Hope the rest of the crew keeps it together and can keep pushing. Results this leg so far nothing to be ashamed of, don't know what expectations were but steady top 4-5 is doing all right in most books. 

They've gone from 3rd to 5th by having two boats sail past them. That's bound to make competitive sailors grumpy.

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TTOP video timed 19.37 in the raw feed.

Some humour and brill, women who pee of the back of the boat - proper sailors.

Respect

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My apologies for prematurely introducing the Fake Tradewinds.  I got confused by those N-S reaching conditions when I should have been thinking about the difference between those and E-W-E reaching.

Looks like the fast lane along the front in a few days is narrow and will keep the fleet from diverging much.  

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The unfiltered raw content is absolutely brilliant. It tells you the real inside story, without the marketingfilter. :)

As for Dongfeng, how hard is it to constantly lead the fleet? I wonder if Mapfre prefers to be second for now, just wanting to stay close but let the Donger play it its cards first. It is of course good to be in the lead but you don't want be there too early. Defending is probably harder than chasing. Any thoughts?

 

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4 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

My apologies for prematurely introducing the Fake Tradewinds.  I got confused by those N-S reaching conditions when I should have been thinking about the difference between those and E-W-E reaching.

Looks like the fast lane along the front in a few days is narrow and will keep the fleet from diverging much.  

Ali will be very pleased to see you have grasped his concept!! I'm afraid I haven't!

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3 minutes ago, Elisa said:

The unfiltered raw content is absolutely brilliant. It tells you the real inside story, without the marketingfilter. :)

As for Dongfeng, how hard is it to constantly lead the fleet? I wonder if Mapfre prefers to be second for now, just wanting to stay close but let the Donger play it its cards first. It is of course good to be in the lead but you don't want be there too early. Defending is probably harder than chasing. Any thoughts?

 

Defending is exhausting and introduces a special kind of paranoia...if the boat behind is close.....

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4 minutes ago, Elisa said:

As for Dongfeng, how hard is it to constantly lead the fleet? I wonder if Mapfre prefers to be second for now, just wanting to stay close but let the Donger play it its cards first. It is of course good to be in the lead but you don't want be there too early. Defending is probably harder than chasing. Any thoughts?

Well I suppose they could drop down to them and close cover all the way to CapeTown - What a stress that would be.

Sorry, being silly and in any case MAPF might be just bow forward now relative to the TWA

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8 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

 I got confused by those N-S reaching conditions when I should have been thinking about the difference between those and E-W-E reaching.

Liz (and others) too: "there's a general bit of confusion about the doldrums."

 

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9 minutes ago, Elisa said:

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/2120.html

For those studying the concept of sportbras :P

Too, at a skipper's presser (Lisbon, Alicante? ) on the topic of new-to-offshore personal packing lists, Dee made a joke about some members not needing a bra. 

[edit] found it. Lisbon, presser https://youtu.be/s-vRjfGOX4Y?t=1297 (someone (Witty?) makes a sudocream response)

 

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Had to find another satellite to get surface winds between South America and Africa, not much to go on but I found one to get the though crowd on SA happy. The US Navy has a bird up via the Naval Research Lab with the SSMI. The Special Sensor Microwave Imager (SSM/I) is a satellite passive microwave radiometer.  Overlay also with  latest GFS 13UTC GRIB and 1900 UTC positions. Hope the navigators zoom in on that archipel/rock which they are heading for.

Those grey areas are mostly fuckups in the picture (bad data link whatever) and not representing surface wind below 5 kts.

 

Zoom (4).jpg

big picture.jpg

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23 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Yes and No. Abu Dhabi Ocean Racing took the lead shortly before the Equator in Leg 1 of the  14/15 Race and held on all the way into Cape Town. So, it can be done but not with these guys & girls on Dongers I suspect.

The question was not if it can be done or not.

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Thanks again Herman. Good to see the sat map data (thought the dead bands indicate where the satellite passes didn't overlap, as was the case in the early windsat efforts).

Anyway, love this irony. Predict wind just sent out an email that seemed applicable to much of the thread

5a08b805dda5f_ScreenShot2017-11-12at3_06_22PM.png.fb4728038d951775c77b39954282a8f2.png

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13 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Just like testicles...:rolleyes::P

....and neither can’t handle things from straight astern....?

 

sorry, that was terrible. 

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1 hour ago, rogerfal said:

TTOP video timed 19.37 in the raw feed.

Some humour and brill, women who pee of the back of the boat - proper sailors.

Respect

Can't find it... So maybe it was too good for PC police

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3 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

....and neither can’t handle things from straight astern....?

 

sorry, that was terrible. 

Some on here do ...... or should .... LOL :lol:

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49 minutes ago, Elisa said:

The unfiltered raw content is absolutely brilliant. It tells you the real inside story, without the marketingfilter. :)

As for Dongfeng, how hard is it to constantly lead the fleet? I wonder if Mapfre prefers to be second for now, just wanting to stay close but let the Donger play it its cards first. It is of course good to be in the lead but you don't want be there too early. Defending is probably harder than chasing. Any thoughts?

 

So I don't think they will slow down on purpose at least. That's almost never a good idea. Being second usually forces you to either follow the leader or taking the second best option

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37 minutes ago, LeoV said:

What... are they microwaving the Earth ?

 

Not just that, next year Aeolus will laser it too. 
LIDAR doppler measurements of the atmosphere.

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2 hours ago, Miffy said:

https://twitter.com/RaceExperts/status/929734565329014786

Nice to see an older Race Expert who knows the history, talks about it - and not making up suspense re direct upwind to Cape Town.

As this older Dutchman in RC has done the Whitbread 3 times, I’m not too surprised :D

His name is Peter Tans.

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51 minutes ago, LeoV said:

What... are they microwaving the Earth ?

Hence the global warming Leo :rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, DFL1010 said:

Recent-ish scatterometry data of where the fleet is:

(At 1900 DF was at 03N, 028.5W)

Thanks--was looking for that, and the info in the Note.

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56 minutes ago, Chasm said:

 

Not just that, next year Aeolus will laser it too. 
LIDAR doppler measurements of the atmosphere.

Poor Earth, end of times I say you....

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(2/2)

I however suspect a more southerly route, as this routing is based off some very favourable conditions in the southern ocean:

vyTwbn4.png

Very well timed, but the time of this is Mon 20th - a bit too far out to be high likelihood.

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Thanks. Wonder if the high in your first route is the one Bouwe mentions in the vid SC posted just above. 

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Routing more than five days is optimistic , though there are hundreds of years of data to predict trends. Will be interesting to watch divergence out of the equator. TTOP seems willing to roll the dice 

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4 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

My apologies for prematurely introducing the Fake Tradewinds. 

There is nothing to forgive my son. You are a man who speaks your truth quietly and clearly; listens to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; as they too have their story. There are many here who are loud, aggressive, and vexatious in spirit who must be avoided. That is all, peace be with you.

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Been out most of the day visiting a prospective college for the youngest.  Glad I missed a lot of the tradewinds banter though!

Some interesting takes.  Yesterday Df and co did better than yesterdays routing would have suggested.  Today's solutions looks like a complete 180 from yesterday, adding four days or so. Again, though, remember there is a five day reality cap to all of this.  

Finally the southern part of the course is starting to get really dynamic.

VOR 2 day comp.JPG

wind.JPG

leg2 Sat18th.JPG

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The challenge really is making the decision to try and jump in front of the high pressure, upwind until you can join the low pressure. Skipper needs to commit and stick with it, or stay with the safer option of keeping high pressure east and find the low pressure south. And if the timing is off - it'll be q long high pressure/upwind slog where the navigator and skipper will be hiding from the frustrated crew all the way to Cape Town. 

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No Miffy, you have it all wrong. It is about Mapfre finding a way to sail West to East or East to West, because somebody has conclusively shown they are faster than the others when going in that direction....:D

It's going to be hard to steel a march on the others unless they go to stealth mode or manage something under the cover of darkness. With the distance between DF and Mapfre, they can probably see each other even at night (of course they can see each other on AIS).

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3 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

See each other, they can bloody well hear each other. 

maybe after 7.5 days at sea, the first clue that a boat is near is the smell!:wacko:

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Well not much change at the update. Still got around 120nm to the Equator for the leaders and new inductees get their Neptune welcome. Capey has changed the Paintwagon line to come  left in behind and dropped back a tad accordingly. Witty and Dee converging so they might be planning an Equator raft up. Challenging times in the nav department up ahead.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

There is nothing to forgive my son. You are a man who speaks your truth quietly and clearly; listens to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; as they too have their story. There are many here who are loud, aggressive, and vexatious in spirit who must be avoided. That is all, peace be with you.

Fuck off Jack ;-)

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