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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
southerncross

VOR Leg 2 Lisbon to Cape Town

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Love Liz Wardley but wonder how her simulation of taking a dump off the stern never rose to the same level of offensiveness for many or even mentioned.

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

Love Liz Wardley but wonder how her simulation of taking a dump off the stern never rose to the same level of offensiveness for many or even mentioned.

So you were offended?

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Back on track, any sightings of the the crew?? 

 

Can’t believe they’re all in hiding over this, maybe there’s more to this?

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Just now, random said:

So you were offended?

Boat talk. Not me personally but I think it was as crass as the scrotum joke and if there is a standard to be raised then this should be included.  

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Just now, mad said:

Back on track, any sightings of the the crew?? 

 

Can’t believe they’re all in hiding over this, maybe there’s more to this?

One of the crew from Azko flew home.  I didn't know they were allowed to do this?  I thought there were booked in PR events.  Maybe more left as well.

Also, think that they give some privacy after being under the Raw microscope for two weeks.

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5 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Boat talk. Not me personally but I think it was as crass as the scrotum joke and if there is a standard to be raised then this should be included.  

At this rate there’ll be no raw feed from the boats unless it’s been completely sanitised by a committee. 

Be careful what you wish for. 

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Boat talk. Not me personally but I think it was as crass as the scrotum joke and if there is a standard to be raised then this should be included.  

You see that's where this subject is different.  As soon as you want to include a female example you risk being seen as a Trump.  Perhaps even misogynistic.  There is no logic to an emotional argument, there is no future in taking that line.

I had a women crew member who told us how she only liked really big dicks and given normal male insecurities, we were careful not to be remotely measured while taking a piss off the back in cold weather.  Harassment?

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Just now, mad said:

At this rate there’ll be no raw feed from the boats unless it’s been completely sanitised by a committee. 

Be careful what you wish for. 

I don't wish for it at all.   I think the whole thing is overblown.  Just a double standard I'm pointing out.

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7 minutes ago, southerncross said:

One of the crew from Azko flew home.  I didn't know they were allowed to do this?  I thought there were booked in PR events.  Maybe more left as well.

Also, think that they give some privacy after being under the Raw microscope for two weeks.

One the TTOP flew back as well I think, to go and see his newborn child...... which seems to be a damn good reason in my opinion. 

At the end of they day, they all signed up to race, not be part of a social experiment, maybe Witty had a point after all. 

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Just now, mad said:

One the TTOP flew back as well I think, to go and see his newborn child...... which seems to be a damn good reason in my opinion. 

Oops.  That's the one.  Nico.  Maybe a special circumstance.

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Bianca and Dee on being "one of the boys."

On 2017-11-21 at 11:21 AM, stief said:

Dee Caffari (DC): Ok, Bianca Cook. You come from super yachts.  So you’re doing the Volvo Ocean Race having done tens of thousands of miles on super yachts. Most people would therefore think that you’re a blonde, pretty stewardess, and you’ve actively make sure that isn’t the case. So tell us how you’ve gone about that because it’s quite impressive.

Bianca Cook (BC): I’ve definitely made sure that’s not the case. I’m definitely not one of those ‘below deck’ motor-yachties (laughs). I started working on J Classes, and I’ve always worked outside in the exterior. I’ve kind of made a point of proving that I’m always capable of being one of the boys. I worked my way up the ranks and on my last boat I was a second officer - so I was in charge of all the safety equipment, maintenance – basically there was a team of five guys and I was the only girl. So I kind of worked my way up the ranks and got my officer of the watch and have been working on only sailing boats. The last sailing boat that I worked on was a 220’ carbon fiber classic.

From a week ago, of course. Worth a reread methinks. Seems Dee is navigating the PC weather right, and giving Bianca a helpful hand.

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A rather sanctimonious post from Brian. Unfortunately, the footage coming off the boats will now be even more vanilla/censored (if that's possible). I could care less about seeing one more 4m swell roll into the cockpit and splash a grinder, or a sunset... FFS... the colourful personalities, offensive or not, are what made any of the video even remotely worthwhile (and shots of the boat set-up and bow/pit work, I guess). Bummer.   

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3 minutes ago, random said:

You see that's where this subject is different.  As soon as you want to include a female example you risk being seen as a Trump.  Perhaps even misogynistic.  There is no logic to an emotional argument, there is no future in taking that line.

I had a women crew member who told us how she only liked really big dicks and given normal male insecurities, we were careful not to be remotely measured while taking a piss off the back in cold weather.  Harassment?

It depends on the context. Did it just come out of nowhere or was it a natural part of a conversation? 

I don’t think that’s harassment anyway, just very insensitive and I guess it didn’t make her very popular. People who say things like that portrays them selves as shallow.  

 

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1 minute ago, NORBowGirl said:

It depends on the context. Did it just come out of nowhere or was it a natural part of a conversation? 

I don’t think that’s harassment anyway, just very insensitive and I guess it didn’t make her very popular. People who say things like that portrays them selves as shallow.  

 

Was part of a conversation that in context does not make it any better.  Her loss, word got around of course and she got no sex at all.  No one wanted to risk a 'fail'. :lol:

But that is not the point.  It's a one sided argument that is best recognised as that.  Any attempts at come-backs or comparison just makes it worse.  That's not a judgement on either side, just the nature of issues like this one. 

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3 minutes ago, random said:

Was part of a conversation that in context does not make it any better.  Her loss, word got around of course and she got no sex at all.  No one wanted to risk a 'fail'. :lol:

But that is not the point.  It's a one sided argument that is best recognised as that.  Any attempts at come-backs or comparison just makes it worse.  That's not a judgement on either side, just the nature of issues like this one. 

Are you sober today, by the way? ;) 

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She was single and was looking for a relationship.  I was not talking about the situation on the boat.  No one in the entire Club ecosystem was game or even interested in someone who would say that.

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1 minute ago, NORBowGirl said:

It depends on the context. Did it just come out of nowhere or was it a natural part of a conversation? 

I don’t think that’s harassment anyway, just very insensitive and I guess it didn’t make her very popular. People who say things like that portrays them selves as shallow.  

 

Adding to this, time and place has a a lot to do with appropriates and sensitivity, I think.

Bringing this stuff up at church, in a board meeting or in a job interview probably would cause hernias.  But in some extreme conditions and environments such as offshore sailing when all you do is eat, sleep, grind, trim and shit for weeks on end, doused by endlessly by cold heavy water, battered, bruised - when you haven't showered and smell like ass and the food tastes like ass - a joke, any remote stab at humor, becomes a welcome bit of relief.  

2 minutes ago, random said:

She was single and was looking for a relationship.  I was not talking about the situation on the boat.  No one in the entire Club ecosystem was game or even interested in someone who would say that.

Everyone in the club had a small dick?

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Just now, southerncross said:

 

Everyone in the club had a small dick?

So you have a big one?

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3 minutes ago, random said:

She was single and was looking for a relationship.  I was not talking about the situation on the boat.  No one in the entire Club ecosystem was game or even interested in someone who would say that.

So nobody had....ok, let’s not go there :) 

i meant, are you sober right now, you are writing several sentences and not just asking questions. It’s a compliment. 

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3 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Adding to this, time and place has a a lot to do with appropriates and sensitivity, I think.

Bringing this stuff up at church, in a board meeting or in a job interview probably would cause hernias.  But in some extreme conditions and environments such as offshore sailing when all you do is eat, sleep, grind, trim and shit for weeks on end, doused by endlessly by cold heavy water, battered, bruised - when you haven't showered and smell like ass and the food tastes like ass - a joke, any remote stab at humor, becomes a welcome bit of relief.  

 

And body functions and rashes are very real in that environment. 

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8 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Adding to this, time and place has a a lot to do with appropriates and sensitivity, I think.

Bringing this stuff up at church, in a board meeting or in a job interview probably would cause hernias.  But in some extreme conditions and environments such as offshore sailing when all you do is eat, sleep, grind, trim and shit for weeks on end, doused by endlessly by cold heavy water, battered, bruised - when you haven't showered and smell like ass and the food tastes like ass - a joke, any remote stab at humor, becomes a welcome bit of relief.  

Exactly this, there are very few things that I have not made a joke about at times of stress. It’s called Gallows humour, and is a very normal human reaction. 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Exactly this, there are very things that I have not made a joke about at times of stress. It’s called Gallows humour, and is a very normal human reaction. 

Also, usually you've burned through all the good jokes in the first few days.

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All valid comments about the on-board culture.  Some fail to understand that it does not translate to a global audience.

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1 minute ago, random said:

All valid comments about the on-board culture.  Some fail to understand that it does not translate to a global audience.

True.  I wonder what cosmonaut humor is like?  

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13 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

So nobody had....ok, let’s not go there :) 

Didn't want her to see mine ... I'm married.

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6 minutes ago, southerncross said:

True.  I wonder what cosmonaut humor is like?  

Like all Russian humor, mostly about what happens after a bottle of vodka? ;)

probably also about the digestive system, must be weird. 

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Adding to this, time and place has a a lot to do with appropriates and sensitivity, I think.

Bringing this stuff up at church, in a board meeting or in a job interview probably would cause hernias.  But in some extreme conditions and environments such as offshore sailing when all you do is eat, sleep, grind, trim and shit for weeks on end, doused by endlessly by cold heavy water, battered, bruised - when you haven't showered and smell like ass and the food tastes like ass - a joke, any remote stab at humor, becomes a welcome bit of relief.  

Everyone in the club had a small dick?

Agreed......

As NBG said.... bum / scrotum chafe is not just very real but would be talked about from day 3, with all, openly...  I am horrified that one of the best light hearted moments of any leg has gone to shit because precious oversensitive politically correct people have a shit life and an axe to grind. Lighten the fuck up, you'll be dead soon... What the fuck has this world come to... This has absolutely floored me this morning...

If this light hearted moment is overstepping the mark then us Aussies are in deep shit as it's what we do well and is meant for fun and positivity  ..  The other crews and skippers should try it .... 

Here's an idea.... instead of censoring these things (more)   Why don't we ban over sensitive fuckwits like Brian Hancock......

Sorry all but FUCK ME (Aussie for "what the heck", no offence intended)......

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"I am just the father of a daughter, brother of a sister and fiancée of a lovely woman and I never want to see this kind of crap on the airwaves of this awesome event ever again.

– Brian Hancock."

I simply put it down to Hancock being on the receiving end of too many jibes about his surname as a kid. 

Either that or Humourless Handjob likes his women to wear funny hats and he likes beards.

unnamed (2).png

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Don't say I didn't warn you:

On 11/27/2017 at 11:35 PM, Fiji Bitter said:

 

Wait, isn't our own Front page Brian Whitbread Hangcock not originally from Cape Town ? 

He's got to be down there and we will soon have the full long insight story of Witty's Scandlewag on the Front page that is impossible to find. Someone please post it in this thread, if possible in abbreviated form please.

 

Still waiting for the short version, but here is mine:

 I have raced in three of these races back when it was called the Whitbread and feel that I have a right, if not a duty, to call myself a bigoted fuddy-duddy.

.Don't ever want to see Witty's scrotum again my dear Briana?  Find someone to gouge your eyes out with a red hot poker,  they do it for free in Cape Town, for prudy boys like you.

 

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55 minutes ago, PIL007 said:

If this light hearted moment is overstepping the mark then us Aussies are in deep shit as it's what we do well and is meant for fun and positivity

Yep.  Aussies are fucked.  So are the Greeks, the Cockneys, Welsh, Cherokee, Pawnee, Egyptians, Syrians, Iranians, most of Asia, a small village in Greenland, Africans especially the Tutsi of Ethiopia, the nation of Kazakhstan including her Royal Highness, Luxembourgians, Mexicans, Mongolians, Tibetan Monks (who knew), the entire prison population, the military, politicians, anthropology professors, all boys ages 6 - 16, all girls aged 10 -16, dogs (they think it), men with red hair, comedians, dictators, fisherman, The Inuit, West Virginians, elderly Japanese women (they reach a point), tall blonde Norwegian women and anyone named Pauley, Mikey, Johnny, Jimmy or Penelope. 

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7 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Yep.  Aussies are fucked.  So are the Greeks, the Cockneys, Welsh, Cherokee, Pawnee, Egyptians, Syrians, Iranians, most of Asia, a small village in Greenland, Africans especially the Tutsi of Ethiopia, the nation of Kazakhstan including her Royal Highness, Luxembourgians, Mexicans, Mongolians, Tibetan Monks (who knew), the entire prison population, the military, politicians, anthropology professors, all boys ages 6 - 16, all girls aged 10 -16, dogs (they think it), men with red hair, comedians, dictators, fisherman, The Inuit, West Virginians, elderly Japanese women (they reach a point), tall blonde Norwegian women and anyone named Pauley, Mikey, Johnny, Jimmy or Penelope. 

I disagree on the Mongolians

 

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1 minute ago, PIL007 said:

I disagree on the Mongolians

I don't know.  The farting yak jokes date back centuries.

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Much of the above, but not all, reminds me of the shit which is aired daily through our media here in the UK.

So much knee jerk reaction and pandering to the masses.. (how to get elected, how to sell newspapers, how to script a soap etc. etc....)

Clearly IMO.

However it is relevant and worthy of discussion but to do that and for it to be worthwhile would require the utmost INTEGRITY.

Perhaps that's a starting point?

 

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Gut reaction - That makes me laugh Southern because I find it funny.

When I think - All about context I suppose and the ever moving lines of acceptable.

 

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5 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Gut reaction - That makes me laugh Southern because I find it funny.

As a kindred member of the trodden down male species, I say "it's ok to laugh".  Just make sure there is an exit close by.

 

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It's not that bad is it??

Oh dear, La Luna has just appeared in the top left (northern hemisphere) hand corner of my window........Springs coming on...

In any case time for bed cos I want to be a sparky electrician in the morning..

 

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Yep.  Aussies are fucked.  So are the Greeks, the Cockneys, Welsh, Cherokee, Pawnee, Egyptians, Syrians, Iranians, most of Asia, a small village in Greenland, Africans especially the Tutsi of Ethiopia, the nation of Kazakhstan including her Royal Highness, Luxembourgians, Mexicans, Mongolians, Tibetan Monks (who knew), the entire prison population, the military, politicians, anthropology professors, all boys ages 6 - 16, all girls aged 10 -16, dogs (they think it), men with red hair, comedians, dictators, fisherman, The Inuit, West Virginians, elderly Japanese women (they reach a point), tall blonde Norwegian women and anyone named Pauley, Mikey, Johnny, Jimmy or Penelope. 

At least you left out Kiwi's!

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Well the Ed only puts him on the front page to create traffic.  We all fall for it every time.

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26 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

This the Scallyskirts Wrap Up for Leg 2...something seems to missing??

 

This was not on the VoR site. 

Witty says: "One day becomes 30 days very quickly."    Mmmmmm  how about that.

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As an aside, there was a second video from Leg 2 that I thought showed something that might be construed as sexual harassment. It was a different boat and a very different situation. I don’t want to get into making a case for it, so I’m not going to call it out specifically. But it made me uncomfortable watching it, through what might have been misplaced sympathy for the woman experiencing it.  You can find it if you try hard enough, since I’ve basically shared every thought I had about every minute of every video. But for many of those here I suspect it isn’t going to “move their needle”.

One minor point about the FP article: It actually wasn’t Witty who made the most flagrant comment about the sudocreme. It seems likely he was the author of the little play they were doing, so I guess that doesn’t make a lot of difference, but it probably is worth actually talking about what happened if someone wants to make a big deal about it.

 

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One that I was not keen on was the one where a female crew member made the hot chocolate for the crew in extremely difficult circumstances.  She did a great job and described how it was done in a way that inferred she did it regularly.  If that had been my call I would not have let it (the video) off the boat.

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51 minutes ago, random said:

If that had been my call I would not have let it off the boat.

So does your RC have both "transmit" and "receive"? How do you not let stuff get off the boat? Do you just snap the antenna in half?

images (18).jpeg

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56 minutes ago, random said:

One that I was not keen on was the one where a female crew member made the hot chocolate for the crew in extremely difficult circumstances.  She did a great job and described how it was done in a way that inferred she did it regularly.  If that had been my call I would not have let it (the video) off the boat.

oh FFS. get a grip.

When was the last time you actually sailed with a woman offshore?

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51 minutes ago, random said:

One that I was not keen on was the one where a female crew member made the hot chocolate for the crew in extremely difficult circumstances.  She did a great job and described how it was done in a way that inferred she did it regularly.  If that had been my call I would not have let it (the video) off the boat.

Why? If she enjoyed giving hot chocolate to others, I don't see the problem at all. If anybody interpreted the video that she had to do this because she's female, they are just stupid. The video also doesn't say anything about other chores and who does what. Maybe this is her thing, and some of the guys does the dishes, for example. And anyway, if I enjoy bringing cake to my team it's not because I'm female. It's just a personal taste and other crew members enjoy making hot dogs or coffee. Nothing gender specific about it.

I got a flashback from my famous trip down under where I was asked to make coffee, just 10 minutes after leaving the dock. I didn't really know what jobs they expected me to do. So my heart sunk a little and I thought "Oh no, I'm just going to be making coffee and food, nothing sailing related......" But it turned out that my only job was steering, and we all took turns in making coffee. So if a video of that first moment alone was published, it would have looked sexist, right? But in reality it wasn't.

 

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Clearly some here still do not realise that what you think is not relevant here, it is what others think about those scenes.  As a recent example, the ripples in the force created by Witty's scrotum comments were not made by people who had no problem with the comments.  Were they.

Personally I found the hot chocolate making an interesting example of how hard simple tasks are on a boat doing 20 knots on a 25 degree list.  Professionally I cringed and what happen to Witty recently confirmed that impression.

What about that do you not understand. 

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1 minute ago, random said:

Clearly some here still do not realise that what you think is not relevant here, it is what others think about those scenes.

I think you're the only one who cringed about the hot chocolate making.

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2 minutes ago, random said:

Clearly some here still do not realise that what you think is not relevant here, it is what others think about those scenes.  As a recent example, the ripples in the force created by Witty's scrotum comments were not made by people who had no problem with the comments.  Were they.

Personally I found the hot chocolate making an interesting example of how hard simple tasks are on a boat doing 20 knots on a 25 degree list.  Professionally I cringed and what happen to Witty recently confirmed that impression.

What about that do you not understand. 

you are inferring all sorts of sexism from a 30s shot of someone making a drink on a boat.

What do you not understand about the idiocy of that?

Do you wonder if the big guy grinding on the main is always given that job?

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4 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

I think you're the only one who cringed about the hot chocolate making.

Not so sure about that after the radars of those who have complained about perceived sexism, have been switched on to hi-gain.

I see it differently now, if I was a sponsor I would have sent a direction on it.

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4 minutes ago, random said:

Not so sure about that after the radars of those who have complained about perceived sexism, have been switched on to hi-gain.

I see it differently now, if I was a sponsor I would have sent a direction on it.

Saying what? "Please don't take photos or videos of a female crew making food, drinks or any activity that some might say are typically female chores"?

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2 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Saying what? "Please don't take photos or videos of a female crew making food, drinks or any activity that some might say are typically female chores"?

Yes.  It's about risk management around millions of dollars of investment.

Why take the risk with millions of dollars of other peoples money?

Edit: Why provide fodder to those who want to cause trouble?

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Randumb...you might need one of these.

I will bow to your greater experience Jacky-boy.

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Nice try, but I made a vaild point, just that you do not like or agree. 

I used to provide sponsorship from an organisation I worked for, I suspect I have more experience on this subject than you do.

I recall taking one extravagant proposal to the MD and asked him to approve the sponsorship of an event.  He looked at it, put it on the table, looked at me and said "Don't make me make a decision ... that's what we are paying you to do." 

So I did, then and after that.  No way I would want to risk that investment by lack of thought by the recipients.

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53 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

I think you're the only one who cringed about the hot chocolate making.

I cringed because they hadn’t come up with a safer way of making it without getting burnt!! 

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15 minutes ago, random said:

Nice try, but I made a vaild point, just that you do not like or agree. 

I used to provide sponsorship from an organisation I worked for, I suspect I have more experience on this subject than you do.

I recall taking one extravagant proposal to the MD and asked him to approve the sponsorship of an event.  He looked at it, put it on the table, looked at me and said "Don't make me make a decision ... that's what we are paying you to do." 

So I did, then and after that.  No way I would want to risk that investment by lack of thought by the recipients.

What would you do if the team was all female?  Would you also then forbid them to display any chores being done?

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You are asking a rhetorical question.  I do not answer those.

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4 hours ago, random said:

Well the Ed only puts him on the front page to create traffic.  We all fall for it every time.

I suspect he pays to go on the front page.

anyone else get his spam emails flogging sails?

 

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12 hours ago, random said:

You see that's where this subject is different.  As soon as you want to include a female example you risk being seen as a Trump.  Perhaps even misogynistic.  There is no logic to an emotional argument, there is no future in taking that line.

I had a women crew member who told us how she only liked really big dicks and given normal male insecurities, we were careful not to be remotely measured while taking a piss off the back in cold weather.  Harassment?

So she was too lazy to lend a hand?

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Just now, olaf hart said:

I suspect he pays to go on the front page.

anyone else get his spam emails flogging sails?

 

Shit, you are probably right of course.  They always include a reminder of how many Whitbread's he has done etc.

There is still scope for me to become even more cynical.

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21 minutes ago, random said:

Nice try, but I made a vaild point, just that you do not like or agree.I used to provide sponsorship from an organisation I worked for...

I'm not too sure we can go any bigger than this...so please stop.

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

I'm not too sure we can go any bigger than this...so please stop.

You got nothing in this one jacky-boy. 

All you have are personal attacks and they are making you look like the only fuckwit here.

Please stop humping my leg.

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21 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

What would you do if the team was all female?  Would you also then forbid them to display any chores being done?

But surely an all female team would have a cabin boy for all that stuff??:):)

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Randumb well this is our last shot in the locker for helping you dig the world's biggest hole you are intent on digging ...upside is it will get rid of that leg itch your experiencing.

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7 minutes ago, mad said:

But surely an all female team would have a cabin boy for all that stuff??:):)

Mad your so wrong ..no way an all female team would stow a few cases of Sail & Anchor on board.

WLQ0010 S&A A2 PLUMP PTRT-thumb-400x565-91659.jpg

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Pascal is a legend,  pasted at the time he says We are fucked".   The funniest clips of the leg.

 

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^^ Randumb you're now suddenly being reflective..casting your mind back to entertaining times...do you have any sharp objects in reach????..this does not look good. 

Is there a doctor close by?

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Random brings up a very good point. I too was very disturbed by one of the Raw feeds, the one in which the head exploded all over Annie Lush.  

Obviously this was a cruel prank devised by Bouwe and Cape, carried out by none other than Burling, graphically illustrating what they really felt about the new rules and having women on board.  And from a sponsor's point of view, I suspect Musto was none to pleased about having a video of their foulies covered in shit.  Disgraceful really.

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12 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Random brings up a very good point. I too was very disturbed by one of the Raw feeds, the one in which the head exploded all over Annie Lush.  

Obviously this was a cruel prank devised by Bouwe and Cape, carried out by none other than Burling, graphically illustrating what they really felt about the new rules and having women on board.  And from a sponsor's point of view, I suspect Musto was none to pleased about having a video of their foulies covered in shit.  Disgraceful really.

Link??? or is this a wind up?

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8 hours ago, random said:

Nice try, but I made a vaild point, just that you do not like or agree. 

I used to provide sponsorship from an organisation I worked for, I suspect I have more experience on this subject than you do.

I recall taking one extravagant proposal to the MD and asked him to approve the sponsorship of an event.  He looked at it, put it on the table, looked at me and said "Don't make me make a decision ... that's what we are paying you to do." 

So I did, then and after that.  No way I would want to risk that investment by lack of thought by the recipients.

Yeah, the big money is in the RC Sailing league.
Very extravagant lot, those joystick fiddlers

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