Grainger R42 - 12.8mts Performance Cruiser Trimaran

[Indian Chief 34]

Hey Pil, with the small size of your jib, i'd be going furling with vertical battens as i have on TG. It's easy on the crew, fast put away and simple. You'd be hard pressed to ever have to reef your jib, surely its good upwind up to 30+ knots? Unlike monos, reef your main heaps first. We will sail TG with two reefs and full jib in 35 knots then i might put a few rolls in the jib furler but the shape is then crap (which my sailmaker is working on a possible solution) however it happens so in frequent it doesn't matter the boat still goes upwind like a steam train just not as high on the breeze. If it got real nasty i'd have to take the jib off the foil and go to a storm jib or a blade i have but never use. The nice thing about catamarans is we have plenty of deck space to do such sail changes in shit conditions. 

 

I'm not so sure about the solution on the R42 as when using the jib the staysail will be annoying when racing and tacking in short course racing which will be more often than not. Unless i'm not understanding that the staysail stay/sail is removable to allow jib to tack easily?

[PIL66 - XL2 801]

49 minutes ago, Indian Chief said:

Hey Pil, with the small size of your jib, i'd be going furling with vertical battens as i have on TG. It's easy on the crew, fast put away and simple. You'd be hard pressed to ever have to reef your jib, surely its good upwind up to 30+ knots? Unlike monos, reef your main heaps first. We will sail TG with two reefs and full jib in 35 knots then i might put a few rolls in the jib furler but the shape is then crap (which my sailmaker is working on a possible solution) however it happens so in frequent it doesn't matter the boat still goes upwind like a steam train just not as high on the breeze. If it got real nasty i'd have to take the jib off the foil and go to a storm jib or a blade i have but never use. The nice thing about catamarans is we have plenty of deck space to do such sail changes in shit conditions. 

 

I'm not so sure about the solution on the R42 as when using the jib the staysail will be annoying when racing and tacking in short course racing which will be more often than not. Unless i'm not understanding that the staysail stay/sail is removable to allow jib to tack easily?

Yep ... makes sense 

I was wondering about the R42 Staysail arrangement

[boardhead 201]

We used to carry a conservative area full battened jib - which still had the boat powered up in 12  - 15 knots but there was too big a gap from the furling windward reacher so had a bigger, reefing, horizontal batten hank on sail made and for our purposes it woks like a charm.

I also really don't like self tacking jibs. For me it's about not being able to stop the boat. It's very easy to just throw the helm down, put the boats head through the wind without touching the sheets then dump the traveller and the boat just sits like a duck with the helm to lee.  

Mike McMullen in his excellent book on all things multihull recounts recovering his crew after he was swept off the fore deck of Three Cheers using this maneuver. 

[SeaGul 48]

7 hours ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

I had a self tacking Jib on 66 (Cynaphobe) and not on XL2. I prefer the it be NOT be self tacking. I sail mainly in the ocean with swell and rely heavily on backing the jib to tack.
..

Yes on a cat that make sense - but most tris tack easy....

[SeaGul 48]

5 hours ago, boardhead said:

We used to carry a conservative area full battened jib - which still had the boat powered up in 12  - 15 knots but there was too big a gap from the furling windward reacher so had a bigger, reefing, horizontal batten hank on sail made and for our purposes it woks like a charm.

I also really don't like self tacking jibs. For me it's about not being able to stop the boat. It's very easy to just throw the helm down, put the boats head through the wind without touching the sheets then dump the traveller and the boat just sits like a duck with the helm to lee.  

Mike McMullen in his excellent book on all things multihull recounts recovering his crew after he was swept off the fore deck of Three Cheers using this maneuver. 

Did that on my IF long time ago - sailing alone - going to the crapper.....   But never tried with the trimaran - one could have a traveller arrangement on the self-tacking jib...    But the Back Marlin with the self tacking bigger jib - that a new one? One problem with a genua on the forestay is to sheet it properly in without getting problem with the shrouds - will no be a problem with that arrangement.

[Lowgroove 20]

Hi Boys

6 hours ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

Yep ... makes sense 

I was wondering about the R42 Staysail arrangement

Hi Boys,

Since the boat is a racer and cruiser it will have to modes.

The Jib is way bigger than both of your boats have so will need to change down at some point in the wind range.

The Staysail is on a Facnor internal Halyard lock, it has its own stay in the luff, vertical battens and also a UV strip, so this sail can be lowered in race mode or kept hoisted in cruise mode for easy gear changes.

This halyard/lock/ base 3:1 arrangement then also accepts the furling Storm Jib, so you can switch these two sails out, the Jib must stay hoisted as it zips onto the forestay as it has an 8T Profurl Structural furler on the forestay.

The Jib also has vertical battens and a UV strip and will be likely used up to 20 knots true in race mode, maybe 25 knots but time will tell.

The Upwind Screecher will then be out in front of all that, no UV to be dropped when not in use just like you boys do.

[boardhead 201]

So on my St Francis we have a vertical batten furling/reefing sail on a Facnor tape drive furler with the heavier, old school alloy foil over 1x19 st.st - which I don't trust - the shrouds, runners and checkstays are spectra. Obviously a barge compared to Skateaway but you still gotta try - right. The jib is not self tacking, I run two sheets each side with four strong points so the sail can be trimmed properly way inboard and out. The sail is actually oversized such that it is only fully deployed cracked off and gets rolled up a couple turns hard on the wind. The battens are long and the sail has a decent amount of roach. Playing with a production boat there are lots of constraints and compromises but perseverance pays off. What with recycling old battened headsails off Skateaway, sailmakers screw ups from other boats, the original genoa crap and the Mk1 and Mk2 vertical batten sails the current sail is the sixth in the "making a barge go fast" program. This last season we were very close, quicker at time, upwind in 25 apparent and chop than a well sailed and rigged Dragonfly 1000 - amazing what great sails and attention to detail can do!

The windward reacher on this boat is stretchy, 2.2 oz nylon then the jib takes over up to 50 knots. Having those vertical battens creates defined reef points where each batten at the forestay really helps out the concentrated leech loading, on this platform those loads are up there.

We have a storm jib on hanks for back up.

[Vincent DePillis 7]

10 hours ago, Lowgroove said:

The Upwind Screecher will then be out in front of all that, no UV to be dropped when not in use just like you boys do.

Doyle has been working on a "cableless" style of code zero/screecher.  I am very interested in figuring seeing if this could help with my F31 upwind in light air. Did you look into that at all?

[newbiesporty 18]

On 10/12/2019 at 2:51 AM, Vincent DePillis said:

Doyle has been working on a "cableless" style of code zero/screecher.  I am very interested in figuring seeing if this could help with my F31 upwind in light air. Did you look into that at all?

Hi Vincent,

Ill let Low Groove get his teeth into answering this however I will say that all of the big companies have their own versions of this system now.

The term "cableless" is a bit of a misnomer and the system has a by product of not being suitable for a large percentage of applications.

Ill let the full-time sailmaker take that further... I'm just the part time guy

[Vincent DePillis 7]

10 hours ago, newbiesporty said:

Hi Vincent,

IThe term "cableless" is a bit of a misnomer and the system has a by product of not being suitable for a large percentage of applications.

 

Do tell.

[PIL66 - XL2 801]

On 10/12/2019 at 3:51 AM, Vincent DePillis said:

Doyle has been working on a "cableless" style of code zero/screecher.  I am very interested in figuring seeing if this could help with my F31 upwind in light air. Did you look into that at all?

The Doyle system does work well and I'm sure will get better.  Others are following.

Comanche swapped their North J1 (hank on) to a Doyle J1 cable less system and they are so far very happy with the way it works. Deploying and retrieval is easier, It folds to a smaller package making it easier to store and move but the real advantage is the weight saving and the speed at which the crew can change gears.... The 100's foredeck sails are big things for humans to lug around.. 

[Indian Chief 34]

On 10/11/2019 at 5:15 PM, Lowgroove said:

Hi Boys

Hi Boys,

Since the boat is a racer and cruiser it will have to modes.

The Jib is way bigger than both of your boats have so will need to change down at some point in the wind range.

The Staysail is on a Facnor internal Halyard lock, it has its own stay in the luff, vertical battens and also a UV strip, so this sail can be lowered in race mode or kept hoisted in cruise mode for easy gear changes.

This halyard/lock/ base 3:1 arrangement then also accepts the furling Storm Jib, so you can switch these two sails out, the Jib must stay hoisted as it zips onto the forestay as it has an 8T Profurl Structural furler on the forestay.

The Jib also has vertical battens and a UV strip and will be likely used up to 20 knots true in race mode, maybe 25 knots but time will tell.

The Upwind Screecher will then be out in front of all that, no UV to be dropped when not in use just like you boys do.

Seems like a cool solution so long as the crews make the hard work changes setting up the staysail as the conditions change. I love my new Facnor internal lock on my screecher. TG is a different boat since the lock went in. Just don't feel that ugly load trying to break the boat now when the upwind screecher is up. We've had no issues with the lock at all. To the point now I'm thinking of putting one on the main next, but still wary of the SCENARIO of building breeze, offshore late at night and the lock won't let go because it hasn't been cleaned/serviced and ceases up....

Do you think that's a fair concern Lowgroove? 

[PIL66 - XL2 801]

6 hours ago, Indian Chief said:

Seems like a cool solution so long as the crews make the hard work changes setting up the staysail as the conditions change. I love my new Facnor internal lock on my screecher. TG is a different boat since the lock went in. Just don't feel that ugly load trying to break the boat now when the upwind screecher is up. We've had no issues with the lock at all. To the point now I'm thinking of putting one on the main next, but still wary of the SCENARIO of building breeze, offshore late at night and the lock won't let go because it hasn't been cleaned/serviced and ceases up....

Do you think that's a fair concern Lowgroove? 

I've been using mainsail locks for 20 years most weeks on the monos and can only remember having one problem....From wear on the lock release line through age ..... it hasn't happened again so I'm a fan of them..

 If I had the money everything would be on locks.... but locks aint locks....
you get what you pay for.. ours have all been Harken

 

[nmanno 5]

57 minutes ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

I've been using mainsail locks for 20 years most weeks on the monos and can only remember having one problem....From wear on the lock release line through age ..... it hasn't happened again so I'm a fan of them..

 If I had the money everything would be on locks.... but locks aint locks....
you get what you pay for.. ours have all been Harken

 

Thanks for that, what mainsail locks do you use and recommend, the ones with trip line or the one that are self-releasing? Good jib and screecher locks are plentiful and I use Karver ones but mainsail ones are more difficult to find in my view.

[Lowgroove 20]

On 10/12/2019 at 2:51 AM, Vincent DePillis said:

Doyle has been working on a "cableless" style of code zero/screecher.  I am very interested in figuring seeing if this could help with my F31 upwind in light air. Did you look into that at all?

This is a very interesting development happening and all the majour brands have Multiple versions of this New/Old technology depending on the sails apparent wind sailing angle. There is loads of propaganda around and I am wary of saying too much here, what I will say is just my take, not a company policy or view and is quite possibly not correct or soon will be made inncorrect by the continual development happening.

The use of the word Cabless seems flat out wrong to me, so far even if they were originally test sailed with no cable all rhe sails I have seen have ended up with luff cables, all be it smaller, but still cables, being called by ither names. Holding a mast up by a sail only is an amazing feat but does not interest me much. Having to keep your expensive forestay still there in front of the sail taking some of the load and therefore allowing sag in a sail is also not something I am interested in (unless looking for more entry depth)and we are seeing this as a current solution being used for the J1 on the Big boat Pil mentioned I believe. combined tack load is therefore actually no less in this example for the J1, so what is the advantage for an upwind sail?

This technology is mainly seeing gains in the area between a Code Zero and a A3, when the mid girth over 75% is required, these sails struggle to get a smooth leech exit and meet the required girth (this is why non rated boats like Imoca or Volvo have had such great reaching sails designed without girth restrictions effecting the design) by putting more structure in the luff and load sharing with a much smaller cable the sails luff can project forward (no longer a taught straight line)allowing for the leech girth to come forward and allowing flatter and straighter exits that make very fast sails. There can be advantages in the luff entry shape also, alowing a finer entry and sailing closer to the wind can be the result essentially gaining a wider range of use than a traditiinal tight cable sail. All sounds great in theory and with a top pro crew on a boat like s Maxi 72, but the sails require more trimming and faster reactions and trim and helm, when the new "Cabless" luff then collapses on a sail sailing at between 50-80 degrees apparent it is going to probably flog like a bitch until fully sheeted back on to set the luff and it will feel like your rig is going to step off the side of the boat. Also bear in mind dropping down cable size is great news for a TP owner taking that stay from a 6k item to a 3k spend (even though he already owns the 6k cable from his previous sail)but in Multihull land where most boats use lower end Torque cables that cost 1-1.5k the new "baby" cable plus the extra cost in the new luff construction required to share the load makes this technology pretty expensive. It all sounds great and I will sell some of these sails but at this point they are getting sorted at the pro level sailing, more developments to come and I don't think they are for every application.

I do look forward to seeing what can be achieved with these sails in the coming years.

 

[Lowgroove 20]

8 hours ago, Indian Chief said:

Seems like a cool solution so long as the crews make the hard work changes setting up the staysail as the conditions change. I love my new Facnor internal lock on my screecher. TG is a different boat since the lock went in. Just don't feel that ugly load trying to break the boat now when the upwind screecher is up. We've had no issues with the lock at all. To the point now I'm thinking of putting one on the main next, but still wary of the SCENARIO of building breeze, offshore late at night and the lock won't let go because it hasn't been cleaned/serviced and ceases up....

Do you think that's a fair concern Lowgroove? 

Chief I am sure your rig is thanking you every time you hoist the sail.

The Main lock options are a bit harder, most have slots in the track and trip lines, I believe there is an Antal head car and track inserts that could work for your boat, but I remember a couple of boats in SA having ongoing issues with them.

Any riggers out there that can suggest the range of Main Halyard lock options? The reefs complicate it as needs to lock at different heights unlike all the front sails. 

[gurok 22]

10 hours ago, Lowgroove said:

Chief I am sure your rig is thanking you every time you hoist the sail.

The Main lock options are a bit harder, most have slots in the track and trip lines, I believe there is an Antal head car and track inserts that could work for your boat, but I remember a couple of boats in SA having ongoing issues with them.

Any riggers out there that can suggest the range of Main Halyard lock options? The reefs complicate it as needs to lock at different heights unlike all the front sails. 

On the TR36 I have hooks at deck level on the mast for all sails including the mainsail. The halyards are all fixed length. Reefs in main are handled by a mainsail halyard comprising fixed length sections, each with its own loop pertaining to a reef point and drop/hoist length. To reef the main I ease the downhaul/cunningham, unhook the mainsail halyard from its current hook and lower the halyard until I come across the next loop, hook on and then apply downhaul. My mainsail halyard has colour coded sections, each pertains to the colour of the associated reefline. Minimal faffing and easy to sort when tired..

 

 

[EarthBM 55]

6 minutes ago, gurok said:

On the TR36 I have hooks at deck level on the mast for all sails including the mainsail. The halyards are all fixed length. Reefs in main are handled by a mainsail halyard comprising fixed length sections, each with its own loop pertaining to a reef point and drop/hoist length. To reef the main I ease the downhaul/cunningham, unhook the mainsail halyard from its current hook and lower the halyard until I come across the next loop, hook on and then apply downhaul. My mainsail halyard has colour coded sections, each pertains to the colour of the associated reefline. Minimal faffing and easy to sort when tired..

 

 

Do you have a picture of this main halyard with loops in action?

[gurok 22]

1 hour ago, EarthBM said:

Do you have a picture of this main halyard with loops in action?

I shall walk to boat in morning and take some for you

 

 

[PIL66 - XL2 801]

15 hours ago, nmanno said:

Thanks for that, what mainsail locks do you use and recommend, the ones with trip line or the one that are self-releasing? Good jib and screecher locks are plentiful and I use Karver ones but mainsail ones are more difficult to find in my view.

I only have experience with the Harken system.... 

13 hours ago, Lowgroove said:

 

The use of the word Cabless seems flat out wrong to me, so far even if they were originally test sailed with no cable all rhe sails I have seen have ended up with luff cables, all be it smaller, but still cables, being called by ither names. Holding a mast up by a sail only is an amazing feat but does not interest me much. Having to keep your expensive forestay still there in front of the sail taking some of the load and therefore allowing sag in a sail is also not something I am interested in (unless looking for more entry depth)and we are seeing this as a current solution being used for the J1 on the Big boat Pil mentioned I believe. combined tack load is therefore actually no less in this example for the J1, so what is the advantage for an upwind sail?

.

 

Advantage on a multi up to 50ft is not much... The advantage for cable less upwind sails on the bigger boats like Comanche is huge. Weight saving is one.. the other is the ability to get it up and down much quicker with 6 less guys on the fore deck. This used to be hanked on so imagine the drop when the breeze kicks and having to bag this sucker on the leeward rail then get it back to the cockpit... now two guys hook it on and control the roll for the hoist and then retrieve it when done... also meaning the time it takes to change down and up a gear is way less... plus It is stored in a shorter bag.  It is very cool........ WIN WIN

https://yachtracing.life/doyle-sails-cableless-headsails-deliver-results/

13 hours ago, Lowgroove said:

 

 The reefs complicate it as needs to lock at different heights unlike all the front sails. 

Yes you get used to it....The trip line just needs to be held down / open while the lock goes through all reef points when dropping at the end of the day... 

[gurok 22]

14 hours ago, gurok said:

I shall walk to boat in morning and take some for you

 

 

Generally unpleasant this morning with rain and wind so no sail hoist but I took enough pictures for you to get the gist of the system

Mast hooks. All the load taken by bar that runs horizontally through mast. Carbon tabs just there to stop things slipping off.

2:1 mainsail halyard in sections linked with spliced loops. Each section length equates to reef drop

[boardhead 201]

The halyard can be run through a clutch, then past a cleat, round a turning block back to the winch.

Hoist to desired position, clutch (they don’t hold shit and are not even very strong but can secure the unloaded halyard), take the line off the winch and make it down on the cleat, release the clutch and apply downhaul.

The cleat is gentle on your expensive, high tech, halyard. It is secure. It can be eased under load without any damage to the line and re-secured at any increment. Way more convenient to use. That single stud anchor on the spliced loop is questionable.The line can be set at any length, those fixed length cables will be tough to size spot on.

Are we still talking about this Grainger?

[SSolo 82]

compare with my Seacart 30. "Buzz" . we are 1100Kg in offshore race trim... and so far Morpheus and Freshly Squeezed have yet to really worry us : yes up wind in a sea way length beats us... off wind we have it.

But then Buzz's crew are certifiable insane :-)

[yl75 753]

The boat has been painted red ? It is another one ?

Looks nice anyway !

[gurok 22]

1 hour ago, SSolo said:

compare with my Seacart 30. "Buzz" . we are 1100Kg in offshore race trim... and so far Morpheus and Freshly Squeezed have yet to really worry us : yes up wind in a sea way length beats us... off wind we have it.

But then Buzz's crew are certifiable insane :-)

So far every time I have gone sailing I have managed to worry myself and  so far I've yet to go sailing without breaking something /someone.

"But then Buzz's crew are certifiable insane :-)" and a lot less comfortable.

[SeaGul 48]

16 hours ago, SSolo said:

compare with my Seacart 30. "Buzz" . we are 1100Kg in offshore race trim... and so far Morpheus and Freshly Squeezed have yet to really worry us : yes up wind in a sea way length beats us... off wind we have it.

But then Buzz's crew are certifiable insane :-)

SeaCart 30 is really a legendary boat - that need some crazyness - and as the US use to say to other nations be polite (be fore Trump); "they punch way over their weight-class".... 

SeaCart is so well buildt and designed - that they can be sailed to max all the time - other boats need a couple of years to sort out before they get up to potential... 

[CBGB 3]

Can you tell us more about the downwind sail plan Lowgroove and the rationale around the choices you’ve made there? Thanks

[nmanno 5]

On 10/16/2019 at 5:48 PM, gurok said:

 

2:1 mainsail halyard in sections linked with spliced loops. Each section length equates to reef drop

This is so simple and genius! I love the simplicity. Whilst it won't reduce the compression load, I tend to like this KISS approach. So to be clear, on the picture above, you have the 2.1 mainsheet and 2 loops, The main halyard is composed of many such sections and so when you take a reef, you just go to the next loop and put that on the mast "hooks" and re-attach the cunningham and that's it? 

What are all the other mast hooks one can see on your pictures? Is that for the foresails?

[huey 2 331]

[huey 2 331]

[huey 2 331]

[samc99us 201]

Boat looks great at the dock! Tons of volume in the amas!

[gurok 22]

2 hours ago, nmanno said:

This is so simple and genius! I love the simplicity. Whilst it won't reduce the compression load, I tend to like this KISS approach. So to be clear, on the picture above, you have the 2.1 mainsheet and 2 loops, The main halyard is composed of many such sections and so when you take a reef, you just go to the next loop and put that on the mast "hooks" and re-attach the cunningham and that's it? 

What are all the other mast hooks one can see on your pictures? Is that for the foresails?

In answer to your questions.

Yes the main halyard has many such sections and yes I just drop to the next loop, apply downhaul and I'm done. No clutches, no guessing, nothing falling off of reef horns while I tighten stuff up.

Yes the other hooks are for foresails and kites. 

Rob Meizer of Barracouta sails was the "genius" behind it all on Freshly Squeezed 

[Floating Duck 85]

Holy crap well I don't really care if that Grainger can even sail well or fast but DAMN it looks FANTASTIC just sitting still!

If I had $26 in my bank account I would definitely buy one of these bad boys, just based on looks alone 

[Mordoc 6]

11 hours ago, Floating Duck said:

Holy crap well I don't really care if that Grainger can even sail well or fast but DAMN it looks FANTASTIC just sitting still!

If I had $26 in my bank account I would definitely buy one of these bad boys, just based on looks alone 

+1

But $26 will not make it. Any idea about the price?

[huey 2 331]

well Tony has left the building.....no photo of Boat testing while he was here

      so here is  a  G36  sailing....in light airs

[huey 2 331]

Tonys Newsletter has just been posted....no pics sailing yet, just in marina

  

VENOM TAKES TO THE WATER

R42 Trimaran Venom was launched on the Gold Coast in mid October and spent several days undergoing sea trials out of Southport Yacht Club. Venom was impressive in initial trials and is currently preparing to head south to Adelaide where where she will be based. The photos were taken during sailing preparation at Southport Yacht Club.

[huey 2 331]

A quick vid of a sailing Venom.....she has already clocked 21knots in 15-18 sloppy seas

https://www.facebook.com/venomsailing/videos/351426972315955/UzpfSTEwMDAwMDU0MTk3NTYwMDpWSzoxMDE1NjgxODYzMzc4OTUwMw/

 

[huey 2 331]

Stop press .   

Upwind in 15 knots keeping away from the boats in the Burleigh Bash. Meeting expected boat speed targets of 12-14 knots despite cruising mode and inner forestay not tensioned properly. Nice and smooth and mostly dry!

https://www.facebook.com/venomsailing/videos/416602225939502/

 

[huey 2 331]

https://www.facebook.com/venomsailing/videos/2389256418002863/?__tn__=%2CdkCH-R-R&eid=ARAh6tyqGLvoM1CF3rjgqkq42-eOgyUoESCcQf6275Lu9OiD2M1fb0fpQLngtUK580CKDZL1w4uQU5H_&hc_ref=ARR5Mnarh8Agfe-xeYSwrrvNxZACt83JN9O2mf_y0g9-kdAaLMswlRxRASAjb-HhJGI&hc_location=group

[huey 2 331]

https://www.facebook.com/ben.kelly.319452/videos/10212189817459464/UzpfSTIwMjQ5NzkyNzc3ODU1NTA6MjQ5NjkxMzg3NzI1ODc1Mg/

 

[huey 2 331]

https://www.facebook.com/ben.kelly.319452/videos/10212189893821373/UzpfSTIwMjQ5NzkyNzc3ODU1NTA6MjQ5NjkxMzYzNzI1ODc3Ng/

 

[huey 2 331]

https://www.facebook.com/ben.kelly.319452/videos/10212189764098130/UzpfSTEwMDAyMjQ1MDI3MTIzMzo1NTQ5ODM5MzE5MjY2MTE/?id=100022450271233&__tn__=%2Cd*F*F-R&eid=ARBnA60qiKUITeiG5x6wwIUEWnqKn9Fu0hOBuRwT5vKa4Le_2J5__g4lIQfgJNyuA3gmbhuMCDGTuq2U&tn-str=*F

 

[MRS OCTOPUS 102]

Has or willl Venom be measured for an OMR rating?

Love to see the specs. as measured.

[randii 77]

10/29 and 10/30, you posted the video descriptions... that was nice, and I appreciated it, so that I could evaluate whether I wanted to go over to ZuckerBook to view the corresponding video.

I'll go upvote those...

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 63]

11 hours ago, huey 2 said:

https://www.facebook.com/ben.kelly.319452/videos/10212189817459464/UzpfSTIwMjQ5NzkyNzc3ODU1NTA6MjQ5NjkxMzg3NzI1ODc1Mg/

 

Looks like it will meet the design prediction of flying the main hull in 12 knots of wind.

Another gem by Grainger

[boardhead 201]

Can we see some footage shot from the weather ama scoping bow to stern in a decent chop, at speed, to windward and see how much or little she pitches. Maybe at 27 apparent doing 14.

[Bruno 101]

On 10/7/2019 at 5:44 AM, samc99us said:

The rig does a look a little small. For reference, a local Corsair 43 was refit early in life with an 80' rotating carbon rig for better performance in light air. The Corsair 37RS has a 51' rig. In both cases the boats are a good bit heavier than the Grainger, and often sailing in areas with less breeze than Venom. Still, it would appear the floats can support a slightly larger rig, potentially with rig canting an option for race mode

Nearly 2:1

[basildog 4]

Re; Cost,

I've heard from a very reliable source (close mate of T.G.) that $2.5 million is the money.

 

[SeaGul 48]

2 hours ago, basildog said:

Re; Cost,

I've heard from a very reliable source (close mate of T.G.) that $2.5 million is the money.

 

Is that AUS money or US? Could that be correct? - seems very stiff even AUS $....

[boardhead 201]

Might explain why not too many 40 odd foot carbon trimarans are being built any more. 

[huey 2 331]

Venom in Cronulla,  she is on her way to her home in SA.....there was the SE change that was coming up the coast and was offered a spot .   You can see the bushfire smoke in the sky.... and the change caused the fires to change direction and flare up....a scary fire season , never seen conditions exacerbated by the worst drought inland,..and on the east coast of oz . The IOD the indian ocean dipole is showing the huge body of hot water  that is changing the monsoon season in se asia , which then translates to no rain laden wind system from the nw of oz....it will be a long and difficult summer

[MRS OCTOPUS 102]

Venom just rocked up in Eden.

Looking lovely. 

I take it there is a third central rudder as no float blades fitted or evident on deck??

[huey 2 331]

#VenomSailing reports on arrival at home port: Set off for Adelaide fro Potrland and had a mild first part of the delivery - just had to avoid the hundreds of unlit craypot buoys and their trailing lines all along the Limestone coast.
(Tip - most seem to be around 35m depth contours and none in water > 50m).
Hit by a stronger than expected westerly change at 0430 when not far north of Robe.
Was wet and wild in the squals but the boat handled it beautifully - solid and stable as a rock. 20knots seemed a bit much for a delivery so we slowed things down a bit.
Fantastic welcome on the dock from MYASA members - it was a great greeting and really apprecitefd."

[huey 2 331]

[boardhead 201]

Lotta mast (weight aloft) sticking out the top of that square top.

Short changed on the provided sail dimensions?

[DaveWalsh 1]

Anyone have pictures of how the front beam structure (post no 20) was integrated into the main bulkhead?

Surely not just glued on? How was it done? As shown in post number 20 it looks an engineering/structural nightmare. Give me an integrated beam/bulkhead design: easier to sleep at night.

[square top 9]

6 hours ago, boardhead said:

Lotta mast (weight aloft) sticking out the top of that square top.

Short changed on the provided sail dimensions?

Surely its a floating tack and the main hasn't been pulled all the way up? The sail looks like its on the boom so should be able to go up and have luff down adjustment. If not the sailmaker needs a measuring tape. 

[Lowgroove 20]

On 12/19/2019 at 8:36 AM, square top said:

Surely its a floating tack and the main hasn't been pulled all the way up? The sail looks like its on the boom so should be able to go up and have luff down adjustment. If not the sailmaker needs a measuring tape. 

If anything this sail could have been 50mm shorter on the luff, she can go full hoist, just a halyard that needs be be pulled up harder, great shots, she's a beast.

Tack has a lashing.

[boardhead 201]

So a two inch increment on a sixty foot stick is like 0.3% but scaling the guy at the mast to the length of undressed spar up there looks all of two feet - cut it off if you are not gonna use it! 

Running the tack two feet up the track from the goose neck has some geometry issues loading the lower slides - or room for another thirty square feet of sail?

[Floating Duck 85]

Make that sail STICK OUT past the mast, otherwise it's not long enough 

[boardhead 201]

That's the way you do it!

[huey 2 331]

https://www.wichard.com.au/granger-tr-42-venom-qa/

[boardhead 201]

On 12/18/2019 at 1:13 PM, DaveWalsh said:

Anyone have pictures of how the front beam structure (post no 20) was integrated into the main bulkhead?

Surely not just glued on? How was it done? As shown in post number 20 it looks an engineering/structural nightmare. Give me an integrated beam/bulkhead design: easier to sleep at night.

It's a secret!

[DaveWalsh 1]

Really? (Does that mean you've never seen it?)

Happy New Year.

[MRS OCTOPUS 102]

On 1/10/2019 at 4:11 AM, boardhead said:

Fabulous boat, great video, Thanks.

44 kg aft beam - that’s 97 pounds? Amazing!

For those interested.

The OMR weight  has just been published.

3775  kg.

see VENOM ....

http://www.mycq.org.au/omr/omr-ratings

I'm pretty sure that Bullfrog raced lighter .

Has anyone got the OMR data?

That was built in a cow shed from dead vegetation.

WTF happened  to design and tech in the past  40 years

[cynophobe 46]

31 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

For those interested.

The OMR weight  has just been published.

3775  kg.

see VENOM ....

http://www.mycq.org.au/omr/omr-ratings

I'm pretty sure that Bullfrog raced lighter .

Has anyone got the OMR data?

That was built in a cow shed from dead vegetation.

WTF happened  to design and tech in the past  40 years

Ave Gitana is basically a sister ship to Bullfrog and weighs 4097kg, rates .996 to Venoms 1.008. 

[MRS OCTOPUS 102]

1 hour ago, cynophobe said:

Ave Gitana is basically a sister ship to Bullfrog and weighs 4097kg, rates .996 to Venoms 1.008. 

Thanks Cynophobe.

And thats with an inboard diesel and all the associated running gear.

Aluminium mast / ss rigging?

 

[ALL@SEA 169]

11 hours ago, cynophobe said:

Ave Gitana is basically a sister ship to Bullfrog and weighs 4097kg, rates .996 to Venoms 1.008. 

Pretty sure Ballena (Bullfrog) was built lighter solely as a racer, Ave Gitana having been built with some cruising in mind, though I have no idea what the difference was. This is based on a hazy memory of a boat profile for a sistership to Ballena (has to be Ave, as I think think there were only 2 built) that appeared in a late 90s Multihull World preview for the Brisbane Gladstone, where I think she finished mid fleet. I could be way off the mark.

[trispirit 73]

Ave actually has lithium and an electric drive no diesel! Her rigs carbon and she’s got synthetic rigging.  
 

For comparison Spirit, which has a 19m carbon rig and dyneema rigging had her last OMR in 2017 after being refit. She was 3.6t, which isn’t bad for a thirty year old design that’s 12.4m x 10.6m.

[MRS OCTOPUS 102]

4 hours ago, trispirit said:

Ave actually has lithium and an electric drive no diesel! Her rigs carbon and she’s got synthetic rigging.  
 

 

Interesting.

Do you know what charging system they have for the  lithium?

petrol,diesel, solar., all of the above.

Unless its a token system the total weight of these electric systems is normally more than I.C.E.

[trispirit 73]

4 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Interesting.

Do you know what charging system they have for the  lithium?

petrol,diesel, solar., all of the above.

Unless its a token system the total weight of these electric systems is normally more than I.C.E.

1kw of Solar or shore power charges the 360Ah @ 48v lithium bank.  The Oceanvolt engine can regenerate at up to 3.8kw max @ 17kts of boat speed.  Regeneration reduces speed around 0.6 of a knot.  Can motor for 2hrs at 7kts and 5hrs at 4kts flat seas.  No good for boats that can't sail but a great system for boats that sail well and for people that aren't in a hurry if and when cruising.  I believe the system over I.C.E saved roughly 65kg's.  Owner is very happy with the system and it suits their needs very well  ;-)

[boardhead 201]

On 2/11/2020 at 4:22 AM, MRS OCTOPUS said:

For those interested.

The OMR weight  has just been published.

3775  kg.

see VENOM ....

http://www.mycq.org.au/omr/omr-ratings

I'm pretty sure that Bullfrog raced lighter .

Has anyone got the OMR data?

That was built in a cow shed from dead vegetation.

WTF happened  to design and tech in the past  40 years

This is all VERY interesting.

The 97 kg turned out to be - at best - the two foreword STUB beams which, apparently, when laminated into the hi-tech structure, yielded a boat 1,000 kg heavier than my relatively low tech approach.

The electrical drive option might actually be the key to my finding some interest in my boat. I conferred with Blue Sea some years ago but they were not focussing on performance sailing boats ( not sure many people are anymore - it's all about the buck) and the regeneration aspect was miserable then.

Trimaran's generate LOTS of energy but need little to move them at moderate (high teens) speeds.

With all of a ton to play with I could lose the current 15 hp outboard option - already so efficient with 4 stoke gas sipping fuel consumption- and get some cheap Tesla storage from the breakers yard working with the best Oceanvolt has to offer.

Bingo - current gee wiz that might actually work! 

Not carbon panel build, reverse bows, foils, magic folding etc, etc.

Did somebody say regular guy's could DIY a better outcome - don't be so silly!!

[boardhead 201]

12 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Interesting.

Do you know what charging system they have for the  lithium?

petrol,diesel, solar., all of the above.

Unless its a token system the total weight of these electric systems is normally more than I.C.E.

Buddy of mine just picked up a 5kw piece of a Tesla automobile battery for $1g, delivered. Four of those beat the 17kw Ave Gitana is packing at around 130kg.

Motor sailing in very light air (there is almost always something) my big pitch equipped 15 hp OB runs 4 hours on a gallon making 6 - 8 knots so we only carry two 4 gallon tanks of gas.

Imagine what an optimised electric pusher/regenerator could achieve - BUT - you need a REALLY efficient sailboat.

How about the $owner of Venom toss that afterthought OB off the stern and demo what's possible with electric in 2020 like Tesla is blowing away the entire antiquated auto industry - but I digress - sorry.

[Monkey 1,052]

7 hours ago, boardhead said:

Bingo - current gee wiz that might actually work! 

Not carbon panel build, reverse bows, foils, magic folding etc, etc.

Did somebody say regular guy's could DIY a better outcome - don't be so silly!!

Well, prove it!  I really like a lot of your ideas, but you carry on constantly that your ideas are better than the modern ideas. I simply say, “prove it.”

[PIL66 - XL2 801]

Bang for buck and ongoing cost on propulsion for venom is to keep what they have..... hands down..... 

[boardhead 201]

So I launched a boat 28 years ago that is lighter - fact, more cost efficient - fact, more accommodating - fact, probably faster, came out at build weight - fact, never had any structural issues -fact, never failed to finish a single race or passage or give me a scary moment - fact and still looks and is like new after many thousands of offshore miles. 

It's the "new" stuff that has to deliver and prove itself. I am waiting to see it.

3 hours ago, Monkey said:

Well, prove it!  I really like a lot of your ideas, but you carry on constantly that your ideas are better than the modern ideas. I simply say, “prove it.”

 

[Russell Brown 593]

I want whatever glasses you are wearing. I've designed and built lots of boats that performed well above expectations and had all the "facts" that you state and all I see are their faults.

 

[boardhead 201]

Well that must be depressing Russell.

I wonder if you or your Dad ever looked at one of your boats and said you did not even care if it performed well cos it just looked fantastic - I would find that depressing but apparently it’s OK for some.

[Mohammed Bin Lyin 63]

On 2/12/2020 at 8:21 AM, ALL@SEA said:

On 2/11/2020 at 8:54 PM, cynophobe said:

Ave Gitana is basically a sister ship to Bullfrog and weighs 4097kg, rates .996 to Venoms 1.008. 

Pretty sure Ballena (Bullfrog) was built lighter solely as a racer, Ave Gitana having been built with some cruising in mind, though I have no idea what the difference was. This is based on a hazy memory of a boat profile for a sistership to Ballena (has to be Ave, as I think think there were only 2 built) that appeared in a late 90s Multihull World preview for the Brisbane Gladstone, where I think she finished mid fleet. I could be way off the mark.

Bullfrog was much lighter compared to Ave. The float is much higher out of the water compared to any pic of Ave which might explain why Bullfrog had better race results.

Around 5600 lbs lightship for Bullfrog.

 

 

[boardhead 201]

That’s what I wanted to own and sail - beautiful boat.

Thanks Ian and Kathy.

[Monkey 1,052]

16 hours ago, boardhead said:

So I launched a boat 28 years ago that is lighter - fact, more cost efficient - fact, more accommodating - fact, probably faster, came out at build weight - fact, never had any structural issues -fact, never failed to finish a single race or passage or give me a scary moment - fact and still looks and is like new after many thousands of offshore miles. 

It's the "new" stuff that has to deliver and prove itself. I am waiting to see it.

 

That’s like the guy who builds up some car, never shows up at the track, and brags to everyone how it’s faster than all the silly new cars. It means nothing. I’m only giving you a hard time because you always insist everything you did is better. 
 

It’s still a fantastic boat, and I’m sincerely not trying to be a jerk. 

[PIL66 - XL2 801]

21 hours ago, boardhead said:

So I launched a boat 28 years ago that is lighter - fact, more cost efficient - fact, more accommodating - fact, probably faster, came out at build weight - fact, never had any structural issues -fact, never failed to finish a single race or passage or give me a scary moment - fact and still looks and is like new after many thousands of offshore miles. 

It's the "new" stuff that has to deliver and prove itself. I am waiting to see it.

 

Which boat...? Please explain..... and post picks 

[LMI 12]

23 hours ago, boardhead said:

So I launched a boat 28 years ago that is lighter - fact, more cost efficient - fact, more accommodating - fact, probably faster, came out at build weight - fact, never had any structural issues -fact, never failed to finish a single race or passage or give me a scary moment - fact and still looks and is like new after many thousands of offshore miles. 

It's the "new" stuff that has to deliver and prove itself. I am waiting to see it.

 

Fact is it’s been for sale forever and nobody has bought it. 
 

Fact is even at half even a quarter the price I would not buy it. 
 

Fact is you will never take it to the Caribbean winter racing circuit because you would be crushed. 
 

Fact is it’s a horrible boat for cruising with its minimal fit out and accommodations in a cave like monohull design, minimal protection on deck, expensive maintenance requirements, and safety compromises.

You tell everyone else what is wrong with their boats and what is so great about yours but yet the market has spoken loudly and clearly that your’s is the one with issues. 
 

Fact.