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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
southerncross

VOR Leg 2 Lisbon to Cape Town

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And another. RaceEperts doing a fine job keeping us posted. Maybe we'll even see a TBRUN/MAPF cross ;)

 

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4 hours ago, stief said:

Thanks. How long did it take to generate and post all those great views? And, how easy just to show ETAs for all? 

  • Converting the positions from excel to a gpx format and importing into openCPN is +/- 5 mins.
  • Downloading the GRIB and loading into OpenCPN +/- 5 mins
  • Downloading the NOAA chart 2 mins + analysis 5 mins
  • Routing itself is fastest, +/- 1 minute per boat. I do have a heavy duty workhorse PC build for me with custom specs though.

If tomorrow morning the distance is large enough between boats, I'll do routings for the whole fleet to see what comes up. 

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1 minute ago, Herman said:
  • Converting the positions from excel to a gpx format and importing into openCPN is +/- 5 mins.
  • Downloading the GRIB and loading into OpenCPN +/- 5 mins
  • Downloading the NOAA chart 2 mins + analysis 5 mins
  • Routing itself is fastest, +/- 1 minute per boat. I do have a heavy duty workhorse PC build for me with custom specs though.

If tomorrow morning the distance is large enough between boats, I'll do routings for the whole fleet to see what comes up. 

Thanks for the info (and taking the time). Looks like no major chore, then for Race Control/ GreatCircle to automate ETA if they wanted.

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1 hour ago, LionessRacing said:

I was just  curious to see for one design boats, what the differences were. 

Thank you for that very nice table, the percentages tell us a lot. Fits in the picture.

Edit: just realized that it is interesting to see if the boat handling efficiency improves on the boats over time, and how quickly. 

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1 minute ago, Herman said:

Thank you for that very nice table, the percentages tell us a lot. Fits in the picture.

Don't think that the stats summary tracks the time period selected. If it did, it would show some possible improvements. 

If anyone is taking inputs for the "PRO" extension.... 

Add course and TWD to the comparison and stats. 

Make the stats track the time window

 

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21 minutes ago, stief said:

And another. RaceEperts doing a fine job keeping us posted. Maybe we'll even see a TBRUN/MAPF cross ;)

 

 

we have now approximativaly
Dongfeng
Vestas +5 NM
Mafre +10 NM
Brunel +20 NM
Akzonobel +25NM
Scallywag + 50NM
TTTP + 55NM

On last report Vestas appears ahead regarding new waypoint, but Dongfeng with true wind at 80° has a perfect VMC(*)
as Vestas had one hour before

(*) if you consider doldrums will be crossed west from the tracker waypoint

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Good point about VMC. Waypoints are not that useful if everyone has decided to go elsewhere. If you'd care to say more, curious how you got your numbers.

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24 minutes ago, stief said:

And another. RaceEperts doing a fine job keeping us posted. Maybe we'll even see a TBRUN/MAPF cross ;)

 

Interesting, Vestas is heading almost due south (185 degrees) which will take them to the left of Cape Verde. DFRT is heading 216, almost 30 degrees difference. Boats are +/- 14 nm laterally separated, but not sailing in the same wind it seems. Which is good for Vestas. Richer get rich and such. Well, off to bed, need to recover a bit.

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3 minutes ago, stief said:

Good point about VMC. Waypoints are not that useful if everyone has decided to go elsewhere. If you'd care to say more, curious how you got your numbers.

these are not map distance but sailing distance (rough estimate) with an average wind at 50° and +140/-140° tacks

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2 hours ago, 4pines said:

Wish the kept the drone footage for the whole gybe...

 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/1605.html

Yeah. I feel like something must have gone wrong with the shot at that point, or Sam would surely have included more of it. Still was awesome drone work, though.

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39 minutes ago, Herman said:

Interesting, Vestas is heading almost due south (185 degrees) which will take them to the left of Cape Verde. DFRT is heading 216, almost 30 degrees difference. Boats are +/- 14 nm laterally separated, but not sailing in the same wind it seems. Which is good for Vestas. Richer get rich and such. Well, off to bed, need to recover a bit.

I think you are dreaming if you think with the current conditions and forecast anybody is going left of CV. I think the different angles are because of local wind and potentially different configurations, but my view of the course is that there remains a lot of power in the west and I think that is why we are seeing Dongfeng wanting control of the west.

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5 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

I think you are dreaming if you think with the current conditions and forecast anybody is going left of CV. I think the different angles are because of local wind and potentially different configurations, but my view of the course is that there remains a lot of power in the west and I think that is why we are seeing Dongfeng wanting control of the west.

Obviously, Dongfeng is heading 216° because he can with a wind at 80°
it is probably localy and will not last long. But it is clearly a benefit
(as Vestas had 1 hour before, btw)
I dunno if Herman was dreaming but as he said : "he need to recover a bit " ;-)

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20 minutes ago, MaxDog said:

What is "two-six" that the crews say?

I was told when I was a middy with the navy (Royal Navy) by old salts that it was that gunner 2 & 6 would heave out the cannon when re-loaded but this was purely anecdotal.

Wikipedia states that this would be impossible although the guns were on wheels and the rope to pull them out was on a black and tackle.

Perhaps just folklore but in all the time I have been sailing (around 50 years) this call has been in evidence.

It does have a good rhythm in that 2,6 allows preparation for the effort and repositioning.

Just my tuppence worth

SS

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Every time I watch the onboard video, it makes me think 'what miserable frigging boats'.  They could have picked a 70-80 foot trimaran with half the crew count and been high and dry in the doghouse for all this instead of wearing a snorkle in the semi submersible submarine of a boat they are on now.

Gabart is living large in his bunk in the back of the boat and working the lines and grinding from and enclosed cockpit.

All hail the fish people of the VOR!!!!

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33 minutes ago, MaxDog said:

What is "two-six" that the crews say?

 

29 minutes ago, jbc said:

One thing is certain there will always be debate between the English and the French on the origins of maritime phrases or words, in this case "two-six" versus "toutes six houle" (all six heave) 

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@Loose Cannon Funny. Enjoyed my flight across the Atlantic, looking down  and sympathizing with those that used to sail across. It was a bit bumpy over Ireland, but oh well. 

Anyway, anyone figure out why Tropical Storm Rina doesn't show on the tracker? Noticed it in Herman's pics, and in Windy, but puzzled by the tracker.5a024da326bfb_ScreenShot2017-11-07at5_35_35PM.png.1ccb122ba177c92194041b4217b451fc.png

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14 minutes ago, Loose Cannon said:

Every time I watch the onboard video, it makes me think 'what miserable frigging boats'.  They could have picked a 70-80 foot trimaran with half the crew count and been high and dry in the doghouse for all this instead of wearing a snorkle in the semi submersible submarine of a boat they are on now.

Gabart is living large in his bunk in the back of the boat and working the lines and grinding from and enclosed cockpit.

All hail the fish people of the VOR!!!!

 

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18 minutes ago, stief said:

Anyway, anyone figure out why Tropical Storm Rina doesn't show on the tracker?

I think it's tracking North.  You can see it in a pressure overlay but not on this Tracker.  Wind on the Tracker is not very accurate I've found.

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Well, the red circle in the pic posted above is where it is supposed to be. Roughly 34N, 50W. Here's what Windy shows. Ignore White dot. approx area of fleet is further east in the brown5a02547730928_ScreenShot2017-11-07at5_55_31PM.png.41572477130f2e9e8ded761af6468865.png

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1 minute ago, stief said:

Here's what Windy shows.

That's where I saw it.  I don't know exactly what the Tracker is supposed to be showing?  Sea level?  Higher up?  But it's off if you compare it to other weather forecasts.

Take a look at the Tracker for the TJV.

Screen Shot 2017-11-08 at 12.54.43 AM.png

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Vestas 11th Hour and the Header of God:

5a0256c291b2a_ScreenShot2017-11-07at4_51_49PM.png.0768b92756d925a840c58207481aacf0.png

 

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@SC Got it. Probably just a cache issue in Alicante. Oh well. Great Circle is good with weather, but will keep watching in case it's a bug. Thanks for the confirmation that it's not just my current setup.

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1 hour ago, Loose Cannon said:

Every time I watch the onboard video, it makes me think 'what miserable frigging boats'.  They could have picked a 70-80 foot trimaran with half the crew count and been high and dry in the doghouse for all this instead of wearing a snorkle in the semi submersible submarine of a boat they are on now.

Gabart is living large in his bunk in the back of the boat and working the lines and grinding from and enclosed cockpit.

All hail the fish people of the VOR!!!!

Mmmmmm you know what, dummy? 

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1 hour ago, Loose Cannon said:

'what miserable frigging boats'.  They could have picked a 70-80 foot trimaran

 

1 hour ago, Loose Cannon said:

All hail the fish people of the VOR!!!!

Thats funny. The fish people don't have to rely on hull mounted escape hatches though.

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1 hour ago, Loose Cannon said:

Every time I watch the onboard video, it makes me think 'what miserable frigging boats'.  They could have picked a 70-80 foot trimaran with half the crew count and been high and dry in the doghouse for all this instead of wearing a snorkle in the semi submersible submarine of a boat they are on now.

Gabart is living large in his bunk in the back of the boat and working the lines and grinding from and enclosed cockpit.

All hail the fish people of the VOR!!!!

How many times would a member of the public want to tune in to see someone 'sitting comfortably in the warm and dry?

It is a (sad) fact we (as a species) appear to take a delight in seeing others discomfort - why otherwise would the likes of "I'm a Celebrity, Get me out of here" be so popular.

No viewers or hits then no marketing ROI for the sponsors. No Sponsors - no race.

I do agree with you though, Loose Cannon be nice to have a blast on these boats (I can say from personal experience) but ............for 3-4 weeks at a time? Nah!

Maybe not quite fish people but definitely something special, especially those who want to go again AND when they are into their 50s - a hell of a way to pay the mortgage.

SS

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The backmarkers are making it the race of two cities. Dee looking to pull a rabbit out of the hat by going early while Witty is hunting pressure off Nova Scotia. The dudes in the middle are irrelevant just at the moment.

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1 hour ago, jbc said:

Vestas 11th Hour and the Header of God:

5a0256c291b2a_ScreenShot2017-11-07at4_51_49PM.png.0768b92756d925a840c58207481aacf0.png

 

Benefits of having a wind company as the corporate sponsor...

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1 hour ago, jbc said:

Vestas 11th Hour and the Header of God:

5a0256c291b2a_ScreenShot2017-11-07at4_51_49PM.png.0768b92756d925a840c58207481aacf0.png

 

The Paintwagon was all over them like a rash 12 hours ago, and looking ready to pass..then took their foot off the throat and didn't follow. Salter will be kicking himself.

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52 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

Thats funny. The fish people don't have to rely on hull mounted escape hatches though.

They do have one escape hatch at the transom on the centerline in case the keels falls off. Is it important if they rely on it or not?

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Amazing difference in courses from hunting the wind (Vestas and DF) vs to steering a course (everyone else).   Which is faster??

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1 hour ago, NotSoFast said:

They do have one escape hatch at the transom on the centerline in case the keels falls off. Is it important if they rely on it or not?

Last resort.. upside down at night inside a bucking black carbon cavern and having to crawl back there would be less than fun. However the will to live would be strong, if only to track down the prick who put you on that reef that ripped the keel off.

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i don't know,

 Vestas is starting to show they're a player...

 consistent competitive speed and angle

  smart tactician calls  (leg 1 & 2 so far)

  good boat moral and no fuck ups.

i wouldn't count them out for the overall...

 

  

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5 minutes ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

Vestas is starting to show they're a player.

Last 12 hours SiFi earnt his money, you have to be in the right post/zipcode to get kissed on the dick like that.

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8 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

What part of "up in the lulls and down in the puffs did they all forget?"  

agree,  i'm actually surprised they sail such high angles at 25+ kts tws.

Kenny, you a gorge sailor?  my bro lives in Portlnd, big hood river rider.

 love that place!

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Got a few scars from the Gorge but mostly PDX keelboats and North.  Figure I'll save kiting the gorge for retirement.  Double Damned is badass. 

Thread drift off:  DF reached up to the wind and it's good to see TTOP gybe back.  Still gotta get west.

Given the local oscillations, I wonder whats the best way to nav that shit?

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2 hours ago, Miffy said:

Damn Nico really Turned the Tide didn't he? 

Nico not a happy chappy. Teapot and Nicho must be very pissed off letting Vestus get away...seem to have located the warp speed button this morning.

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Vestas have more than a shot at the overall. SIFI and Pascal are easily the two best Navs in the race. 

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4 minutes ago, R15 said:

Vestas have more than a shot at the overall. SIFI and Pascal are easily the two best Navs in the race. 

There is a stack of good navigators this race... just because these two are in front right now does in no way mean they are “easily the two best Navs in the race”. Andrew Cape, Joan Villa, Simon Fisher, Pascal Bidegorry, Jules Salter are all highly desired navigators for a reason... Even Nicolas Lunven(TTOP) who is a comparatively lower profile nav has a Solitaire de Figaro win and two podium overall finishes. 

 

All those guys are out there for a reason.

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Both my intelligence and humorous tank are running empty just at the moment.

 Therefore I thought I would borrow from a discussion with a pro photo journalist about the use of drones in sailing vids. Particularly relevant here with OBR's bolted in for the ride.

Many in the mainstream sailing vid genre don't use drones the way the they should. For instance tracking a sailboat as it goes through narrow and shallow places has far more impact than the obligatory boat with bone in its teeth, postcard shots and long distance vids of their girlfriends tits/arse. 

The best example of the manouvering in tight places is this, and while a couple of years old now, I haven't seen it bettered. That or I'm a Temptations tragic.

Very slick driving and crew work backing the jib in the corners.

Now that's fine when close to the bricks and manouvering. However what about when you're in the wide open spaces all by yourself in a ROR race? Still the same really. 

Drone shots are much more intertaining if a manoeuvre is involved. In this case TtT crew doing a "two-six" to move the stack ..then a gybe.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/1605.html

I haven't seen too much of the above approach "offshore" in the VOR drone vids to date, other than that one.

Anyway back to racing.

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38 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I haven't seen too much of the above approach "offshore" in the VOR drone vids to date, other than that one.

 

It's Norway style :D  

The whole drone topic was mentioned in the mr Clean broadcast earlier. They are not sure if the teams have a backup drone and if not, the OBR might be a little cautious using it. But I hope we can expect some better drone videos as we go along and as the OBRs simply get better and more creative using them.

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8 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

I think you are dreaming if you think with the current conditions and forecast anybody is going left of CV. I think the different angles are because of local wind and potentially different configurations, but my view of the course is that there remains a lot of power in the west and I think that is why we are seeing Dongfeng wanting control of the west.

Left as in north up map view, leave CV to port.

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I'm not a pilot and have only really flown on airliners, helicopters and gliders. But have casual talk with drone operators. 

If the wind is 25knots and boat is doing 21 knots on nice running angle, a drone that only does 40knots will be really challenging to launch, do a circle and recover. Easier when boat is gybing or tacking. Deploy it fly it to expected location and wait for boat to catch-up. 

If the boat is not changing course, drone will need to fight a 30° tailwind at 25 knots to stay on a straight course ahead. Then hover and try to land with sailor crew helping grab the drone. 

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20 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I'm afraid Dongfeng doesn't have the speed to win overall.

Yep ..Charles not having his shoelaces done up tight at the Skippers briefing was the first sign.

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23 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I'm afraid Dongfeng doesn't have the speed to win overall.

Here we go again. You really don't know or understand anything and you don't learn from your past stupidity. Last time you said that, you went to sleep and woke up with Dongfeng in the lead, unable to understand what had happened. I am not sure what the basis of your assertion really is, but if you are looking at the last 6 hours r so, did you notice they have been sailing in different wind than the others? There are a lot of clueless people on here (maybe myself included :P), but you make everybody look like world class sailors by comparison.

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16 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

It's Norway style :D  

The whole drone topic was mentioned in the mr Clean broadcast earlier. They are not sure if the teams have a backup drone and if not, the OBR might be a little cautious using it. But I hope we can expect some better drone videos as we go along and as the OBRs simply get better and more creative using them.

No worries, we will see a lot of dolldrum drone footage coming of boats in a glassy sea in a couple of days. Retrieving a drone while you are moving at the boat speeds of the past days and ploughing into waves is an almost certain fail.

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5 minutes ago, Herman said:

we will see a lot of dolldrum drone footage coming of boats in a glassy sea in a couple of days.

Herm providing they have enough gas left in the tank after using them to go chase breeze :-)

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25 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

 

How can DF sail in a different wind when they are only seperated by 12 nm west to east? That makes no sense from you.

 

The wind can be different even only meters apart.

Again: you should try the VOR Game, where you can apply your own navigation and tactics. I seriously mean this, it's something I learned a lot from during the last race - how to be patient and not try to be in the front all the time.

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25 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

How can DF sail in a different wind when they are only seperated by 12 nm west to east. That makes no sense from you.

10nm of east-west separation is having a big impact on the wind experienced onboard @DongfengRacing compared to @Vestas11thHour, resulting in higher angles to maintain same speed #watchlog

 
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54 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

Here we go again. You really don't know or understand anything and you don't learn from your past stupidity.

 

49 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

How can DF sail in a different wind when they are only seperated by 12 nm west to east? That makes no sense from you.

I will help settle this argument using mathematics, not emotion. 

Rig Height: V65 30m. RC Class 0.6m.

Distance: 12nm or 22,000m. Olympic Pool Width 25m.

Correction: 22,000/30 =  734. 25/0.6 = 42 

Comparative Correction: 734/42 = 17

Pool Correction: 25m × 17 = 436m or 0.24nm

So surely Aliguist you can appreciate more than anyone that there is going to be some pressure difference over a hypothetical pool width of 0.24nm, surely.

Crikey the diving board alone in a standard pool introduces some pretty interesting wind shear down that 100m long track.

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4 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't need a Virtual Game. I will always tell how I see it and people need to get used to it.

Well, it uses real weather data so it's pretty realistic and fun, and you can discuss with other players right here in this forum.

But of course if you choose to continue being the village idiot here it's your choice. I'm just trying to help.

 

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9 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

I will help settle this argument using mathematics. 

Rig Height: V65 30m. RC Class 0.6m.

Distance: 12nm or 22,000m. Olympic Pool Width 25m.

Correction: 22,000/30 =  734. 25/0.6 = 42 

Comparative Correction: 734/42 = 17

Pool Correction: 25m × 17 = 436m or 0.24nm

So surely Aliguist you can appreciate more than anyone that there is going to be some pressure difference over a hypothetical pool width of 0.24nm, surely.

Crikey the diving board alone in a standard pool introduces some pretty interesting wind shear down that 100m long track.

 

 

That was funny... 

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41 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

How can DF sail in a different wind when they are only seperated by 12 nm west to east? That makes no sense from you.

You really don't sail, do you. 12nm and you think the conditions would be the same? You really are stupid. To start with, why does the race tracker on the Volvo site show a wind speed difference between Dongfeng and Vestas of 5.6 knots and a different angle. They are only 12nm apart, so according to you they should be in the same wind.

Simply, you are clueless.

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15 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Well, it uses real weather data so it's pretty realistic and fun, and you can discuss with other players right here in this forum.

Nooooo, please. The game thread is really nice. He can use the game, but no need to discuss his racing.

But he is really begging to land on ignore lists.

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13 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

BUT you need to register for the Virtual Game, no?

 

Yes, but it's not much work - you can DO it :) Maybe a little late to start now, but you could start the leg from Cape Town and already now plan your strategy.....you should have a look at the VOR Game thread here and get an idea of it.

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2 minutes ago, Marty6 said:

Nooooo, please. The game thread is really nice. He can use the game, but no need to discuss his racing.

But he is really begging to land on ignore lists.

Sorry.....since I'm not playing this edition I won't be bothered......I admit to being ego :P

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Looks like Witty found a place at the back.
I hoped that TTT given the position they were in gambled for an eastern lane. Moving west was expensive. (risk vs relatively safe 6th place.)

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I'm wondering two about two things.

  1. How the navigator survives on a Witty boat?
  2. How the token female survives on a Witty boat?

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I'm reminded of a main trimmer I once sailed with during a championship.

We rounded the final leeward mark to port with a decent lead and headed off to the favoured right side of the course on port tack. The boat in second who was about two hundred metres behind followed. Then we got a bit of a left shift and the boat in second started to look better. The main trimmer seeing this starts communicating his angst to the driver who then starts rubber necking. I'm not happy, the main trimmer is putting the shits up the helm.

Time to take action. Quitely in the trimmers ear, "shut the fuck up and concentrate on your sail trim," to the helm, "you're doing fine, just keep sailing the boat." Next the breeze shifts back and all is well.

Who does the main trimmer remind you of?

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Ah suffering with the nerves....

I had somebody else in mind............. knee jerk reactions......

Still very good of you to take the rap for him.......

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12 minutes ago, random said:

I'm wondering two about two things.

  1. How the navigator survives on a Witty boat?
  2. How the token female survives on a Witty boat?

Both have sailed with him before and love riding on a boat with him.

Next Question.

PS Dare you to say "your a token female" to Bessy face to face if you can look up that far.

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Hey LB how the fuck would you know?

 

Skipper of Hong Kong boat Team Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag takes from one team and then gives back so they can start the 45,000 nautical-mile adventure

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12 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Oh you are still convinced I am LB's sock or visa versa. We are both mortified at that thought. I do know you're not very bright though pig of steel.

Nice dodge about the token female.  She must have had to bite her tongue at that first meeting. 

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1 hour ago, random said:

Witty must be taking an ego bashing.

I'll second you on that

delta DTL.png

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't need a Virtual Game. I will always tell how I see it and people need to get used to it.

Fine, but when a lot of people see it differently, they could have a point too maybe? I posted last night that DFRT and Vestas seem to have a different wind while being 14 nm laterally separated, the Race Experts backed that up today via Twitter. Hey, but I'm just a guy posting here. 

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1 hour ago, Team_GBR said:

You really don't sail, do you. 12nm and you think the conditions would be the same? You really are stupid. To start with, why does the race tracker on the Volvo site show a wind speed difference between Dongfeng and Vestas of 5.6 knots and a different angle. They are only 12nm apart, so according to you they should be in the same wind.

Simply, you are clueless.

That.

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Hmm, it seems that last nights gain from Vestas was not just a lucky punch, but something they expected (at least hoped for).
http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/1625.html

They seem to be doing a lot of things right.
It would be nice if they at least make it to the podium. That would be a great comeback for the sponsor, and maybe even motivate them to do  one more.
 

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1 hour ago, random said:

I'm wondering two about two things.

  1. How the navigator survives on a Witty boat?
  2. How the token female survives on a Witty boat?

1. Wait until Neptune arrives

2. The token female has reached out the Witt because she understood that she was not going to sail much legs with Simeon. Bes has sailed a lot with Scallywag. SH for one if I'm accurate. 

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I don't need a Virtual Game. I will always tell how I see it and people need to get used to it.

Truly a special kind of idiot:wacko:

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