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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
GauchoGreg

Banque Populaire IX

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Add another beauty to the stable of G-Class boats (I prefer that to the "Ultim" name).  She looks really nice.... good that they took the extra time to get her up and flying with Gitana.  Nice refinements on this boat.

 

37332957964_bd8e7d68e9_b.jpg

37332968944_49fe6b87eb_b.jpg

37988083186_62f9fde596_b.jpg

37332750294_3a39e8ea79_b.jpg

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Looks like considerably different philosophy compared to Gitana XIV, especially when you compare the amas.... check out how little volume is in the ama on BPIX.  Also, filling gap between boom & deck to maximize end-plate effect.  Doesn't look quite as robust, and have to wonder if it is as truly set up to fly since it was not going to fly initially (even if designed to eventually be retrofitted to go airborne).

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7 hours ago, GauchoGreg said:

(really shows the gap filler below the boom well):

C'mon.  They could've have squeezed out a few more centimeters don't ya think?

Colossal is what comes to mind.

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These are no longer boats, they're fucking experimental aircraft.

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Really I don't understand how the french manage to launch those kind of beasts one after the other. People involved in AC should open there eyes and look in that direction, but  unfortunately they  seem blind.  Don't start saying they are not match racing, or Deed compliant (FO)

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both these boats are gonna seriously crush some records, but over such massive distance luck plays a big part with weather patters - but again the onshore navs/weather gurus keep them ahead of the game. Cant wait for next Jules Verne, to see a 1:1 chase again would be epic with these foiling monsters.

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Kind of interesting how Joyon was the first to go "short-handed" in RTW record breaking effort, and did it with a boat designed to be sailed with a full crew.  These two new boats are designed for going 1-handed, or small crew, but do it at a performance level equal to, or surpassing the big crewed boats like Spindrift.  I REALLY hope we can see a race, soon, in crewed configuration, between Spindrift, BPIX, Gitana XIV, Macif, and Idec... sucks that the Ultim contingent has not just let their boats do their competing, and are instead blocking out the big boat(s), at a time when short-handed and smallish boats have proven to be competitive, if not superior.

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3 hours ago, southerncross said:

Did Guillaume Verdier do the foils on this one too?

No it is Martin Fischer, by the way on below pic :

37988083186_62f9fde596_b.jpg

Quite impressive how the profile has this concave shape at the back of the foil

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Just for fun, neat to compare to the last Banque Populaire (big kudos to the Euro-Bank for bankrolling more than one badass boat) G-Class launch (new boat looks nimble compared to the tank that is now Spindrift 2):

1200px-Banque_populaire5-003.jpg

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The ama hulls look shorter than the main hull, au contraire of Gitana where they are of the same length.Has this any benefit? Changing the trampoline net for a laminated one has any  aerodynamic benefit, apart from being safer?

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What's it rate? Kidding.. Can't wait to see these monsters go head to head. Seahorse had a good article on Gitana, but I sure like the looks of BP. 

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Banque Populaire Launched: more from Catsailingnews.com today ---    http://www.catsailingnews.com/2017/10/banque-populaire-ix-maxi-foiler.html

Whats so cool is now there are TWO Ultim tris with UptiP ama foils and a foil on the daggerboard-and four tris altogether using this Foil System!

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12 hours ago, jorge said:

The ama hulls look shorter than the main hull, au contraire of Gitana where they are of the same length.Has this any benefit? Changing the trampoline net for a laminated one has any  aerodynamic benefit, apart from being safer?

Not the new Banque Populaire (you might be looking at the old boat in the pic, above).  The amas on the new boat are full length:

37332962814_59d90ab766_b.jpg

 

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51 minutes ago, GauchoGreg said:

Not the new Banque Populaire (you might be looking at the old boat in the pic, above).  The amas on the new boat are full length:

37332962814_59d90ab766_b.jpg

 

My mistake

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I just saw where the new Sodebo will be using amas from the same mold as BPIX (g-trans, from ultim boat.... don't know how I had missed this):


 

Quote

 

...

The announcement of the launch of this project took place on January 31, 2017. The trimaran will be launched in 2018.


In an ITW at My Sail Mag of 27/04, ON learns that the floats will come out of those of the People's Bank IX [g-trans of 'Banque Populaire'], they will be signed VPLP. And the Design Team will revolve around Renaud Bañuls, and will include Yves Miniard, Herve Devaux, Gauthier Sergent, Martin Fisher and VPLP.

July 2017, construction began at Multiplast in Vannes.

 

https://www.ultimboat.com/sodebo-ultim-2

 

I will post this in the "ultim" thread, as well, but thought it interesting for this thread since they amas will be duplicates of what just got launched on BPIX.

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I wonder if they will use a daggerboard foil as well as UptiP foils on the amas-I see Martin Fischer is involved-very cool!

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The French is really driving the development in sailing - not only these tris - but in monos too.... while the others go backwards with AC and VOR.....

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13 minutes ago, SeaGul said:

The French is really driving the development in sailing - not only these tris - but in monos too.... while the others go backwards with AC and VOR.....

VOR is really disappointing compared to what it was....  I can't stand the OD trend.  On at least that issue, the AC seems to be heading back in the right direction, although the restriction to monohull while allowing all kinds of appendages (if, in fact, that is what they do) is silly to me.  But right now, by far the most interesting boats and racing to me is the Ultim / G-Class... with the launchings of Gitana & BP, Sodebo to follow, with Gabart's solo trip (then the retrofit of his boat), with the TJV, and with Spindrift getting ready to head out.

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On 31/10/2017 at 9:17 PM, yl75 said:

No it is Martin Fischer, by the way on below pic :

37988083186_62f9fde596_b.jpg

Quite impressive how the profile has this concave shape at the back of the foil

Nice foil, but that's not Martin Fischer on the pic!

It's very impressive to see BP9 fly on her first day on the water! She looks good too, very slick. Gitana17 looks like heavier, like a tractor compared to BP9! (a TNZ -like flying tractor nonetheless...)

 

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9 minutes ago, Hydrogene said:

Nice foil, but that's not Martin Fischer on the pic!

It's very impressive to see BP9 fly on her first day on the water! She looks good too, very slick. Gitana17 looks like heavier, like a tractor compared to BP9! (a TNZ -like flying tractor nonetheless...)

 

Yeah, I think you are right on that.  Gitana looks to be a bit more robust... thicker in places, namely the amas, but also probably in the main hull.  Not sure if they thought it necessary for dedicated flight from the start... a comment I saw somewhere that they wanted more robust links between the beam and floats to deal with the loads up on the foils.  But the comparison between the boats shows Gitana weight at 1.5 tons more.... also a shorter mast and less sail area (obviously, that can change).  Following from Ultim (https://www.ultimboat.com/ultime-news-6).

b02454_06162fe158a94c7087ebada8b339b008~

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28 minutes ago, Hydrogene said:

Nice foil, but that's not Martin Fischer on the pic!

It's very impressive to see BP9 fly on her first day on the water! She looks good too, very slick. Gitana17 looks like heavier, like a tractor compared to BP9! (a TNZ -like flying tractor nonetheless...)

 

I didn't mean to say that it is Martin Fischer on the pic, just "on below pic it is quite impressive how the foil has this concave shape" ;)

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13 hours ago, yl75 said:

I didn't mean to say that it is Martin Fischer on the pic, just "on below pic it is quite impressive how the foil has this concave shape" ;)

Oh, right! désolé. :P

The concave shape looks a bit like the trailing edge on ETNZ winning foils, but I've no idea what it's for...

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1 hour ago, Hydrogene said:

The concave shape looks a bit like the trailing edge on ETNZ winning foils, but I've no idea what it's for...

More even distribution of lift along the chord. It allows more boatspeed before cavitation is inevitable. Unfortinately it also increases drag in lower speeds when no foil cavitates. Hydrofoils having same shape as in typical aerofoils develop great suction peak near leading edge while producing lift, and thus cavitate early, but are perfectly O.K. for keels or rudders on slower boats.

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On 11/7/2017 at 1:46 PM, GauchoGreg said:

Yeah, I think you are right on that.  Gitana looks to be a bit more robust... thicker in places, namely the amas, but also probably in the main hull.  Not sure if they thought it necessary for dedicated flight from the start... a comment I saw somewhere that they wanted more robust links between the beam and floats to deal with the loads up on the foils.  But the comparison between the boats shows Gitana weight at 1.5 tons more.... also a shorter mast and less sail area (obviously, that can change).  Following from Ultim (https://www.ultimboat.com/ultime-news-6).

b02454_06162fe158a94c7087ebada8b339b008~

How does BPIX get 33% more upwind sail area out of 1m taller mast?

I think Gitana has a bunch of ultime class-illegal hydraulics.  That might be the weight difference.

Either way, the SA/D differential is pretty notable.

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17 hours ago, eastern motors said:

How does BPIX get 33% more upwind sail area out of 1m taller mast?

If there was suppose to be a J0 type sail in addition of C0 (as used in Volvo 65 in current edition), then those numbers for max upwind sail area might be correct, but even then the tack point must be all the way forward like in this document: http://www.voile.banquepopulaire.fr/sites/default/files/bp_dp_bpIX_light_01.pdf How is one suppose to access that tackpoint? There is no deck on mainhull anywhere near that far forward from the pullpit, just a knife edge to walk on! If that sail drawing would be to scale, either mast height or length of main hull is incorrect. If there is different scale horizontally and vertically, the sail area is possible, but does it make any sense? Aspect ratio for upwind sails would be just above 2, not very useful for upwind work with boat of such performance. Additionally there is a problem with using such masthead sail with fractionally supported mast. The leeward main shroud and lower shroud both limit overlapping the main or sheeting angle becomes way too wide for upwind work.

 

With tack point further aft like in this: https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/voile/voile-les-secrets-du-maxi-trimaran-banque-populaire-ix-de-le-cleac-h-5314860 Only way to get that much area is to do it with code0, which means at least the lower shroud must be disconnected on leeward side while sailing upwind! Doesn't sound like anywhere near sensibly safe solution.

 

Third possibility involves incorrect (or outdated) numbers for upwind sailarea.

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New, from the Banque Pop site (g-trans):

Quote

Between thrills and pride of having built such a boat, the Team Banque Populaire seems completely satisfied with the first edges made off Lorient: "After a few trips off Lorient, we are pleasantly surprised by the boat, we feel that it is easy to maneuver and has incredible potential. Compared to the Maxi Banque Populaire V and Maxi Solo Banque Populaire VII, the boat is more alive and faster speed, maneuvers are more fluid and fast.

To fly it during the first navigation was for us a nice surprise and the proof that it is simple to take in hand. We sailed in 20 knots of wind, we feel that it is a boat that starts very fast, we made peaks at more than 42 knots but we always felt safe and above all, it is very pleasant to...
 
"We made peaks over 42 knots but we always felt safe"
Ronan Lucas

First of all, we will make the boat more reliable in the next few months and then, Armel will take him in solitary mode. After several miles, we have already seen improvements to make, mainly to make navigation more enjoyable, so we are entering a development phase. But overall, we are very satisfied with the first results at sea and can not wait to discover even more! Ronan Lucas says.

http://www.voile.banquepopulaire.fr/news/des-pointes-a-plus-de-42-n-uds-pour-le-maxi-banque-populaire-ix--/

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First flight video-I think. Using the same basic foil system* pioneered by Guillaume Verdier on Maserati and Gitana.....and on Fire Arrow 4years ago:

*adjustable center foil + UptiP ama foils + rudder t-foil(s)

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

First flight video-I think. Using the same basic foil system* pioneered by Guillaume Verdier on Maserati and Gitana.....and on Fire Arrow 4years ago:

*adjustable center foil + UptiP ama foils + rudder t-foil(s)

 

 

Excuse my ignorance but what is fire arrow...?

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A large test model that was the first trimaran in history to use an adjustable daggerboard foil and UptiP ama foils combined with a rudderT-foil-4 years ago.......

MPX Fire Arrow-First Full Flying Foiling on video-7-24-14 009 (2).JPG

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5 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

First flight video-I think. Using the same basic foil system* pioneered by Guillaume Verdier on Maserati and Gitana.....and on Fire Arrow 4years ago:

*adjustable center foil + UptiP ama foils + rudder t-foil(s)

 

 

First of all, Doug, you could do the world (including yourself) a favor by shutting down your insufferable self-promotion.  Ask yourself, "who the hell cares?"  What is your objective in CONSTANTLY trying to ram your Fire Arrow down people's throats?  Do you think anyone is going to say "Great Job Doug.... Verdier, Gitana, Banque Pop, et al should pay you credit or royalties?  You simply took the idea Verdier/ETNZ developed and made the pretty predictable transition to a tri (and yes, the "manta" central foil was pretty predictable).  Nope, no one is going to start throwing you credit.... and I'm not saying that as a personal attack on you, DougLord, but rather because in the real world, no one EVER starts giving credit to people who are crying out for credit/attention.  All you do is fill the board with this, leading to people flaming you.  The self-promotion AND the flaming are getting beyond boring and lame... Better to just let your actions speak for themselves.  Couldn't we PLEASE, PLEASE, focus on the damned boats, the incredible technology instead of you? 

Secondly, thanks for pointing out the video.  It is, again (like the Gitana vid), simply mesmerizing.  The smooth and effortless nature of the boat when up on foil is incredible.... I wonder what their foil construction is compared to Gitana, and if they have or are working up anything different for the foils following the failure of the Gitana foil.

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The guy asked me a question about Fire Arrow-I answered it............

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45 minutes ago, GauchoGreg said:

First of all, Doug, you could do the world (including yourself) a favor by shutting down your insufferable self-promotion.  Ask yourself, "who the hell cares?"  What is your objective in CONSTANTLY trying to ram your Fire Arrow down people's throats?  Do you think anyone is going to say "Great Job Doug.... Verdier, Gitana, Banque Pop, et al should pay you credit or royalties?  You simply took the idea Verdier/ETNZ developed and made the pretty predictable transition to a tri (and yes, the "manta" central foil was pretty predictable).  Nope, no one is going to start throwing you credit.... and I'm not saying that as a personal attack on you, DougLord, but rather because in the real world, no one EVER starts giving credit to people who are crying out for credit/attention.  All you do is fill the board with this, leading to people flaming you.  The self-promotion AND the flaming are getting beyond boring and lame... Better to just let your actions speak for themselves.  Couldn't we PLEASE, PLEASE, focus on the damned boats, the incredible technology instead of you? 

Secondly, thanks for pointing out the video.  It is, again (like the Gitana vid), simply mesmerizing.  The smooth and effortless nature of the boat when up on foil is incredible.... I wonder what their foil construction is compared to Gitana, and if they have or are working up anything different for the foils following the failure of the Gitana foil.

That is one of the silliest comments I've yet read-thanks for the humor!

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LONG before I ever saw your Fire Arrow, pretty much immediately after ETNZ revealed their foils, I started thinking about how they could be applied in offshore boats, specifically G-Class Tris, because RTW outright records/races is my biggest interest.  LONG before Fire Arrow, I think it was Stan Honey during a lap around the globe (Groupama 3, I believe) was musing about some time in the future, they would be foiling over the Southern Ocean, skipping from one low-pressure system to the next.  So, it was not exactly a stretch that anyone would try to think about how the concept would translate to the oceanic racers.... in fact it would be odd that someone interested in offshore racing wouldn't muse about how it could be adapted.  Anyway, I was thinking about how they could adapt ETNZ's system to tris, and I thought ama-mounted "V" foils and a central T ("manta") would make the most sense.  Again, that is not exactly a stretch for anyone to think of, given the geometry of the existing boats and how they would lend themselves to the new tech.  Difference between us, is that I'm not claiming I was innovative in my conceiving of the subject.  It is not rocket science to think of what would make the most sense given the loads and type of sailing they do for a RTW race.  I'm POSITIVE every prominent designer of outright ocean-going yachts, upon seeing ETNZ, if not before then, were well ahead of Doug Lord and Gaucho Greg in thinking through this concept, even if they did not make an RC model like you did (they very well may have, or they simply did it on the computer).  Give it a rest, Doug, NO ONE IS EVER GOING TO GIVE YOU THE ACCLAIM YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.  So, why your effort?  If you dropped it, you would be a pretty interesting poster with reasonable contributions.

Ah, well, I don't expect you to accept my constructive criticism, even though that was truly the nature in which I gave it.

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7 hours ago, JL92S said:

Excuse my ignorance but what is fire arrow...?

You’ve just woken the beast with that question!!!

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1 hour ago, GauchoGreg said:

First of all, Doug, you could do the world (including yourself) a favor by shutting down your insufferable self-promotion.  Ask yourself, "who the hell cares?"  What is your objective in CONSTANTLY trying to ram your Fire Arrow down people's throats?  Do you think anyone is going to say "Great Job Doug.... Verdier, Gitana, Banque Pop, et al should pay you credit or royalties?  You simply took the idea Verdier/ETNZ developed and made the pretty predictable transition to a tri (and yes, the "manta" central foil was pretty predictable).  Nope, no one is going to start throwing you credit.... and I'm not saying that as a personal attack on you, DougLord, but rather because in the real world, no one EVER starts giving credit to people who are crying out for credit/attention.  All you do is fill the board with this, leading to people flaming you.  The self-promotion AND the flaming are getting beyond boring and lame... Better to just let your actions speak for themselves.  Couldn't we PLEASE, PLEASE, focus on the damned boats, the incredible technology instead of you? 

Secondly, thanks for pointing out the video.  It is, again (like the Gitana vid), simply mesmerizing.  The smooth and effortless nature of the boat when up on foil is incredible.... I wonder what their foil construction is compared to Gitana, and if they have or are working up anything different for the foils following the failure of the Gitana foil.

Nah, here's where is inspiration really came from...

 

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2 hours ago, GauchoGreg said:

LONG before I ever saw your Fire Arrow, pretty much immediately after ETNZ revealed their foils, I started thinking about how they could be applied in offshore boats, specifically G-Class Tris, because RTW outright records/races is my biggest interest.  LONG before Fire Arrow, I think it was Stan Honey during a lap around the globe (Groupama 3, I believe) was musing about some time in the future, they would be foiling over the Southern Ocean, skipping from one low-pressure system to the next.  So, it was not exactly a stretch that anyone would try to think about how the concept would translate to the oceanic racers.... in fact it would be odd that someone interested in offshore racing wouldn't muse about how it could be adapted.  Anyway, I was thinking about how they could adapt ETNZ's system to tris, and I thought ama-mounted "V" foils and a central T ("manta") would make the most sense.  Again, that is not exactly a stretch for anyone to think of, given the geometry of the existing boats and how they would lend themselves to the new tech.  Difference between us, is that I'm not claiming I was innovative in my conceiving of the subject.  It is not rocket science to think of what would make the most sense given the loads and type of sailing they do for a RTW race.  I'm POSITIVE every prominent designer of outright ocean-going yachts, upon seeing ETNZ, if not before then, were well ahead of Doug Lord and Gaucho Greg in thinking through this concept, even if they did not make an RC model like you did (they very well may have, or they simply did it on the computer).  Give it a rest, Doug, NO ONE IS EVER GOING TO GIVE YOU THE ACCLAIM YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.  So, why your effort?  If you dropped it, you would be a pretty interesting poster with reasonable contributions.

Ah, well, I don't expect you to accept my constructive criticism, even though that was truly the nature in which I gave it.

I did the basic Fire Arrow design in 2010-way before I saw the TNZ UptiP foils and added my own version of UptiP foils after seeing TNZ in 2013.Originally I was going to use T-foils or a version of "C" foils.

I actually did something way before anyone else did-that's just a fact. I published what I did almost immediately. I don't need credit-I already have all the credit I ever wanted thanks to some really first class people. I believe in this concept particularly for small tris and if someone asks a question I will answer it . The Fire Arrow Foil System can unlock the max performance of small tri's like nothing else available now but it has tremendous potential on every size trimaran. I'm absolutely "claiming I was innovative" because I made the concept work 2 years before anyone else did and that's pretty damn cool! I will never, ever back off on the history and value of the Fire Arrow Foil System! And God willing and the creek don't rise I'll get WOLF built-a 15' version of Fire Arrow.

That's funny......

 

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4 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

That is one of the silliest comments I've yet read-thanks for the humor!

You are seriously one thick skinned, ego driven fuckwit Doug!!

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22 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

I did the basic Fire Arrow design in 2010-way before I saw the TNZ UptiP foils and added my own version of UptiP foils after seeing TNZ in 2013.Originally I was going to use T-foils or a version of "C" foils.

I actually did something way before anyone else did-that's just a fact. I published what I did almost immediately. I don't need credit-I already have all the credit I ever wanted thanks to some really first class people. I believe in this concept particularly for small tris and if someone asks a question I will answer it . The Fire Arrow Foil System can unlock the max performance of small tri's like nothing else available now but it has tremendous potential on every size trimaran. I'm absolutely "claiming I was innovative" because I made the concept work 2 years before anyone else did and that's pretty damn cool! I will never, ever back off on the history and value of the Fire Arrow Foil System! And God willing and the creek don't rise I'll get WOLF built-a 15' version of Fire Arrow.

That's funny......

 

Like I said, you have nothing to gain, and you certainly don't need to listen to anyone else if you don't want.  I truly have liked a lot of what you have posted, and I even appreciate your models, as someone who has been into both sailing and RC.  I just thought I would suggest you are never going to get what you want taking the tact you use.... far better to just DO rather than CLAIM.  When you say "I don't need credit-I already have all the credit I ever wanted", just to then keep repeating your claims, doing your UpTiP, posting your points in red, and re-posting your Fire Arrow pics, a sane person is going to differ with you, not to mention being bugged by you rather than accepting what you say.

 

But, Fine, knock yourself out.  Don't mind me.

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10 minutes ago, GauchoGreg said:

Like I said, you have nothing to gain, and you certainly don't need to listen to anyone else if you don't want.  I truly have liked a lot of what you have posted, and I even appreciate your models, as someone who has been into both sailing and RC.  I just thought I would suggest you are never going to get what you want taking the tact you use.... far better to just DO rather than CLAIM.  When you say "I don't need credit-I already have all the credit I ever wanted", just to then keep repeating your claims, doing your UpTiP, posting your points in red, and re-posting your Fire Arrow pics, a sane person is going to differ with you, not to mention being bugged by you rather than accepting what you say.

 

But, Fine, knock yourself out.  Don't mind me.

This is becoming borderline obsessive, if it hasn’t well and truly stepped over the line already!!

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21 minutes ago, GauchoGreg said:

Like I said, you have nothing to gain, and you certainly don't need to listen to anyone else if you don't want.  I truly have liked a lot of what you have posted, and I even appreciate your models, as someone who has been into both sailing and RC.  I just thought I would suggest you are never going to get what you want taking the tact you use.... far better to just DO rather than CLAIM.  When you say "I don't need credit-I already have all the credit I ever wanted", just to then keep repeating your claims, doing your UpTiP, posting your points in red, and re-posting your Fire Arrow pics, a sane person is going to differ with you, not to mention being bugged by you rather than accepting what you say.

 

But, Fine, knock yourself out.  Don't mind me.

You got it-I sure as hell won't.......

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Doug, Doug.  Can you just pick or create a thread where all your Fire Arrow stuff and other claims go and stop putting this stuff up in multiple threads.

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6 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Doug back to his best..! Love it..! 

 

20g399.jpg

We haven’t quite got all the colours yet, and we seem to have dispensed with the formulas........but he is posting in every fucking thread possible! 

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Not sure who wants an alternative, but this might be more pleasant to watch. Seems to fit the thread intent, but not sure

 

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21 minutes ago, GauchoGreg said:

^  Really too bad Gitana won't be in it.

Below article says that Gitanateam may be there, but that Josse top objective remains to prepare for the route du rhum. 

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/voile/voile-la-nice-ultimed-ouvrira-la-saison-des-geants-en-2018-5423685

And that Gabart and Macif may also be there. 

For Gitana I wonder whether the fact that they are not part of the "collectif ultime" enters the equation, but Josse being from Nice i guess he would like to be there. 

 

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6 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Below article says that Gitanateam may be there, but that Josse top objective remains to prepare for the route du rhum. 

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/voile/voile-la-nice-ultimed-ouvrira-la-saison-des-geants-en-2018-5423685

And that Gabart and Macif may also be there. 

For Gitana I wonder whether the fact that they are not part of the "collectif ultime" enters the equation, but Josse being from Nice i guess he would like to be there. 

 

I was wondering about that "collectif" thing..... embarrassed to say I forgot about Gabart/Macif.... it would be awesome to see all of them.... as much as possible. 

Haven't heard anything, yet, have we, about how long the fix will be for Gitana?

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Yes it is a crewed race. 

And the conditions could be either "full pétole" (no wind), or blasting mistral /tramontane as is usual in this part of the med. 

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Okay, so all this foiling trimaran stuff is amazing, but the videos are all pretty benign sea conditions. What happens when you get up on the foils while surfing down a wave and plow into the back of the next one, or do you avoid any hint of foiling in such conditions?

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On 12/2/2017 at 10:00 PM, Doug Lord said:

I did the basic Fire Arrow design in 2010-way before I saw the TNZ UptiP foils and added my own version of UptiP foils after seeing TNZ in 2013.Originally I was going to use T-foils or a version of "C" foils.

I actually did something way before anyone else did-that's just a fact. I published what I did almost immediately. I don't need credit-I already have all the credit I ever wanted thanks to some really first class people. I believe in this concept particularly for small tris and if someone asks a question I will answer it . The Fire Arrow Foil System can unlock the max performance of small tri's like nothing else available now but it has tremendous potential on every size trimaran. I'm absolutely "claiming I was innovative" because I made the concept work 2 years before anyone else did and that's pretty damn cool! I will never, ever back off on the history and value of the Fire Arrow Foil System! And God willing and the creek don't rise I'll get WOLF built-a 15' version of Fire Arrow.

That's funny......

 

Explain why you didn't file a patent for your 'revolutionary' system? Do you not realise several people can have the same idea at more or less the same time without interfering with each other?

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1 hour ago, Raptorsailor said:

Explain why you didn't file a patent for your 'revolutionary' system? Do you not realise several people can have the same idea at more or less the same time without interfering with each other?

I made the decision early on in 2010 to publish every detail of my development of the Fire Arrow so others could use anything they found worthwhile. See the link below to the thread...

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2 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

I made the decision early on in 2010 to publish every detail of my development of the Fire Arrow so others could use anything they found worthwhile. See the link below to the thread...

Well aren’t you a prince among men. The silent benefactor to the worlds best multihull designers.

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On 02/12/2017 at 12:07 AM, Doug Lord said:

A large test model that was the first trimaran in history to use an adjustable daggerboard foil and UptiP ama foils combined with a rudderT-foil-4 years ago.......

MPX Fire Arrow-First Full Flying Foiling on video-7-24-14 009 (2).JPG

I take it from this image that you're some kind of inventor of children's toys? This one looks pretty neat and I would be interested in buying one for my nephew for Christmas, can you please tell me which retailers in Australia stock your toys?

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2 hours ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

I take it from this image that you're some kind of inventor of children's toys? This one looks pretty neat and I would be interested in buying one for my nephew for Christmas, can you please tell me which retailers in Australia stock your toys?

Your nephew will be disappointed with it's performance.

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21 minutes ago, See Level said:

Your nephew will be disappointed with it's performance.

Even the Chinese declined to make cheap copies for Christmas presents. 

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They have pulled her out of the water to make some minor revisions following their initial trials, in preparation for some Atlantic crossings in 2018.  They comment on averaging over 40knts, with peak speeds of 45knts: 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.voile.banquepopulaire.fr%2Fnews%2Fchantier-dhiver-pour-le-maxi-banque-populaire-ix-0&edit-text=

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Banque Populaire flying on her unique foil system:

 

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Is that center-dagger foil really a good idea? 

Seems like it drags alot and make turbulence for the aft rudder..... 

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It's a great idea to improve roll and pitch stability. No problem with the rudder.......

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The boat is really impressive.  The video shows a lot more than what one poster obsesses about.  It is a shame about the attempts for that to dominate the conversation and understanding of such a big and expensive endeavor.  Things like deck sweeper fairings on the main sail along the cabin top and video highlights of the difficulties with traditional multihull bows stuffing waves while foiling.  Both remind me of the development we have gone through with the A-Class catamarans on a much smaller scale but in time frames that have occurred since the conception of Banque Populaire IX.  I would not be surprised if over time these big ocean going boats put more rocker up front so the lower portions of the bows stay dry.  It has made a big difference for us.  

I don't know what is going on the with the rudder elevator tip winglets that look much thicker than the rest of elevator.  They look like wedges.  Any thoughts?

The boat looks like it is designed to fly flat. Otherwise why go the trouble of retracting the windward rudder and windward foil which would be well clear when sailing at trimaran traditional heel angles?  But with its traditional trimaran design, the center hull often is in the water with a flat boat, even with the leeward hull fully foiling to design height.  This is a very different situation to what a previous poster has worked towards with full flight.

All boats are compromises, and there are likely too many good things with a traditional trimaran hull / rocker design in an around the world race to change it enough to get the center hull fully clear of the water.  At least at this stage.  Perhaps the drag of that lifting foil on the central daggerboard is another compromise to deal with the typically immersed surface of the fairly traditional center hull.  Perhaps that item is gone in 10 years as these kinds of boats mature and foil more and more.  I don't know.  There is no doubt to me that a boat like this one is a major step forward but that we are nowhere near the ultimate of what these can be.  How could we be?  

I will be curious to see how they get more shape in the mainsail down low over time and still allowing reefing.  I think it will happen.  Power down low is where it is at for all foilers with masts.

While the AC50s adopted a bow down attitude, we might see these big boats adopt a bow up attitude while foiling to minimize the drag from punching into waves.

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http://www.voile.banquepopulaire.fr/news/remise-leau-du-maxi-banque-populaire-ix-apres-son-chantier-dhiver

Jan 8, 2018

Banque Populaire @VoileBanquePop

This morning, the Maxi Banque Populaire IX found its element in Lorient, its home port. These three weeks of construction were planned in order to improve the various systems on board to make the boat more functional and efficient in high speed ocean crossings.

"The boat touched the water shortly before noon, we tackled in the wake, everything went very well. We are in the timing initially planned with a launch just after the end of year holidays of Team Banque Populaire. The weather was good, the boat found its place on the pontoons of the Keroman Base. We are happy to put the boat back in the water after a short winter break to resume testing.

Then, we will tackle our first big test run across the Atlantic between Lorient and Guadeloupe in early February. If ever the weather is favorable, we can then, in passing, try to break the record of the Discovery Road crewed from Cadiz (Spain) to San Salvador (Bahamas) *. The return voyage will take place in crew at the end of February. This transoceanic is a very good training to get to know the boat and prepare for the first race of the season, the Nice UltiMed ", explains the skipper Skipper Armel Le Cléac'h.

"If ever the weather is favorable, we can then, in passing, try to break the record of the Discovery Road crewed from Cadiz (Portugal) to San Salvador (Bahamas)"

Armel Le Cléac'h

* The current record is held by Yann Guichard and his crew, since November 6, 2013, aboard the trimaran Maxi Spindrift 2 (6 days, 14 hours, 29 minutes and 21 seconds).

 

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On 12/29/2017 at 8:53 PM, Lost in Translation said:

The boat is really impressive.  The video shows a lot more than what one poster obsesses about.  It is a shame about the attempts for that to dominate the conversation and understanding of such a big and expensive endeavor.  Things like deck sweeper fairings on the main sail along the cabin top and video highlights of the difficulties with traditional multihull bows stuffing waves while foiling.  Both remind me of the development we have gone through with the A-Class catamarans on a much smaller scale but in time frames that have occurred since the conception of Banque Populaire IX.  I would not be surprised if over time these big ocean going boats put more rocker up front so the lower portions of the bows stay dry.  It has made a big difference for us.  

I don't know what is going on the with the rudder elevator tip winglets that look much thicker than the rest of elevator.  They look like wedges.  Any thoughts?

The boat looks like it is designed to fly flat. Otherwise why go the trouble of retracting the windward rudder and windward foil which would be well clear when sailing at trimaran traditio