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Bruce Sutherland

Is there ANY Antifoul that works? ( Bottom paint?)

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We have just hauled out - we do about 3000 miles a year, can sometimes go quite fast ( Dazcat 1150)  and generally scrub every 4 to 6 weeks or before a race. Boat lives on a mooring in tidal water up a large river in the UK. 

The chosen paint this year was Nautix A3 - nice to put on smooth surface and we used white so easy to see the growth when cleaning....... but lots of barnacles and weed by end of season. It definitely ablated

Year before was Shogun Emperor - may have had a bad batch - like tar to put on - rough finish needed sanding before going in and did not really kill much. Enough said about that as it did not seem to ablate much either and horrible to remove

Year before was International VC - OK ish to paint - bit watery - did not really kill much and decided to go back to Nautix... but it was too cold in the UK to put it on so ended up using the Shogun as it had won best in test with PBO magazine..... 

 Year before was Nautix A4  - to die for to paint on - oh the finish - but did not really kill much

Having just spent the weekend staring up at the boats bottom and sanding the hulls just wondering if anyone has any super ideas for next years expensive not very killing paintwork exercise? 

 

 

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Since the US banned TBT paint it's difficult to get even 6 months without at least slime growing.  I'm really disappointed with he Seahawk antifouling I applied in April (2017), even in Seattle with fairly cold water the boat needs a diver to clean it already.

 

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Don't know if you can get it in the UK, but Seahawk biocop plus, works well for me. Can't get it in the US anymore unfortunately, luckily I stocked up before the ban.

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By far the best antifoul paint I ever used (about 30 years ago) was some US Navy surplus that they use on submarines. I left my midget ocean racer  in warm San Diego water for 5 years before we needed to start wiping the bottom before races.  Of course if you dripped the paint on your skin it raised an instant blister and nothing grew on the dock floats or one side of my neighbor's boat either.  Probably not environmentally safe but wow, it worked a charm.

 

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Here's my latest idea... hard polished waterproof bottom, IP2000 or durapox or whatever, then my new kickstarter idea, which is a series of soft buoyant containers with perforated bottoms strung together in a line that can be run around the boat when it's tied up... said containers filled with magic potion, currently thinking swimming pool chlorine pellets, so that your boat is constantly surrounded by a mildly unpleasant plume which prevents growth...

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20 minutes ago, overdraft said:

Here's my latest idea... hard polished waterproof bottom, IP2000 or durapox or whatever, then my new kickstarter idea, which is a series of soft buoyant containers with perforated bottoms strung together in a line that can be run around the boat when it's tied up... said containers filled with magic potion, currently thinking swimming pool chlorine pellets, so that your boat is constantly surrounded by a mildly unpleasant plume which prevents growth...

You mean something like this?

http://clearmarine.com/boat-baths/

Uses chlorine pucks (figures I guess being a Canadian company).  The FT-10 My Tai is shown in one of their baths.

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ya, that was an idea that had promise, but the guy who mades them doesn't really want to sell them... quoted  me $6k for a 22 foot boat! then tried to sell me an ultrasonic antifouling device instead... so i thought why not eliminate the troublesome bath part, which when you consider that it needs to be spiced up with chlorine isn't perhaps as efficacious as you'd thnk and creates issues with getting in and out, and being moved if your club moves you to a different slip. So cut straight to something that would just surround the boat with a solution  that would inhibit growth?

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Micron 66 works for me. Fast boat. Both cold and tropical water. Lotsa miles. Once a year. No build up.

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4 hours ago, 12 metre said:

You mean something like this?

http://clearmarine.com/boat-baths/

Uses chlorine pucks (figures I guess being a Canadian company).  The FT-10 My Tai is shown in one of their baths.

We used those boat-baths in 1967. Terrible pain in the ass as you have to turn them inside out every couple of weeks or the outside gets so foul it's impossible to turn.  Pool chlorine was used but not sure if it's environmentally accepted but it does keep the bottom clean.

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4 hours ago, overdraft said:

ya, that was an idea that had promise, but the guy who mades them doesn't really want to sell them... quoted  me $6k for a 22 foot boat! then tried to sell me an ultrasonic antifouling device instead... so i thought why not eliminate the troublesome bath part, which when you consider that it needs to be spiced up with chlorine isn't perhaps as efficacious as you'd thnk and creates issues with getting in and out, and being moved if your club moves you to a different slip. So cut straight to something that would just surround the boat with a solution  that would inhibit growth?

If I understand your idea correctly,  it may work in some areas, but in most of the local  marinas there is often a fair amount of current which would quickly diffuse the magic potion.

Yeah, I looked at the local boat baths a few years ago too and besides the high cost, there is the even bigger issue that sailronin mentions - you either have to periodically turn (clean the bath tub so to speak), or apply anti-fouling to the tub :blink: 

If you could get your system to work, it would probably sell like hotcakes in WA state in the next few years - unless ePaint can find a way to get over their apparent adhesion issues - although they have had a lot of time to sort that out.

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8 hours ago, daddle said:

Micron 66 works for me. Fast boat. Both cold and tropical water. Lotsa miles. Once a year. No build up.

Second this.  Switched from Vc offshore to this about 6 years ago.  Not as hard and smooth as vc but still wet sands well.  We paint every other season and only get a mile slime buildup after 6 weeks.  Easy to wipe with a sponge and usually only in areas the sun can reach 

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9 hours ago, 12 metre said:

If I understand your idea correctly,  it may work in some areas, but in most of the local  marinas there is often a fair amount of current which would quickly diffuse the magic potion.

Yeah, I looked at the local boat baths a few years ago too and besides the high cost, there is the even bigger issue that sailronin mentions - you either have to periodically turn (clean the bath tub so to speak), or apply anti-fouling to the tub :blink: 

If you could get your system to work, it would probably sell like hotcakes in WA state in the next few years - unless ePaint can find a way to get over their apparent adhesion issues - although they have had a lot of time to sort that out.

I forgot to mention the really terrible part of a boat bath. When it's done, either torn or too much growth (if you're lazy) to keep working or you sell the boat and buyer doesn't want the boat bath, you have to dispose of the monster.  Haul it out, cut up in small pieces and put in a dumpster.  The one I was exposed to was for a Soling (yes, people used to wet sail them long, long ago) and it was a full day's work for three guys to cut that terrible boat bath up and carry up the dock to a dumpster.

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On 10/30/2017 at 9:00 AM, sailronin said:

By far the best antifoul paint I ever used (about 30 years ago) was some US Navy surplus that they use on submarines. I left my midget ocean racer  in warm San Diego water for 5 years before we needed to start wiping the bottom before races.  Of course if you dripped the paint on your skin it raised an instant blister and nothing grew on the dock floats or one side of my neighbor's boat either.  Probably not environmentally safe but wow, it worked a charm.

 

That was probably Proline 1088, especially if it was the black stuff. Used in the Navy yards here for decades. I think over the years the copper content has been reduced but it's still pretty toxic. I sanded a 2 1/2 year old bottom in the water once and got rash everywhere. For the OP, the key is make sure your hull cleaner, if you have one, understands the worst thing he can do is sand or use an abrasive pad to clean a new bottom as that seals over the pores that leech the copper into the water. A towel or piece of shag carpet (if the still make it these days) should be all it takes to wipe the slime away for at least a year. When you have to go to brown Scotch Brite for the water line you're about six months from a new bottom job but really you should be getting better results, probably at least two years I'd say it's likely you're cleaning with too abrasive a material. 

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We had some jotun stuff that someone had bought a 20gal. drum of and shipped off 2l at a time on ebay. Worked went on easily and reasonably smooth (just light sanding in some spots needed), only had to really start scrubbing the bottom after about a year, before that a light slime would appear in the sunny spots every few weeks. Unfortunately the guy has stopped or run out.

Anyone tried this SilicOne  stuff from hempel? It's supposed to create a hydrophobic layer around the boat so it slides through the water. Supposed to....

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37 minutes ago, kinardly said:

That was probably Proline 1088, especially if it was the black stuff. Used in the Navy yards here for decades. I think over the years the copper content has been reduced but it's still pretty toxic. I sanded a 2 1/2 year old bottom in the water once and got rash everywhere. For the OP, the key is make sure your hull cleaner, if you have one, understands the worst thing he can do is sand or use an abrasive pad to clean a new bottom as that seals over the pores that leech the copper into the water. A towel or piece of shag carpet (if the still make it these days) should be all it takes to wipe the slime away for at least a year. When you have to go to brown Scotch Brite for the water line you're about six months from a new bottom job but really you should be getting better results, probably at least two years I'd say it's likely you're cleaning with too abrasive a material. 

I don't know the brand but TBT was listed as the biocide, this was long before TBT was illegal in the US.

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On 10/30/2017 at 6:29 PM, overdraft said:

Here's my latest idea... hard polished waterproof bottom, IP2000 or durapox or whatever, then my new kickstarter idea, which is a series of soft buoyant containers with perforated bottoms strung together in a line that can be run around the boat when it's tied up... said containers filled with magic potion, currently thinking swimming pool chlorine pellets, so that your boat is constantly surrounded by a mildly unpleasant plume which prevents growth...

Did you ever think about the environmental impact of this rather silly idea?

 

Btw - it wont work as the dilution will be enormous - all you will do is pollute the harbor

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well, is spite of being initially toxic enough to inhibit growth, at least chlorine breaks down into fairly harmless components fairly quickly in contrast with the current "state of the art" which seems to consist of mining toxic metals which will never break down and introducing them into the harbour instead, as well as requiring constant removal, disposal and reapplication... ya, i dunno how you'd control the dilution issue or i'd be rich instead of jusr someone tossing some different ideas around because the status quo is pretty lame...  now you go back to your canvas sails or gas powered outboard or whatever things were like when you ceased to be  inquisitive   :D

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Sailronin - OP here - after the slime we get very fine weed that sticks to the hull. We go in in March and by late May as the water warms weed starts to form. We always use at least two coats - always sanded back each year etc hence the frustration.  NB most boats are really bad this year and we are waiting for a similar boat that has been copper botted to be hauled to see what she is like. 

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My experience is limited to the San Francisco Bay Area, where our fouling is moderate to high, IMHO. I only ever recommend two products- Pettit Trinidad and Interlux Micron 66. Everything else runs a distant second, at best.

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On 11/2/2017 at 9:45 PM, fstbttms said:

My experience is limited to the San Francisco Bay Area, where our fouling is moderate to high, IMHO. I only ever recommend two products- Pettit Trinidad and Interlux Micron 66. Everything else runs a distant second, at best.

Fst - I use Micron 66. Just got a new bottom job. I'd have you clean her but I'm stranded in Monterey. I have previously wiped with the rough side of a bath towel. What should I tell the diver to use, and how, to clean it? If you can share?

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7 hours ago, daddle said:

Fst - I use Micron 66. Just got a new bottom job. I'd have you clean her but I'm stranded in Monterey. I have previously wiped with the rough side of a bath towel. What should I tell the diver to use, and how, to clean it? If you can share?

A towel is fine to begin with. Or a white Doodlebug pad or gentle brush.

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Micron CSC - you'll get three months without slime, then you need to start wiping.  Easy to wipe, I ask my diver to use a soft sponge.  I can also do it with my dock brush which has soft pile carpet on it.  Nice thing about CSC is  you can haul the boat for quite a long time without damaging the paint.  On the other hand, what good is a boat out of the water?

I purchased a boat bag in Australia back in the early 90's and brought it back to Canada intending to start a boat bag building business.  The environmental regulations scared me off once I got into the details.  Apparently you have to be a fish farm if you want to dump toxic chemicals into the ocean.   The folks who are putting chlorine pucks into the environment - really?  I was hoping to find something to use that wouldn't persist in the environment - maybe hydrogen peroxide - but didn't find anything that was cost effective.

I sold the bag I brought back as it didn't fit my boat, and it is still in use on a 26-footer here on the Island.  The outside of the bag doesn't seem to foul too much. 

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I used the new pettit black widow this year and the results were outstanding.

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2 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

cant wait for 2020 when there will not be any biocides in antifoul...

Nobody forced you to live in Washington. :lol:

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14 hours ago, Sailabout said:

its global..

 

Umm... a global ban on copper beginning in 2020? I'm not sure where you are getting your information chief, but I'd find another source if I were you.

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any biocides with be outlawed for use in antifoul.
You will still be allowed to have copper wires in your boat if thats what you concluded, hence you could still grind them up and do anything with it.

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Anybody else heard this? Sounds like BS.

On 12/7/2017 at 1:40 AM, Sailabout said:

any biocides with be outlawed for use in antifoul.
You will still be allowed to have copper wires in your boat if thats what you concluded, hence you could still grind them up and do anything with it.

 

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Micron 66.......now 7 years with two touch ups on leading edges and waterline. Race yacht and a wipeover about 3 weekly. In marina with no tide flow.Original job 7 litres when 4 were recommended. More expensive but paid for itself 3 times over plus !.

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7 hours ago, kinardly said:

Anybody else heard this? Sounds like BS.

 

Of course it's bullshit. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

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