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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
southerncross

VOR Leg 2 Lisbon to Cape Town

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You can see why Mapfre and Dongfeng are pro.  Clean, tidy stack and all the crew hanging on aft while the other boats showing crew all over the boat still sorting the deck out etc.

Sorry.  Behind the curve here.  Probably already discussed.

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12 minutes ago, southerncross said:

You can see why Mapfre and Dongfeng are pro.  Clean, tidy stack and all the crew hanging on aft while the other boats showing crew all over the boat still sorting the deck out etc.

Sorry.  Behind the curve here.  Probably already discussed.

Not  really mentioned earlier, so not so behind. 

btw, worth checking out volodia's free 'pro' plugin for Chrome, if you missed it earlier

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1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

JS would remember his S-H crew prep talk that was aired during the coverage, it was pretty awful, he doesn't come across as a leader & I think he wouldn't last very long as skipper on another team when he wasn't running the show for the owner. 

Scan excellent driver and pretty good project manager when there is not a lot of cash in the piggy bank. I would put Warro (who drove Sth Ocean for Knut one edition) in the same basket. The two together (as they have been in the past) pretty histerical and at times you would be hanging on for dear life taking the paint off the bottom.

Not sure you would trust either with your sister though :-)

To put this pic in proper context compared to modern boats, a fast 80's truck in 1990 Melbourne to Hobart yacht race on the way to Line Honours victory.

Bennett01.jpg

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15 minutes ago, stief said:

Speed check now that all the boats have been 1/2 hour on the same gybe. MAPF looking good :) 

newplot.png.d363fdcc3fe956e3e547e5750d9b3ddd.png

 

stiffman, those numbers indicate the Paintwagon as arguably most improved. Glad to see the lads have settled in.

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32 minutes ago, southerncross said:

The OD exploits this.  No room for it.  But he's funny as hell and his crew seem like a good sort so I don't really care where they place.  Good for the race.

Thinking more on it (from the raw footage) the vibe on their boat feels like everyman's boat.  It's familiar like a local offshore regatta.  Not at all tight lipped and buttoned up, they haven't forgotten to have a good time.  Not to say that everyone else isn't having a good time.  It wouldn't be far fetched to find a keg on board if weight wasn't a concern and the rules allowed.

One thing I will say is work hard, play hard......  Having a good time on Witty's programme is mandatory ..... he leads by example... Shame there isn't a point score for in port partying....  

In all seriousness, he does as many miles as anyone offshore... and has balls. 

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9 minutes ago, PIL007 said:

One thing I will say is work hard, play hard......  Having a good time on Witty's programme is mandatory ..... he leads by example... Shame there isn't a point score for in port partying....  

In all seriousness, he does as many miles as anyone offshore... and has balls. 

Yes I've witnessed that. They got beaten by WOXI the next day. 

Like I said, way above most of us but does that mean he's the best man to be running this show? 

Look what happens when the good guys like Boss, Maserati, Rambler or Assa, Almost ABN, or even Leopard showed up for a Hobart race. They all did remarkably well against the locals at their own game. 

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Looking forward to the convergence later. Seems RaceExperts project DFRT ahead of MAPF. Maybe this race will boost Witty to a new level ;)

 

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The heli coverage was incredible and telling.

The set ups, trim and helming are strikingly different early in the race between the leaders and trailing boats.  Scally and TTop all over the course.  Mapfre and Donfeng dialed in.  

Good footage for the newbs to look over later and to button up.

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40 minutes ago, stief said:

Not  really mentioned earlier, so not so behind. 

btw, worth checking out volodia's free 'pro' plugin for Chrome, if you missed it earlier

Steif, Volodia is some special kind of genius.  Have you tracked over the VMG?  Is there a way to isolate the polars per boat?

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Breeze is farther right than forecast, SIFI is starting to look cleverer and cleverer.

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3 hours ago, stief said:

Ha ha. Well played.

Here you go

 

chinese porn indeed, it's blowing balls. great photo.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Scan excellent driver and pretty good project manager when there is not a lot of cash in the piggy bank. I would put Warro (who drove Sth Ocean for Knut one edition) in the same basket. The two together (as they have been in the past) pretty histerical and at times you would be hanging on for dear life taking the paint off the bottom.

Not sure you would trust either with your sister though :-)

To put this pic in proper context compared to modern boats, a fast 80's truck in 1990 Melbourne to Hobart yacht race on the way to Line Honours victory.

Bennett01.jpg

haven't seen that pic for years, back in the day it was one of best out there. look at the trench it's plowing.

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1 hour ago, 3to1 said:

haven't seen that pic for years, back in the day it was one of best out there. look at the trench it's plowing.

The Inglis 47.....in the hands of a bunch of dinghy sailors (Wharro was the exception) running before the frontal change and unable to put in a reef out of fear of dropping the rig.....the boat was so soft it was visibly twisting when you looked down the companionway thru to the bow. Just rode it out and hung on until a reef was possible...looks impressive but was just a bunch of scared shitless young buggers on one of the scariest bits of water round....no where to run to...nowhere to hide!

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2 hours ago, 3to1 said:

haven't seen that pic for years, back in the day it was one of best out there. look at the trench it's plowing.

 

51 minutes ago, Couta said:

The Inglis 47.....in the hands of a bunch of dinghy sailors (Wharro was the exception) running before the frontal change and unable to put in a reef out of fear of dropping the rig.....

3 and Couts they were not only white knucked and scared shitless but a bunch of lazy opportunity lost fucks. They could have laid a comms cable in that trench they plowed and brought the telephone to Tassie.

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12 hours ago, stief said:

Thanks! Works :)

59ff64452cdbd_ScreenShot2017-11-05at1_18_03PM.thumb.png.480c7b2d6dd8e1b4615220a23ccf079b.png

 

7 hours ago, stief said:

@Herman and Hitch

Noticed volodia's data tool allows JSON exports. Any use for you guys?

 

3 hours ago, stief said:

Thanks @stief for the heads-up, I missed that tweet.

And a well deserved hats-off please for our @Volodia for building such a small data treasure as plug-in!!

I just tried the polars option, see the scatter-diagram below. Only stuff I need is more boat data and a way to select one boat instead of the whole fleet. You can build individual polars with enough individual boat data. Don't see the JSON export option though, any advice very much appreciated because plotting manually is a no-go.

 

 

Schermafdruk 2017-11-06 09.10.35.png

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35 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Ahh question answered ...the Dong has just put the right hand down first. Aliguist you are probably all over this though and keeping your powder dry??

 

26 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Different Strategy by the two Leaders jack:

Dongfeng will go west of Madeira and MAPFRE might be going East around.

Explain why and what them 2 strategies are then ??

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MAPFRE gybed to Stbd. now in any case........

DF gybed 10-20 mins after the 07.00 position report presumably so as not to communicate their move to the fleet.

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I wonder if the boats have peeled to the A3 now the breeze is a little lighter.

It would be interesting to know who is flying what.

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3 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

If I were Dee & TToP I would continue going south and not gybe over. They lost out in the boatspeed contest with the other Teams last Night. Same goes Scally. Shake the Leaders, do something different.

That is an option if their view on the routing suggests it will work out otherwise they would simply be condemning themselves to further losses.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wonder who will gybe first?

 

49 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Ahh question answered ...the Dong has just put the right hand down first. Aliguist you are probably all over this though and keeping your powder dry??

 

40 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Different Strategy by the two Leaders jack:

Dongfeng will go west of Madeira and MAPFRE might be going East around.

 

15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

Explain why and what them 2 strategies are then ??

 

11 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Because they have the slower boat. Their Drivers/Trimmers ain't as good as MAPFRE's that has become pretty apparent right now.

A nothing fuckin answer...people make those decisions in powered vehicles driving to the Mall.

Aliguist I have decided to invest some of my valuable time and no matter how much a dick you are, you deserve a chance on account you are are fanboy and propogate the airways for good or bad. 

So I am giving you a rare chance that many wouldn't  to move from the RC class and the swimming pool to the real world to recover some dignity.

Don't waste it. This window of opportunity will only be open for so long...like when Mad wakes up.

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15 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't care what you say you bastard.

educate yourself, Grasshopper, and turn that frown upside down.

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15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

This window of opportunity will only be open for so long...

Well that didn't last long ..... and it's only Monday ffs :-)

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when you see all that water on deck - there must be some design issues that has not been adressed properly... 

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On 05/11/2017 at 2:52 PM, jack_sparrow said:

The routing strategy for this leg is usually peppered with the phrases "West is Best", First in First Out" etc.

They still apply however I think with it now being a Sans Fernando Mark leg, a fresh synonym comes into play. I call it the the Verdes Dash. How teams shine or otherwise in doing well at that may well determine the winners and the also rans more than any other factor in this leg.

Then lots of blah blah which has been deleted

Interestingly in the briefing most of the skippers talked around east versus west with no Fernando mark. The only one I think that implied the Verdes Dash might be on was Teapot. 

Maybe the others were just foxing?

 

On 05/11/2017 at 3:12 PM, Miffy said:

Would you plan to pass west of Funchal while true wind is strong enough for deep run without sacrificing too much or steer for Canary and make west when angles get better?

 

21 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Miff first my apologies for missing your post...

Anyway in answer to your question as it seems the room is empty I will do my best to respond. Having regard for my PC with routing programmes being converscated in 1995, (I was jailed then for saying the V60 resembled a floating block of flats and Volvo engines resembled a BarMix) but the guards here letting me poke my finger out the cell window just now, my sumation is  this after doing some quick Coriolis effect corrections as I'm in the southern hemisphere.

The Funchal and Canary split is always a tough one. However history shows being a buffalo girl on the outside or a pig on the inside rarely pays a dividend. 

So go middle I reakon, then again my finger might have been turned around the wrong way or I was taking the opportunity of giving Alinguist the finger. Who knows.

Now Aliguist you are now sitting on 3 strikes and your out with that rather whiny country response above that we all now well know, despite my kind invitation above. 

Now as you clearly are not a great listener I have reposted above a discussion between the two most intelligent people (we are not related by either birth or dick action) on this thread and that occured before the start. It is here now in front of your eyes for guidance.

I'm desperately hoping your next response is more considered and more technically thoughtful with that guidance in mind.

Your looking a gift horse in the mouth here mate...I just heard Mad's alarm clock go off.

PS. Your wasting valuable time with those quick half dozen down votes you just did...wise up..it's Xmas and your shooting Santa.

 

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15 minutes ago, SeaGul said:

when you see all that water on deck - there must be some design issues that has not been adressed properly... 

Yeah. Like, 30 knots of boat speed and of course the ocean doesn't have lumps in it. 

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Imagine how good it would be if they had state of the art unrestricted 70'rs!

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Just now, SCANAS said:

Imagine how good it would be if they had state of the art unrestricted 70'rs!

yes, the 24h record would be in danger...now not so much...though, have to admit, quite a nice ride anyway  

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7 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Imagine how good it would be if they had state of the art unrestricted 70'rs!

Scanas go back to the bar and talk history..mate I just had to down vote you there ..and very reluctantly I must say in my imaginary position of VOR Box Rule Foiling 70 Chairperson.

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't care what you say you bastard.

AND I certainly don't have to take these kind of languages from you...

Comment by jack_sparrow yesterday to me:

"I take it with the Dong assured of hitting the mark first then Aliguist's penis has exploded in his own mouth? Surely there is no chance of a recovery from that? Help me God."

I'm going to write Clean or some other Admin here a PM about this. You won't get away with that this time. It's not the first time you did it.

frabz-leave-me-alone-040f33.jpg

 

:lol:

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47 minutes ago, SeaGul said:

when you see all that water on deck - there must be some design issues that has not been adressed properly... 

Christ, another idiot!!:wacko:

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40 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

 

Now Aliguist you are now sitting on 3 strikes and your out with that rather whiny country response above that we all now well know, despite my kind invitation above. 

Now as you clearly are not a great listener I have reposted above a discussion between the two most intelligent people (we are not related by either birth or dick action) on this thread and that occured before the start. It is here now in front of your eyes for guidance.

I'm desperately hoping your next response is more considered and more technically thoughtful with that guidance in mind.

Your looking a gift horse in the mouth here mate...I just heard Mad's alarm clock go off.

PS. Your wasting valuable time with those quick half dozen down votes you just did...wise up..it's Xmas and your shooting Santa.

 

Morning gents, what did I miss?

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AkzoNobel been sitting on Brunel's ass for a while, and now got past them!

Nico and Peter know Bouwe very well and must have been getting on his nerves.

Good fun!

Same for Scallywag aan Turn the Tide, what a fight!

And Cunnalinghy, as for Dong Feng, they may be in a "solid" second by tomorrow...

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

Christ, another idiot!!:wacko:

Really??...these boat will sail 20kn + downwind for much of the race - so this is really a big issue - have a bow that can deflect water better or ride over the waves - speed and comfort (safety).

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Morning gents, what did I miss?

Fuck..Mad couldn't you have slept in just this day. 

PoolMan I have given you every encouragement to turn over a new leaf. You have minutes left now while Mad has a dump and a cup of coffee.

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1 hour ago, SeaGul said:

when you see all that water on deck - there must be some design issues that has not been adressed properly... 

I just gave you 1 down-vote. Hint keep posting that nonsence from your narrow barge that has been sitting in the putty since the world understood J Edgar Hoover was a poof, then you will be quickly joining PoolMan. Just a hint. 

PS Mad is a cunt, don't worry.

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1 hour ago, SeaGul said:

when you see all that water on deck - there must be some design issues that has not been adressed properly... 

I agree completely with you on that.
I plead many times for awfull lot of years to have shelters for the sailors just like Imoca.
boss1.jpg
The consensus with the VOR designers (Bruce Farr) is that it's not the spirit of the VOR.
http://www.farrdesign.com/volvooceanrace.html
It must be a flushdeck.

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Doing Idiot admin on this thread is exhausting where the only reward is Scooter gives me a free SA subscription. Back to racing.

Miff haul yourself off my sister...the Dong is going Buffolo.

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6 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

I agree completely with you on that.
I plead many times for awfull lot of years to have shelters for the sailors just like Imoca.

 

Well, they need some space for the crew... I raced on a class 40 a few months ago and it wasn't exactly ideal to be fully crewed on a boat set up for solo/short handed sailing. But of course it had nice shelter for 2 people.

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Just now, NORBowGirl said:

Well, they need some space for the crew... I raced on a class 40 a few months ago and it wasn't exactly ideal to be fully crewed on a boat set up for solo/short handed sailing. But of course it had nice shelter for 2 people.

It can be done. Now they are seeking shelter behind the stowed sails on windward.
But, I am not in the Farr Design group.
 

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1 hour ago, SeaGul said:

when you see all that water on deck - there must be some design issues that has not been adressed properly... 

 

27 minutes ago, SeaGul said:

Really??...these boat will sail 20kn + downwind for much of the race - so this is really a big issue - have a bow that can deflect water better or ride over the waves - speed and comfort (safety).

 

6 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

I agree completely with you on that.
I plead many times for awfull lot of years to have shelters...

Now come on.. you two both live in the same fuckin cardboard box don't you. Fuckin own up. There is absolutely no way you two fools have ever met. It is statisically fuckin impossible. 

If you chime in and say you both know PoolMan cause he lives in the cardboard box next to you..well you all should be on worldwide TV. 

Hide them big Elephant Man like bumps on your noggins though would be my suggestion.

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5 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Looks like Brunel, AkzoNobel, Turn The Tide On Plastic and Scallywag are going to roll the dice and head east of Madeira and then hug the African Coast while Mapfre and Dongfeng go west of Madeira. Which move will pay?

Not really sure that routing around or through Madeira has ever been much of an issue with leverage or otherwise the way the Canaries come into play.  I believe right now they’re all just gybing downwind in a blow trying to stay in full-on Send It mode as long as possible.

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To play submarine is not fast (even look amazing - for amateurs) - and they get exhausted - and swept overboard...  here a solution:

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Looks like Brunel, AkzoNobel, Turn The Tide On Plastic and Scallywag are going to roll the dice and head east of Madeira and then hug the African Coast while Mapfre and Dongfeng go west of Madeira.

Oh PoolMan I gave you every chance to turn a new leaf. What did you do? Who knows other than squander it, I just hope farm animals were not involved. You have now made me look foolish.

PS can you please post a diagram of what you mean by this illuminating post.

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I can't see how one would design a shelter that could provide effective shelter, in those conditions, for a fully crewed race boat (without compromising safety in some other way). My experience (limited though it is, in comparison to others here) on a variety of vessels, is that sailing offshore in big breeze is never a dry experience

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Just now, SeaGul said:

To play submarine is not fast (even look amazing - for amateurs) - and they get exhausted - and swept overboard...  

 

I am learning here, please keep posting! Giving you a plus back too.

Ignore Jack the Ripper, he is obviously on the booze... 

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13 minutes ago, SeaGul said:

To play submarine is not fast (even look amazing - for amateurs) - and they get exhausted - and swept overboard...  

 

Make it fully foiling!
Can't wait to see the new America's Cup  monohull foiling.
The nose dive will be a freightning moment then.
20170910-foiling-monohull.jpg.1d8a012f958345a205ff0f27be459ae2.jpg
@ Weyalan, To have a shelter as wide as the boat gives room enough for nine.
http://www.farrdesign.com/pdfs/757_S4_1233_A_PROMO_DECK_AND_INTERIOR_A0.pdf
 

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If the shelter is as wide as the boat, makes transiting the side decks more challenging, no? Also, reduces below-deck heights, which has other challenges / implications?

I mean, I get how it would be beneficial, but it isn't like it can happen in a vacuum...

 

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54 minutes ago, mad said:

Morning gents, what did I miss?

Just a misguided generousity of spirit on my behalf Mad. I feel so foolish. I'm off to seek counciling before I can continue any further on this thread. Words like shattered are just long meaningless phrases easilly mixed up with ones like I shittered in the pool mum and my boat hit a brown rock. Not happy.

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Dongfeng took quite some risk in not covering anybody, hope they will still be in the lead after the equator ...

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7 minutes ago, Weyalan said:

If the shelter is as wide as the boat, makes transiting the side decks more challenging, no? Also, reduces below-deck heights, which has other challenges / implications?

I mean, I get how it would be beneficial, but it isn't like it can happen in a vacuum...

 

Im more thinking they should ride over the wave - like the minis ...   

 

This VOR boats look outdated - meanwhile the French are making record braking foiling maxitrimarans in numbers - while the rest of the world are living in the past...

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JFC, am signing off before this thread goes into Spontaneous human combustion (SHC).

Just now, jack_sparrow said:

And fuji your 24/7 diet of Karva..how is that going?

Kava + home brew rice wine 40% = SHC.

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7 hours ago, southerncross said:

Finally getting to watch the replay of the start.

Mapfre carrying the Masthead Zero + J2 + J3 and no reef, both dagger boards up, both struts out, doing 30 +/- knts with an easy helm in 25knts breeze.  Keel extension and other modifications. They seem a lot more powered up than in the last edition.  Anyone else?

 

Mapfre (and vestas) looked much more bow out with that rig up.  Scallywag really seemed to be ploughing a furrow with the fractional zero and J2.

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9 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Dongfengs Position looks for now absolutely horrible. They have less wind than all the other boats.

Have you considered playing the VOR game? It must be perfect for you. That way, you'd be occupied with the routing and could test your own ideas. And a couple of other benefits but let's not be rude.

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PS. I have now consulted with my Russian therapist.. he simply said Перевод which is the Rusky word for revenge, he went on to say it was a meal best served fuckin red hot.

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5 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Have you considered playing the VOR game? It must be perfect for you. That way, you'd be occupied with the routing and could test your own ideas. And a couple of other benefits but let's not be rude.

I tried that to cure my insomnia....needless to say, it didn't work 

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2 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

Looks like close racing to me.
Dong Feng doing something that might be advantageous.
5a0046a809449_vor6-11.thumb.PNG.1ae9b1a04089431c5379a07067dd1689.PNG

Yep, Dong Feng in stealth mode, very advantageous and unfair too.

Extrapolating the dead reckoning it all works out at commensurated equidistance to Cape Town.          

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2 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I'm going to write Clean or some other Admin here a PM about this. You won't get away with that this time. It's not the first time you did it.

Go right ahead PoolMan. I have just posted a big Bitcoin reward in Russia to track you down. I will get away with it. It is the first time I have done this and the last I hope. 

I hope you understand Russian because when they say Перевод, that means a really hungry gerbil.

 

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27 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Dongfengs Position looks for now absolutely horrible. They have less wind than all the other boats.

But but .... 5 hours ago you told us that Dong was in a solid 2nd place.
Does that mean that I can't trust the insights that you share with us? :(:wacko:

 

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Перевод

I have relatives in Zaandam and they told me Czaar Peter fucked my great great great grandmother, and she told me that Перевод means "transfer". You must be mistaken with задница, which means a gerbil arsehole.

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as Vestas and Mapfre crossed very close from each other.
Very easy now to draw a line with them and see that Dong is SW of the line when others are still NE

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16 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Naughty. 

 Naughty..that's an understatement Scan. Mistake more like it. 

I should never had Chinese/French for lunch today sort of celebrating the Dongs resurrection and opened that fuckin fortune cookie which said in French find a whiny little cunt and be kind to it. Well that worked out. Not. 

I have learnt my lesson.

Now I'm only eating big Texan style tomahawk steaks, wearing clogs.

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Still catching up after some time away from the net. VOR media improved a lot for this edition. Loved the heli footage, sad for Sally Barcow that she did not find a ride, but her commentary is much appreciated.

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